bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
|
Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 2:13:50 GMT -5
BGA4444Message #1429 - 11/30/09 10:07 PMKnee jerk reactions like Cit to big to fail a year ago but ok to fail now! I am still just confused. That is all the government dems or repubs are capable of is pp on the highest flame. Not one problem solver in any of the houses! What a joke!
JnapMessage #1431 - 12/01/09 09:04 PMI have a lot of respect for Robert Reich and believe he is correct. Any company receiving TARP money directly or indirectly should not be paying outrageous bonuses until they have paid back the TARP funds. DJRICK thanks for pointing that out.
JnapMessage #1432 - 12/01/09 09:27 PMA bankruptcy judge should not be the place people go to get their mortgages modified. Most are not bankrupt but only unable to pay the mortgages payments, they agreed to, before housing prices collapsed. Yes, many are underwater, as are millions that bought stock, bonds, mutual funds and other investments before the economy went south. A primary factor should be whether a property and mortgage was obtained as a speculative venture or if it was for a personal, lived in, dwelling. The difference is significant because speculative investments, unless fraudulent, should not be protected from market forces or losses anymore than any other investment product. Maybe a new, temporary, position is needed that can arbitrate mortgage payments, lawfully, between the mortgage lender and the mortgagee is the answer. I really don't see why a judge would be necessary unless the entire mortgage obligation is being contested or the person is really filling for bankruptcy protection.
IvanDormaMessage #1434 - 12/03/09 03:41 AMdjrick, Great post.Very funny but oh so true.
BGA4444Message #1435 - 12/03/09 02:35 PMThe continuing job losses are going to sink us remember we need a couple hundred thousand jobs created a month just to stay even. The fact that so many unemployed are losing their benefits will start effecting the economy and cost more jobs. All the stimulus is going to the big companies who are already in bed with the government. The states and fed and local governments have already begun to increase taxes just to stop the hemorrhaging. This action will also slow the economy and cost jobs as well. At least they (the government) have decided jobs are important enough to talk about. I think they are all getting really job scared. The elections are coming and remember (I) Incumbents now stands for " I need a job".
BGA4444Message #1436 - 12/10/09 02:59 PMThe stock market is doing great. However, being on frontline sales of flooring here in Atlanta things are continuing to look horrible. We have made it another year which is a miracle. We have cut and cut and cut till really there is nothing left. Business all around us have failed. I have never seen so much vacant commercial space in all my days. All my sales reps say they are on track to make 25 to 40% less than last year. That is with 2008 also being a bad year. I am glad the market is up. But I wonder how much longer it can be sustained under the current conditions.
great depression1Message #1437 - 12/10/09 03:12 PMas long as bernake can keep looting the treasury to it into the dow markets......how much this morning already 10 billion
kman49Message #1438 - 12/10/09 03:20 PMAll my sales reps say they are on track to make 25 to 40% less than last year. My business is down same. The good news is that we can survive on this and moving forward I will run my business as if it were 30% slower. Profits will increase. The company can expand on it,s own finances. Best of luck to all
great depression1Message #1439 - 12/10/09 03:27 PMWhat ya gonna do when that meager profit margin gets ate up by obama's comming tax increases.........theres no republican majority to stop it from happening.
kman49Message #1440 - 12/10/09 03:34 PMWhat ya gonna do when that meager profit margin gets ate up by obama's comming tax increases I call that inflation. My prices go up to cover it. Republicans lower your taxes and take away you deductions....same thing. I still raise my price.
|
|
bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
|
Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 2:14:43 GMT -5
great depression1Message #1441 - 12/10/09 03:35 PM1. you layoff or fire more workers and sales reps 2. you raise prices 3.take it up the wazoo after 1 and 2 fail 4. bankruptcy
kman49Message #1442 - 12/10/09 03:40 PM1. you layoff or fire more workers and sales reps You,d be the first to go depression boy
ozone7Message #1443 - 12/10/09 03:51 PMAll my sales reps say they are on track to make 25 to 40% less than last year. My business is up 2% for the year. My net sales and transactions are the highest ever in one of the highest rates of unemployment in the nation. I have been in business about 4 years. My wife is a marketing wiz; I believe this is what has saved us. Of course, every business is different. Anything related to housing and construction is getting horribly pounded right now.
BGA4444Message #1444 - 12/11/09 02:18 PMSales great, market great, everything great-keep on believing! 10 million out of work with more and more losing unemployment benefits every week. I am starting to think the market is like the titanic with everyone saying not even God could sink that ship or stop this market!
neohguyMessage #1445 - 12/11/09 05:44 PMI though I would share philosophical blog that I visit frequently. It isn't conspiracy orientated and does a good job of providing links to support their essays. They have a very negative view concerning where the worlds economy is heading but are in no way gloom and doom. The people that have been posting on MT for awhile now have mostly softened their criticism of one another over the past year. I guess we (at least I) have figured out that there are different opinions and personalities on this board and we all have a rite to our opinions. This is good but the occasional brawl is fun too. theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/ [ theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/2009/12/december-11-2009-there-is-no-recovery.html] December 11 2009: There is no recovery Ilargi: Jim Rogers is right. There is no recovery in the American economy. Things have only gotten worse, and a lot too. Still, Rogers can·t help seeing the world through his own subjective eyes either, distorted by his age and his professional views. He makes money as an investor, and can·t imagine a world in which investors like him are not part of the landscape.
And that·s the big blind spot for most analysts, publications and websites that occupy themselves with finance and the economy. They're written by people who make a living because the economy is organized a certain way, and they see a situation in which that will mostly continue to be so, with some more or less minor tweaking. Rogers understands a lot of what·s coming, but he stops short of pondering himself as a victim. This may be completely natural and logical, but it does potentially cloud his vision. For him, the question is where to invest, not whether to invest at all.
But, again, he's right. There's no recovery. [www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=asSveli76vq0&pos=1] A Bloomberg piece this morning illustrates why. It says that China's Q3 output was up 19.2%, with exports down 1.3%, and imports up 26.7%.
China·s growth accelerated to 8.9 percent in the third quarter on the record lending and a $586 billion, two-year stimulus package, helping Asia to lead the recovery from the global economic slump. The essay continues and provides some thoughtfull reading....don't expect many green shoots.
randy47Message #1446 - 12/11/09 06:20 PMRight now as long as the markets continue to go up on the reports that are being stated by them the only loser will be Wall Street and the government and both deserve it!!! If they believe it then they can burn by them.
BGA4444Message #1447 - 12/11/09 09:05 PMNeohguy, the article is right on target. I also agree with you on the many personalities and opinions on MT. I really just have a blast just reading everyone's ideas and philosophy here. I know I have taken some comments way to personally- my bad. I know it's just others opinions and I have a great deal of respect for all of you for putting your opinions out there. Hey Randy47 you are correct in the end game Wall st. and the gov will take the biggest hit. But those two are connected at the hip with all of us. I am afraid the average American ultimately will pay the largest price. This price, I am sad to say, will be paid over generations.
Murphy MartinMessage #1449 - 12/12/09 10:45 AMWe? I'm not in a depression. No mistake.
BGA4444Message #1450 - 12/12/09 03:11 PMNor was everyone in 1929! Congratulations M & M.
schrizoMessage #1452 - 12/12/09 07:59 PMPerhaps you should look at it as being very difficult to change a system rather than bait and switch. Change is slow but it is happening. Some may remember when blacks and whites drank out of different fountains. Some remember when it was OK to make jokes about homosexuals. All things take time to change. What is more important is which way are we leaning?? It is the leaning that eventually moves systems.
|
|
bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
|
Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 2:15:35 GMT -5
randy47Message #1453 - 12/12/09 08:15 PMI still make jokes about homosexuals!!!
rjslrsMessage #1454 - 12/12/09 08:35 PMThe farm economy collapsed in the mid twenties, so by the time 1929 came along farmers had been in a depression for some time. The 1929 starting date is somewhat misleading when discussing the Great Depression.
BGA4444Message #1455 - 12/14/09 10:02 PMThe number of Americans falling off the unemployment benefits status should start approaching millions very soon. With all their benefits exhausted and no where to turn what will they do next? Ideas - will crime begin to increase? This is a very large amount of money no longer making to main st. Will the lost of these funds bring about more unemployment?
mdiwMessage #1460 - 12/15/09 03:43 AMDon't know what is going on in the rest of the country, but I live in a very small rural area, county seat population of 6,500 in S Indiana. In the past month we have had 3 ARMED robberies and last week a home invasion burglary in which one of the robbers was shot dead by the home owner. The other robber was caught over the weekend and is (allegedly a robber) the grandson of the homeowner that was being robbed. None of this is typical for this area. Sure, some shoplifting and check kiting, but not normally ANY kind of armed violence for profit.
kman49Message #1461 - 12/15/09 04:37 AMwe have had 3 ARMED robberies and last week a home invasion burglary in which one of the robbers was shot dead by the home owner. Looks like it is a little dangerous to be an armed burgler in S, Indiana!
mdiwMessage #1462 - 12/15/09 05:08 AMI believe Kmann that soon enough it will become dangerous to be a thief anywhere. This is an area still big on hunting so lots o armed people, including myself. The point is that the violence is beginning in this very rural area, desperate people do desperate things. The "official" unemployment rate in this area is 12%, the reality is much closer to 20%. Even in a state that has qualified for EVERY extension for unemployment benifits, people are falling off of the back end of the paychecks. No jobs to go to unless you are a nurse. So now the desperation sets in and the theft will begin. Problem being that those who are intended to be the victim of the theft are less likely to take it lightly and are going to defend what they own.....they may yet need to try to sell what they have to feed the children, if you can find someone else with any money to purchase it. A friend of mine owns a small one man machine shop, and he is starting to do business on a barter system, as so few people have the cash to pay him for his work.
Mike C4wMessage #1463 - 12/15/09 12:57 PM
Almost without any fanfare, stocks put in a small rally today -- and finished at new highs for the year.
blebsMessage #1464 - 12/15/09 01:08 PMThe Mayan Calendar may well be right about 2012 being the end of the world.
|
|
bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
|
Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 2:16:27 GMT -5
ozone7Message #1465 - 12/15/09 01:50 PMThe Mayan Calendar may well be right about 2012 being the end of the world. This makes as much sense as most of the ideas posted on this thread.
Crying TreeMessage #1466 - 12/15/09 03:04 PMSome states are in a depression now. Nevada, Michigan, Oregon and others. Some are doing good like Texas. Raising kids in this environment may open eyes to the real emotional and financial costs of being a parent. The banks do not want to give you much for cds. Gold is high, stocks are o.k. and housing has the 50% off sale but too many people are broke from over spending. Weather people, highway engineers and financial forecasters need better magic wands because they are always patching up their work. Looks like a very slow recovery. Those who bought and could not pay have made all of us pay for them. Fly now and never pay later. Buying a house in this environment is one the weirdest experiences I have ever experienced in life on this planet. Nobody trusts anybody. Everyone needs a rear view mirror attached to their head so they can see what is happening behind them. Radar to see ahead and a large sword with a crazy look in your eye to survive. All this talk about taking care of the old but what I am seeing is these 40 something's moving back with mom or dad so they take care of them. Interesting World of many Lies.
great depression1Message #1467 - 12/15/09 03:25 PMwe;ve been in a depression for the last year...........bailouts go figure if banks and wall st.......unheard of. without uncle tom obamas fed money in the dow markets and the constant changes in reformulating the equations for the dow,unemployment, cpi, just about everything........it will all collapse. Actually already has all the rest is just a cover up for the real numbers.
Mike C4wMessage #1468 - 12/15/09 03:28 PM
Almost without any fanfare, stocks put in a small rally today -- and finished at new highs for the year. The Mayans may have to wait for armageddon 
BGA4444Message #1469 - 12/15/09 05:02 PMWhatever happened to the "full employment act"?Seems like it was a act from about 1949. I remember learning something about it in economics in college. Anyone heard of it?
JnapMessage #1470 - 12/15/09 10:46 PMThe collapse of the economy is directly proportional to the irresponsible behavior of borrowers and lenders alike. The borrowers wanted to live beyond their means and the lenders helped them do so. This house of cards was destined to fail by design. What happened to saving for things you want as opposed to mortgaging your future? What happened to living modestly while gradually building financial security? What happen to investing and saving money, conservatively, protecting your assets instead of speculating? This bill is going to have to be paid before the economy fully recovers and we have many payments remaining. It is easy to blame everyone but the person in the mirror isn·t it?
schrizoMessage #1471 - 12/15/09 11:15 PMAll this talk about taking care of the old but what I am seeing is these 40 something's moving back with mom or dad so they take care of them.
I hear you crying tree. Its the middle aged group that needs mom and dads help. I am glad I don't have to look at that daily. Its hard enough having a job but not having work would really suck. Things are changing as knowledge doubles at breakneck speeds. That is why I don't rule America out as the leader even with unthinkable debt. We have been a privledged group and the rest of the world wants their piece. Can we all win?? Will that be the kind of equality that we want?
BGA4444Message #1472 - 12/16/09 02:45 PMHey 20- 30% of us don't even have a bank account you think they caused all this? Hell no but they are having to suffer because of federal bank deregulation.
Crying TreeMessage #1474 - 12/16/09 03:49 PMAlbany, Oregon shut down the paper mill this week laying off everyone. MicroSoft laid off 5,000 for a Merry Christmas. Some places only 3 out 10 people have jobs. I don't think people really have a grip unless it happens to them. Recovery is not happening and lay offs continue. Big Corporations should bring jobs back to the USA or be Un-American and support foreign economies. Keep laughing at me and eventually this country will be full of robbers, murders and people with 0 morals. Giving stimulus to big corporations who go bankrupt anyway is the sign of corruption & theft. I guess it is a good deal if your in on it. Billy the kid shot a corrupt sheriff who shot a honest businessman. No wonder he is a hero. All your saving will be for nothing if the odds hit 10-1 on unemployment. No recovery in the northwest despite the lies.
schrizoMessage #1475 - 12/16/09 04:32 PMThis bill is going to have to be paid before the economy fully recovers and we have many payments remaining. It is easy to blame everyone but the person in the mirror isn·t it? I am not sure the bill has to be paid. Who gets stuck if we don't pay?? What do we actually owe?? Dollars right? We don't owe gold or silver or the Grand Canyon right?? So we create a mass of dollars paying off our debt and we have lived up to our obligations. If they don't like it they can stop funding our debt. This is why I say it is the best time to borrow money now and buy some hard assets. Buy that house, that farm, those electric windmills with low interest rates now and pay your obligations back with cheap dollars. It is how the government will do it, why not you and I?? Worst case scenario is war when China comes to collect our hard assets instead of worthless dollars. Why do you think we put so many tax dollars into our military and produce so many yellow ribbons to stick on our car bumpers?? "What? me worry?"
BGA4444Message #1476 - 12/16/09 07:29 PMThe economy is doing so great they are going to leave rates between 0 and .25%. However, the economy is doing so badly they are going to leave rates between 0 and .25%
|
|
bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
|
Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 2:17:20 GMT -5
schrizoMessage #1477 - 12/17/09 03:30 AMAin't that the truth. It is true they can't raise rates without stopping any chance for a comeback. But they can't create inflation without the economy coming back. So, it seems it is true what they say. If this is the case then next year there will be new jobs. Why not believe them. They seem very confident about this. New jobs doing what??
reverendbarbMessage #1478 - 12/17/09 01:58 PMIt is easy to blame everyone but the person in the mirror isn·t it? It's especially easy when you're NOT a person that contributed to this mess!! Plenty of us lived within our means, didn't have credit card debt, didn't use our home as an ATM machine, went to work everyday doing the best job we were capable of, etc, etc etc......YOU BET WE ARE ANGRY!!! 
Falling Sky - NotMessage #1479 - 12/17/09 02:26 PM Buy that house, that farm, those electric windmills with low interest rates now and pay your obligations back with cheap dollars. It is how the government will do it, why not you and I?? Not bad advice - Just make sure you have certain income to pull it off! ( Personally the farm sounds good to me, I've always wanted a small garden, some chickens and some fruit trees, maybe throw in a bomb shelter and a well and it will help keep the worries of the future down! )
fools_goldMessage #1480 - 12/17/09 03:56 PMWell people, I may not put 100% stock in bible prophecy, but this from Ezekiel rings true if things come to fruition. "They shall cast their silver in the streets, and their gold shall be removed: their silver and their gold shall not be able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the LORD: they shall not satisfy their souls, neither fill their bowels: because it is the stumbling block of their iniquity". All you fat cats on Wall street, enjoy your windfalls now. Payback will be a bitch when you rely on the power of money and not your ability to survive the reality hard times. Take a long hard look at the survival skills of the people during the Great depression and how resourceful they were. Will you trade your blackberry, Armani suit and BMW for food?...nope! I'm not sure what our purpose is on this planet, but mass consumption and self indulgence I'm sure is not part the grand plan. If he who dies with the most toys wins, then I pity our children who inherit the pollution and our poor values as an "intelligent" race of people.
Mike C4wMessage #1481 - 12/17/09 04:13 PMBUT the BMW handles so nice!!!!! 
fools_goldMessage #1482 - 12/17/09 04:17 PMhope you keep your sense of humor while dumpster diving looking for food 
Mike C4wMessage #1483 - 12/17/09 04:22 PMI don't like Armani suits though... Burberry fits me much nicer... 
Mike C4wMessage #1484 - 12/17/09 04:26 PMI have no use for a Blackberry and have no idea how I would ever drive a dumpster!!!! Where do you put the key? 
fools_goldMessage #1485 - 12/17/09 04:26 PMthank you for proving my point about self indulgence. let me know when you find planet "B"
Mike C4wMessage #1486 - 12/17/09 04:28 PMDidn't that Exkiel guy once work for Bill Gates..... I think he was in R&D
Mike C4wMessage #1487 - 12/17/09 04:32 PMbut mass consumption and self indulgence I'm sure is not part the grand plan. O the grand plan,,,,, Why didn't you say so in the first place, I thought you were talking about the real world....
1939sMessage #1488 - 12/17/09 05:34 PMDidn't that Exkiel guy once work for Bill Gates..... I think he was in R&D And some people doubt that we live in a Godless America. You must be so chuffed at your own wit C4w ... on the other hand you might want to reconsider your position in ridiculing the bible. Now why do I doubt that you will Personal attack NOT ... it's an attack on your supposedly "fun" comments that you KNOW will anger many good people. God bless you anyhow ... as is said, "you may not believe in Him but that's okay ... because He believes in you".
|
|
bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
|
Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 2:18:12 GMT -5
1939sMessage #1489 - 12/17/09 05:41 PMBUT the BMW handles so nice!!!!! Think so huh. Some of them do I agree but try an Audi and you'll never look back ... or down again.
Mike C4wMessage #1490 - 12/17/09 07:22 PMI think you need that Armani suit for that Audi......
