Pants
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Post by Pants on Jul 8, 2013 15:43:59 GMT -5
Further, this entire episode is demonstrative of "slut-shaming," whereby others ridicule a woman's (in this case, probably developing rather than fully developed) sense of sexuality in a negative way. So what if she WAS showing off her boobs? Does that mean that she was showing them off for him, specifically? Because my guess is that she is more likely to be showing them off to the 20 year old working the lemonade stand.
I can look at a person who is dressed all punk and understand that they are not dressed "for" me. Why is it impossible to expect men to do the same?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2013 15:44:00 GMT -5
LOL. Just look discreetly and keep the mocking under your breath. Works for the rest of us.
is that before or after the bone jarring neck snap double take?
and the shaking of ones head.....mumbling incoherently, really?
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jul 8, 2013 15:44:32 GMT -5
Things I have learned from these 10 pages: Blaming the victim in harassment is ok, as long as they weren't dressed in whatever you deemed "appropriate" Women dress only for the amusement of others, and want the attention, even when they say they don't. Any underage girl is doubly in for it because a) she's a teen, of COURSE she's lying/a princess/drama queen/stupid b) she's female. If you disagree with the whole victim blaming mentality, you have it in for men/society or just don't understand that everything is not a big deal. Or you think there should never be any consequences for your actions.Maybe some of both. Attitudes like the ones I've seen here are the exact ones that kept me in massively oversized T-shirts and slouching from the age of about 12 forward. <<walks away, shaking head>> You forgot that words don't make you a victim. I particularly liked that one.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jul 8, 2013 15:46:29 GMT -5
Maybe if other people had stood up to lesser inappropriate behaviors than an egregious one like this would not have happened. I don't think it would make any difference. People want to feel safe even if it is really an illusion. These TSA agents have a duty to check every person to make sure they aren't going to blow up the plane. The rules even say they are supposed to check things like medicine and baby bottles. Clearly they won't learn anything by opening a Rx bottle,or in this case a saline bag, and looking inside it. How on Earth would they know what it should look like or if it is what the bottle says? I don't know that airport but does anyone know if it could have been a time issue? As in maybe they only had 2 TSA agents and security would have to hold everyone while they went to the private area to screen her in private? As much as people like to say they care I could see a riot happening if people missed planes because the TSA walked away with one person leaving the line to wait til they came back.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jul 8, 2013 15:47:25 GMT -5
If you don't like the way someone is dressed, don't look. Period. There is no need for comments. If you cannot restrain yourself from making comments or staring at people who are dressed in a way that deviates from your particular perception of appropriate, perhaps you should begin wearing blinders.It was his job to look. When you go through security, you'd better believe that they are going to look you over. And everyone agrees that his remark was out of line. I just think she and her father over-reacted. It still has not been explained to me how the dad overreacted. What was he suppose to do instead? "Sorry princess some dickwad thought you were slutty. Nevermind that he has legal authority to pat you down. No it's ok kiddo. Just let people authority say that to you. It isn't right, but you know that is the world we live in." He spoke to the guy's supervisor that seems like a pretty reasonable action to me. Sure he blogged about it because that is his job to blog. In the first place, he ahould have made an attempt to get the whole truth. Like where was that shirt when the alleged comment was made? And was she wearing a bra? And why was she wearing tight stretch pants in the airport? And in the second place, he should have told his daughter that if you choose to expose yourself in public, you have to be prepared for some u pleasantness.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jul 8, 2013 15:49:07 GMT -5
You forgot that words don't make you a victim. I particularly liked that one.
This.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jul 8, 2013 15:50:08 GMT -5
is that before or after the bone jarring neck snap double take? and the shaking of ones head.....mumbling incoherently, really? I'm sorry, were you talking to me? I'm shaking my head because the whole thing makes me sad. The majority of discussion has been how she was indeed dressed slutty, she must have been. Some have even said he was looking out for her. That is just depressing. I'm not a fan of the phrase "rape culture" at all, but this attitude makes me fear for all my kids, not just my DD. My poor sons are going to get beaten with way conflicting attitudes and won't know which way to turn. Will I teach DD to watch her environment and not drink any drink she's left unsupervised, of course. It's the world we live in but it doesn't mean I can't think it needs to change and say something about it.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jul 8, 2013 15:50:29 GMT -5
You forgot that words don't make you a victim. I particularly liked that one. This. You realize I was being sarcastic. You can absolutely become a victim based on words alone.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jul 8, 2013 15:50:36 GMT -5
If you don't like the way someone is dressed, don't look. Period. There is no need for comments. If you cannot restrain yourself from making comments or staring at people who are dressed in a way that deviates from your particular perception of appropriate, perhaps you should begin wearing blinders.It was his job to look. When you go through security, you'd better believe that they are going to look you over. And everyone agrees that his remark was out of line. I just think she and her father over-reacted. It still has not been explained to me how the dad overreacted. What was he suppose to do instead? "Sorry princess some dickwad thought you were slutty. Nevermind that he has legal authority to pat you down. No it's ok kiddo. Just let people in authority say that to you. It isn't right, but you know that is the world we live in." He spoke to the guy's supervisor that seems like a pretty reasonable action to me. Sure he blogged about it because that is his job to blog. He went in and talked to the TSA agent and his boss. I think most posters would agree that is fine. Then he went and published three articles about it. I found two blogs and three twitter whatever you cal them plus probably a bunch more I didn't see. In my mind that is totally over the top.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 8, 2013 15:50:37 GMT -5
I bet she flashed her ankle too! And why was she wearing tight stretch pants in the airport?
