formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Jul 8, 2013 12:30:52 GMT -5
I do not give a flying fig how she was dressed. The TSA agent had no right to be hostile and make her feel like a slut. NOT his business. The blame lies with him, not partially with him, with him. Assigning any blame to her and her dress for HIS comment perpetuates the idea that a female is culpable in hostilities against her based on her choice of clothing. The problem with this sentiment is that I can walk up to you at any moment in time and say that "you looked at me and it made me feel like a slut". Or you ask me "how are my kids" and I will tell you that you made me feel like you are after my children and I am afraid for their lives. Should I hold you entirely responsible for all the feelings I might be having? The guy didn't call her a slut or tell her she was asking for it. He told her to cover up. Many business travelers are dirty old men and I haven't yet been to an airport that didn't have a bar. The guy could have been worried about her safety. I remember when I was traveling with a group of friends in Europe, one member of our group was looking at a group of gypsy children on the train with us who were counting the number of wallets they had 'collected'. He had an angry look on his face. When we asked him what he was thinking, he was thinking about how terrible it was that these innocent kids were being raised this way. We had been told that gypsy children are beaten if they don't bring home enough loot. But to any outside observer and to the children themselves, it would have looked like he was angry at the children.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Jul 8, 2013 12:33:04 GMT -5
Yes, because a 15 year old dressed in yoga pants and a cami is asking for it.
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toomuchreality
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Post by toomuchreality on Jul 8, 2013 12:34:57 GMT -5
I said this previously, and still feel the same:
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2013 12:36:12 GMT -5
same as the girl who dresses like a prostitute/tramp because she has no respect for herself This sort of stuff makes me sort of sad. I know you're a guy, but women can be really devastating to each other in this regard.I remember back in my small middle school, there was a girl who developed leagues ahead of the rest of us, stunning, very adult body when she was young. She didn't wear crazy things like mini skirts, just sleeveless form fitting tops and capris and sandals and stuff, rather than wearing totally baggy things and trying to hide her new development. We had an assembly, and the principal made a comment about how some girls were dressing inappropriately. I don't remember her exact phrase, but she used the word "disgusting" to describe it, and looked at the girl directly. I remember being really puzzled, and then seeing her turn red and cross her arms over her chest, while other kids looked at her too. My small, redheaded older sis has a similarly curvy and rock'n body. She does hide it under very baggy turtlenecks, and hunches badly to try and hide her chest. It makes me sad that desperately hiding her natural body is viewed as having respect for herself. I'm big and tall, with small boobs, so I can wear shirts that are almost painted on, and it seems it won't be viewed at "slutty." I've just been called a dyke occasionally by guys because of my natural dimensions instead. Honestly, if I had a kid and a TSA agent did something similarly unrelated to their job by looking at a driver's license and saying "you weigh XYZ, lose weight..." I'd go to bat for my kid also. I would hazard that if a guy was told to lose weight by a TSA agent, they'd tell the guy to shove it, and not okay it as someone expressing concern, even if the weight was a legitimate health risk. This is in the same category to me. Not the agent's business. aaaaaahhhhh "i cant define what pornography is, but i know it when i see it" i see women on a daily basis that dress sexily (is that a word?) but they dont dress to provoke a response....does that make sense? and yes....i have heard more mean or rude comments from women concerning how another woman dresses than i will ever hear from men you can wear anything you like....as long as the law doesnt consider it obscene but when you do go over that "common decency" line, a % of the population will make comments, and will ogle you and that includes men and women.....
