bga4444
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 1:18:57 GMT -5
smallbusinessguyMessage #709 - 03/05/09 06:05 PMThat's your fix? Buy a gun? Kill people? Wow, l can see why other countries are lining up to model their way of life after ours. What an enviable way of life. With that attitude, we certainly are doomed. But that's the American way, if we can't have what we want, we'll take it. How's that working for us so far in Iraq?
Stay PutMessage #710 - 03/05/09 10:45 PMThat's your fix? Buy a gun? Kill people? Wow, l can see why other countries are lining up to model their way of life after ours. Who ever said that we care what the rest of the world does with their own countries, or how they view us. That is a globalist mentality...one world order, etc. We are American citizens who believe in the Constitution as it was written, not as the traitors who shipped our factories and jobs over seas view it. You take care of your own house first, then if the American people (not government) decides to help other countries, it's by unanimous vote, and not by the dictators we have in office now.
ComoKateMessage #711 - 03/05/09 11:53 PM
Remember, socialism and communism are two completely different things. It seems whenever a pundit in the media labels something as socialist, all of you redneck right wing retards go screaming into the hills waving your arms like chicken little. If you hate socialism so much, you better vote to privatize ALL of the government run services like the police, fire department, post office, etc., etc. It's time to vote in universal health care for everyone. 1/10 of the profits the private health provider companies pocket would be sufficient to fund a Federally run system. You are correct. I work in a clinic and we provide dental care, oral cancer screenings, biopsies when necessary. People are delaying treatment, EVEN CANCER treatment, due to lack of insurance. We are a private clinic and cannot provide the work for free since we pay over 3000 dollars a month just in our space rent ( not including salaries, supplies, utilities). Why is universal health care so scary??? I don't think younger people ( under the age of 55) realize how expensive and difficult it is to obtain health insurance for seniors or those with disabilities or pre-exsisting conditions. If we had universal health care it would: *free medical /dental staff up to provide the care we are trained to do and WANT to do *allow all individuals the care they need no matter their age, disability or financial status *relieve both small and large businesses from the expense and burden of providing health care plans to employees I've spent time in Sweden and Canada. They have better health care than we do. The research and studies done are with public monies, not by drug companies that can statistically scew the results ( and believe me , they have been known to do so....watch for issues to come up in the media soon with "bone-density" drugs...). How can anyone argue against care for infants, children and seniors? And how about throwing in everyone else? It would provide jobs for the providers, as well as freeing up people's disposable income to use for other things in the economy. If we can send our young people off to die in "oil wars" that run our country in deficeits in the trillions, why can't we afford making sure everyone gets a little penicillin of they need it? I just don't understand the arguments against health care for all....
smallbusinessguyMessage #712 - 03/06/09 03:56 AMWell Stay Put, I must agree to disagree with you. That "I'll just take care of myself" attitude is what has us in this mess in the first place. I don't want a world where we are not willing to take care of the flock, strong and weak alike. You sound like a true capitalist, through and through. Good luck in this world and the next. You're gonna need it. You guys make me think of Stalin when he said "A capitalist will sell you the rope you hang him with".
FetonaMessage #713 - 03/06/09 05:31 AMYou guys make me think of Stalin when he said "A capitalist will sell you the rope you hang him with". If Stalin were alive today he would say "A capitalist will out source rope manufacturing to communist China, then borrow money from communist China to buy the rope and hang himself".
neohguyMessage #714 - 03/06/09 01:01 PMNot trying to go religious or anything. Many of the worlds spiritual leaders denounce what they call "neoliberal capitalism". This type of capitalism is a survival of the fittest mentality that holds the poor in contempt. This system has been practiced for the past couple of decades. Some people said it was doomed to fail, and it looks like they may be correct. Most religious leaders say that capitalism (not neoliberal) is good because all people have an opportunity to own property (as opposed to total socialism). The goal of capitalism should be to make a reasonable living while striving to improve the lives of ALL men. Not the current form of instant gratification regardless of the suffering you cause to others.
reverendbarbMessage #715 - 03/06/09 02:14 PM instant gratification regardless of the suffering you cause to others. Absolutely! That attitude is what got us in this financial meltdown to begin with! When are we going to learn that we're all in this boat called "life" TOGETHER??!!