Because that's what most teen girls live in. Along with hoodies and flip flips. Now some women MY age and older shouldn't be wearing them, I'll give you that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2013 15:51:49 GMT -5
Further, this entire episode is demonstrative of "slut-shaming," whereby others ridicule a woman's (in this case, probably developing rather than fully developed) sense of sexuality in a negative way. So what if she WAS showing off her boobs? Does that mean that she was showing them off for him, specifically? Because my guess is that she is more likely to be showing them off to the 20 year old working the lemonade stand. I can look at a person who is dressed all punk and understand that they are not dressed "for" me. Why is it impossible to expect men to do the same? why? because though you may be dressing for HIM, you are showing it to all you are in public....people will stare, drool, laugh, cackle, and demean whether or not it is right is immaterial....it is human nature next time you see the 350 lb lady wearing the spandex suit in the mall, tell me differently men do it too....bunch of idiots out there.....not limited to one sex at all
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jul 8, 2013 15:52:03 GMT -5
You forgot that words don't make you a victim. I particularly liked that one. This. You realize I was being sarcastic. You can absolutely become a victim based on words alone. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't believe that words can make you a victem unless you allow it.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 8, 2013 15:54:44 GMT -5
I'm kind of glad they have a policy of checking someone very closely when they have a bunch of tubes and bags strapped to them, and large bandages covering significant patches of skin. It just seems like a loophole we want kept closed. Again - the problem with all of these stories is that "the media" only presents the victim's side of the story. There is never any investigation from the other side, for obvious reasons. To me, it seems like emotional blackmail for this woman to get on the news and whine about her tubes being checked, meanwhile, no one says "Gee, I wonder if you could make a bomb using common medical supplies, and how hard would it be to forge a note from one of the 97,000 oncologists that exist in the USA?"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2013 15:55:26 GMT -5
Is there a law that says women HAVE to wear bras? Why does it matter or not if she is wearing a bra...or leggings? It doesn't matter at all what she is or is NOT wearing, HE had no right in his job to make a comment about it.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 8, 2013 15:56:09 GMT -5
He has the right - he just has to face the consequences.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jul 8, 2013 15:57:31 GMT -5
Exactly Drama! I pretty much wore exactly what she did - skin tight skinny jeans and a tank top - the last several times I've flown. Didn't know I needed to cover up. Oh snap, I've flown without wearing a bra too, though I made sure my tank wasn't see-through so am I only half wrong then? I wear what's comfy to me for a flight, though a plus with clothes that tight they pretty much look at me and know I don't need a pat down.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2013 15:57:54 GMT -5
He has the right - he just has to face the consequences. You are right. I hope there are consequences because IMHO it oversteps the boundaries of his job.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jul 8, 2013 15:58:19 GMT -5
Is there a law that says women HAVE to wear bras? Why does it matter or not if she is wearing a bra...or leggings? It doesn't matter at all what she is or is NOT wearing, HE had no right in his job to make a comment about it. And everyone said he should get written up for that. I just honestly think when i read these things that there are three sides to these things. Hers, his and the truth.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jul 8, 2013 15:58:32 GMT -5
You realize I was being sarcastic. You can absolutely become a victim based on words alone. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't believe that words can make you a victem unless you allow it. "GG got promoted. You see how she dresses. I bet she was sleeping with the boss to get that promotion." "Look at that 16 year old, I heard she did the whole football team last year. Can you believe it? What a whore?" Yeah words can't make a you victim at all.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Jul 8, 2013 15:58:44 GMT -5
Further, this entire episode is demonstrative of "slut-shaming," whereby others ridicule a woman's (in this case, probably developing rather than fully developed) sense of sexuality in a negative way. So what if she WAS showing off her boobs? Does that mean that she was showing them off for him, specifically? Because my guess is that she is more likely to be showing them off to the 20 year old working the lemonade stand. I can look at a person who is dressed all punk and understand that they are not dressed "for" me. Why is it impossible to expect men to do the same? why? because though you may be dressing for HIM, you are showing it to all you are in public....people will stare, drool, laugh, cackle, and demean whether or not it is right is immaterial....it is human nature next time you see the 350 lb lady wearing the spandex suit in the mall, tell me differently men do it too....bunch of idiots out there.....not limited to one sex at all I'm sorry, WHY will people do that? And I believe that whether it is right or not is COMPLETELY material. It's human nature? Bullshit. It's a culture of misogyny.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 8, 2013 15:59:19 GMT -5