JnapMessage #1491 - 12/17/09 11:33 PMSchrizo, I wasn't talking about a monetary bill but was referencing the hardships that so many Americans are suffering and a reduction in the average standard of living. It is my opinion that the overheated economy of years 2004 through 2007, enabled by imprudent borrowing and lending, created the problems we have today. This economic aberration would never have happened if monetary policy had been maintained at a reasonably level. There were people - namely Greenspan - that should have and could have prevented the unprecedented expansion of debt. Sure it increased the GDP and employment but it did so by ignoring even rudimentary, prudent lending practices. It appeared that most people were happy with this policy: employment was up, businesses were happy and growing, and the construction industry was thriving. People were buying houses they previously could only dream of owning, confident that they would be able to afford them. Trouble was it was an illusion because it was based on much greater future earnings that didn·t happen. A two earner family using refinancing as a personal ATM ultimately ran out of money. It was great while it lasted but the consequences are much worse than most would believe. This is the bill to which I am referring.
schrizoMessage #1492 - 12/18/09 01:13 AMMan there are so many posts going I lost where we are. JNAP I understand what your saying. Remember when Greenspan warned of irrational exuberance?? Yes he oversaw monetary policy but he also warned. He seems an obvious political pawn. I suppose I am lucky in that I never experienced any of those high wages and big homes and second mortgages. My regret is not selling my home when it would fetch good money. Still, a roof over my head is reason to be grateful. Now my real decision is whether to borrow money to build my last home. I can easily borrow but taking the risk that deflation may over take inflation is my main concern. It seems most are assuming inflation which would benefit taking out a loan now before the fed turns.
neohguyMessage #1493 - 12/18/09 02:58 PMHi everybody. I'm not a gloom and doomer but I am skeptical about a sustained recovery in the near term. One thing nice about being somewhat pessimistic is that you are pleasantly surprised if everything turns out fine. The author of the following essay makes some valid points about his concerns for 2010. Sorry for the long post. theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/ [ theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/2009/12/december-17-2009-2010-trends-year-of.html] December 17 2009: (20)10 Trends: The Year of the Wake-up Call 1) Sovereign Debt One of the main themes lately, certainly in reports looking forward to 2010, is sovereign debt. That is not all that surprising, of course, given that if we take the US as an example, we see that in 2009 trillions of dollars of debt from the banking and housing industries have been transferred to the public sector, i.e. the taxpayer, the very party ultimately responsible for paying back that sovereign debt. One may wonder what the taxpayer would do if only (s)he knew. Until then, though, that's simply economics 101 for you. The American administration (and the House that -on paper- controls it), like many other governments around the world, sees the fact that it·s received 51% of the votes as a blanket permission to do with any amount of its voters· money as it sees fit. And this includes spending during a single 4 year term in between elections what will take the voters 10 or 20 years to pay off, unless things go better than they ever have before in history. This last example may be an exception, though still a truthful description of economic policies in the first year of the Obama administration, but it is undoubtedly true that in most if not all 4-year terms enough is spent for 5 or 6 years at the very least, with economic growth as the great provider and apologist. That·s why the debt has become so high. We are on the doorstep of an era where is fast becoming more expensive for governments of all levels and well as businesses across the globe to borrow money, a development that will greatly exacerbate the problems. Printing presses are powerless to turn this around. Sovereign debt is an issue in many countries today and going forward. Dubai, Greece, Ireland, Spain, Italy, Ukraine, Baltics, Argentina, Britain and Portugal are just a few of the most urgent cases. 2) Local Government Debt States, towns, provinces, municipalities, no matter how specific nations have organized themselves, an unprecedented number among these entities are sailing into stormy weather. We can all see what happens in California and New York, but they're just the tip of the iceberg. The initial responses across the board will be to raise taxes wherever possible, which will lead to a lot of angry faces, and to cut services to the least vocal -who invariably are also mostly the most needy-. Decent schools and health care facilities will begin to erode out of existence, while the longer term will bring deteriorating functionality in water and sewage systems as well as a diminishing state of repair of roads and other transport facilities. After that, likely after 2010, fire departments and police services will come under the knife. Some of these thing swill happen much sooner in some locales than in others, obviously.
neohguyMessage #1494 - 12/18/09 02:59 PM3) Bank Debt Today, Citi can only repay TARP (and is being allowed to do so) by selling debt and shares so cheaply that even the Treasury wants no part of the deal. Expect them to come knocking again, let·s say in Q2 2010 at the latest. The 5 largest US banks count on their Too Big To Fail status, and feel sure the government will bail them out again next time they·re in trouble. That is what we call moral hazard. Come to think of it, nobody uses that term anymore today, when it has become more appropriate than ever. The 8000 or so remaining US banks will start falling like dominoes, as they should have done over the past year if only the FDIC had done its job in a proper fashion. Already, the state of the banks that were closed recently has been much worse than those closed a year ago, and therefore much more costly to the public. If nothing else, this will turn into an increasingly embarrassing situation for Washington. In many other countries, banks received support of one kind or the other. If and when the economy gets worse, their losses will mount and their positions will become untenable. Some closures will be exceedingly painful. Bank holidays in certain countries look inevitable. 4) Business Debt Huge numbers of businesses around the world will find that when they have to roll over their debt or extend their credit lines, the cost of servicing it will rise dramatically, which by itself will for many be the sign to throw the towel, while for many others the lines will simply be cut off. No matter what stories you may hear or read, and no matter how much money is dumped into the banking system, we are in a credit crunch. 5) Consumer Debt Credit will keep contracting (re: credit cards), home prices will keep falling and unemployment numbers will continue to rise. That should be all you need to know. It·s called a credit crunch. 5) Consumer Debt Credit will keep contracting (re: credit cards), home prices will keep falling and unemployment numbers will continue to rise. That should be all you need to know. It·s called a credit crunch. 6) Tax Increases Government tax revenues, federal and below, have been dropping throughout 2009 and will continue on their downward path. There is one initial reaction: raise taxes. We will see a lot of anger and a lot of misery on account of this. We·ll also see for instance people losing their homes because they can't afford the property taxes. Wait for stories about incidents of crazy tax raises somewhere. Good hearted fun if you're not a victim
neohguyMessage #1495 - 12/18/09 03:00 PM7) Foreclosures Some 4 million in 2009. And more in 2010, but for a miracle. Resets of Alt-A and OptionARM·s are getting ready for their lift-off. Which means falling prices. Which means more foreclosures. Which means falling prices. Wich means more foreclosures. Ironically, as long as the government props up home prices, these prices will keep falling. Albeit more slowly. Prices that would constitute a market equilibrium in today's conditions are a long way down from here. 8) Unemployment Against the backdrop of a 50+% stock market rally, job numbers have continued to plummet, and there's no indication (no, Larry Summers doesn·t count) that things will turn around. The downfall has slowed, just like the one in housing prices, but it hasn't stopped or reversed. The numbers of unemployed youth and long-term (i.e. more than a year) jobless are both staggering and worrisome. 9) Stock Markets A 50% rally. Who in his right mind would expect that to keep rising when the main indicators are all worsening? Eventually, we·ll move back to a situation where only a few people will be invested in stocks, like in the days of old. To get there, it should be obvious that the masses invested now will have to absorb losses substantial enough to make the markets look highly unappetizing. And so it will come to pass. 10) Unrest The main newbie and the rising star in 2010. We've seen instances the past year, which the media have hilariously all attempted to label "terrorism", but watch for a million different forms of unrest in a million different places, and all over the planet, some of it decidedly ugly. A lot of people stand to lose a lot of what they have long been led to believe is rightfully theirs, and they're not all going to take it lying down. Not anymore. 2009 was the year of the gullible victim. 2010 will be the year of the wake-up call.
BGA4444Message #1496 - 12/18/09 03:45 PMGreat post neohguy! I am in the same situation as you as for as the outlook. I hope I am wrong and pleasantly surprised by the upcoming year. One reason why I post this thread almost daily, is the plight of the unemployed, the underemployed and those who have fallen off the scope or were never on it. They are in a "depression" already. My concern unless something changes in this country the rest of us will be there shortly. I live in Atlanta and the crime seems to be up ticking. Home invasions and random crime is on the rise. I have already circled the wagons in my family. There are many of us are living together. We all are employed paying off debt and in a pretty good position should thins improve are go the other way. The governments inability to realize that Americans just want a good job at a fair wage amazes me! Since the idiots in Washington don't get it. The time has come to make them look for a job. Remember the (I) by any politicians name stands for "I" need a job after these next elections!
JnapMessage #1498 - 12/18/09 05:27 PM The government definitely gets it. I mentioned, more than once, that I believe imprudent monetary policy was the cause of the economic collapse and there have been steps taken to correct that. The problem is that it is going to take time to regain a normal economy. The economy of 2004 -2008 was anything but normal as it was financed by unsustainable debt forcing an unwinding that is still underway. With previous recessions, notably 1982, the unemployment rate was equally bad and it took several years before it improved. This recession is probably the worse most people have ever seen and it will probably take even longer before we get back to a reasonable unemployment rate. In response to the change many think should occur, please explain what you believe, specifically, should be done that isn't being done now. I will add that I believe there will be another stimulus more directly aimed at employment but I would be interested in what you think should be done.
TerankoMessage #1499 - 12/18/09 05:38 PMV_L, I like your sense of optimism but unfortunately Congress and the Wall Street gang that control them are too powerful, rich and corrupt to surrender the power they have amassed. See you in the funny papers...
Crying TreeMessage #1500 - 12/18/09 05:58 PMThe drug business is booming in California. Beer sales are probably up. Horse betting is down and credit cards are the road to failure.. Get drunk, then get stoned, bet the horses and charge it to the card or grow pot, make beer, avoid gambling and cards. No jobs so you don't expect us to go through tough times straight. Is opportunity knocking or are skidding to a stop on a dead end road? 
|
|
bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
|
Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 2:19:05 GMT -5
neohguyMessage #1501 - 12/18/09 06:08 PMI used to scoff at some of you guys for predicting social unrest. Apparently Moody's is getting worried that some of what you mentioned is becoming a realistic possibility. www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/6819470/Moodys-warns-of-social-unrest-as-sovereign-debt-spirals.html Moody·s warns of 'social unrest· as sovereign debt spirals
In a sombre report on the outlook for next year, the credit rating agency raised the prospect that future tax rises and spending cuts could trigger social unrest in a range of countries from the developing to the developed world.
It said that in the coming years, evidence of social unrest and public tension may become just as important signs of whether a country will be able to adapt as traditional economic metrics. Signalling that a fiscal crisis remains a possibility for a leading economy, it said that 2010 would be a ·tumultuous year for sovereign debt issuers·. Strikingly, however, it added that even if countries reached agreement on the depth of the cuts necessary to their budgets, they could face difficulties in carrying out the cuts. The report, which comes amid growing worries about Britain·s credit rating, said: ·In those countries whose debt has increased significantly, and especially those whose debt has become unaffordable, the need to rein in deficits will test social cohesiveness. The test will be starker as growth disappoints and interest rates rise.·
It said the main obstacle for fiscal consolidation plans would be signs not necessarily of economic strength but of ·political and social tension·.
Greece, where the government has committed to drastic cuts in public expenditure, has suffered a series of riots over the past year which are thought to have been fuelled by economic pressures. Hope they're wrong.
BGA4444Message #1502 - 12/18/09 07:30 PMNo, JNAP the government does not get it! First, the main cause was the repeal of banking laws that were meant to protect us all. When Glass Stegall was repealed it allowed Banks to crawl in bed with and become securities companies. This act took the savings of Americans who had invested in banks for a reason-security and allowed them to gamble it in the stock market. So when the market crashed guess what to big to fail-bull crap. Except Lehman Brothers then and Cit now who was somehow to big to fail last year but aaahhhhh ok now. GM and Chrysler given billions-too big to fail but now ok to file bankruptcy-What changed NOTHING just a waste of our money. So yeah Washington has not a clue! Gee on jobs everybody knows that small business is the largest player. All this government and the FDIC has been doing is shutting down the small banks that help small business! I know a bank that was great in Woodstock Ga.. That bank is one of the victims and they were helping our company. But now we may have to shut down because no one else will help a struggling small business. Well maybe Goldman-slax. Yes you are right Washington has got a finger on the nations pulse alright. The middle finger telling small business to go @%#* itself.
BGA4444Message #1503 - 12/18/09 07:34 PMJnap, by the way, every since the government gave billions to keep credit flowing we have had one large commercial job after another cancel because financing was pulled. Great job greasing the credit pipe government really top notch job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
JnapMessage #1504 - 12/18/09 11:02 PMSorry BGA4444, but I don't think you get it. On one hand you say the banks should be allowed to fail but on the other you tell us that small business can't get credit. It is no surprise that credit is tight because banks are still trying to deal with the greatly reduced asset values they have on their books. Banking has a long way to recover and most banks are being very careful about who they lend to. Having said that, credit is flowing but very slowly and only to the very credit worthy. You mentioned shutting down the small banks but didn't mention that the banks that were shut down failed because they were no longer viable. These banks cost the FDIC billions and caused even more caution in lending activity. And by the way if these small banks were so well run why did they fail? Glass - Stegall forced separation of investment banking and commercial banking to prevent speculation that could cause a commercial bank to fail. The repeal of parts of that act (The FDIC was formed under the original act) occurred in 1999. It is obvious, in retrospect, that it probably shouldn·t have been repealed. The future of banking is going to be very conservative and that is not going to help companies, such as yours, to get loans. A happy medium has not yet been found that provides money for small business while protecting banks from future losses and it going to be some time before that level is achieved. I know you don·t like the Federal Government getting involved but it will probably have to guarantee certain loans to small business in order to get banks to lend
ramblinonMessage #1505 - 12/19/09 12:49 AMGreed is going to bury this country and no one is going to be able to save us from going down the toilet. People in this country don't care about nobody but themselves and that will never change. There is no compassion in this country anymore. Housing's in a crunch because people ask way too much for their homes. They just aren't worth the money. Jobs are gone because they move overseas. A lot of Americans are lazy, greedy and disrespectful. Our government doesn't care about us. We are at war because people lied about people having weapons of mass destruction and they didn't nothing was done to the man who lied and cheated in the first place. This country is crooked, especially politics. They get away with everything and nothing is ever done about it. This country will be gone one day and we can blame it all on greed. It gets worse and worse and it will NEVER get any better because people won't change for the better and that's just the way it is.
outaheresoonMessage #1506 - 12/20/09 03:27 PMYes you are right Washington has got a finger on the nations pulse alright. The middle finger telling small business to go @%#* itself. I have a cousin that owns a car dealership in Nebraska. They still have not gotten the cash for clunkers money that the government owes them.
decoy409Message #1507 - 12/20/09 05:53 PMSorry BGA4444, but I don't think you get it. On one hand you say the banks should be allowed to fail but on the other you tell us that small business can't get credit. It is no surprise that credit is tight because banks are still trying to deal with the greatly reduced asset values they have on their books. Some play this game from when they are in a diaper to the day they breathe their last breath of oxygen. All the while doing no more than helping to hamper the problems not resolve them. It has become clear that in their words hides truth. I can only draw one of two conclusions, 1.) they are truly that stupid and just plain do not get it, 2.)they do get it and help to protect it.
1939sMessage #1508 - 12/20/09 05:54 PMI think you need that Armani suit for that Audi...... Sorry to take so long to respond ... hospital called Armani? I think not. Saville Row ( www.h-huntsman.com/) or if it's a bad year Moss Bros A happy Christmas to you and all.
decoy409Message #1509 - 12/20/09 06:09 PM Your bed time tale has more holes in it than a tin can filled with holes from a Christmas gifted child with a new Daisy BB gun. It is no surprise that credit is tight because banks are still trying to deal with the greatly reduced asset values they have on their books. That is about the dumbest I have heard. WHO WORKS WITH WHO PUTTING THE NUMBERS ON THINGS! On there books,please. Banking has a long way to recover and most banks are being very careful about who they lend to. Having said that, credit is flowing but very slowly and only to the very credit worthy. Now you have me laughing at you! PEOPLE WITH 100% PERFECT CREDIT CAN NOT GET LOANS! AND YOU ARE SAYING THEY ARE NOT CREDIT WORTHY! The future of banking is going to be very conservative and that is not going to help companies, such as yours, to get loans. A happy medium has not yet been found that provides money for small business while protecting banks from future losses and it going to be some time before that level is achieved. BGA4444 does your credit suck? And why make up excuses for the bank? HOW LONG HAVE BANKS BEEN AROUND! DON'T MAKE EXCUSES FOR THE BANK! THE BANK HAS HAD OVER 100 YEARS IN THIS NATION ALONE WHICH IS MORE THAN AMPLE TIME TO HAVE SOLUTIONS! I know you don·t like the Federal Government getting involved but it will probably have to guarantee certain loans to small business in order to get banks to lend So instead of lubing things up just say it! YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE GOVERNMENT BE IN CONTROL OF ALL BANKS. But you failed to tell us that THEY ALREADY ARE AND THEY HAVE BEEN AND THAT BANKING BY THE WAY MOST KNOW IT TO BE IS ABOUT TO TAKE A NEW DIRECTION WITH 2,500-5,000 CLOSURES SET FOR 2010. It took some time but clearly it has shown a repeated pattern of who is who.
frank the impalerMessage #1510 - 12/20/09 08:37 PMpoppy cock 
neohguyMessage #1511 - 12/21/09 03:49 PMEconomic pressures will sometimes make people desperate. I'm very familiar with West Virginians (I was married to one) because tens of thousands of them migrated to NE Ohio in the 50's, 60's and seventies when mechanization eliminated a lot of the coal mining jobs. W.Va in recent years has had many white collar businesses relocate to their state. If the environmentalists are home grown then I expect things to get a little nasty before things are worked out. If they are recent arrivals or out of towners then I would not be surprised if the situation turns very ugly, especially in the under developed rural region. Blue collar W. Va along with the rest of coal Appalachia feels very betrayed by Obama (they were suspicious to begin with) after watching him promise more coal jobs during the election. These people can be the best friend you ever had, or your worst nightmare if they think you cheated them. www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34492139/ns/us_news-environment/ Violence next in mountaintop mining battle? More active protests lead to online threats, throat-slitting gesture
MORGANTOWN, W.Va. - It was the slap heard 'round the coalfields: Cordelia Ruth Tucker, wearing the fluorescent-striped shirt of a miner, strode past West Virginia state troopers and into a stream of marchers protesting mountaintop removal mining to deliver an audible smack.
The 54-year-old Rock Creek woman isn't talking as she awaits trial on a battery charge. Her neighbor, environmental activist Judy Bonds, says she was on the receiving end of the slap.
And Bonds · like many in a place where labor disputes have a violent history · fears more blows will follow as the fight escalates over mountaintop removal, the uniquely Appalachian form of strip mining that involves blowing tops off mountains and dumping the rubble in valleys. Virginia-based Massey Energy claims a single 3 1/2-hour occupation at Progress Coal Co. in Twilight cost the company $300,000. Two environmentalists pleaded no contest to battery after that incident for trying to push past a miner and climb a 20-story, earth-moving crane.Mountaintop removal foes say the industry and its allies are stoking fear and anger among miners and their friends by accusing environmentalists, Congress and the Obama administration of trying to kill coal through regulation and permitting.Massey equates anti-coal with anti-American. Pittsburgh-based Consol Energy blames the planned layoffs of 482 miners on a lawsuit by the Ohio Valley Environmental Coalition. The reason why I highlighted the last sentence is because it sounds like the mine owners and possibly electrical generators along the Ohio River may be stirring up the miners.
Crying TreeMessage #1512 - 12/21/09 04:37 PMThe new rib eye steak is called spam. The new money is called food stamps. The new president is a cross between a fast talking lawyer & a hot air balloon. What depression? My new tent only has a couple dozen leaks and who cares about property value?
|
|
bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
|
Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 2:19:57 GMT -5
space guruMessage #1513 - 12/21/09 05:06 PMI don't know that there are many forms of capitalism. In a capitalistic state one is free to trade and market their services and products. I can't think of any other system (capitalism) that can run by itself. You can embrace it, interfere with it or corrupt it and capitalism will run all on its own. We need to interfere every once in awhile because those that choose to corrupt it by hoarding the wealth beyond capitalistic boundaries will bring about the depression and recession we are struggling to get out of. Greed is capitalisms biggest nemesis. An extremely large middle class is capitalisms biggest and greatest asset. The more we spread and enrich the wealth the larger a middle class is produced as a result. The larger and richer this middle class is the better the economy because everyone is spending and the money circulates and enriches everyone. When the wealth is largely in the hands of a few or for the top 5% of the population the worst it is as an economy for the rest of the 95% of the population. Take Mexico for instance, they don't have much of a middle class and the rich are obscenely rich and powerful hence their population migrates and there is lawlessness and corruption. The Phillippines is in the same boat. Our government is necessary to help regulate what goes on on Wall Street and the banks. Their greed to take risks to enrich themselves beyond reasonable means can hurt an entire economic system. Obama and other leaders have helped redirect us in the right direction and they are trying to set in place necessary guidelines so that the US can continue its march forward and allow our children to take the reigns of a better run and more prosperous nation. Then we have politics which interferes, corrupts and embraces capitalism. Lobbyist bend our politicians to do good as well as horrible things to further their own means. When we can keep corruption out of capitalism? We thrive as a nation. Nixons' 2nd term, Ronald Reagans 1st term, the Bill Clinton years and now Obama's helped to laydown the groundwork for further expansion and growth with complete capitalistic embrace.
BGA4444Message #1514 - 12/21/09 05:12 PMJnap, you never told us exactly what you do for a living did you? Dying to know? Government employee? Banking or financial business? C'mon which one?
decoy409Message #1515 - 12/21/09 05:26 PMBGA4444 forget about it. Some are simply not going to say. Their words however say it for them.
great depression1Message #1516 - 12/21/09 05:55 PMI see bernake didnt waste any time spending the new debt pelosi enacted....wonder how long this trillion will last.