BGA4444Message #716 - 03/06/09 02:30 PMComo, great points I agree health care should be for all americans. The big argument is I do not want the government to tell me who I can see. Well bad news You got a insurance company now telling you. Also the insurance company is telling the Doctors how to treat you. Insurance companies are worried about their bottom line not you. Hey if you are rich enough you can always have someone killed for any body part you might need.
IrateIranianMessage #717 - 03/06/09 02:33 PMWhat ever happened to: Work hard, do the right thing, live your life morally and you will be successful? Something about American Dream or so and so. Sounds to me like the new American Dream is: Well I'll try a little and when I'm not what I consider to be successful, someone that I do consider successful will give me some of their wealth thus making me successful. That is a result of the mentality of entitlement and irresponsibility that we've nurtured in this country. We have been so privileged for so long that we've actually bought into our own B.S.
Falling Sky - NotMessage #718 - 03/06/09 02:55 PMDon't worry Irate, After the depression is over no one will feel privileged for a long time!
WhoRUpeopleMessage #719 - 03/06/09 03:05 PMBGA, calm down and listen to Mike C4W. Our economy is in a correction for the ills of the last 20-30 years. The economy is a reflection of the people. When you live on credit and put financial responsibilty on hold till tomorrow, this is what happens. Along with the banks being hell-bent to make sure every average joe can "afford" a Mcmansion, beemer and 12 credit cards. Has any one of you ever spent too much at Christmas time, just to find out in January that you cant make the bills work out? This is exactly what is happening now, just on a larger scale and longer timeframe. The market is run by people and people have feelings and ideas. Its not based solely on business and current conditions. The media has everything to do with this problem now. They wont give up this "recession" till it has got them every cent they think they deserve. They are preying on everyones fears and i it looks like it is working on a few of us here. Just calm down, this isnt dominos pizza, 30 minutes or its free. There is no immediate gratification here. We have to do this the old fashioned way and wait.
BGA4444Message #720 - 03/06/09 03:08 PMHey those out of work and the ones who are losing their life savings in the market are not feeling to entitled right now! Plus, the only privileged ones getting stimulated now is insolvent companies on Wall St.
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bga4444
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 1:19:49 GMT -5
schrizoMessage #721 - 03/06/09 03:21 PMIf we were doing it the "old fashioned way" I don't think we would be throwing good money after bad by propping up these failing institutions on life support. The "old fashioned way" would be to die a dignified death and warn generations to come of the dangers of "leveraging" and a plea for living within your means. Of course, this would seem foolish to those that want to dominate and exploit the responsible. We need a change of heart beginning in grade school where we would teach "politeness" and humility and raise a generation not so hell bent on instant gratification.
mike 09Message #722 - 03/06/09 03:25 PMI think we have a ways to go. It would be quick and painful, but the government is doing it's best to make it long and painful. Capitalism not being allowed to work was the problem.. Fed dictating interest rates, fannie/freddie, gov encouraging bad loans, bailouts (LTCM, and the recent ones). The list goes on. We should have had this recession at the begining of this decade, but the gov got involved and made the problem worse, and pushed it into the future. Aside from reducing it's burden on the people (taxes) and cutting spending, the gov has no ability to positively effect the situation
Sunny outlookMessage #723 - 03/06/09 03:35 PMA depression is looming and soon to come if the jobs losses do not stop and people do not start feeling confident instead of panicked. While Obama and company are still scratching their heads and figuring it out we continue to slide. The dems are up to their usual, tax and spend. Why did you think Obama would be any different that past Dems? He is doing exactly what he said he would do.
BGA4444Message #724 - 03/06/09 03:40 PM I agree "W" man the democrats are spending money like they are republicans. You got to give them credit at least they are trying to find a way to pay for it unlike the republicans! GO INDEPENDENTS GO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sunny outlookMessage #725 - 03/06/09 03:41 PMAmen. The three stooges(Pelosi/Reid/Franks) are really running things, not Obama and none of them comes off as very smart. The only way to get rid of the idiots running government today is exercise your right to vote next year when some of the congressional idiots come up for re-election and vote them out. Screaming about how things are run will not change unless you change the people running things. The only power the people seem to have left any longer is to vote the people out doing a poor job....that would send a message to Washington, nothng else has.