Before pregnancy and breastfeeding I used to just wear camis with the built in shelf (can't get away with that now). I was a slut and never knew it apparently.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2013 16:00:08 GMT -5
Exactly Drama! I pretty much wore exactly what she did - skin tight skinny jeans and a tank top - the last several times I've flown. Didn't know I needed to cover up. Oh snap, I've flown without wearing a bra too, though I made sure my tank wasn't see-through so am I only half wrong then? I wear what's comfy to me for a flight, though a plus with clothes that tight they pretty much look at me and know I don't need a pat down. I went to the grocery store yesterday without a bra. I had been in a car for 7 hours and it felt like it was strangling me! So I took it off and forgot to put it back when I went in the store. Ohwell, it isn't a big deal here since women usually are topless at the beach and no one makes nasty comments about it (well Europeans do not make nasty comments about it, but I do hear Americans complaining about the topless women.)
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 8, 2013 16:01:09 GMT -5
For the record - he never said she was a slut. But, with all the one-sidedness here, why bother sticking to facts?
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Jul 8, 2013 16:02:49 GMT -5
Thyme - what do you think he was implying by telling her to cover up?
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jul 8, 2013 16:03:27 GMT -5
Is there a law that says women HAVE to wear bras? Why does it matter or not if she is wearing a bra...or leggings? It doesn't matter at all what she is or is NOT wearing, HE had no right in his job to make a comment about it. And everyone here has said he was out of line. Repeatedly. As in over and over. He was unprofessional and inappropriate. Nope no law that I know of about bras. But a caring father might have some concerns about a daughter's choice of revealing clothing. She has the right to wear whatever she wants, but she has to accept that some might get a mixed message. And I am, in no way, excusing the agents alleged comments. If that really is what he said.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2013 16:05:12 GMT -5
Yes, people have said it was wrong over and over again...and in the same breath said that maybe she should think about what she was wearing if she didn't want those kind of comments.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 8, 2013 16:05:24 GMT -5
Thyme - what do you think he was implying by telling her to cover up? That someone might look at her and see something she doesn't want them to see - like nipples or cameltoe or side boob. I do believe that she was wearing the outfit in the picture, however, she would have been required to take off the little jacket, so I can't really tell what the shirt may have looked like, or if anything was showing.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 8, 2013 16:05:59 GMT -5
*chuckle* Okay, oldtex. What if it turns out the TSA agent is Muslim and was projecting his views of "right"on the young lady? You still going to "assume" she's the one with the problem? mmhmm tell you what. I'll assume that he was Muslim if you assume that she got to the airport & totally undress & was walking around with her clothes under her arm. How's that? S'okay by me, oldtex. My suggestion is completely plausible. The agent might even be from a very conservative Christian sect. Your suggestion, however, is pretty much implausible. She wouldn't have gotten into the airport like that. But, if that's your scenario, go with it.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jul 8, 2013 16:06:12 GMT -5
This guy could have said nothing to her but told her to go stand in another line and made her wait for a long time. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have gotten in trouble for it either.
For the record I have seen people asked to leave church, restaurants and even Shoprite because of how they were dressed. There are even laws on the boardwalks about what is required dress. Nothing surprises me anymore about how people dress in public except their lack of understanding on what is appropiate where.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2013 16:08:56 GMT -5
This guy could have said nothing to her but told her to go stand in another line and made her wait for a long time. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have gotten in trouble for it either. For the record I have seen people asked to leave church, restaurants and even Shoprite because of how they were dressed. There are even laws on the boardwalks about what is required dress. Nothing surprises me anymore about how people dress in public except their lack of understanding on what is appropiate where. I have no problem with it if they are in violation of a dress code. When I went to the Vatican, there was a dress code. Men and women were turned away for violating it. I have no problem with that. This girl was not violating a dress code.
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