JnapMessage #1517 - 12/21/09 09:24 PMI have owned a small business for 15 years and have been in the computer networking and services industry for 45 years. I worked for a major company for 30 years and was laid off, with no warning, in May of 1995. I know firsthand what it takes to run a company, to take chances, to increase my knowledge base, to compete and to work long hours. One of the biggest challenges I had was finding affordable health insurance. Even though both I and my wife had no preexisting conditions, and enjoyed good health, it was very expensive. I will go further and say that the insurance industry has its boot on the throat of business, in general, and small enterprising businesses in particular. We all know that small business provides more than 70% of all jobs but when you add up the costs for workman·s compensation, health insurance, liability insurance, business transportation insurance, licensing and continuing education costs it is not easy to make a buck. I also know that as a computer expert and problem solver that problems do not solve themselves. Action must be taken or nothing happens. I believe in the changes the Obama administration is trying to implement because doing the same things, as the previous administration, and expecting a different result is insane. I am confident that we will recover from this recession and move on but the jobs of the future are not the jobs of the past. Those that educate themselves in current technology will find work and those that don·t will struggle. The same goes for small business; either you keep up or you will fail. We are seeing a shakeout now and the small businesses that survive will be positioned for the future. If the government wants to help with that process through tax breaks, grants, targeted infrastructure projects and new technology I welcome it. And if government wants to help people survive while the economy heals I welcome that too. I am an optimist because I survived the loss of a job I held for thirty years · a very devastating blow · and went on to richer and better things. Sometimes it requires a kick in the gut to get you motivated and maybe that is what Americans are now experiencing.
Crying TreeMessage #1518 - 12/21/09 09:43 PMJnap, you get an A plus for a real life answer. Long hours and hard work equal success. I also spent my life in the high tech field and spent long hours on the job and in schools all over the USA. Good Luck Big Guy!!!
decoy409Message #1519 - 12/21/09 09:51 PMJnap, you get an A plus for a real life answer. I am confident that we will recover from this recession and move on but the jobs of the future are not the jobs of the past. Like 2 peas in a pod,have you ever heard that one? A real life answer? That makes it obvious that you do not know about 'Real Life' and our still in diapers. Why do I say that? Simple,go tell that to the MILLIONS that are out of work. I would say your survival rate is about 50/50. And if they are not the jobs of the past join your better half there and go start telling all of the millions that. I leave the survival rate the same 50/50. Oh I get it! You 2 our going to RE-EDUCATE the millions. Very interesting concept you have there.
decoy409Message #1520 - 12/21/09 09:56 PM I do see,new jobs means training for the millions out of work. These people get these jobs first! Then the millions that are waiting for work you give them Welfare Checks and Food Stamps from your over taxed pay check and on top of that just take out more stimulus as needed. Thanks you two,I see you have it all figured out and that's great! Now I lost a needle in a barn full of hay how about you two go look for it and come back when you find it.
JnapMessage #1523 - 12/21/09 11:09 PMDecoy you are one of the most unknowing, illogical and irrational people anyone has tried to have a discussion with because you attempt to drag them down to your sublevel and beat them with experience.
rovoMessage #1524 - 12/21/09 11:18 PMDecoy409, Stop insulting people. If you have something to say about the markets, then do so. Otherwise, leave the other posters alone. Last warning before a ban. Do not insult or refer to other posters. If you don't like their message, then make a logical argument why your opinion is better. If you can't do that, then just shut up. rovo -- MSN Money Moderator
|
|
bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
|
Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 2:20:50 GMT -5
Crying TreeMessage #1525 - 12/21/09 11:51 PMI already made it to the promised land. Pea sized insults do not bother me. Needles in a haystack? I will find them or make one of my own. I find MSN Money Moderators interesting. I thought they were other posters. The one who would know a lot about a down turn is V_L_. He is from Michigan and must know a lot about a down turn and secrets to survive a financial crisis. Michigan has been in bad way long before this one. Look who is talking before listening too close.
BGA4444Message #1528 - 12/22/09 02:07 PMReported this a.m. within two years 40 states unemployment benefits will be exhausted. When this happens they can either cut benefits or raise the tax on businesses. Either way it is a lose lose.
Veteran_LenderMessage #1529 - 12/22/09 02:31 PMReported this a.m. within two years 40 states unemployment benefits will be exhausted. When this happens they can either cut benefits or raise the tax on businesses. Either way it is a lose lose. This is a really good point BGA... Republicans belly-ache over the 1% Small Business Tax in Michigan, but our Tax Rate is one of the lowest in America. Unbelievably great business nesting environment purposely trashed by service providers who don't want to pay ANY taxes (soon to be corrected by the healthcare legislation). Most other states really cannot invoke that 1% because they don't have enough "small" businesses, they have too many big boxes and chains. As push comes to shove, I see chains and big boxes getting slammed with (well-deserved) taxes and risk fees (for being too big in any plaza, so a fee to cover retrofit when they pull out). Everyone would do very well to sharpen up on basic business practices because it certainly looks like being a true "small" business may be the least of all taxed evils, coming to a local, county, state and national economy near us all.
great depression1Message #1530 - 12/22/09 03:09 PMReported this a.m. within two years 40 states unemployment benefits will be exhausted. When this happens they can either cut benefits or raise the tax on businesses. Either way it is a lose lose. tennessee has already raised the unemployment tax on businesses......My brothers business is already in dificulties and now add this onto a tax bill that averages 50 grand every 3 months alone........His simple answer was cut more staff. Thats just what he did,cut 3 full time positions to make up the losses.
reverendbarbMessage #1531 - 12/22/09 03:54 PMtax bill that averages 50 grand every 3 months alone........His simple answer was cut more staff. Thats just what he did,cut 3 full time positions to make up the losses. Wow - what a vicious cycle this mess makes!!
jerr59Message #1532 - 12/22/09 04:09 PMPeople better get their head out of their ass and wake up, We are not going to pull out of this mess just because gov. lackies are saying so, We are going deeper ever day and this Health Care Joke is going to be the straw that broke the camels back. You can't borrow youself out of a hole, how do you think we got into this mess??
txbizownrMessage #1533 - 12/22/09 05:00 PMraised the unemployment tax on businesses Yep, my sui went from .06% in '08 to 1.2% '09 this coming year its 6.8% !!!!!!! this puts burdens on the bottom line of all small business... we will make it work but there are many who cannot take a hit without employee consequences of one form or another Vicious cycle INDEED!!!
865samiamMessage #1534 - 12/22/09 05:28 PMIf you think the market is a ponzzi then why do you play? People who "invest" in something they know is a little off deserve no pity. Like all the people who made statements like: "I knew the performance was unrealistic, but where else was I going to get that kind of return?" with Madoff. I think the market is a great tool, but it will have down years maybe even decades. If you need money in the next couple years it has no place in the market anyway. The thing to respect is the trend line. It has always been up, but over years not months. All the negativity without an investment thesis is not helpful to anyone. If your negative attach a strategy to it. If your positive same thing. I don't care if it's stimulus or consumer recovery or whatever. I'm long industrials with a focus on improving fleet efficiency. Go ETN, CAT!! (CAT may be taking a break here for a while though.)
Falling Sky - NotMessage #1535 - 12/22/09 05:54 PMYep, my sui went from .06% in '08 to 1.2% '09 Ours went from .07 to 1.56% '09 The government thinks we are a never ending supply of money for them but at some point they will end up getting nothing from the ones that go out of business! The answer is not raising taxes but to stop spending money they don't have! They just can't stop spending and that's what will keep the economy down!
BGA4444Message #1536 - 12/23/09 04:22 PMWith the commerce dept. being off 21% on their current Nov. vs. Oct. sales projections for new homes. It really makes me think the government is absolutely clueless as to what is happening.
|
|
bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
|
Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 2:21:42 GMT -5
Crying TreeMessage #1537 - 12/27/09 03:39 AMWhile the new president is sunning himself in Hawaii the neighbor two houses down went under and moved out the day after Christmas. The Next door neighbor said had to move in January. The other neighbor on the other side in way behind in his rent. My son got laid off at MicroSoft after 10 years but saved 25% of his wages. My constant preaching about you will not ride the high wave forever and it is not what you earn but what you save is what you earn has paid off for him. Also no all eggs in one basket. 25% stocks, 25% valuable metals, 25% property and 25% cash will see you through. My daughter in law is losing her job after the first of the year as a California school teacher for ten years. The working class needs stimulus to create jobs and get the economy going again. Stimulus for business failures like AIG & GM does nothing. The country is going through change and if we are half as tough as our soldiers we will be O.K. We are not out of the woods yet and Democrats have been a big dissappointment so far.
kman49Message #1538 - 12/27/09 04:58 AMCrying tree, As self employed person. I am always working myself out of a job. I interview for 300 jobs a year. Your a good father. Great advise for you children. In this business environment we need to sell ourselves as a product. I look for five new jobs a week over my competitors. I wish I could not worry about finding another job for ten years. You never know bra, Your son may have a billion dollar concept he could resell to Microsoft and your daughter -in-law has education experience that is valuable. I would invest in your family before AIG. All the best Happy New Year!!!!
BGA4444Message #1539 - 12/28/09 04:56 PMI truly hope 2010 will be better for us all. I can only imagine how hard this time of year is if you have been out of work for awhile. I keep this thread up front for all of you who have suffered loss of job, retirement savings, homes, cars, and in some cases loved ones to this "depression". I hope and pray that this year will be better for you all!
kman49Message #1540 - 12/28/09 05:36 PMI truly hope 2010 will be better for us all I second that BGA4444, Better is the key word here. That may mean something different to each of us.
neohguyMessage #1542 - 12/29/09 12:14 PMThanks again for the info djrick. Sometimes I wonder if I'm delusional about the economy or is the rest of the financial world delusional. From a link that I think you introduced to us: newsfrom1930.blogspot.com/ Rail freight loadings high of 989,504 cars Aug. 30; low 702,085 Nov. 29 (vs. 1929 high 1,203,139, low 798,682). Latest US rail traffic report: www.aar.org/NewsAndEvents/PressReleases/2009/12_WTR/122309_RailTraffic.aspx For the first 50 weeks of 2009, U.S. railroads reported cumulative volume of 13,389,380 carloads, down 16.5 percent from 2008 and 18.1 percent from 2007; 9,589,775 trailers or containers, down 14.6 percent from 2008 and 17.9 percent from 2007, and total volume of an estimated 1.44 trillion ton-miles, down 15.5 percent from 2008 and 16.3 percent from 2007.
BGA4444Message #1543 - 12/29/09 02:04 PMLooks like Buffet may be wrong on this one. He may be thinking about a down the road surge on oil prices. Short term I think he will get hammered.
reverendbarbMessage #1545 - 12/29/09 06:59 PMdjrick: That article from Fairfield County News was interesting. But I don't understand why it is dated as Thursday, December 31, 2009 - as are the other article titles listed to the right of this article?
great depression1Message #1546 - 12/29/09 08:02 PMNo, he probably got the contract from the government to move dissenters to FEMA camps find me !!!!! disapear into the crowd and disipate.
jaylaruleMessage #1548 - 12/29/09 11:18 PMBGA444 posted on 1/13/2009 "Wall st. crashes,homes being foreclosed on,runaway unemployment, businesses closing daily,retirement nest eggs wiped out,construction at a standstill,homeless increasing, food banks wiped out,prices falling,governments collapsing,protestors in the streets begging for jobs,social unrest across all demographic lines and this is going on worldwide. I would like to sugar coat it for you,but really it took Washington two years to figure out we were in a recession. The truth is it is NOT getting better anytime soon. As a matter of fact it will get A LOT worse before it gets better. So now that you know the bad news and accepted it here is what you can do for you and your family. If you got relatives who are in bad shape move em in with you before it gets worse. Get ALL your money out of the stock market NOW. You can jump back in later when the turn happens and believe me you will know the bottom everyone will. Do not make any major purchases prices are falling you can buy it cheaper later. Prepare for the absolute worse things to happen there could be food shortages and even rioting in the streets of America. You must be prepared it is going to get way worse before it gets better. Lookout for yourself and your family remember the government does not have a clue how we got here or what will get us out" Wow, you really made some wonderful predictions over the past year, I can't wait to hear what you have for us in 2010. Luckily I took your advice, and did NOT buy any of the bank stocks, thanks god, I was about to buy BAC when it was at $3, I mean its at 15 now, 11 months later, but who cares about the 500% gain, and forget JPM and STT, they all collapsed. I mean they couldnt even pay back tarp. Thanks for giving me the confidence to stay on the sidelines with my money hidden under a mattress. My mother-in law and 2 cousins are living with me and my wife, because we feared they would lose everything, it certainly hasnt been comfortable, but it sure is practical. How much longer should i keep moving people in with me BGA4444? You have opened my eyes to the terrible state of our economy, at DOW 10,500. I am wondering, will it ever be okay to get into the stock market again? I mean, I know the move from DOW 6500 to where we are today is just a fallacy and everything is going to collapse but when do you think it will be better again? You wisdom is priceless, thanks for supporting all of us through the worst year in the stock market in the past 80 years. BGA4444, please make more predictions about the future. Tell us when the turn will be, I mean it certainly wasnt back in March, so when? Thanks again, for helping me to find my way and to take all my money out when I did.
|
|
bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
|
Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 2:22:35 GMT -5
BGA4444Message #1549 - 12/30/09 02:55 PMI have said repeatedly that the market is being driven by government spending and inflation. I have also said nothing will stop this market sell everything you got, mortgage your house, pull Jr's college fund and throw it into the market. Citi is still trading at below $4.00 a share. Get you some! I am telling you it will be $10.00 before you know it. it is not too late for you! Jump back in now! I believe the market will be 15000 by June! Hey if I am your only financial adviser you are in trouble. When I posted this, the market continued to decline for eight weeks. If you didn't have the stomach to get back in blame yourself not me. You should read all the threads here not just mine. "Frank the impaler" has been positive on the market for months.
jaylaruleMessage #1550 - 12/30/09 05:32 PMBGA4444, Obviously you are not my only financial advisor, I dont consider you an advisor. I am up 38% for the year! Doom and Gloom, Doom and Gloom, it not an all or nothing situation BGA4444. Anyhow, please include me in those who are positive about the market. I DID buy Citi at $2.80, sold it at $4.60, then bought it back in the secondary at $3.15. I don't look at your posts as advice, I see them as right wing propoganda, but please forgive me for this and don't take offense, I am a terribly ultra liberal democrat who drank lots upon lots of the obama coolaid. I am also a scientist, Ph.D. in psychology, which make me even more liberal. I am pretty sure you and I will not agree on anything. That is ok, at least we both have conviction!
Crying TreeMessage #1551 - 12/30/09 09:21 PMBGA4444 got it right. Make no mistake. The US Government does two things right. They do a good job collecting taxes and building good military equipment. Health care will be a mess and manipulating the stock market will be a disaster. Looks like that is where the stimulus money has gone as no one is getting any jobs around the country in the majority of cities. Keep printing money and dumping in the market will not have a happy ending without employment to cover the bottom. Employment benefits are running out on individuals every day and they become a non statistic in the big cut back to 10% unemployment.
jaylaruleMessage #1552 - 12/30/09 09:38 PMBears, Bears, Bears! "I believe all God's creatures have souls, except for bears, bears are godless killing machines." Stephen Colbert, 2005, Colbert Report
Crying TreeMessage #1553 - 12/30/09 09:43 PMDon't mess with their cubs or you will find out thet have more than just a big heart. Gurrrr. Kiss the BEAR. 
BGA4444Message #1554 - 12/31/09 04:15 PMjaylarule, congrats on your education it is the one thing no one can take away from you. You know when I posted this in late January the market was at 8000 by the first week in March it had dropped 15% to 6600. So had you listened to me and got out and got back in during the upswing you would have made a killing. It sounds like you have made one anyway. I can't understand the attack on what I said because it is still true for many Americans including people on MT. The market is up. That is great. But many people are still struggling and no matter how high the market goes their situation as well as mine continues to deteriorate. I will tell you I am a white male born in 1959 in the south. I have four grown children and five grandchildren. I am concerned that their opportunities will be as good as mine and yours have been. Not that this matters but I have beautiful mixed race grandson from my son and his Haitian girlfriend. I hope like Obama he can run for president one day. However, market aside the economy just sucks. Believe me I am out on the front lines in the flooring business in a pretty good town-Atlanta and business is awful. I keep hearing of a W recession and I am scared to death that they might be right. If that happens. If jobs don't appear soon what I wrote may still come to pass. I pray not. Happy and prosperous, and safe New Year to all those on MT, our brave soldiers wherever they are, and especially those who have suffered because of this mess we are still in. God bless us all I am afraid we really need it now.
Crying TreeMessage #1555 - 12/31/09 04:49 PMBGA4444, Hi there southern rebel! I work with all the states in the business I was in all my life. You guys in the south are very polite and always a pleasure to work with at any time. I remember the big rebel flags hanging in the tents in Vietnam. I also wish the soldiers well and feel they are the bravest on the planet. I do not like women on the battle field idea as I feel they deserve better. The excess printing of money seems to have no exit strategy. I bought into that last market at 7200 but I still so not like what is happening. Oregon is in a depression & people with kids are not doing well. Jobs are needed to keep this country afloat. I was from Southern Calif. but left there because it was just insane. Too much greed and lack of honesty are driving the kids of today. Happy New Year to All and a Good New Year in More Ways than just money!
BGA4444Message #1556 - 12/31/09 05:51 PMCrying Tree, thanks for the post. You are right southern folks are about politeness, yes ma'am and sir. We for the most part are southern gentleman and ladies. We can be led anywhere but can't be pushed one inch. I am afraid that many of us do not know the importance of higher education as our high school dropout rates continue to lead the nation. But I have faith in mankind that many of us would help his brother and sister if we could. I bet that if the top 500 companies went to their employees and said we all to a company need to hire Americans to get the economy rolling again all employees would agree to @ 10-20% pay cut. This would give the companies money to hire new employees. Somebody has got to come up with a idea soon or we are all going to be hurting from this thing
rjslrsMessage #1557 - 01/01/10 03:12 PMThe blood letting in the schools will begin this year in earnest, at least in Illinois. We have been operating on a budget set before the collapse started (for the most part). Next week the meetings start to establish who will be "RIFed" this spring. Early childhood programs will be likely candidates to be cut, their funding has not been reliable this year........it was scaled back, and even then, it hasn't materialized. The local university is making payroll on a month to month basis. The state is way behind on payments to them as well. Hope is all that we will have this year.
decoy409Message #1558 - 01/01/10 03:17 PMrjsirs , how can that be. 'O' man stated that he accomplished saving the schools and the teachers.
Crying TreeMessage #1559 - 01/01/10 08:36 PMOregon, Washington and California are cutting back on school employment in this big down turn. Seems like the kids are paying for the mistakes of the adults in their education. The kids have no say so screw them over along with those who make less money. The big guns get the bail out deal and they are ones who need it the less and do less with it. This last decade has had more corruption than the last 5 decades before them combined. Tighten down on white collar crime. Steal millions and get 5 years like Sullivan of WorldCom is not a good message to the people. Stealing as White Collar Criminals looks worth it to most. Looking for miracles in 2010 to turn us around seems to be the hope.
|
|
bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
|
Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 2:23:27 GMT -5
BGA4444Message #1564 - 01/04/10 05:10 PMSoon very soon the unemployed in America will become a leading indicator. It is very strange, that as the market dropped to 11,000 we were in much better shape than today with it approaching 11,000. I have not a clue how gold could be so high as the market balloons higher. There is no logic in what is going on. However, sell everything you have got and jump in. I believe the new high this year may be 20,000. I truly think the market is being driven by the printing of money. I further believe that as long as the money stays in Wall st. and not main st. inflation will not be a factor for the middle class down. Suddenly there is no fear remember what Buffet said! I think at this point I am very afraid!
BGA4444Message #1565 - 01/04/10 05:16 PMHey, dont think for one minute that the American people don't have the guns and will to take this country back from the traitors in Washington! The Georgia deer hunters could probably take Washington back by themselves! Washington better watch out while they send all the armed forces to fight in every Muslim country they may end up with the real fight in their own back yard!
FetonaMessage #1566 - 01/04/10 05:17 PMI have not a clue how gold could be so high as the market balloons higher. Really? I would say gold is so high because the market balloons higher without any supporting fundamentals. Also gold is so high because of the recent monetary expansion.