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jul 8, 2013 12:36:57 GMT -5
He glared, he mumbled, and he said it in a hostile tone. Really, that has I'm concerned about your safety written all over it. I wonder how the other teens in her group were dressed. I would bet there were more girls dressed like her. I wonder if in their line through security they were told to cover up.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 8, 2013 12:41:10 GMT -5
He glared, he mumbled, and he said it in a hostile tone. Really, that has I'm concerned about your safety written all over it. I wonder how the other teens in her group were dressed. I would bet there were more girls dressed like her. I wonder if in their line through security they were told to cover up. Nah - their boobs were smaller.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jul 8, 2013 12:44:04 GMT -5
She said. We don't KNOW that "he glared". We did not hear his tone. I suspect she may have been exagerating - 15 year old girls tend to be drama queens
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2013 12:47:41 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2013 12:50:22 GMT -5
Why is her description of the incident being dismissed in 6 ways from Sunday? What is hard to believe about a man being obnoxious and telling a teen girl to cover up?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 8, 2013 12:51:35 GMT -5
Why is her description of the incident being dismissed in 6 ways from Sunday? What is hard to believe about a man being obnoxious and telling a teen girl to cover up? Why should her opinion be automatically believed and there is absolutely no way there is another side of the story? There is always another side to the story.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jul 8, 2013 12:53:30 GMT -5
Why is her description of the incident being dismissed in 6 ways from Sunday? What is hard to believe about a man being obnoxious and telling a teen girl to cover up? I did not dismiss it. I do think the agent was out of line and should be reprimanded. I also suspect Daddy's princess is exagerating and Daddy over reacted. Just mo.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2013 12:57:43 GMT -5
Again with the princess description. Where is that coming from? There is nothing hyperbolic about what they said the agent did. They did not demand his immediate firing etc. How does she get criticized here?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 8, 2013 12:59:18 GMT -5
Maybe he mumbled "It is cold in {{wherever her destination is.}} You should cover up." But she just heard the last part and jumped to conclusions.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jul 8, 2013 13:00:41 GMT -5
How did dad overreact? He asked to speak to the supervisor. He didn't go running through the airport and try to go beat the crap out of the guy. I guess the girl should have thrown a fit to the TSA agent. She is 15! She can't even legally drive. I don't get how she should not have gone to her parents with this.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Jul 8, 2013 13:01:03 GMT -5
Maybe he mumbled "It is cold in {{wherever her destination is.}} You should cover up." But she just heard the last part and jumped to conclusions. Or maybe he noted it was cold by looking at her chest..........
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 8, 2013 13:03:29 GMT -5
How did dad overreact? He asked to speak to the supervisor. He didn't go running through the airport and try to go beat the crap out of the guy. I guess the girl should have thrown a fit to the TSA agent. She is 15! She can't even legally drive. I don't get how she should not have gone to her parents with this. LOL - When I was 15, if a man had told me to cover up the LAST person I would have told was my father. I would have just gotten out of there, and then made faces with my friends about what a weirdo that guy was.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jul 8, 2013 13:09:18 GMT -5
Again with the princess description. Where is that coming from? There is nothing hyperbolic about what they said the agent did. They did not demand his immediate firing etc. How does she get criticized here? Several pages back I posted a quote about her texts...
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jul 8, 2013 13:15:17 GMT -5
You know based on what some of you have said, you must all think I'm Daddy's little princess. Nevermind that I never actually ask him to do anything for me. But I ask his opinion and value his thoughts. At 15, if some strange old guy had told me to cover up, you can bet your ass I would have told my dad. He might have done something, he might not of. When I got into a car accident at 20 I called my dad so he could call the cops for me. That probably makes me a princess to you all.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 8, 2013 13:20:31 GMT -5
Why didn't you just call the cops yourself?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2013 13:21:54 GMT -5
Obviously because she's a drama queen princess...
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jul 8, 2013 13:25:45 GMT -5
Why didn't you just call the cops yourself? There was no 911 in the area at the time and I didn't have their phone number. I was also really freaked because the car I hit took off. Technically my dad called the sheriff our county, but I was actually over the county line and so they called the sheriff in the county I was in and they each sent a deputy. ETA: and my dad showed up. And arranged for the car to be towed.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jul 8, 2013 13:26:41 GMT -5
Got it. Just another one of the pesky YM rules.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2013 13:31:40 GMT -5
I don't doubt that it was the outfit that she was wearing. On the other hand I doubt that a picture could accurately show how revealing it was. As one of the posters said, her daughter has several of those tops & they are see through. I "ASSUME" that must be true otherwise the TSA agents statement makes on sense to me. Either way we won't reach an agreement here. I "assume" that a 15 year old child was exposing herself. Others assume that it was a case of abuse of power. Oh well. *chuckle* Okay, oldtex. What if it turns out the TSA agent is Muslim and was projecting his views of "right"on the young lady? You still going to "assume" she's the one with the problem? mmhmm tell you what. I'll assume that he was Muslim if you assume that she got to the airport & totally undress & was walking around with her clothes under her arm. How's that?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 8, 2013 13:32:54 GMT -5
4-1-1
I thought kids weren't responsible enough and we had to cut the umbilical chord.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jul 8, 2013 13:37:53 GMT -5
4-1-1 I thought kids weren't responsible enough and we had to cut the umbilical chord. Why call 4-1-1 when you are upset to get a phone number when you can call someone who is more than willing to help you out and make the phone call? Why should I have made 2 phone calls when my dad could make the call for me and probably make more sense of the situation than anything. Actually, he was at his office at the time and it is across the street from the sheriff's office. Of course YM sin #38, it was my parents' car. Not in my name.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jul 8, 2013 13:40:40 GMT -5
*chuckle* Okay, oldtex. What if it turns out the TSA agent is Muslim and was projecting his views of "right"on the young lady? You still going to "assume" she's the one with the problem?