rick121xMessage #726 - 03/06/09 04:00 PMI like what Mike09 said: "I think we have a ways to go. It would be quick and painful, but the government is doing it's best to make it long and painful." And that example of starting with $100 each year, and sending a great deal of it away each year and expecting to become more prosperous by governmental "stirring the pot" is not even kindergarten level economics. Great example! But that seems to be what the liberals believe. Oh, so very sad! And there are other dynamic examples, I am sure, in these twenty-five pages of remarks, but I don't have the time to read them all.... Recession, depression, bread lines? Yes they are all here now, not so obvious for the government pays for the cars and fuel for the (So very sad...) people to drive to the "office of one sort or another" to pick up their checks, and on to the bank to make the deposit. I was just a lad in the "thirties", but I remember the pain, anxiety, and suffering that my parents went through. I felt Ok then, ...not enough information to know the difference. Today, I don't feel OK, knowing that my savings might disappear through bank failures, that food scarcities might be in the offing, that my safe home may not really be safe anymore, that every dollar that I might save today may not be worth anything in a few years.... I may only have been a an uninformed "lad" then, but today I am just a scared and defenseless fairly old man. Recession - yeah Ok, depression - I think so, and the slow pain is going to last for many years. So, Liberals, do your stuff!"Stir the pot" and if you can, make something out of nothing! And as for "saving the crowd" after you do your show, well I hope that it is not so long and painful as I now believe that it will be.
pope urban IIMessage #727 - 03/06/09 04:33 PMThe stock price of Ruger & Smith and Wesson are up 44% & 56% respectively. I think the American people have a good idea of the near term future. Watch a rerun of "Mad Max". When either Citi, GM, BofA, Chrysler, Wells goes under, your trigger will have been pulled. Like a huge rock thrown into a pond, the ripples will splash all the way to the perimeter. Good Luck everybody !
JROBI27102002Message #728 - 03/06/09 04:40 PMLETS GET OFF THIS DEPRESSION CRAP AND ON EVERY PURCHASE MAKE SURE ITS AMERICAN, KEEP U,S EMPLOYED. YOU WILL KNOW WHEN THE DEPRESSION HITS, 18-20% (PER HOW WE TRACK UNEMPLOYMENT) I KNOW WE ARE IN FOR A TOUGH TIME, BUT AS THE MARKET GOES MAIN STREET DOES NOT, WE WILL HAVE A SLOW DOWN ON MAIN STREET BUT AS LONG AS THE GOVERNMENT KEEPS PEOPLE WORKING (VIA RONALD REGANISM) WE WILL BE OK, AND THE MARKET WILL STRUGGLE. AFTER ALL IT TOOK THE MARKET UNTIL 1954 TO RECOUP ALL THE LOSSES FROM THE 1929 CRASH.
sharicsMessage #729 - 03/06/09 05:14 PMIn the early summer of 2008 I originally posted the following, the response wasn·t particularly complementary. As is the case with most major market turmoil over the years it begins with lax regulation, followed by massive market manipulation, leading to massive populace panic, and eventual government involvement. Sound familiar, 1890·s, 1907, 1928-1929, 1933, 1987, and 2008?  Unfortunately this time this manipulation transcends our own system and borders. Those of you out there who think we have even come close to seeing the bottom are only deluding yourselves. We still have four to five more years of these loans to follow, and unfortunately the derivatives and CDS attached to them. The derivatives because of their illiquidity and volatility pose far more risk than the actual loans themselves. Additionally, the helocs and other sundry loans (and let·s not forget the commercial mortgages and REIT·S) are to the point of teetering on default or call by the lending institutions based on the continued fall in values. Couple this with credit cards, rising unemployment, and the redemption calls by many who invested in Hedge Funds and are due their money at the end of the year, and you have what??? Add in the influence O·Bama brings ( that of an entitlement society), if elected, the fact corp. earnings are going to have to state losses associated with AIG and Lehman, and the true fact that the credit markets have been frozen since December 2007 and you have what??? Carnage come December. 6000 possible, VERY. What do we have now??? What are we adding: more entitlements, more layers of government, more debt, more market manipulation (including gov·t through PPT), and still no regulation!!! Why aren·t derivatives and CDS being regulated, they more than anything have brought the financial institutions to their knees. It appears this administration has decided it prefers a depression to a recession based on the programs they have initiated. REVERSE BILL CLINTON·S AND PHIL GRAMM·S DECISION OF 1999, BRING BACK GLASS STEAGLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How these two have escaped blame in this mess is beyond comprehension!!!!!!!!