BGA4444Message #1567 - 01/04/10 05:32 PMI agree Fetona, but this correlated increase has to be driven by inflation. The inflation is not hitting main st. because none and I mean none of the money is going there. If jobs and more money suddenly made it to main st. we would see 1930's Germany type inflation. The market has gained 6 trillion dollars in value how much did we get?
neohguyMessage #1568 - 01/04/10 06:06 PMJan 3, 1931 newsfrom1930.blogspot.com/ Rep. McFadden, House Banking and Currency Committee chair., says recent reduction of New York Fed's rate rediscount rate to 2% will not help industry and employment, but instead stimulate "artificial business" and start new era of speculation in stocks. Fed. Reserve officials deny cut will lead to orgy of speculation, say easy money due to natural economic conditions. Things were a real bummer in Alaska! New census figures show Juneau, Alaska has nine single men to every single woman.
BGA4444Message #1569 - 01/04/10 08:06 PMNot if you are a woman!
Crying TreeMessage #1570 - 01/05/10 01:28 AMDon't be too quick BGA4444. Ever know a girl that has been to Alaska? I did. She said the odds were good but the goods were odd. She came home single and did not go back.
FetonaMessage #1571 - 01/05/10 05:04 AMDon't be too quick BGA4444. Ever know a girl that has been to Alaska? I did. She said the odds were good but the goods were odd. She came home single and did not go back. Hah!!! 
BGA4444Message #1572 - 01/05/10 04:50 PMHome sales plummet. What rebound? Gulp! C'mon Frank put a positive spin on this news!
|
|
bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
|
Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 2:24:19 GMT -5
JnapMessage #1573 - 01/05/10 06:08 PMWatch the talk about taking the country back by force. It is only an infinitely small group of unknowing people that suggest the government is responsible for the failures people have in their personal lives. Sorry pal but you can·t continue to blame everyone else for your lack of responsibility. Complain all you like but don·t ever suggest armed insurrection because you could be charged with a serious federal crime. Besides you can·t possible believe that the pea shooters you own could take on the US military and National guard. Americans have had problems before, found solutions, recovered, and thrived but since you have no knowledge of American history you have only your delusions to comfort you. Get an education that is relevant to the economic problems we have in this country and how they occurred and use that information to suggest constructive solutions. That would be a much better approach than constant whining and threatening criminal actions.
Crying TreeMessage #1574 - 01/05/10 07:05 PMJust need to wait it out. Seems like those who have a little something are the biggest threat to lose in this environment. Two bums sat behind me in a restaurant. Their were talking about how much each made bumming and what a bunch of idiots the American public are for giving them money. Both made over $300 that day and drove away in new cars.
BGA4444Message #1575 - 01/05/10 07:41 PMJnap, study history a little further than your own little life. All great countries throughout time have fallen from within. Usually from their own ignorance of this is so great it will never change- yeah right keep believing that. This country is bankrupt right now! Both financially and morally. If the interest rates get higher we wont even be able to cover the interest on the debt. We are owned by China and the oil producing countries if they ever call in the loans we are toast. But noooo you say leave it it is fine. Your children and mine will be forced to pay. What is going on right now is peanuts compared to the path we are on. I have said all along vote them out. Heck I do not even own a gun. But the American people do they own lots of them. The capital of the "free" world is full of politicians on the take who only care about themselves. I have asked repeatedly for someone to name one politician who is honest and cares about this country. So far the only response I got was Ted Kennedy and Ron Paul. Ted's actions spoke for his character and is now dead. Ron Paul is ineffective. So who you want to put your hat own? Name one Jnap for the hope of the free world!
Veteran_LenderMessage #1576 - 01/05/10 07:55 PMThe capital of the "free" world is full of politicians on the take who only care about themselves. Or have no clue has to how to do what's truly needed.
Defining QualityMessage #1577 - 01/05/10 09:19 PMIf it Walks like a Depression - And Quacks like a Depression - and looks like a Depression - What is it! A Jobless Recovery - of course! 16,000,000 unemployed in a Service Sector Economy that makes nothing and imports everything which one day will not even work for the Rich. Corporations and Government Employees destroying homes one family at a time. No Jobs - No Income - No consumers - No corporations - Even fewer Jobs - No Tax Revenue - No Schools - No MediCare - No Social security - No Unemployment Benefits - No Government. The Empire is Failing. Borrowing from Peter (the Taxpayer) - to pay Paul (the Government) which gives the money to private citizens and corporations is not an economic model that can work for a sustained period of time. $Trillions upon $Trillions of unfunded promises and no one with a job to pay taxes. Nothing but "Funny Money" - cash borrowed out of thin air - to meet future obligations. That economic model has been going on over 50 years. $Trillions were stolen. The end is in sight!
JnapMessage #1578 - 01/05/10 09:23 PMOh, I get it! All of you negative posters on this message board have PhD·s in economics, are experts in banking, investing and finance. The US is the largest and most complex economy on earth but the doom and gloomers know exactly how to fix the economy using just their own life experiences. Just for your edification we are a capitalist society and can not exist without banking, investment, and finance. On one hand the banks are criticized for their unsound lending practices, which helped create our current problems, and on the other are criticized for now being too conservative. The banking system is still suffering from greatly reduced assets, on their books, but for the most part is stabile. That is all the Federal Government did; provide stability and prevent a bad situation from getting much, much worse. Every single measurement you wish to make shows that the economy is improving and the manufacturing index, this month, is showing a surprising gain. Housing construction was down in December and November but was up, month on month for most of 2009. While encouraging economic activity is clear we are not going to go back to the practices of 2004 · 2007; which was driven by speculation and unsustainable debt. The economy is not going to come roaring back because of the conservative practices now in place and that should be regarded as a positive thing. A slow but steady improvement is what we need and that is what we are getting. As for the those that think the Government isn·t doing the right things perhaps you could enlighten us with your ideas as to what it should be doing.
Veteran_LenderMessage #1579 - 01/05/10 09:30 PMIt is only an infinitely small group of unknowing people that suggest the government is responsible for the failures people have in their personal lives. According to figures published this morning, about 55% of working people hate their jobs and certainly the 40 million unemployed folks hate their situations. Likely the "infinitely small group" you refer to includes you and your infinitely small perspective. Folks are ANGRY and well-aware that: politicians, lawyers and executives play equal roles in our current circumstances. The patience to allow it to continue grows thinner daily.
JnapMessage #1580 - 01/05/10 09:37 PMThe end is not near. The Government is well able to pay the nation debt and will have no problem for many years. Those that bought the Government securities may have a problem but they have put themselves in that position. China can not sell their holding because it will depress their value. Holders of these securities are most affaid of inflation because it will reduce their value. This is one reason that China has not revalued it's currency because it too will reduce the value of their American holdings. They have as big a problem as we do. But it is not just an American problem, the whole world is in similiar shape. Japan is in the worst shape of anyone. There is no doubt that inflation will happen one day and it is not going to be pleasant. It will take care of the debt problem but will cause many other problems at the same time. We will cross those bridges when they come but in the meantime there just isn't a better solution than what we are doing currently. Of course you may have a better idea so let's hear it.
Veteran_LenderMessage #1581 - 01/05/10 09:48 PMSorry friend... inflation has been here for a while, we're not recognizing it large scale due to re-packaging. A pound of frozen mixed veggies was sixty nine cents two years ago, today ten ounces are a buck sixty nine. All of your desirable item services are on the rise-- cell, internet, cable TV, gas and insurances will follow. It will be interesting as April 16th approaches-- significant overhead, the reality of a shortfall in revenues will be upon us. The markets will have no chance unless there is tremendous job creation RIGHT NOW.
neohguyMessage #1582 - 01/05/10 09:52 PM1. Dismantle the tbtf banks and sell there assets at market value. 2. Audit the fed. No secrecy 3. Impose tariffs on products coming from countries that pay slave labor 4. Rebuild our mfg base 5. Eliminate all corporate contributions for elected officials 6. Become energy independent and quit playing world cop
JnapMessage #1583 - 01/05/10 09:57 PMSo they are angry, what do they think the Government should do, find them a job they like. This is still a free country and if you don·t like your job get a different one. If none are available buck up and be grateful you are employed. The whining is hard to believe. Oh please Government find me a job I like·please·please. The inconsistencies are amazing in that many say they want the Government out of the free economy but at the same time say why hasn·t the Government fixed the economy. Pick one because you can·t have it both ways. I like what the Government is doing because I haven·t heard one suggestion or idea that makes sense. I really haven·t heard any realistic ideas at all. One last thought if you are angry with your representative vote for someone else when the elections occur this November and I will vote for the person I like. But that will not change who is really responsible for your behalf because that responsibility still remains with you.
neohguyMessage #1584 - 01/05/10 09:58 PM7. Impose an immediate $2.00/gallon federal tax for all non commercial vehicle gas 8. Tell everybody that no.7 was decoys idea
|
|
bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
|
Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 2:25:12 GMT -5
Kitchen_sinkMessage #1585 - 01/05/10 10:07 PM8. Tell everybody that no.7 was decoys idea LOL - good one!
decoy409Message #1586 - 01/05/10 10:11 PMnull
Defining QualityMessage #1587 - 01/05/10 10:11 PMAs for the those that think the Government isn·t doing the right things perhaps you could enlighten us with your ideas as to what it should be doing. Turn back the clock 50 years to Eliminate Greed by Taxing the Wealthy! www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates.php 91% over $400,000 per year.
neohguyMessage #1588 - 01/05/10 10:13 PMThe end is not near. The Government is well able to pay the nation debt and will have no problem for many years. Those that bought the Government securities may have a problem but they have put themselves in that position. China can not sell their holding because it will depress their value. Actually two bone headed moves don't equal a good move. US selling IOU's and China being forced to buy them. The US importing stuff, for no good reason, and China trying to make an unsustainable economy selling to a country that doesn't have a snowball chance in hell of being able to pay them.
BGA4444Message #1589 - 01/05/10 10:14 PMI like Neo's ideas. I also see Jnap did not respond must be banker!
decoy409Message #1590 - 01/05/10 10:14 PMOh my www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates.php that's a nice find and a swell idea! Got the Time Machine warmed up.
BGA4444Message #1591 - 01/05/10 10:17 PMOnly one answer socialized medicine for china with GOP trademark "Die Quickly".
Crying TreeMessage #1592 - 01/05/10 10:23 PMInflation is in disguise. Open a box of cereal and it is half empty. Wait till the oil companies want their big bonus again. Probably around summer when you want to get away from it all. The middle class pays most but are disappearing. The poor & the rich reap most benefits. Powerful Countries over history have fell from with in usually from poor morals. The latest scandal. UBS laundering money in Swiss banks. The whistle blower got jail time after saving the IRS billions. Too much prescription drugs being robbed from parents and rotting out the youths brains. The new health care should bring a drug bonanza and you will live in a country of dishonest nuts if you don't already do it today.
JnapMessage #1593 - 01/05/10 10:33 PM1. Dismantle the tbtf banks and sell there assets at market value. 2. Audit the fed. No secrecy 3. Impose tariffs on products coming from countries that pay slave labor 4. Rebuild our mfg base 5. Eliminate all corporate contributions for elected officials 6. Become energy independent and quit playing world cop There are some good ideas here. I like the idea of not being world cop and think it is well beyond time that we brought American troops home. WWII ended over sixty years ago so why are we still deployed in Japan. Germany and many other countries around the world? The Too BIG TO Fail banks don't need dismantled they need regulation and transparency. I also like the idea of imposing tariffs except it often leads to trade wars which hurt everyone, including the country that imposes them. But we should never allow an entire industry to be taken over by foreign imports because, as I have said before, we not only lose the industry and the jobs but also all of the technological improvements to that industry, further hindering our ability to compete. And unless we are competitive we will never rebuild our lost industries. As for Auditing the FED, it is a independent entity and should not be subject to politics. According to the board of governors: "It is not 'owned' by anyone and is 'not a private, profit-making institution'. Instead, it is an independent entity within the government, having both public purposes and private aspects."[ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_System#cite_note-6] [7] In particular, neither the Federal Reserve System nor its component banks are owned by the United States Government. Concerning energy independence, the United States uses 600 million barrels of oil a month; 6.2 billion barrels a year. There is just no way we can drill ourselves to energy independence. Some say we could switch to natural gas, of which we have great reserves, but that is not going to happen in our lifetime because the infrastructure is just not there. Here again we must depend on the free energy market but it too is a mess. When oil prices are up Americans try to use or develop other sources which causes oil prices to fall causing alternative sources to become uncompetitive. Look what has happened with ethanol. I think the solution is more nuclear and renewable sources coupled with Government utilization of Natural gas, where possible. The Government doesn't need the infrastructure and should be able to utilize Natural gas much easier than the public. Thanks for the input their are some good ideas in your post.
BGA4444Message #1594 - 01/05/10 10:47 PMJnap is human congratulations I was starting to worry! lol Wow, if we can agree on a few good ideas why can't Washington?
Crying TreeMessage #1595 - 01/05/10 11:08 PMI like all jnap's  ideas but if we elected him president would he get corrupted through million dollar brides like most the rest and crooked business as usual. Obama fooled me so I can be had!
JnapMessage #1596 - 01/05/10 11:23 PMThere is an aspect to free enterprise and trade that is often overlooked. As a small business owner I often had to bid on jobs I wanted. The materials for these jobs came from various suppliers and I had to find the lowest cost items to make my bid competitive. All too often, the materials I purchased was foreign made because it was much cheaper but still met specifications. Many times it exceeded specifications so I used it in my bids. It is easy to say buy American but if I did I wouldn't have gotten the job. In fact I lost several by bidding American made products. This is the nature of completive bidding; come up with the lowest cost or lose out. Expand that to the world economy and you will find that Americans have not been competitive. Some blame the high cost of labor but I discount that because automation should have reduced the amount of labor needed. Others say environmental laws have forced companies out of business because of prohibited costs of compliance. Maybe, but allowing the environment to be polluted is unacceptable on every level and if foreign companies don't comply with our laws we should not permit importation of their products. It is a tough problem but Americans have to compete and perhaps we must, temporarily, impose tariffs but ultimately we have to compete with the rest of the world. The single most factor on our ability to compete is education. Americans MUST stop accepting mediocrity and demand excellence in our education system. We spend more per student than any country on earth but our students rank lower than those from many developing countries. This is what we must fix first and foremost or accept a lower standard of living: no excuses, no arguments, no if ands or buts. I have watched as as it became evident that our students were becoming less and less educated. More, there appears to be no stigma attached to being ignorant. There is no stigma attached to being unable to read or write. There is no stigma attached to being mathematically incompetent. When I was a high school student the space race was on and there was great pride in educational excellence. The smarter someone was the more they were admired. I think this should be the hallmark and goal of the Obama administration; restore American students to the top of world educational standards and measurement. If we do that all other problems will be solved. If you want to improve America start here because if we don't we will not survive.
|
|
bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
|
Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 2:26:04 GMT -5
great depression1Message #1597 - 01/05/10 11:58 PMiF i WAS PRESIDENT......**** all make less and pay less. Id share all my bribes with my family and friends first........Then I would send all the illegals back,then initiate field work for americans only. Then I think I would repeal all the laws back to just before the civil war then adjourn congress forever......I think then america will be safe and economically prosper again.
Crying TreeMessage #1598 - 01/06/10 01:58 AMJnap, Another great idea and foundation for success. How about two candidates for president. The winner gets two years to live up to their promises and if he or she doesn't live up to them, a second vote, then the other candidate takes over the last two years. Something needs to change for financial success & happiness for all in the USA.  
BGA4444Message #1599 - 01/06/10 02:55 PMI knew there was a reason I didn't write in GD1 for president!LOL Wow, only 84,000 jobs lost in December now that is cause for celebration! Hey Frank, we are are gonna need to make a bunchhhhh of money in the market cause the tax rate is about to go thru the ceiling. Why you ask because half of Americans who make money will have to share their income with all those retirees, the welfare bunch, the unemployed and those millions about to be on food stamps. Market though-a rocket going strait up!
neohguyMessage #1600 - 01/06/10 05:29 PMdeleted by me
neohguyMessage #1601 - 01/06/10 05:30 PMThat didn't work. Click on this link: www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/volcker/why%20not%20bull%20market.jpg
BGA4444Message #1602 - 01/06/10 08:13 PMHey Frank somebody forgot to tell the commercial real-estate guys that the recession was over! They are absolutely getting hammered! Wow if anybody knows how bad it is it is the commercial guys. You guys didn't get Frank's memo the recession is over. I am sorry he forgot to tell you guys!
reverendbarbMessage #1603 - 01/06/10 08:51 PMneohguy - interesting chart. But I'm surprised that in the 2009 column, which is made up of folks with a median age of 52, that their sentiment is 88% bullish toward investments. Are these people paying ANY attention to what's going on around them?!
neohguyMessage #1604 - 01/06/10 09:26 PMneohguy - interesting chart. But I'm surprised that in the 2009 column, which is made up of folks with a median age of 52, that their sentiment is 88% bullish toward investments. Are these people paying ANY attention to what's going on around them?! The 88% is investor sentiment. I may be wrong but I think that includes everybody regardless of age. 88% bullish scares a lot of investors because they fear that the market might fall violently because of a lack of short positions that would cushion a big fall by buying and returning stocks when taking profits. As far as old codgers go, I am seeing more and more late 50's/early 60's thinking they can hit a home run before retirement with their 401k. If the market does take a sudden turn downward, 401k's will be hit hard since reallocation can only occur after the bell. Many plans have instituted tougher reallocation rules that restrict how often you can reallocate in recent years.
Crying TreeMessage #1606 - 01/06/10 10:25 PMSchools, public & private need drug testing for students. Prescription drugs with opiates for pain killers are getting into the kids and today they are leading the financial world & politics with half rotten brains. Half of them don't even know at least 30% of the population are going down the drain because they are high on something and they have a never ending supply from Doctor Wonderful.
|
|
bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
|
Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 2:26:57 GMT -5
decoy409Message #1609 - 01/06/10 11:32 PM"Lucy!!!! Somebodies got some splangin to do!!!" 
BGA4444Message #1610 - 01/07/10 03:01 PMDecoy, looks like the making of a "w" recession to me! But do not forget sales tax revenue is also a "lagging" indicator! First time unemployment claims drop to 432,000 and economist are pleased! What is wrong with these pictures?
decoy409Message #1611 - 01/07/10 03:09 PMBGA$$$ , I stated long,long,long ago that this money is NOT FREE! Goyya a love the people that still push the issues a side into 2 cats,POLITICAL & FINANCIAL! Wow,that is blind! Lets all that want continue to see in PITCH DARK do so. Just keep everybody divided and apart due to the pokers in the fire. The story from the old book.
Crying TreeMessage #1612 - 01/07/10 03:45 PMThey are trying to put .03 cents a gallon gasoline tax in some cities in Oregon. Mandatory health care payments are coming and no one one has two nickels to rub together. Walt Disney needs a depression land in his kingdom so we can all have fun instead of this real life crap. Your neighbors are the squatters and the open range people are the realtors. The sheriff is in jail and Laurel & Hardy are running the country. They just caught a bunch of counterfeiters here in Oregon claiming to be government workers. The old book the good book? Too bad their is not too much respect for the old people as they have the knowledge. It is the year of the Tiger but Tiger is on the run. Just a hint for some of you young people.
reverendbarbMessage #1613 - 01/07/10 04:06 PMShadowstats unemployment chart is interesting. www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/unemployment-charts Looks like depression era numbers to me!!
Crying TreeMessage #1614 - 01/07/10 04:11 PMCorrection- The Sheriff is not in jail yet. He is just on tv a lot saying he did not do it. Sure are a lot of fat Sheriffs around the northwest. I get confused, Their is the Sheriff, The Marshall, The City Cops, The FBI, The CIA, The IRS, The Rent A Cop, The Truant Officer, The Fish Cops, The State Patrol, The California Highway Patrol, The Prison Guards, The Shore Patrol, Body Guards and some guy on TV claiming to be a Bounty Hunter. Is he a cop? Are detectives cops, are dna people & finger print people cops? Who were those guys at work, internal security, if you see them you are fired. Are they cops? Who pays all these people? No wonder the economy is in trouble.