What's with the "Muslim" reference? When I was a child, my mother belonged to a Christian sect that dictated women wear long hair, long sleeves and dresses. Makeup and jewelry were "sins"... Even though I was only 6, I was not permitted to wear shorts or even slacks.
ETA, muttley I don't have any opinion as to whether you are a "Princess". Calling your dad after an accident does not sound unreasonably immature to me. This girl texted her dad furious because the agent had made her "feel like a slut".
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jul 8, 2013 13:52:05 GMT -5
This thread has gone so around the world and back I am not exactly sure what everyone is actually talking about exactly anymore. And just say one more time every poster here has said the TSA agent should have been written up.
While I do believe that people have the right to dress however they want, you don't have an expectation of privacy when in public, and I mean zero. So wear whatever you want but realize that people have the right to look, comment or even take pictures of you while you are in public. Just making a comment isn't attacking someone. it is just as much free speech as the person wearing the clothes or writing the articles and blogs and tritter feeds. Both can be overreactions and flat out rude, but they are also just speech, which last time I checked is still free.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2013 14:03:43 GMT -5
The TSA agent was mumbling and glaring. He was not full of warm fuzzy feelings. Not the good ones anyway. I've tried to back off from this thread, but this has really been bothering me. Are you certain that all "glares" look the same? Sometimes the students I teach think I am glaring because they are projecting their own feelings. They thought I would perhaps laugh or at least smile at something they did or said, and I didn't find it particularly amusing. So I just look at them. And they respond, "You don't have to get angry about it." I'm not angry. I don't fly a lot, but the few TSA agents I have encountered aren't there to make small talk. They definitely look you up and down; that is part of their job description. Perhaps he just frowned when he saw her age and her outfit. Also, the his mumbling at first means he didn't really mean to engage her on this issue. She pushed the issue because she wanted to know what he had mumbled. For all we know, he mumbled, "Do your parents know you dress like that?" People do mumble stuff to themselves that they don't particularly want to say aloud to the person. She insisted on knowing what he had said, and then he said the think about her age and covering up. That doesn't excuse his behavior. He should have said, "Not important. Please proceed to the boarding area." He didn't, however. He expressed his opinion loud enough for her to hear this time. This young woman was angry. I never read where she was intimidated except in some of our interpretations in this thread when discussing the TSA agent as a powerful figure. "Furious" was the word that primarily expressed how she felt. She expressed this fury, which I will admit centers on her feeling like a "slut" (her word, though, and not his), to her parents. And so an "investigation" was launched over an inaudible comment that a young woman insisted he repeat. It just seems that the incident is entirely out of proportion to the argument that Later and Milee and a few others want to advance. Your argument has merit, but this example doesn't work for me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2013 14:20:28 GMT -5
This thread has gone so around the world and back I am not exactly sure what everyone is actually talking about exactly anymore. And just say one more time every poster here has said the TSA agent should have been written up. While I do believe that people have the right to dress however they want, you don't have an expectation of privacy when in public, and I mean zero. So wear whatever you want but realize that people have the right to look, comment or even take pictures of you while you are in public. Just making a comment isn't attacking someone. it is just as much free speech as the person wearing the clothes or writing the articles and blogs and tritter feeds. Both can be overreactions and flat out rude, but they are also just speech, which last time I checked is still free.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jul 8, 2013 14:31:38 GMT -5
I think when we're talking about people in positions of authority, the 'free speech' argument goes out the window.
If someone cat-calls you on the street, you are free to walk away. No harm done.
If a police officer pulls you over and makes a sexual comment, is it also no big deal? Would you feel free to leave? How about if your boss does it?
When someone in a position of power makes a derogatory comment toward you - WHILE THEY ARE ON THE JOB - it is not quite the same as someone who posts a Twitter pic of your outfit with an unflattering caption.
Do you think this would've been newsworthy if some random guy walking through the airport had made the same comment? No one called the press when Thyme told that guy to wear pants.
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