Scarlet OMessage #730 - 03/06/09 05:38 PMGreetings All! I have been quietly reading all your posts for the past few weeks. And I agree with many of you. And I certainly wish I had heard of Celante before last week. Thank you Stay Put. I really did not start reading about the economy until the fall of Indy Mac. At that time, I told my husband to pull all our money (we were married, but had filed for divorce earlier) out of the stock market. He told me that he pulled out, but our wonderful, conservative, bank adviser told him about a great 8.5% dividend for prefereds at Fannie and Freddie. When I heard that he had invested our money last summer in these two entities, I freaked and told him to cut the loss which would have been about 40% drop then. Since we had filed for divorce, he was told not to make any deciscions without my consent. Well, he didn't sell. Instead he invested more. Fortunately, he agreed and was required to compensate me for the loss. For the last 19 years, I've been a homemaker and have raised two children. Husband mostly made all investment decisions. He always touted that he had the Harvard MBA and I was a jr. high teacher who didn't know the first thing about investing. Now he's thanking me that I "forced" him to stay out of the market. But I can't believe that he believes the stimulus package and printing all this worthless money might help the economy. When he retired five years ago, he didn't know what to do with himself, so he got caught up in daytrading - an addiction just like the video games he used to play. Staring at a computer screen and making stock picks? What types of guns should I buy? I have 18 acres, oaks, water, two wells, house built for Y2K - solar!
gogrannygoMessage #731 - 03/06/09 07:07 PMAre we headed for a depression? Absolutely -- at this point, the downward spiral cannot be contained and it started last fall with the auto industry. Congress was too late, and still is, to recognize that when people lose jobs, they won't be buying cars, they won't be paying their mortgage, and they certainly won't be spending money on "frills". As more and more people lost their jobs, the auto dealerships started closing, the repo yards started filling up, and the number of foreclosures rose, Congress should have let the bad banks and the bank car companies file bankruptcy. Our good money should have been placed with small businesses, who over history, have always pulled us out, our taxes should have gone down for everyone, and any "pork barrel" projects should not even have been on "the table". The economy is at the point now, where it has nowhere to go but down....... and we haven't even seen the worst! And small business is going to suffer the most! Once the rest of the world realizes that we are not going down the right path, our dollar will go down too!
BGA4444Message #732 - 03/06/09 09:21 PMStarting in 1927 the deflation rate stayed around for seven years before it began to inch back up.One year deflation was 10% in 1932, 1931 8%,1933 5% let us see how many of our highly leveraged banks and industries can survive what we are about to experience.
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bga4444
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 1:20:42 GMT -5
weed wackedMessage #733 - 03/07/09 02:01 AMIts an easy fix people....... 1) pass a national health care system, this will only cost 2 trillion a year 2)Tax anybody doing well...or paying there bills. 3) hire tax cheats to work for you. Does anybody really think this admonistration can fix anything ? Were heading towards an economic disaster worse than the 20's and 30's. at a fast pace. I would suggest people buy alot of canned foods, or just food in general that can be stored for several months ...even years.
Veteran_LenderMessage #734 - 03/07/09 03:06 AMJust checking in... please be sure to review the Code of Conduct. Veteran_Lender- Moderator
BGA4444Message #735 - 03/07/09 01:59 PMScarlett A beautiful name! I have a 4 month old granddaughter named Scarlett Jane. As for a gun you might try a Glock or a 38 special use hollow point bullet as they are the thug stopper. But you must go to a range and shoot it often to be prepared. But you know a lot of these guys on this thread talk about weapons and killing someone that comes to harm them. Do you think any of us would be prepared to kill men, women , and children seeking food and shelter. It would start out small but the numbers would be unimaginable. We must pray that it doesn't get to that. You I am afraid would have to move in some family and friends just to give you basic security. At a minimum you need a dog or two just to give you some notice. On the weapons any children must be taught gun safety. And weapons always must be kept in a place where young children can not get to them. Good luck and God bless you. Maybe a prayer rather than the gun.
rjslrsMessage #736 - 03/07/09 02:07 PM I have 18 acres, oaks, water, two wells, house built for Y2K - solar! Scarlet: Sounds like you have a great place to weather this thing out. Sounds like my place.....minus 15 acres, two wells, not so many oaks, house built for Y2k and solar. 