JnapMessage #1615 - 01/07/10 06:57 PMFellow message board posters please try to take the long view. Consider where we were one year ago. We were not showing any signs of improving our economy, GM and Chrysler were close to going out of business causing most of their suppliers to also fail. The banking and financial industries were on their knees and the market was heading into the abyss. Unemployment was accelerating and the housing market was showing no sign of recovering or improving. Compared to last year things are defiantly improving. Yes, I know we have a very long way to go but it must be kept in context. The fact that the market has improved is a big plus. Many people, including myself, feel like we can spend a little and are much encouraged by the improvement in our portfolios. Christmas sales, for most retailers, are showing improvement over 2008 as are car sales. Ford is a particularly bright spot. I think a good analogy is to compare our economy to a very sick person that is just beginning to recover. Not healthy but recovering. The danger is that the Government may decide that more medicine · be it stimulus or whatever is needed to create jobs · doesn·t need to be done, and that they have done enough. That would be a mistake because if you consider what happened during the great depression, a reduction in Government spending caused the economy, which was recovering, to take another big drop. Enough medicine must be provided to make sure the economy has truly recovered and if private enterprise doesn·t provide it the Government must. A big part of that is that the banks have got to start lending. I know that is a problem considering their fear of loses but it has to happen. Maybe the Government will have to provide some loan protection to get the ball rolling but business lending is imperative. Another is that just a small percentage of the stimulus money has been spent. I don·t know the reason but it is time to get the money out there and get people back to work. I suspect that there was not near as many shovel ready projects as expected but let·s heat up the shovels and get things going. Someone, or something is dragging their feet and we just can·t wait. I am encouraged but not overly so.
decoy409Message #1616 - 01/07/10 07:26 PMI think a good analogy is to compare our economy to a very sick person that is just beginning to recover. Some of you are just cracking me up today with your great humor! Thanks!
flying higher...............Message #1617 - 01/07/10 08:10 PMNo No No Jnap, it's like a very sick person on his/her deathbed! Let's get it right.
neohguyMessage #1618 - 01/07/10 08:21 PMFellow message board posters please try to take the long view. Consider where we were one year ago. We were not showing any signs of improving our economy, GM and Chrysler were close to going out of business causing most of their suppliers to also fail. The banking and financial industries were on their knees and the market was heading into the abyss. Unemployment was accelerating and the housing market was showing no sign of recovering or improving. I appreciate your commentary although I disagree somewhat. As far as the market being in the abyss last spring, I think that 75% of the rebound was because of socializing the losses of tbtf banks and insurance agencies. Since these entities escaped unscathed and the perps were richly rewarded with big bonus packages then I expect the behavior to continue with worse results. The cost of these bail outs, which are to be paid by you and me along with our grandchildren, is tremendous. We will have significantly less to spend or invest. Initial claims in unemployment are less dire than what they were a year ago. Continuing claims are significantly worse than what they were a year ago and I don't see a light at the end of the tunnel for this. I've been through a down turn in the 70's and a pretty brutal recession in the early 80's. Although my personal situation is good today, I think that the casualties of this recession, along with the casualties from the GWB era have a very poor chance of finding a decent paying job. This countries policy is to outsource any job possible in the private sector. There is little safe haven in the public sector at this time, or in the foreseeable future, for obvious reasons. The employees of GM and Chrysler were sold out by the government, their fellow Americans, and their Union. The unions are spineless entities that have developed two tier wage that protect the older leadership at the expense of the their younger membership. This has been union policy for a couple of decades in the rust belt. No wonder why young people don't trust unions! They think it's a Ponzi. Is housing up or is it on govt life support with a huge shadow industry? There are great debates going on concerning whether deflation or massive inflation are in our cards. I hope neither because neither is pleasent. Condition of the economy can be perceived quite differently depending on where you live. Metro Detroit would look worse than the GD while other areas would only appear recessionary. Just my long winded .02.
Crying TreeMessage #1620 - 01/08/10 02:03 AMIs not the Federal Government the biggest employer in the USA? They all have jobs and are doing fine. The rest of you are unnecessary overhead. Just take your cup of noodle and divide it up 4 ways and stop complaining about government workers eating steak.
|
|
bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
|
Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 2:27:49 GMT -5
rjslrsMessage #1621 - 01/08/10 11:24 AMHere is where the rich will be living in the near future: ferrellagain.com/index.php?pageID=1825_2 Work hard and you too can live in a "gated" mobile home community.
BGA4444Message #1622 - 01/08/10 02:59 PMOnly 84,000 jobs lost in December how great. This reminds me of one of the lines from a great book. "Hey George I can see those rabbits George" as George(the government) puts a bullitt it the head of the American people!
decoy409Message #1624 - 01/08/10 07:54 PMHi dj! Say you really think! My gosh could that really happen? Just being sarcastic. Have a god day!
sweet snailMessage #1625 - 01/08/10 08:10 PMEverybody be careful and think of the best way to survive. Living with relatives is good, if you can get along. Sharing a car is good, if you can still get your travel done.
Crying TreeMessage #1626 - 01/08/10 08:20 PMLet us try to be honest for a change. Wall Street, Banks and Realtors have sunk America. The market is a robust 10,600, Some Bank stocks are up a robust 500% and Realtors are selling properties dirt cheap. The stimulus money is not circulating through out the economy and the country has a plugged artery. With another tidal wave of bankruptcies hitting the country, some states such as Arizona and Delaware up into the seventies in percentages, the country is going to have a major heart attack. Too big to fail was proven wrong years ago when the second largest telephone company in America, WorldCom, went bankrupt. The ones who caused the problem are doing great but the American people are in a depression with no work or help in sight. Baby Boomers can't retire because of retirements lost in the stock market and the young cannot move up because the old need to hang on to make enough to retire. A great recipe for diaster.
Falling Sky - NotMessage #1627 - 01/08/10 08:53 PMNEW YORK - The partnership that paid a record $5.4 billion for two of New York City's biggest apartment complexes is having money problems. The group led by Tishman Speyer and BlackRock Realty said it wasn't able to make a full $16 million loan payment that was due Friday. Just like the energizer bunny it keeps going and going!
BGA4444Message #1628 - 01/08/10 09:08 PMAlso chapter 7 bankruptcies are on fire especially in the 100,000-300,000 crowd!
decoy409Message #1629 - 01/08/10 09:09 PMFalling Sky-Not , a measly $16 million
decoy409Message #1631 - 01/08/10 09:22 PMdj , this just gets better and better hey! The lies are running as fast as diarrhea now! I see rattle battle patrol came home.
Falling Sky - NotMessage #1632 - 01/08/10 09:56 PMa measly $16 million It's the 5.4 Billion number you have to pay attention to - That's a lot of Commercial Real Estate to go down in one chunk.
|
|
bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
|
Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 2:28:42 GMT -5
flying higher...............Message #1633 - 01/09/10 06:11 AMC'mon, 85,000 jobs for December? Really? Seriously? Who in their right mind believes this crap? The numbers will be revised next week anyway cause the Labor Dept. keeps printing false data. Yeah, what's the real number? I'm sick and tired of being lied to!
great depression1Message #1635 - 01/10/10 01:23 AMHell,I grow my own tobacco and food................speaking of which its time to do some hog killin
rjslrsMessage #1637 - 01/10/10 02:13 AM"Half of US kids depend on food stamps during childhood: study Five years ago, 48% of kids in our elementary school district were on free or reduced lunches, I believe it is safe to say they are getting other assistance as well............now that number is over 50%, how much over, I am not sure.
Crying TreeMessage #1638 - 01/10/10 03:32 AMWe are in a Big Depression. The US Government just won't admit it. What has to happen? Everybody lose everything and China take over the United States?
Crying TreeMessage #1639 - 01/10/10 04:23 PMWhoops, There goes 1800 UPS jobs. People will not believe this stuff until it happens to them. Gloom & Doom is one thing the truth is another.
Falling Sky - NotMessage #1640 - 01/10/10 06:38 PMHONOLULU - Cash-strapped Hawaii can't afford to pay for an election to replace a congressman who is planning to step down next month to run for governor, potentially leaving 600,000 urban Honolulu residents without representation in Washington. Budget cuts have left the state Office of Elections with about $5,000 to last until July, with a special election costing nearly $1 million, interim Chief Elections Officer Scott Nago said. Until the state finds money or this fall's regularly scheduled elections occur, one of Hawaii's two seats in [www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34782085/ns/us_news/#] the House of Representatives will remain vacant. Looks like the state of Hawaii thinks we are in a Depression - Not enough money to hold an election!
FetonaMessage #1642 - 01/11/10 04:01 AMWASHINGTON · Nearly half of all US children, including an overwhelming majority of black children, will eat meals at some point during their childhood paid for by food stamps, an indicator of poverty, a study showed Monday." And in another study(s) they say Americans are more obese than ever. Hmmm, is this what they call a paradox?
Crying TreeMessage #1643 - 01/11/10 06:22 AMFetona, I find that strange too. I grew up dirt poor and was as skinny as a rail. I fist fought the bullies all the way through school. Fight at the tracks, staring Crying Tree. I gave it to em good, none came back for seconds. I would bite off their ears, break their fingers, what ever it took. I was out weighed by at least 40 pounds by these bums of the week. Sure are a lot of fat poor people. What is this? I came from there too and not eating is the greatest diet plan in the world. 
BGA4444Message #1644 - 01/11/10 12:07 PMObesity should be the leading indicator for increased insurance cost! If money doesn't make the fat lose weight nothing will. If you smoke or drink higher insurance cost. This would lower rates for the rest of us and get the others a incentive to quit killing themselves!
|
|
bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
|
Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 2:29:34 GMT -5
Crying TreeMessage #1645 - 01/11/10 04:26 PMI have taken a closer look at Obesity & the economy. The guy on one side has Obesity and his wife. They don't work. The kids are skinny. Do they color the eggs green so the kids don't eat them? The guy across the street has Obesity and he doesn't work. He wife has more Obesity and the daughter has more than both of them put together. The women wear short shorts and walk around in the snow. They are very nice people. The people on the other side don't work and both have obesity. The flip side of this is these druggies are skinny. The hookers on tv hooked on crack & heroin look great. The log truck drivers going through two foot of snow pulling double trailer full of logs at 80 miles an hour are on something. Meth or amphetamines. Call my broker today to put more money in my account. Very long speech on the recording how the economy is going to pick up and pay no attention to the lay offs. I do my own thing and certainly do not need a speech. If all goes down the drain I simply look in the mirror.
BGA4444Message #1646 - 01/11/10 08:21 PMCaterpillar's income growth for the last twelve months is on down 53%! But hey "everything is beautiful in it's own way. Under God's heaven above the market's going to find a way!" Cat is leading the market up today! Buy Buy Buy!
decoy409Message #1647 - 01/11/10 09:13 PMdjrick or neo noted Fridays and Mondays over a long term time frame. The majority rule as up days. Leave them on a good note on Fri. and on Mon. then squash 'em. That is some good team strategy!
neohguyMessage #1648 - 01/11/10 09:14 PMSome ugly charts: [ 2.bp.blogspot.com/_9ZzZquaXrR8/S0iU3BqTslI/AAAAAAAAFU4/O6aLYXvtR8Y/s1600-h/Dave2.png]  to its lowest level since August 1985. [ 4.bp.blogspot.com/_9ZzZquaXrR8/S0iU28zK0vI/AAAAAAAAFUw/xqGPR7R6tdo/s1600-h/Dave3.png] 
neohguyMessage #1649 - 01/11/10 09:14 PM[ 3.bp.blogspot.com/_9ZzZquaXrR8/S0iU2pHyo6I/AAAAAAAAFUo/WGRU6_ji4i0/s1600-h/Dave4.png]  [ 3.bp.blogspot.com/_9ZzZquaXrR8/S0iU1LSM-PI/AAAAAAAAFUg/x4k-krj92oQ/s1600-h/Dave5.png] 
JnapMessage #1650 - 01/11/10 10:15 PMThese charts are no surprise. Have you not been paying attention? It has been stated that employment must increase by 125 thousand jobs, every month, just to cover the increase in population. We obviously are barely managing to stay even but that is no surprise. Employmrnt is not expected to improve until the last quarter of 2010, by most measures so we will have to wait to see how the economy does in the next six months.
neohguyMessage #1651 - 01/11/10 10:31 PM These charts are no surprise. Have you not been paying attention? It has been stated that employment must increase by 125 thousand jobs, every month, just to cover the increase in population. We obviously are barely managing to stay even but that is no surprise. Employmrnt is not expected to improve until the last quarter of 2010, by most measures so we will have to wait to see how the economy does in the next six months. Lol, yes I read a little here and there. I also remember early 2008 that there would be no recession. Later 2008 that we would see job creation third qtr 2009. What I find interesting about some of the charts is that they start in the early 70's or 50's. This typical recession has blown the recent recessions away in many categories. Just curious, what sectors do you see improving for employment in the next six months? Housing? Manufacturing? Transports? Even more important show me something that will be self sustaining in six months (without govt "stimulus"). Remember, don't say "mission accomplished" too soon. I guess that if we create double the 125k jobs/mo then we will keep all the newcommers employed and have the 10mm unemployed working in 6-1/2 yrs. I hope so but I doubt it.
Crying TreeMessage #1652 - 01/12/10 12:26 AMWhoops, There goes another 1200 employees from AOL. Of course the market went up on the news.
neohguyMessage #1654 - 01/12/10 12:11 PMThanks djrick. Sad that we have to read a main stream article from the UK to decipher the numbers.
great depression1Message #1655 - 01/12/10 12:48 PMSECOND HAND SMOKE IS A JOKE Ask the anti-tobacco folks to tell you what truly is in second hand smoke...when it burns from the coal its oxygenated and everything is burned and turned into water vapor...thats right water...you ever burned leaves in the fall...know how the heavy smoke bellows off....... Thats the organic material releasing the moisture in the leaves, the greener the leaves/organic material the more smoke thats made..thats why second hand smoke is classified as a class 3 irritant by osha and epa as of 2006........IN 1993 EPA decided to change the listing of shs to a carcinogen for political reasons ......because it contained a trace amount of 6 chemicals measured in picograms so small even sophisticated scientific equipment can hardly detect it. If the same standards to make shs/ets a carcinogen were applied to a glass of tap water, certain foods and most other things in the natural environment they would also be carcinogens. The failure of the EPA to use the dose makes the poison chart in this political decision makes their entire claim a moot point. However osha still maintains shs/ets as an irritant only and maintains the dose makes the poison position.......as osha is in charge of indoor air quality its decisions are based on science not political agendas as epa's is. We can see this is true after a federal judge threw out the epa's study on shs as junk science..What OSHA should be doing is applying the general duty clause and set indoor standards where limits of safe levels are set. But dog gone it,thats why OSHA didnt set a standard because there was just nothing in shs/ets that could be deemed harmful to humans. So it was left as it was a simple class 3 irritant. Wednesday, March 12, 2008 British Medical Journal & WHO conclude secondhand smoke "health hazard" claims are greatly exaggerated The BMJ published report at: www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/326/7398/1057 concludes that "The results do not support a causal relation between environmental tobacco smoke and tobacco related mortality. The association between exposure to environmental tobacco smoke and coronary heart disease and lung cancer are considerably weaker than generally believed." What makes this study so significant is that it took place over a 39 year period, and studied the results of non-smokers who lived with smokers..... meaning these non-smokers were exposed to secondhand smoke up to 24 hours per day; 365 days per year for 39 years. And there was still no relation between environmental tobacco smoke and tobacco related mortality. In light of the damage to business, jobs, and the economy from smoking bans the BMJ report should be revisited by lawmakers as a reference tool and justification to repeal the now unnecessary and very damaging smoking ban laws. Also significant is the World Health Organization (WHO) study: Passive smoking doesn't cause cancer-official By Victoria Macdonald, Health Correspondent " The results are consistent with their being no additional risk for a person living or working with a smoker and could be consistent with passive smoke having a protective effect against lung cancer. The summary, seen by The Telegraph, also states: 'There was no association between lung cancer risk and ETS exposure during childhood.' " And if lawmakers need additional real world data to further highlight the need to eliminate these onerous and arbitrary laws, air quality testing by Johns Hopkins University proves that secondhand smoke is up to 25,000 times SAFER than occupational (OSHA) workplace regulations. The Chemistry of Secondary Smoke About 94% of secondary smoke is composed of water vapor and ordinary air with a slight excess of carbon dioxide. Another 3 % is carbon monoxide. The last 3 % contains the rest of the 4,000 or so chemicals supposedly to be found in smoke· but found, obviously, in very small quantities if at all.This is because most of the assumed chemicals have never actually been found in secondhand smoke. (1989 Report of the Surgeon General p. 80). Most of these chemicals can
great depression1Message #1656 - 01/12/10 01:18 PMThe Chemistry of Secondary Smoke About 94% of secondary smoke is composed of water vapor and ordinary air with a slight excess of carbon dioxide. Another 3 % is carbon monoxide. The last 3 % contains the rest of the 4,000 or so chemicals supposedly to be found in smoke· but found, obviously, in very small quantities if at all.This is because most of the assumed chemicals have never actually been found in secondhand smoke. (1989 Report of the Surgeon General p. 80). Most of these chemicals can only be found in quantities measured in nanograms, picograms and femtograms. Many cannot even be detected in these amounts: their presence is simply theorized rather than measured. To bring those quantities into a real world perspective, take a saltshaker and shake out a few grains of salt. A single grain of that salt will weigh in the ballpark of 100 million picograms! (Allen Blackman. Chemistry Magazine 10/08/01). - (Excerpted from "Dissecting Antismokers' Brains" with permission of the author.) The Myth of the Smoking Ban ·Miracle· Restrictions on smoking around the world are claimed to have had a dramatic effect on heart attack rates. It's not true. www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/7451/ As for secondhand smoke in the air, OSHA has stated outright that: "Field studies of environmental tobacco smoke indicate that under normal conditions, the components in tobacco smoke are diluted below existing Permissible Exposure Levels (PELS.) as referenced in the Air Contaminant Standard (29 CFR 1910.1000)...It would be very rare to find a workplace with so much smoking that any individual PEL would be exceeded." -Letter From Greg Watchman, Acting Sec'y, OSHA, To Leroy J Pletten, PHD, July 8, 1997 -harleyrider1978 Heres what the smoke free groups did to try and prove a connection to heart disease and second hand smoke.... The "30 minute" experiments that the statement is based on have nothing at all to do with the exposures one might get on a park bench sitting next to a smoker or even with what one would normally get in any decently ventilated bar or restaurant. The exposures in the supportive experiments involve smoke concentrations at levels of 400% to 2,000% as high as what used to be measured in the middle of the smoking sections of pressurized airplanes!! (Which used to be held up as one of the worst smoking environments.) The experiments take nonsmokers who avoid smoke in all their daily home, social, and working life, force them to sign papers acknowledging the "danger" they are about to be put in, and then sealing them in smoke-choked chambers that nonsmokers would run screaming from if they weren't being paid $100 to endure 30 minutes for science. . . . When the poor souls come stumbling out blood test measurement show small changes that could theoretically relate to heart disease. The changes are like ones other experimenters find when they feed subjects a bowl of corn flakes and milk.... but in the kooky world of antismoking research those results get twisted into representing an unusual and deadly threat. And remember: they only get those results in EXTREME conditions, nothing like normal restaurant/park or even decent bar/casino exposures. . . . The Antismokers today are lying just like Big Tobacco did back in the 1950s. Antismoking extremism needs to be put to rest. Smoking is unhealthy like a lot of other things, but the smoke from burning smokers at the stake smells a lot worse than Newports. . . . Cornflakes, White Bread Could Boost Heart Risk 'High-glycemic' carbs like these hamper blood vessel function, study shows. THURSDAY, June 11 (HealthDay News) -- Eating a diet rich in carbohydrates that boost blood sugar levels -- foods such as cornflakes or white bread -- may hamper the functioning of your blood vessels and raise your risk of developing cardiovascular disease, a new study suggests. www.healthfinder.gov/news/newsstory.aspx?docid=627806
|
|
bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
|
Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 2:30:26 GMT -5
Coulee CarolMessage #1657 - 01/12/10 01:47 PMWE are in a recession, heading for a depression. AS a "depression babay" I remember well. So keep all your cash, keep your shelves, freezer etc full, buy the clothes you will need for the next few years while you still have your 401's etc. Learn all the samll economies, get rid of that gas hog, turn the thermostat down and prepare to wait it out. Oh yes, lay in a suppply of dvds and books and find out where the public library is. Been there, done that, and am getting ready to do it again. CJN
great depression1Message #1658 - 01/12/10 02:13 PMLibrarys are the first thing closed by cities when funds run out...........already seen many do it now
Falling Sky - NotMessage #1659 - 01/12/10 02:38 PMEmploymrnt is not expected to improve until the last quarter of 2010, by most measures so we will have to wait to see how the economy does in the next six months Hey last year all the government "experts " were saying 1st Qtr 2010 now 4th Qtr??? By December they will be saying 3rd Qtr 2011!!! Early on most of us "Non-experts" were saying 2012 at the earliest for recovery - Let's see who comes close to being right. I'm betting on the non-experts!
decoy409Message #1660 - 01/12/10 03:17 PMFalling Sky - Not , Experts? ?? Oh you mean those that keep up with what goes on outside the window,not the ones that are expertly brainwashed.