BGA4444Message #737 - 03/07/09 09:39 PMHey Cramer says the market should bottom around 5300! He wishes! The leverage all the banks had is about to hit the proverbial fan! We will be lucky if the market stays in the 3000 s area. The government will not tell you this but they can not print money fast enough to pay for the drop on the commercial side of this thing. The loss is so huge it will be what ever comes after a trillion. You think a thousand trillion might get them right side up? That is how leveraged they are and the reason billions are not a drop in the bucket! GET OUT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stay PutMessage #738 - 03/08/09 01:50 AMHey Cramer says the market should bottom around 5300! He wishes! BGA, I think that's your real problem. Why would you ever listen to the rantings of that guy off of Seinfeld. I would listen to George before listening to anything that Cramer had to say.
BGA4444Message #739 - 03/08/09 07:41 PMI think I should listen to Jerry. He is the only one with any logic. Also, not to mention he gets all the chicks!
MR BOB HAWTHORNEMessage #740 - 03/08/09 08:29 PMI HAVE IN FACT HAD 3 OF THE MOST CONSUMER BRAISED JOBS IN MY LIFE AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE ONLY WAY THAT THIS RECESSION TO BOUNCE BACK IS TO TAKE THE DEAD ASSETS AND TEAR THEM DOWN , YES THAT MEANS THAT FOR EVERY HOUSE THAT IS FORECLOSED IT MUST BE TORN DOWN, IF THE GOVERNMENT HAS ALREADY BOUGHT IT IT NEEDS TO BE GOTTEN RID OF. THAT WOULD CAUSE A RUSH BACK INTO HOUSING AND THAT WOULD MEAN THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE PEOPLE WHO WILL BE HURT, YES THAT IS TRUE... BUT THEN WE WILL REGAIN WHAT IS A BONUS MARKET THAT WOULD CAUSE BUSINESSES TO RESTART I KNOW IT SOUNDS LIKE A THROW THE BABY OUT WITH THE WATER, BUT THE BABIES IS ALREADY DEAD AND NEEDS TO BE BURIED, AS IT IS STARTING TO STINK, AND IT WILL MAKE EVERY ONE ELSE SICK AS WELL. IF THE TILE GUY HAS JOB THEN THE FRAMER HAS A JOB, AND ON AND ON, I ALSO KNOW IT WOULD CAUSE A SCARE IN HOUSING MARKETS, BUT THEIR ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WILL BE GIVING UP REAL SOON AND THAT GROUP ARE THE DIEHARDS THE LAST TO GO YES, BUT THEY ARE THE BALANCE OF WHAT WAS A GOOD TIME I KIND OF REMEMBER A HOUSING BOOM AND IT FED A LOT OF PEOPLE. I BELIEVE THAT GUY WAS LEVITT AND HE SOLD A CHEEP HOUSE THAT WAS THE AMERICAN WAY. THE NEW DEAL NEEDS TO INCLUDE THAT GROUP. I AM OLD AND I STUDIED IN HIGH SCHOOL THE HYDROGEN SYSTEM OF ENERGY PRODUCTION AND IT DID WORK, BUT HAS BEEN LOST DUE TO EMMIS ION CONTROL AND THE FACT THAT IT WAS NOT EXPANDABLE IN A WAY THAT WE NOW HAVE OF WIND GENERATION AND HYDROGEN EXTRACTION AND AS WELL AS THE SIMPLE USE OF RADIATED WATER FROM NUCLEAR ENERGY THAT IS HEAVY FOR H3O2 WHAT IS HAPPENING TO OUR ABILITY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS MISSING IS THAT PERSON WHO HAD A RELATIVE LIVE WITH THEM AND THEY PAID THAT MORTGAGE AND HOW ABOUT WE TRY AND PAY THAT MORTGAGE AS WE REALLY DO OWE THE BILL. RANDOM THOUGHTS YOU WOULD SAY, BUT THOUGHTS THAT MAY BE AN ANSWER WE HAVE NOT THOUGHT ABOUT DUE TO THE FACT THAT NOT EVERY ONE IS STUPID AND HOW DID WE GET THAT WAY ANYWAY?