Falling Sky - NotMessage #1661 - 01/12/10 05:12 PMDecoy, You did notice I put the word experts in quotes did you not?
Crying TreeMessage #1662 - 01/12/10 10:35 PMWhoops, 10 sam clubs closing. Long Beach, Calif. had three old library ladies who work together for years. The city told them one had to go and they could decide among themselves who would get laid off. All three quit.
BGA4444Message #1663 - 01/14/10 02:22 PMMore great unemployment numbers today! Only 11,000 higher than projected not too bad unless you are one of the 11,000. Looks like this is going to be a jobless recovery after all. I am very sorry for those of you looking for work. Hopefully they will extend the benefits again!
amazenMessage #1664 - 01/14/10 02:30 PMthe unemployment numbers are all over the place we need to bring back some faith in are elected officials.
great depression1Message #1665 - 01/14/10 02:30 PMNew jobless claims rise more than expected Initial claims for unemployment benefits rise as hiring lags in sluggish economic recovery [ us.rd.yahoo.com/finance/news/apf/SIG=10kfmofol/*http://www.ap.org/]  [/ul] By Christopher S. Rugaber, AP Economics Writer , On Thursday January 14, 2010, 8:53 am WASHINGTON (AP) -- The number of newly laid-off workers requesting unemployment benefits rose more than expected last week as jobs remain scarce amid a sluggish economic recovery. The Labor Department said Thursday new claims for unemployment insurance rose by 11,000 to a seasonally adjusted 444,000. Wall Street economists polled by Thomson Reuters expected an increase of only 3,000. The rise was partly a result of large seasonal layoffs in the retail, manufacturing and construction industries, a Labor Department analyst said. The second week of January usually sees the largest increase in claims, unadjusted for seasonal trends, during the year, the analyst said. Still, the increase didn't disrupt the longer-term downward trend in claims. The four-week average dropped to 440,750, its 19th straight drop and lowest level since August 2008. Initial claims are considered a gauge of the pace of layoffs and an indication of companies' willingness to hire new workers. Claims have dropped steadily since last fall, as companies cut fewer jobs, raising hopes that hiring may increase soon. Initial claims have dropped by nearly 90,000, or 17 percent, since late October. Two weeks ago, new claims dropped to their lowest level since July 2008. Despite the recent drop, the economy is not yet consistently generating net increases in jobs. The Labor Department said last week that employers cut 85,000 jobs in December, after adding only 4,000 in November. November's increase was the first in nearly two years. The unemployment rate was unchanged at 10 percent. Many economists say the four week average of claims will need to fall to below 425,000 to signal that the economy is close to generating net job gains. Meanwhile, the number of people continuing to claim benefits dropped sharply to 4.6 million from 4.8 million the previous week. The continuing claims data lags initial claims by a week. But the so-called continuing claims do not include millions of people who have used up the regular 26 weeks of benefits customarily provided by states, and are receiving extended benefits for up to 73 additional weeks, paid for by the federal government. More than 5.3 million people were receiving extended benefits in the week ended Dec. 26, the latest data available. That's a drop of about 135,000 from the previous week. The increasing number of people claiming extended unemployment insurance indicates that even as layoffs are declining, hiring hasn't picked up. That leaves people out of work for longer and longer periods of time. Some employers are continuing to cut jobs. The struggling Internet company AOL Inc. said Monday it will lay off up to 1,200 employees. Among the states, New York reported the largest increase in claims, with 22,810, which it attributed to higher layoffs in the construction, service and transportation industries. North Carolina, Georgia, Wisconsin and Alabama reported the next largest increases. The state data lags initial claims by a week. Illinois had the largest drop, with 6,928, which it attributed to fewer layoffs in the construction and manufacturing industries. Florida, Kansas, Maryland and California had the next largest decreases.
frank the impalerMessage #1667 - 01/15/10 03:28 AMBGA4444-nice post today, thanks for the credit, but if you have read anything I said its not about what I believe as much ...I have to look at what I see...agree or not I have to act on the intel...people think I just blow smoke but this is the smoke that see and it does not get in my eyes and blind me to the fact it can all go away tomorrow
TerankoMessage #1668 - 01/15/10 05:30 PMCapitalism sounds great in theory, but that ugly trait called 'greed' inherent in all mankind to some degree, and the power it provides, will never allow it too work properly. Jay Leno returning to kick Conan O'Brian off the show, that he surrendered to him, epitomizes that. Why does a guy with 800 million dollars feel compelled to do something like that, especially given the BS he went through to obtain the rights to that show from Johnny. I'm not a Conan fan, not by any stretch, but it depicts the underlining problem with wealthy Americans. High society was supposed to set the bar that we all aspire too. Now I see the entire class as nothing more than brash, greedy, nouveau riche that will never be satisfied with the wealth they acquire or the values they are portraying to society. Tiger Woods, Jay Leno, Bernie Madoff, Lloyd Blankfein, Dick Fuld, the list goes on and on. They are all cut from the same cloth. How much money do these people need? How can they sit idle as thousands still suffer from Katrina and now the earthquake in Haiti and justify the fortunes they have amassed and continue to harvest? Just because they can doesn't make it right. If we continue down this path, we will learn the hard way what it will be like when you forsake your fellow man. A revolution in mankind is near. Contrary to what all these rich, powerful people think, the weak shall inherit the earth.
|
|
bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
|
Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 2:31:19 GMT -5
outoftheworldMessage #1669 - 01/15/10 06:02 PMHere's a no-brainer: [ www.cnbc.com/id/34877347] Are Banks Making Secret Deals To Allow More Short Sales?  ...And just who are those guys who have been pushing SHORT SALES so frantically? Bunch of GREEDY CLOWNS is all they are! Ripping people off to make a quick buck, and they call this technique CREATIVE FINANCING.
Crying TreeMessage #1670 - 01/15/10 07:06 PMThe banks are not ripping off the buyers. I bought one. The banks are fighting each other over these short sales and what they are worth and what they will loan out on them. Three people got jobs on my block and that is up 100%. The market looks ahead but runs behind because they need to wait for their percentages to appear after the fact. The Bear may show his face for a brief moment before the facts come in and that may be the time to ****.
outoftheworldMessage #1671 - 01/15/10 07:21 PMCrooked bankers and infomercial short sale pundits are working together at taxpayer expense. Wake up people. Housing has not bottomed! why else would they have short sales to begin with...Nothin' but phony con artists COLLUDING.
outoftheworldMessage #1672 - 01/15/10 07:44 PMHey anybody know how much a loaf of bread is going to cost next year? Stack up on yours today before Uncle Sam and foreign governments buy-up most of the supply leaving us out in the wind like worthless chaff.
kman49Message #1674 - 01/15/10 08:58 PMBy the way, Uncle Sam is looking for census workers. $15/hour. Check it out! Of course, you have to pass an aptitude test, Don't forget there is always toll booth school if you flunk out of mailman school!!
angelqueekMessage #1675 - 01/15/10 09:00 PMSome people are such arrogant jerks! You get what you give, so why don't you GIVE something instead of take, take, take? You have no heart.
Crying TreeMessage #1676 - 01/15/10 10:11 PMUndocumented immigrants from other places in the world have been taking jobs that belong to local citizens and are flaunting their status. Hi Veteran_Lender. I like discipline and believe you are doing a fine job. My friends are teaching me how to talk. Without discipline you have nothing.
TerankoMessage #1677 - 01/15/10 10:34 PMIt is love, compassion and higher thinking that separates us from the animal kingdom. This must be a zoo...
Murphy MartinMessage #1678 - 01/16/10 09:35 AMBy the way, Uncle Sam is looking for census workers. $15/hour. Check it out! Of course, you have to pass an aptitude test, I wouldn't work for less than $100 per hour. Life is too short.
great depression1Message #1679 - 01/16/10 01:05 PM
Hey Maestro,
Wal-Mart is hiring all kinds of people for non-union jobs, and you won't have to worry about all those pesky benefits either because you won't get any. Although you will get gov. insurance pretty soon, compliments of all of the union guys who will be paying for it. Oh, don't thank me, it's my pleasure. Maybe you can turn that jr. management experience into something after all! I think they call them "associates" at Wal-Mart. I hear you can work your way up pretty quick there. Why, in ten or fifteen years you can make it all the way up to assistant manager! And then the big bucks start rolling in! I think they make around, oh, 15 bucks an hour.
By the way, Uncle Sam is looking for census workers. $15/hour. Check it out! Of course, you have to pass an aptitude test, but they even help you with that! YOU CAN DO IT WATERBOY!!!!!! Obama just gave all the unions an excemption to the healtscare package.
Crying TreeMessage #1680 - 01/19/10 01:40 AMMaybe those 1200 star bucks people who just got the ax can get those jobs in the half full half empty cup of Wal-Government low benefit great jobs for preschoolers. Not of Legal age yet? That is the only thing stopping them.
|
|
bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
|
Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 2:32:11 GMT -5
BGA4444Message #1681 - 01/19/10 03:13 PMThe loss of the Senate seat in Mass. is NOT a republican win it is more of a incumbent party loss. I believe you will see incumbents get hammered in the next round of elections be they Dems. or Repubs. This will happen because We the people are sick and tired of the way the politicians have been selling out our government to the highest bidder. All the politicians could have save their jobs by getting us jobs but no. Thus incumbents will lose their jobs!
blebsMessage #1682 - 01/19/10 03:36 PMI love it!
neohguyMessage #1684 - 01/19/10 06:08 PMNew York's governor unveiled a painful budget plan Tuesday that slashes services, raises fees and implements some creative actions to close a yawning $7.4 billion fiscal gap. It's sad that it's only the politicians with nothing to lose, that tell us the truth.
1 billion dollars = 13k jobs lost immediately (that pay 75k/yr). Those lost jobs = additional jobs lost because of loss of spending power =..... Don't worry, Cramer said the recession is over.
decoy409Message #1686 - 01/19/10 07:17 PMdj hi! Northern Command is assembled for this along with a whole slew of other goodies for us! So don't worry all will be just fine. Collapse will continue and the slow will be to late to figure things out as they will be so behind and it will take to long to catch up on the changes. See dj for now it remains fun and games as it is market,market,market. Numbers can be nice,these numbers being produced is a horror story coming to life. But I could be wrong and how much do we need now for each state to sustain itself dj? maybe you and I can get a job at the printing station and just start printing the billions upon billions that will be needed to hold things up in each state. If they hire us before June 19th we might be able to even get the money out!
Crying TreeMessage #1687 - 01/20/10 02:52 PMAre you sure we are in a depression? With all the government aid I think a full stomach makes a dull mind.
Crying TreeMessage #1688 - 01/21/10 05:31 AMBGA4444, LA ,Calif. to lay off a 1,000 employees. Back to you got right. I have never seen anything like this before and I am old like you. One step forward and two steps back. This is confusing. There is a lot of government aid and not many working. Some are doing good and others are not doing at all. More & more are entering the not doing at all. The new president, I'm not sure about him either. He did not start this mess and he not doing much about it except raise taxes and health insurance no one can afford. Dreamland USA might turn into a nightmare if it already hasn't. You got one of them old rebel battle flags? I would like to have one when the charge is made. Been practicing the rebel battle yell. I sure wish Robert E. Lee would have made a truce at Gettysburg instead of doing what he did things would have been better for us all.
Murphy MartinMessage #1689 - 01/21/10 08:57 AMThe economy is growing too fast, so the government has just taken measures to slow down lending-- e.g., requiring banks to maintain higher capital reserves. The government wants 8-9% GDP growth, but there is some fear that 2010 growth could reach 15-16% if the government doesn't clamp down on it.
BGA4444Message #1690 - 01/21/10 11:00 PMFront line sales in Atlanta. The absolutely worst January in the history of our company is unfolding right before our eyes. All the salesman say it is the same everywhere in the city-just no business going on. It looks like 2010 will be a jobless and sales less year. In a word "damn''.
decoy409Message #1691 - 01/21/10 11:29 PMIf I did not know any better I would say this makes sense The economy is growing too fast, so the government has just taken measures to slow down lending-- e.g., requiring banks to maintain higher capital reserves. The government wants 8-9% GDP growth, but there is some fear that 2010 growth could reach 15-16% if the government doesn't clamp down on it.
BGA4444Message #1692 - 01/22/10 02:24 PMThe greatest political blunder in the history of mankind. The dems had they concentrated on the economy and getting Americans back to work would have won Mass., won the 2012 elections, and driven a nail in the republican coffin. Instead they elected to concentrate on healthcare during the worst crisis in American history. By taking their eye off of what truly needed fixing now (The economy) they have re-energized the republicans and will lose the 2012 elections by a landslide. How stupid can they be? Now they are already shifting gears going after the "evil" banks to try and save face with the American people. I love Obama "the American people want their money back" they are so shallow. This new strategy will kill any chance at a growth spurt and will result in a new tailspin for the economy. In other words we are now screwed big time.
|
|
bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
|
Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 2:33:04 GMT -5
BGA4444
Message #1694 - 01/22/10 03:29 PM
Schrizo, You mean "doing it" jobs wise like they did in autos, Wall st. and the defense industry that kind of do it? I hate to be the one to break it to you but Americans need jobs now not two years from now. So with that someone in Washington has to think a little differently. One thing I recommended was a tax credit on any home improvement. Painting, roof, carpet, hardwoods, siding, pools, driveway, basement remodel, and many other improvements. This would be good for all states bringing in tax revenues and jobs we desperately need now. Also it would increase the value of existing homes. It would also pay for itself by generating tax revenue at the fed level via income tax. I believe a 25% tax credit up to 5,000 would really help but the think tanks in Washington have lost are not saved about 2.7 million jobs this year. Your right they cant just do it. Maybe the economy will just fix itself so why the hell do they do anything?
Working, I work six days a week for forty percent less than three years ago. Hey you are a smart guy what would you do to create jobs or just do it?
schrizo
Message #1695 - 01/22/10 04:10 PM
I would give a business half a mans wages for a year providing you hire that person who has been out of work for 6 months. After that year it would be up to the business to take him on without assistance. It would be better than giving them welfare for doing nothing. Than maybe a gas station would hire people to pump gas and clean windows and grocerie stores would hire people to run sacks to the cars and bag groceries. It has to start somewhere and the simplest jobs seem a good place to start.
ozone7
Message #1696 - 01/22/10 04:22 PM
BGA4444 - your idea about tax credits for home remodeling is a good one, but it will only marginally effect the construction job market. The reason is that people don't have the capital to invest and eventually receive the credit. Also, banks would be reluctant at the present time to extend credit for home improvement, as so many homes are under water and being foreclosed upon.
If you read Jubak's column today, you will find that jobs are a lagging indicator in a recession. Previously, they have recovered a quarter or two after GDP growth. But for the last two recessions, it has been a year or more for recovery, so expect jobs to recover in 2011. There is really not a lot the government can do to create jobs, except create more government jobs. I agree with Schirzo. It is the responsibility of the private sector and entrepreneurs to create jobs. They will do so when the economic conditions are right.
BGA4444
Message #1697 - 01/22/10 10:22 PM
The democratic rats are racing around trying to get some scape-goat cheese as the titanic begins to sink. Ben "back the banks" Bernanke will be the first goat thrown off the boat as those hypocrite politicians line up to do anything that might please the American people. Do all you can you treasonous bs-tards it is too late the ship is going down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Crying Tree
Message #1699 - 01/23/10 03:26 AM
BGA4444, Their hiding your message but you can peek. Obama talks a lot like he did in the elections but I don't know if the bank thing is good for anybody. He is now talking about jobs. Your going to need one to pay for his mandatory health plan. Looks like we all may be government employees or on government aid. Did find that old battle flag? You made need it for yourself. If you fly it above the American flag you may get in trouble you can only do that with Mexican flags.
BGA4444
Message #1700 - 01/24/10 01:24 AM
Fellow American's we have spoken in Massachusetts and have been heard loud and clear. Politicians are scared to death over what we can do!
Now it is time to systematically take out the banks. First Bank of America if you have a account or loan with them change as soon as you can! Pass it on fellow Americans!
Crying Tree
Message #1701 - 01/24/10 04:27 AM
BGA4444 I think they sold your loan already they did mine. Think back my friend. Is this not the Punch & Judy show? The Republicans have had it and now look what we got. The Democrats have had it and look what we got. The economy is at a crawl & the sucker rally. For the younger people it is the land of the lost and the home of the bums.
Crying Tree
Message #1703 - 01/24/10 09:19 PM
Whoops, Wal Mart cutting 11,000 jobs. There must be trouble somewhere? Our newspaper said the economy was at a crawl. Which way are they crawling?
|
|
bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
|
Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 2:33:56 GMT -5
Robv in ChgoMessage #1705 - 01/25/10 04:51 AMThe local mall was empty Friday night, hardly any teenagers around. I was in Home Depot on two separate days this weekend, completely DEAD. It was a ghost town in the store. I went into a restaurant to pickup Chinese, it was completely empty. I read that rail traffic is way down again. The economy is NOT improving. I assume it may pickup once people get their tax returns but it will be only a temporary effect. Too many people have lost their jobs and cannot find new ones to save their finances. It's SCARY out there !!!
Crying TreeMessage #1706 - 01/25/10 06:59 AMMore depressing than scary. People are trying. Things are the same in Oregon. New adventure coming? Living in a ghost town? Maybe buy a metal detector and look for old coins people drop on their way to get out of town fast? When your an American, you must find good in every situation.
Murphy MartinMessage #1707 - 01/25/10 10:22 AMIf it looks like a depression, sounds like a depression, smells like a depression... But it doesn't, and it isn't.
neohguyMessage #1708 - 01/25/10 02:12 PMYou can click on your state in the following link to see how your states unemployment insurance fund is holding up: projects.propublica.org/unemployment/ [ 4.bp.blogspot.com/_9ZzZquaXrR8/S1wpjj_LghI/AAAAAAAAFcY/aH2KbkjBkrc/s1600-h/StatesUIFunds.png] 
Crying TreeMessage #1709 - 01/25/10 02:54 PMIt that a career now? Where are the jobs? Unemployment is a slow sink to nowhere land. Everything runs out sooner or later including life.
Crying TreeMessage #1710 - 01/26/10 01:31 AMThe reason American will fail and go into a depression is collateral. In my day if you wanted a loan you needed collateral. A paid for car worth $1000 would get you a loan for $300. You gave the bank your pink slip and they gave you $300. If you did not pay the loan they took your car and sold it for a profit. The stock crash in the thirties involved credit. The collateral was the stock. This worked great until the market took a correction and everything was worth less. Banks called the loans and the value of the stock was not worth the loan and panic set in. Credit cards and what is purchased with them are no or poor collateral. The bank does not want your clothes, big screen TV's and personal items. Don't pay and so what. 20% down on a home was your collateral none of this 3% stuff. $6000 down on a $200,000 home that is now worth $180,000 and do the walk away and save $14,000 more loss. Your collateral is your good credit because you have a job? You run up $10,000 and so what. You charge to stores and move. Where is the collateral? The banks do not want to loan money just as in the depression days unless you have something for collateral. 20% down or high risk 3%. Government loan companies are backed by your dollar and so what if the borrower does not pay. Credit without collateral is at the front of no loan. Gas cards & other cards through no jobs will not be paid and the affect is just around the corner. Businesses do not want to go out of business and must void cards of those who can't pay or lose money and go broke.
Crying TreeMessage #1712 - 01/26/10 06:39 PMYou do not need those places. Check [ redtape.msnbc.com/] redtape.msnbc.com Obama's mortgage relief program. This may be the final straw that broke the back.
BGA4444Message #1713 - 01/27/10 02:37 PMIf January retail sales are as bad everywhere as for my company the outlook is very grim! I have been tracking my company's sales for the last ten years and I have never seen a january like this one. Unless a miracle happens we may be down 60-70%. These numbers are very scary especially with small businesses like ours going down all around us. I had become very excited about last year after only posting a 10% decline. Ten percent was great after two years of double digit declines. But now this month is very discouraging! How are any of you guys doing for January?
kman49Message #1714 - 01/27/10 02:50 PMLast year I was down 50%. Much better this year. It will not be a banner year but it is a huge improvement. My product is a custom product for residential remodeling. Western NY never had the boom because of high taxes and low housing costs. Underwater homes are not so much an issue here.
ComoKateMessage #1715 - 01/27/10 05:25 PMHow are any of you guys doing for January? It's really bad in dentistry as well. I'd estimate we are down 50-70%. We've had days where our doctor has no patients booked and our hygiene schedules ( "teeth cleanings") have looked the same. My employer is struggling to meet payroll and that's *after* us going home for hours/days without pay. People are losing benefits, jobs, homes and getting their teeth cleaned/repaired isn't a priority at this point.
smallbusinessguyMessage #1716 - 01/27/10 05:34 PMnull
|
|
bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
|
Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 2:34:49 GMT -5
outaheresoonMessage #1717 - 01/27/10 05:35 PMHow are any of you guys doing for January? We had our best month ever in December. January appears to be down 8-10% from last year. We sell medical consumables and disposables.
1939sMessage #1718 - 01/27/10 06:25 PMNo problems - we're coming out of the mess ........ www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35098235/ns/business-stocks_and_economy/ (edited by me with link - sorry about leaving it out) WASHINGTON - Now that the economy is on the mend, the Federal Reserve this year can focus on how and when to pull back the stimulus money pumped out to fight the [www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35098235/ns/business-stocks_and_economy/#] financial crisis. With his prospects for another term brightening, Ben Bernanke will lead that effort.
outaheresoonMessage #1719 - 01/27/10 08:48 PMWASHINGTON - Now that the economy is on the mend, the Federal Reserve this year can focus on how and when to pull back the stimulus money pumped out to fight the [www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35098235/ns/business-stocks_and_economy/#] financial crisis. With his prospects for another term brightening, Ben Bernanke will lead that effort. Gag a maggot.
JnapMessage #1721 - 01/28/10 12:04 AMHere is what I would do to create jobs in the US. I would go down the aisles of Wal-Mart, Home Depot, and Lowes and look at the products they sell. I would identify those products made in China and provide Government money to build a plant to make those products here. And to be sure there is a market for these US made products I would apply an importation tariff allowing the US made product to be competitive. I would do this with clothing, light bulbs and lighting products, steel, cars, televisions, consumer electronics, computers, hardware. shoes and just about every product you can name. The United States, slowly, over the last 20 years, exported the very jobs that made us prosperous. We gave away our technology and productivity so that we could buy products pennies cheaper while forgetting about the domestic industries that were being destroyed. We increase the wealth of other nations and forgot about our own citizens. You may call it protectionism but I call it jobs stimulus for the American worker. To pay for these new and competitive factories I would increase taxes on all of the companies that exported jobs and technology in order to pocket a few dollars more; forgetting the very Americans the built the companies to begin with. Additionally, I would never allow a complete domestic industry to be destroyed by allowing unlimited importation. When an industry is lost so are all of the future improvements in technology associated with that industry further hindering Americas ability to compete. I would do this immediately allowing millions of Americans to be employed building the new manufacturing plants and millions more employed working in them once completed. At this time in America I know of nothing else that would work because we can no longer survive as a just service economy and it is going to take a long time for new green technology and a recovery in the construction industry to make a difference.
JnapMessage #1722 - 01/28/10 12:10 AMI would go a little further and provide Government health care to these new workers gradually moving them to a program that they can pay for once the economy recovers and that they, with their earnings can afford.
schrizoMessage #1723 - 01/28/10 02:11 AMJnap-I feel your pain and frustration. If this could work we would be leaning that way. This is a world economy now and we are not going backward. It would not be long before these out of work Americans would be whining about low pay and long hours at these new plants. It was just 2 years ago that we could not find people to work where I live. Low wages and a service economy are here to stay as long as we have freighters to carry product from China to the US. The world is looking at the US to pull them up. We are the consumers that keep the poor working in China. They need us and we love to buy those tools, TVs, and toys. If we want to create some jobs here we need to stop being so damned efficient and waste a few hours on some extra help. Won't happen will it. I don't have the answer but I think if we start to grow our food locally it would be a start towards creating interest in acting locally. We have done this to ourselves with always wanting the cheapest products. Now we have that but no jobs. Catch 22.
Crying TreeMessage #1724 - 01/28/10 03:28 AMWere up our nose in this stuff, don't make waves. or Sure glad I have a job, after I go to Hawaii I'm going to Bora Bora...or... I don't know, they didn't say.
Falling Sky - NotMessage #1725 - 01/28/10 02:25 PMFor all of 2009, durable goods orders plunged by 20.2 percent, the largest drop on records that go back to 1992. The decline highlighted the battering that U.S. manufacturers have suffered during the recession. Even with all those billions spent by the government we still dropped over 20%! This is frightening and confusing to me as the market reacts opposite to the way it should. The market gives us hope but is it false hope?
Crying TreeMessage #1726 - 01/28/10 02:48 PMFalling Sky-Not Seems like the worker always gets the sort end of the stick. In the dot com days I got options I could not cash for 3 years. The big guns got stock they could cash anytime. They cashed. When the options came due they were worthless. Not I sit here with a couple of bucks wondering why the stocks are not going down like a plane out of gas and their flying along like they got plenty. The big wins again as they buy their way out. Born to lose for the workers.
great depression1Message #1727 - 01/28/10 03:07 PMWASHINGTON - Now that the economy is on the mend, the Federal Reserve this year can focus on how and when to pull back the stimulus money pumped out to fight the [www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35098235/ns/business-stocks_and_economy/#] financial crisis. With his prospects for another term brightening, Ben Bernanke will lead that effort Nothing like leaving the fox in the hen house,hope nobody was expecting eggs in the future or fried chicken!
TerankoMessage #1728 - 01/28/10 09:07 PMHere is what I would do to create jobs in the US. All you have to do is lower the minimum wage to $1.10/hr.
|
|
bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
|
Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 2:35:41 GMT -5
TerankoMessage #1729 - 01/28/10 09:09 PMNothing like leaving the fox in the hen house You said it. The Fed is run by the 10 biggest banks in America. Any question as to why the Fed was dropping money from a helicopter into their laps...?!!!
FloridaYankeeMessage #1730 - 01/28/10 09:21 PMEven with all those billions spent by the government we still dropped over 20%! This is frightening and confusing to me as the market reacts opposite to the way it should. The market gives us hope but is it false hope? When will people learn...governments cannot stimulate. All they can do is reallocate. Every dollar the government puts in to the economy must first be taxed or borrowed out of the economy. Government Stimulus is a zero sum ponzi scheme.
time2shareMessage #1731 - 01/28/10 10:08 PMThe news media wants to label this "The Great Recession" when it should be called "The Great Credit Hang Over" as Wall Street, Insurance Co.'s i.e.(AIG, Under Federal custodianship and would have failed), Brokerage Firm (Too many failed to mention)and Banks (Too many failed to mention) unwind credit default swaps, hedge funds, derivatives, reinsurance and Mortgage Backed Securities and what other exotic instruments cocktails the con-men in Wall Street have concocted. We are Depressed, OH YES!!!! VERY DEPRESSED!!! You ask why? Because We have empowered people with Greed and Special interest agendas "Wall Street wants to think themselves as Investors/Securities Brokers/Investments Bankers...That's BULL!!! They are "BANK MERCENARIES" Were they bank on your hard cash earnings. They pay themselves first with big bonus and you get stuck with the losses....HA! HA ! The trick is on you! You fools!!!!!Let the Brain washing continue!!!! You deserve to lose all of it!!!
Crying TreeMessage #1732 - 01/28/10 10:32 PMAlbertoS- Some of your post is excellent and some is unfair. You deserve to lose it all? Some us paid our debts and are paying now for those that did not pay theirs. It is not an all or none world.
Falling Sky - NotMessage #1733 - 01/28/10 10:38 PMWhen will people learn...governments cannot stimulate. All they can do is reallocate. You should rephrase this to when will the government learn.
JnapMessage #1734 - 01/29/10 12:04 AMThe Government doesn't stimulate? You are wrong the Government does stimulate. The great depression was ended because of the stimulus provided by the US Government. You may say it was WW2 but it doesn't matter because it was still stimulus in buying war related material and supplies. I read many posts saying that taxes should be reduced. That is stimulus but, with reduced taxes comes a greater federal deficit. Isn't it obvious that the economy can not grow enough to make up for the tax cuts. If that approach worked why are we running record deficits after the Bush tax cuts? In fact we ran record deficits after the Reagan tax cuts and the Bush cuts so that approach isn't working. We need to manufacture the thousand of products that have been outsourced to China right here in the US. And the only way that is going to happen is if we impose tariffs allowing American manufactures to compete on a level playing field. There is no way we compete otherwise because China doesn't care about minimum wage, environmental damage, child labor laws, infrastructure, pollution, health care or anything else that are integral to American living standards. Hell anyone can manufacture cheaper than we when those factors are ignored. We are not getting out of this economic problem until we re-domesticate consumer manufacturing; no way, no how. The time to act is now because America is just not generating the jobs we need immediately through other technologies. Lets build at least some of our light bulbs and consumer products in the US.
Crying TreeMessage #1735 - 01/29/10 12:18 AMNice one Jnap 
FetonaMessage #1736 - 01/29/10 12:30 AMThe Government doesn't stimulate? You are wrong the Government does stimulate. The great depression was ended because of the stimulus provided by the US Government. You may say it was WW2 but it doesn't matter because it was still stimulus in buying war related material and supplies. Jnap, if in addition to our current stimulus we decided to bomb and destroy the economies of Asia, Western Europe and Russia, we would pull out of this Great Recession pretty quickly. Would you then say that we pulled out of the recession because of the stimulus or because we destroyed all competing economies? Now look back at what happened after WW2. Did we pull out of the Great Depression because of the stimulus or because all of our competitors were in shambles?
Crying TreeMessage #1737 - 01/29/10 12:40 AMFetona- Bomb & destroy economies? You know China & Russia have enough nuclear bombs to blow up the world 12 times and that was a decade ago. May be a more peaceful approach? They may gang up us? War is Gory not Glory if you have never been. How about out smart them and encourage America to compete with faster and better manufacturing of something.
FetonaMessage #1738 - 01/29/10 12:51 AMNo you missed my point. I'm not saying we should bomb anybody. I'm just saying that after WW2 we had a head start on the other major economies of the world because they were so devastated. That is why we recovered from the depression... not because of a stimulus.
Crying TreeMessage #1739 - 01/29/10 01:32 AM
JnapMessage #1740 - 01/29/10 07:49 PMWe had recovered from the great depression long before the end of WW2. But during the war the deficit was 120% of GDP. Today the deficit is 80%. We would have to have total debt of about 17 trillion to match the deficit in 1947, which was after the end of the war. Go to this site and get a good look at the deficit and who caused it. zfacts.com/p/318.html There is also a good case made for why the government must provide stimulus.
|
|
bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
|
Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 2:36:34 GMT -5
FetonaMessage #1741 - 01/29/10 07:52 PMGo to this site and get a good look at the deficit and who caused it. zfacts.com/p/318.html There is also a good case made for why the government must provide stimulus. Sounds interesting. I'll check it out tonight.
Murphy MartinMessage #1742 - 01/31/10 12:11 PMIt's SCARY out there !!! No it's not.
BGA4444Message #1743 - 01/31/10 04:07 PMI beg to differ! Ask any salesman in Atlanta in construction of any type. It is very scary and they will tell you that!
Crying TreeMessage #1744 - 01/31/10 04:40 PMIt is not scary if you have a job. If you do not have a job it is scary & depressing. I had six different trades. Maybe people do not look ahead and become complacent. This is not the first down turn and will not be the last. If you cannot do this, then do that. If you do not have an anchor on you then go where their is work. We have 16.8% unemployment here and I were still working and lost my job I would be gone like the wind. Your destiny is your own choice and riding out a bad storm may not be bad but expect casualties.
decoy409Message #1745 - 01/31/10 04:56 PMCrying Tree , this post title is ridicules. As this is not a depression. This is change in the air. Some people can continue to think and believe as they like. After all,that is supposedly free right. We have very serious issues at hand. I am not speaking in terms of US but the overall planet. As the majority continue to hold to what has kept them busy the rest of the show has continued. That is the great illusion! Tell me,on our money and elsewhere those words 'In God We Trust',well have you ever gave any thought to that? It can'not be the God that is in the Bible. For if that was,we would not be dealing with countries that do not. Like China for instance. So the word 'God' as in God we trust. This is a different form of a God. I have had long suspicions about that word. At first I thought 'oil' as 'god' as it keeps the world chain running. But now I dismiss oil. It is something else.
BGA4444Message #1746 - 01/31/10 05:58 PMIn the first great depression, most Americans were poor and living on farms. Most of their lives were not impacted by what happened on Wall St. This downturn is very different no one I know has been unaffected by this situation. For the people out there who have lost jobs, homes, loved ones, retirement funds, insurance, dignity and self respect this post is for you! Make no mistake this is a depression!
JnapMessage #1747 - 02/01/10 11:48 PMI must insist about the issue of producing the products we consumer right here in the USA. Our society consumes many, many products and I do believe it is reasonable, to insist, that we produce as many of these, as possible, our own country. Why is that such a problem? What constraints or obstacles are in the way? What law of the universe says that a country is not permitted to produce the products they consume, particularly since 70% of its economy is consumerism? I already stated that if a country elects to ignore child labor laws, pollution, employee benefits, minimum wage, and other considerations it will be very difficult for anyone to compete. And if a country has unlimited labor available eventually it will take over every industry if the cost of the product is the only consideration. What is often forgotten is that the cost of a product is only part of the overall cost. There is the cost of the unemployed, corresponding hopelessness and crime, Government deficit due to reduced taxes, welfare and most importantly, the technology garnered though the necessity of improvement in an ongoing industry. In other words once you lose an industry it is very difficult to ever be competitive again. This is a very significant factor in our inability to exit this recession. If you examine the last 20 years you will find that more and more of America·s consumer product industries have been lost. Unemployment wasn·t so much of a factor as long as the construction industry and corresponding businesses remained strong but once those industries collapsed there wasn·t anything to take there place. We have lost the diversity of jobs and are paying a very high price. The recent thrust has been toward ·green jobs and new energy industries· but these are just immerging and are a long way from solving our employment problem and for the foreseeable future, the construction industry is not going to recover. If you want jobs in America and in the future we must re-domesticate the industries we have allowed to be displaced to foreign countries. And we need to start immediately.
txbizownrMessage #1748 - 02/02/10 12:07 AMJnap, what happens when we quit buying from China, who we depend on to buy our ridiculous debt.... BOOM...it will come to that, it is only a matter of time now.
frank the impalerMessage #1750 - 02/02/10 03:40 AMWe will as a country have to "suck it up" like we do in our families. We need to build, employ, spend our monies here...who is China going to sell to Africa?
FloridaYankeeMessage #1751 - 02/02/10 01:15 PMThe Government doesn't stimulate? You are wrong the Government does stimulate. The government taxes a dollar out of my wallet, I no longer have that dollar to spend. Government spends one more, I spend one less. Please feel free to tell me how that stimulated anything. The great depression was ended because of the stimulus provided by the US Government. Incorrect, the great depression was extended because the government's "new deal" taxed and borrowed too much. That is stimulus but, with reduced taxes comes a greater federal deficit. If taxes are reduced too much, you are correct. But, for the most part, reducing taxes has resulted in increased tax receipts by the government. We need to manufacture the thousand of products that have been outsourced to China right here in the US. We do. Is a company more likely or less likely to build a plant in a country with high taxes? And the only way that is going to happen is if we impose tariffs allowing American manufactures to compete on a level playing field. Ahhh...the old tariff argument. Read a little about trade wars and get back to me. Our society consumes many, many products and I do believe it is reasonable, to insist, that we produce as many of these, as possible, our own country. Why is that such a problem? Look at high corporate taxes and Union thugs demanding $40/hr for unskilled labor. I can't blame corporations for moving out of the US. BTW, when you demand a corporation pay more taxes, who do you think pays that? Let me help you....you, the consumer, does. All of our taxes, freight charge and import duties / fees / tariff's are rolled into the cost of our products. If we can continue to sell them at a profit, we stay in business. If not, we close our doors. It is as simple as that. These corporations do not just eat these taxes. Our customers paid $1.5 million in taxes on $11.4 million in sales in December. That is a 13% increase in the cost of products to the consumer before our profit.
outaheresoonMessage #1752 - 02/02/10 01:40 PMFlorida Yankee: Thanks for that. I'm glad to see there are a few people left with some brains.
|
|
bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
|
Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 2:37:26 GMT -5
FloridaYankeeMessage #1753 - 02/02/10 02:20 PMThanks for that. I'm glad to see there are a few people left with some brains. I'm far from a know-all business guru, but I do have a little common sense coupled with some basic knowledge of how business works. A lot of our problems are created by government, not solved by them. We live in a global economy. Foreign countries compete for corporations just like mom and pop stores compete for your business. If our country continues to demonize those that dare make a profit and grow the economy, we're done. Until this country learns that, more and more companies will offshore. In fact, I expect to see more large corporations become foreign corporations with US operations. And, no, I'm not a business owner and no, I'm not rich and rolling in piles of money. Still, I don't feel that I have a right to take what somebody has risked their capital and sacrificed their time to earn. I sure like riding their coattails in the market though.
TerankoMessage #1754 - 02/02/10 11:24 PMI'm confused. We've have progressed from almost certain financial Armageddon 1 year ago, according to your Fed, into a new era of prosperity where the top ten major banks have been able to fully repay the bailout money and two quarters of growth that technically marks the end of the recession and everyone is complaining about the governments handling of the transition. I'd love to hear the alternatives that would have put the U.S. (and the rest of the world) in a better place at this point in time. So would Obama but so far it's been nothing but a roaring silence from the GOP camp.
txbizownrMessage #1755 - 02/02/10 11:56 PMTeranko Obama doesn't wanna hear anything, he has his own/shared agenda.. remember HE IS A PROGRESSIVE admitably. This latest INSANE budget PROVES IT!!!! Capitalism and Progressivism cannot coexist We have not cleared armageddon its on its way.. fast approaching. As far as the GOP I agree there no better, we have a lack of representatives who actually stand with, by and for the people. tx
Crying TreeMessage #1756 - 02/02/10 11:58 PMNothings is Perfect in any system. They all have flaws. My big gripe is I would like to have money payable on demand in something besides bs in our system.
JnapMessage #1757 - 02/03/10 01:14 AMYankee and outofhere you are missing the point. With automation and productivity improvements the cost of producing products is greatly reduced. But what if a company doesn't care about the cost of producing a product and simply decides to buy from a foreign source? I have worked for some of these large companies and I can tell you how they think. First, let's assume a large company can produce a given product for, say, $2.00 an item. Let's also assume that cost includes all labor, material, benefits, environmental concerns, plant equipment depreciation, and other costs. Now, let's say a foreign company says they can produce the same product for $2.05 an item including shipping and other factors. The US company may simply say let's close our US plant and get rid of all of the headaches and simply purchase the product from a foreign producer for 5 cents more. Additionally, we can raise our prices by 5 cents and be even and we won't have to worry about future regulations, wage requirements, training, environmental mandates, and other factors. I believe this has been the standard operating procedure for thousands of American companies for many years. There is another side to this story, however; one that had been told to me by someone working for a high tech company. They too outsourced their product and provided all of the technological information needed by the foreign company to produce their product. This worked fine for a few years but then the foreign company began producing their own product; in direct competition, using the technology provided by the American company. In other words they gave away their business to save a few dollars and future concerns. I am convinced this scenario has been played out hundreds of thousands of times in the US leading us to where we are now. To reiterate, let·s manufacture the products we consumer in this country · in this country, let·s do it now because we can no longer wait. One last thought. The Ford Company, at some point in its early history, decided to pay their employees a wage that was greatly above the industry standard. When asked why they would do that they replied that they wanted to make sure their employees could afford to purchase the cars they were manufacturing. With ten percent, or more likely 17% unemployment we need to be sure Americans have jobs and that they are manufacturing the products what they are buying or before long they won·t be able to afford them. World economy be damned if the standard of living of Americans is trashed through short term thinking and greed.
BGA4444Message #1758 - 02/03/10 03:06 AMThroughout time all great countries have tumbled from within. America will be no different. Our problem is greed and corruption. Where no matter how much money or pain is achieved or handed out it is never enough. The politicians are so blinded by the money and power they can not do what is right for America. We have all been sold out to the highest bidder. Just to service the debt we pay, our children and their children's lives will be affected in a very negative way. The future generations of American's will never have the opportunities we have had and we have just let big business steal what was rightfully theirs.
Crying TreeMessage #1759 - 02/03/10 04:03 AMBGA4444 I am on exactly the same page as you. Maybe Greed, is an incurable disease. Look at Bernie Ebbers of bankrupt WorldCom. He could of left with $400,000,000 honestly. Not be in jail today. He wanted $400,000,000 more and got Sullivan the CFO to take more with him. Bernie wanted $1,000,000,000. Sullivan got away cheap by turning witness against Bernie, Bernie rots in jail. How dumb is that. There are many more including that Madoff who even took from his trusted friends. I will never understand why stimulus wasn't put to a public vote. It was like the carnival hustle. Hurry, Hurry, do this or that before thinking. Then get stung.
schrizoMessage #1760 - 02/03/10 04:14 AMAnd yet, who would trade living in America for anything else?? Even at its worst I will take its clean rivers and lakes and mountains and plains. Just because we have less money for the future does not mean life will suck. In fact, if we spend this money right, the lives of our children may be improved with better infastructive paving the way for growth. It seems few of you value the quality of life in America and assume it will get progressively worse. We are better prepared for floods, earthquakes and tornadoes than most of the world. Our kids will be better off than most of the world as we protect those things that we take for granted. Stop writing off the future as a failure before it happens.
Crying TreeMessage #1761 - 02/03/10 05:51 AMshrizo- I grew up in Southern California. It was one of the beautiful places on earth. Pollution and concrete killed off the living environment except people. The fish I caught in the ocean are missing from their homes today. Migratory fish still pass through. Scientist warned 40 years ago "Don't eat the local fish". Even the kelp died off for 20 years until they took the chemical out of the sewage treatment plant. I moved to Washington State. Take a trip to the Washington Peninsula and look at the stumps where trees were. When does the replanting start? I am now in Oregon. Different rules with Clean Air & Water. Cutting restrictions on trees. Under passes for animals so your environment don't go splat on the road. Money would be wisely spent cleaning up the environment instead of AIG stimulus parties that take from our future kids. What? They get to around and pick up trash left by their forefathers in more ways than one?
schrizoMessage #1762 - 02/03/10 03:04 PMBorn in the 50's I have seen progress in America. Do you remember the anti littering campaign?? Or the laws stopping factories from dumping waste into the rivers? Remember when lead was in our gasoline or how dirty diesel fuel was?? Remember when cigarettes were advertised on TV?? Or the economy that would not hire you based on your color? As you say (crying tree) there are many examples of where we have destroyed our environment but thank God for a few who have a better vision for the future. Southern Ca. had such rapid growth they destroyed what was in their way. Manifest destiny had its reason for being and it is hard to hold the rest of the world to another standard. We have learned and grow from that. My hope is we have learned from the banking crisis and do what it takes to boot the math gurus out of investing and back to the class room where they do little harm. These are the villians behind the risk taking that moved from Las Vegas to Wall Street. You don't hear much about this but they were the ones who set the odds for failure and gave the banks reason to gamble. Now the Chinese will have to deal with their own greed. Oregon is an awesome state and has been since I can remember. What a gift for future generations. Government can do good things by keeping business from destroying a land made for me and you. This land is your land.
outaheresoonMessage #1763 - 02/03/10 03:26 PMAnd yet, who would trade living in America for anything else?? Even at its worst I will take its clean rivers and lakes and mountains and plains. Interesting...and so, just why should we have to pay the third world all of these billions of dollars through cap and trade because we are the giant and evil polluters that we are? Could it be that this is just one more way for the elite to strangle the American taxpayer while they steal 90% of the money before it even reaches the third world?
FloridaYankeeMessage #1764 - 02/03/10 03:30 PMTo reiterate, let·s manufacture the products we consumer in this country · in this country, let·s do it now because we can no longer wait. It is a free country. There is nothing stopping anybody from doing just that. It's not up to me to tell another how to run their business. One last thought. The Ford Company, at some point in its early history, decided to pay their employees a wage that was greatly above the industry standard. When asked why they would do that they replied that they wanted to make sure their employees could afford to purchase the cars they were manufacturing. And that is fine if the car companies want to double that wage. I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is the auto industry being bailed out on my dime when reorganizing under the protections of bankruptcy would have wiped out the crushing legacy costs that are crippling our auto manufacturers. Foreign companies are cleaning our clocks and yet we double down and continue with business as usual. It doesn't make much sense. World economy be damned if the standard of living of Americans is trashed through short term thinking and greed. What Americans are you speaking of? The standard of living in the US is among the highest in the world. Our poor also have a better standard of living than most of the world. And, greed is not a bad thing. Greed drives the desire for profit and innovation leads to fulfillment of that desire. In capitalism, a product must either evolve or disappear. The US has lead the way for many years in the area of technological advancement because of greed and the desire for profits. Unfortunately, the politicization of profits and the demonization of those that dare pursue that desire for profit is really starting to take a toll. The politicians are so blinded by the money and power they can not do what is right for America. We have all been sold out to the highest bidder. Perhaps it's time to hit the reset button and get back to the government of limited size and power envisioned by our founders. And yet, who would trade living in America for anything else?? Exactly...we don't patrol the borders because people are trying to get out of America. I just wish our government would stop trying to turn us in to some "socialist utopia" similar to what our immigrant population left behind. They probably wouldn't have left if it was really that great to begin with.
|
|
bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
|
Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 2:38:19 GMT -5
BGA4444Message #1765 - 02/03/10 06:04 PMFlorida, you mention capitalism-no longer in America once government decides who can fail and who can't based on relationships and money donated to politicians capitalism is gone. They bailed out AIG then let them use our money to pay dollar for dollar on policies that were worthless! Had my five year old grandson negotiated those payments all would have been paid at 20 cents on the dollar and the recipients would have been happy with that!
FloridaYankeeMessage #1766 - 02/03/10 06:58 PMFlorida, you mention capitalism-no longer in America once government decides who can fail and who can't based on relationships and money donated to politicians capitalism is gone. I realize that. Too big to fail my backside. Good companies should profit and bad companies should go out of business. It is that system of risk and reward that keeps capitalists honest (yes, there will always be Enron type exceptions). If you're "too big to fail" then what incentive is there to limit risk and make smart, sound business decisions? Let 'em go. I'd rather suffer the financial pain rather than prolong it so my son can do the suffering. Unfortunately, I seem to be a dying breed as too much of this country if focusing on what's in it for them. We are truly becoming a society of ME, ME, ME...it's all about ME.
JnapMessage #1767 - 02/03/10 10:45 PMYankee, let·s talk about the AIG thing. First, what most people don·t understand is that while money may make the world go round it is the insurance on that money that makes it go. AIG is such a large company · it operates in 143 countries · that had it failed it would have taken down most of the financial institutions in the US. Why? Because it insured the investments these financial institutions made. And it doesn·t stop there; various local and state governments would have also been affected because they would not have been able to issue municipal bonds without purchasing insurance to protect those bonds. The combined effect of the banking problems coupled with the demise of AIG would have plunged us into a depression at least as great as the one in 1932. Well it didn·t happen because of the actions taken by both Bush · the TARP program and Obama · the stimulus program. Don·t even attempt to contemplate what would have happened without these programs because as bad as the economy may look, it is thriving in comparison to the misery that was averted. To reiterate, we need jobs and since we have lost the most jobs in manufacturing, over the last 20 years, it only makes sense that we should focus on regaining the manufacturing we lost. I don·t care if it is building green technology devices, nuclear power plants and the myriad of products required to build them, light bulbs or socks. Continuing to out source our manufacturing base is not going to help our economy recover. Here is another interesting bit of information that I came across. The Japanese decided to have a clunker program similar to the one in the US but, NO AMERICAN AUTOMOBILES were eligible. Isn't that a slap in the face? Maybe we should have only permitted GM, FORD, and CHRYSLER cars to have been eligible in the US clunkers program especially since the American taxpayer helped keep them in business. I am including Ford in the list even though it didn·t get a bailout because if GM and Chrysler had failed so would have the companies that supplied Ford. (Ford·s words not mine). It is time to take care of Americans and let the rest of the world worry about their own people. Buy in America - build in America.
BGA4444Message #1768 - 02/04/10 03:41 PMJust like most states more countries are becoming insolvent- I wonder why?
Crying TreeMessage #1769 - 02/04/10 04:00 PMNo middle class? They have always paid the way. You either make over $100,000 or $.0?
L RMessage #1770 - 02/04/10 04:11 PMDamn it**. My first thought was *Profit Takers*. This looks more like* Running Scared*. Monday we might have a better picture.
FloridaYankeeMessage #1771 - 02/04/10 04:50 PMAIG is such a large company · it operates in 143 countries · that had it failed it would have taken down most of the financial institutions in the US. Why? Because it insured the investments these financial institutions made. And it doesn·t stop there; various local and state governments would have also been affected because they would not have been able to issue municipal bonds without purchasing insurance to protect those bonds. The combined effect of the banking problems coupled with the demise of AIG would have plunged us into a depression at least as great as the one in 1932. I fully understand the reason for TARP and the result certainly was a much softer landing than a complete failure of AIG and large banks. For a conservative mind though, the idea of government choosing which companies stay and which ones go is a hard pill to swallow. This isn't the first time banks have been bailed out and it certainly won't be the last....doesn't mean I have to like it. Here is another interesting bit of information that I came across. The Japanese decided to have a clunker program similar to the one in the US but, NO AMERICAN AUTOMOBILES were eligible. Isn't that a slap in the face? No, that's a misunderstanding of the program. Much like the US, Japan set up their program to cars that exceeded a certain MPG based on city mileage using whatever testing methods they use. When US manufactures complained, Japan lowered their standards to allow some US models to qualify. US Auto manufactures were disappointed that they were not using EPA city/highway estimates....sounds a bit arrogant to me. Do we also go there and complain if the Japanese don't speak English? Why would we expect them to care what our EPA estimates are? Like I said...we're getting our clocks cleaned by foreign manufacturing and technological advances these days. Time to do something different. Just like most states more countries are becoming insolvent TALLAHASSEE -- Gov. Charlie Crist wants the Legislature to adopt a $69.2 billion state budget for next year that relies heavily on a fresh injection of federal stimulus money, an expected economic rebound in Florida and a troubled Seminole gambling deal. Crist's budget is $2.7 billion higher than the current budget of $66.5 billion. That's why. In one of the worst economic downturns any of us have ever lived through, the State of FL is asking for more than a 4% increase in spending. I don't know about you, but when I lose income, I curtail spending. Government needs to go on a serious diet.
great depression1Message #1772 - 02/04/10 05:10 PMI love it!!!! government going bankrupt.......destroys their lil socialist glass house just right!!! they taxed and spent until there was nothing left to get.
BGA4444Message #1774 - 02/05/10 03:00 PMOnly in America can you lose 22,000 jobs and the unemployment rate drop!
Crying TreeMessage #1775 - 02/05/10 03:24 PMAIG may go bust anyway. Meantime they are taking American Tax Payer money and giving themselves bonus. What's wrong with that picture? Where will all this end? The Nation needs discipline when it comes to money and who it is rewarded to. Of the people, For the people, By the people those are the rules. Big business corporations and special interest chosen by the few for the few will only help the few.
BGA4444Message #1776 - 02/05/10 07:45 PMObama says today losing 22,000 jobs a " cause for hope but not a celebration". Yes he is right if you were one of the 22,000 definitely not a "cause for celebration"!
|
|
bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
|
Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 2:39:11 GMT -5
outaheresoonMessage #1778 - 02/07/10 06:48 PMWhere will all this end? It will end with the indentured servitude to the elite unless we are able to audit the Fed and get rid of it. These people have planned our demise for a long time in order to bring in their solution of a one world government. Unless the people wake up soon, it will be too late.
decoy409Message #1779 - 02/07/10 07:10 PM Your parks closing coast to coast as well as caves. Remember the state sticker you purchase and you can enter or exit the park at anytime and camp as well. You can call it what you like as to why they are closing rapidly. I am looking at it as just some really big areas where many could live instead of the street. I would like to elaborate further but will save it. Yes the caves have to close due to a new fungus killing off the bats coast to coast however this is not a danger to humans this fungus: Smokies closing caves to protect bats from killer fungus
GATLINBURG · The Great Smoky Mountains National Park is closing all of its caves to protect their residents · bats.
A disease has swept through the Northeast, killing an estimated 400,000 bats, according to a park statement this morning.
The malady, white-nose syndrome, is believed to be transmitted from bat to bat, but humans may also spread the fungus inadvertently.
As a result, the park is immediately closing its 17 caves and two mine complexes that require permits to enter.
Violators will face fines of up to $5,000 and six months imprisonment.
The disease has hit bats that hibernate in caves and mines in nine states, from Virginia to New Hampshire, according to biologists from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.
The fungus shows up on the faces of bats, including the endangered Indiana Bat, which has been recorded in the park along with other species.
The disease causes bats to come out of hibernation severely underweight, causing them to starve before their food source · insects · emerge in the spring.
·Biologists are still uncertain about the cause of WNS in bats,· according to park biologist Bill Stiver.
·However, it is believed to be transmitted from bat to bat but also may be inadvertently transported from cave to cave by humans.
·It has not yet arrived in Tennessee or North Carolina, so we are closing all our caves to reduce the odds of the fungus hitching a ride to our protected caves on a caver coming from a state where it is already established.·
The park is closings its caves on the recommendation of the Fish and Wildlife Service, Stiver said.
·That closure advice does not apply to commercial tourist caves, but Fish and Wildlife is planning on working with commercial operators to minimize potential for spread from those sources.
·There is no known human health risk related to WNS.·www.knoxnews.com/news/2009/apr/03/smokies-closing-caves-protect-bats-killer-fungus/ Very interesting that not only parks but caves as well have been adding up folks.
ungenteelMessage #1780 - 02/08/10 04:23 AMFirst, let's assume a large company can produce a given product for, say, $2.00 an item. Let's also assume that cost includes all labor, material, benefits, environmental concerns, plant equipment depreciation, and other costs. Now, let's say a foreign company says they can produce the same product for $2.05 an item including shipping and other factors. The US company may simply say let's close our US plant and get rid of all of the headaches and simply purchase the product from a foreign producer for 5 cents more. Bingo ... I've seen that at more than one company where I have worked. Frequently it comes down to the background of upper management. Upper management with a sales background just wants to have product on the shelf to sell .. how it gets to the shelf is a headache that they don't want to deal with .. Upper management with an accounting background just wants to buy low and sell high ... manufacturing just creates a bunch of messy cost accounting .. better just to buy and sell, fewer headaches the net effect is to send American jobs overseas .. reduce the tax base in America and make one's job less demanding
BGA4444Message #1781 - 02/08/10 03:33 PMWe are truly in a depression as a country. We spend trillions of dollars to battle ghost terrorist in Iraq and Afghanistan. These terrorist over there are real but we have always fought them. We have always battled the Islamic factions that would destroy us. The real threat to the security of the United States is drugs illegal,legal, and even alcohol. We need to fight this front in every school in our country. We need to do this for the sake of our children and ourselves. We are slowly and morally crumbling from within. First we must put all students in black pants/shorts and white shirts. Then students who are in school to learn must somehow be separated from those who would interrupt this. All students must be drug tested not urine but hair tested. Zero tolerance you fail you are in the military or a military type school. There those students under tighter controls can be given a chance to get some discipline. Hopefully there they will have a chance at a normal life. Next if you are caught three times selling or buying drugs you must be removed from the gene pool and be sentenced to the death penalty. Drunk driver first time year in jail. Second time five years third time death penalty. I feel very sorry for those addicted but they end up killing or hurting those of us who are not. There is no other answer or hope for our country to get great again except drastic measures. After just one generation of these new laws think about how much better off we all would be. The illegal money taken from us to fight us via drug sales would be here in our economy and out of the hands of those who would hurt us.
TerankoMessage #1782 - 02/08/10 10:10 PMWe are truly in a depression as a country. Bin Laden is winning the war... more at eleven.
mdiwMessage #1783 - 02/09/10 02:11 AMBGA444...........that set of solutions is truly frightening coming from a supposed American. Hell, why don't we just use the Chinese solutions from the 19th century. If any member of your ENTIRE family is caught using ANY drug the military just comes in and kills EVERY MEMBER OF YOUR FAMILY as these problems generally run in families. Hell that would drop the US population to damn near ZERO as very few (almost 0% ) of families don't have a drug or alcohol problem with at least 1 family member! China did this to eradicate opium issues in the late 1800's and early 1900's Since were at it let's kill all families with even 1 child abuser or rapist, as the victims (which are normally children in the family) grow up to abuse yet others. Now US population is at 0 and the rest of the world can use our resources (since no OTHER country suffers these problems) to vastly improve the world. Such Hitler-esque solutions are not solutions, but there own set of problems. Prohibition did not work in the 20's and it will not work now. Not sure what the solution is, but you sure ain't got the right one.
Crying TreeMessage #1784 - 02/09/10 02:28 AMneohguy- Their not building anything yet. Their is a tax problem. It is cheaper to ship it than make it here. By the time they admit it was a mistake, where will we be then? I just hope we don't get invaded by others.
BGA4444Message #1787 - 02/09/10 01:06 PMLet us for a moment stop to consider Iraq. When you are in the middle of all those different tribes and you are in power you are going to have to kill a lot of people to stay in control. We as occupiers are no different. So we kill hundreds of thousands of Iraqis all in the name of democracy and this war on terror crap. We want to give them what we got-utopia. We kill hundreds of thousands of unborn babies every year. We no longer want God in schools. The ten commandments out of courthouses. Our corrupt government has concerns about their corrupt government. Who is evil here? Us or the very people we try to make like us. Iraq is one of the holiest places on earth. They are called to prayer several times a day. Most of the people that live there are gentle God loving and fearing. The small faction that are terrorist have always been our enemy. We have always fought them. But it has always been covertly through the CIA. Do you seriously believe the war on terror started with 9-11 or the first Twin tower bombings back in the early 90's. Reagan fought General Khadafy by sending a squadron of bombers to take out one of his residences and killed two of his son. They understand that type of action. Are we going to fight every country in the middle east as terrorist move across borders to other countries. We need to leave Iraq now because it is a Vietnam for us. Vietnam is certainly worse off since we left. Thank God we saved democracy there! Mdiw you talk of murder as if it is already not used in America. We send our soldiers into harms way for a war on terror. What a joke when America declares "war" on somebody we draft a million men and go level a country. Then we pick up those that are left dust them off and start rebuilding the country we just destroyed. We declared war on Germany and Japan. We leveled them but they are both better off. However, we still control them both we have military bases in both countries and we will never leave. They should well be the 51 and 52 states. You need to read the "Art of War". We will be fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq forever. Killing/murdering innocent civilians all in the name of democracy-let freedom ring! The CIA can do the same job murder less civilians at 5% the cost. Do you really believe if we wanted the nutcase out of Iran we could not have that done - c'mon get real! Murder you really believe Hitler cornered the market on that? I heard it said best kill a thousand people you are a murderer-kill a million you are a conqueror. What exactly are we? Afghanistan? Russia, who I am sure murdered a heck of a lot more people than we have, lasted about ten years there and finally figured out you can't murder them all and there is no way to win. They just pulled out and said keep it we are done. Thank God we are doing all we can at our on borders to keep this great country safe from drugs,murderers, and other terrorist who would destroy us from within!
Falling Sky - NotMessage #1788 - 02/09/10 01:47 PM Upper management with an accounting background just wants to buy low and sell high ... manufacturing just creates a bunch of messy cost accounting .. better just to buy and sell, fewer headaches What happens when China or what ever country decides to bypass the "US manufacturers, who are really no longer manufacturers" and sell directly to the US Retailers? When the retailers wise up and cut out the phony manufacturer middle man goods will be cheaper and what's left of our phony manufacturing base will disappear! One example is store like dollar tree that already by-passes the middle guys.
|
|