BGA4444Message #741 - 03/09/09 11:26 AMThat would certainly put a lot of demolition guys to work. You see jobs are the key. Give Americans jobs at fair wages and the economy will rebound. Why not sell the houses at what they are worth. Lower house payments mean we spend money on other things. If the government forced banks and mortgage companies to refinance all homes at what they are worth today at say 3% APR. This would make the homes affordable. The government could give not loan the banks half of what they lose in cash. All done in twelve months housing problem solved. Government (people) takes a hit, banks take a hit, homeowners should be alright and have lots of newfound cash to spend on stuff. Thus putting people to work.
Reason_FreedomMessage #742 - 03/09/09 01:27 PMIf the government forced banks and mortgage companies to refinance all homes at what they are worth today at say 3% APR. This would make the homes affordable. The government could give not loan the banks half of what they lose in cash. All done in twelve months housing problem solved. Government (people) takes a hit, banks take a hit, homeowners should be alright and have lots of newfound cash to spend on stuff. Thus putting people to work. You forgot that we would have to pay interest on the national debt of trillions of dollars that was needed to give the banks money. This will increase taxes and the 3% APR would be moot point then. Why don't you just have the government force the people to spend more money too. I don't like the government forcing anybody to do anything, I like my freedoms maybe you don't.
BGA4444Message #743 - 03/09/09 02:07 PMYes Freedom Just like you I love my freedom. I especially don't like being told to pay tax on the money I make, the goods I buy with what's left. I don't like paying federal and state tax on gas, I don't like paying property tax. I don't like the government telling me when I can retire to get my social security payments. Of course this is the tax that the government forced us and employers to pay. You and me are already being told by the government how much of our money we can spend and it is getting worse. We are forced to buy insurance many times we do not need by a government that is so corrupt it is incredible. Have you tried to follow one dollar thru the system for one year. I would bet the local, state, and federal governments gets that dollar back to spend twenty times over a year. Funny thing is the government is already telling you every thing you can and can not do and you don't even know it.
smallbusinessguyMessage #744 - 03/09/09 04:32 PMJim Rogers is moving to Singapore ( www.nysun.com/business/bull-in-china-leaving-new-york-for-singapore/61856/ ). Halliburton has moved their head office from Texas to Dubai ( www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/2805636/Halliburton-chooses-Dubai-for-corporate-headquarters.html ). I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Bin Laden is their largest shareholder. All the fat-cats are heading for the hills like rats from a burning ship. The writing is on the wall people.
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bga4444
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 1:21:34 GMT -5
mchinskyMessage #746 - 03/09/09 04:53 PMThe root of the manufacturing problem (or lack therof) is the fact that american laborer have unfortunately gotten too "wealthy." When you are paying somebody $70/hr with benefits to put screws in cars while people live on $70/month in other countries, this is going to happen. The world economy will find an equilibrium. We can still make more than other people in other countries because the products and materials don't have to be shipped 6,000 miles, but not 10x more than other people. our wages must come down while other go up. It's the laws of physics. In many ways, the Internet is at the root of many problems. As great as the Internet is, it makes outsourcing services far more practical than 15 years ago. Even in sales, I used to sell the same products (software products) I do today in 1995. However in 1995 I only had to compete with about 10 regional competitors who bought ads in the yellow pages. Now, we have competitors who are located in much lower cost of living states (I'm in NJ) who advertise lower prices and lower labor rates. Much of our services can now be done via web meetings so thus, the Internet has hurt my business and lowered the wages of my employees. The flip side, is my customers are paying less for the same thing they used to buy back in 1995. The only prayer of getting significant manufacturing back into the US is to kill the unions. Every industry dominated by unions is now extinct. The only exception is industries where you still can't buy alternatives from other places (like construction or some kinds of food processing for example). Look at the trade shows? Yes they are affected by the economy. But many players have left due to, again the internet, and also the rediculus cost of the booths (usually built by unions) and the costs to have them setup. I remember exhibiting at the Jacob Javits center and we weren't allowed to plug in our own sign. We have to pay $250 for a guy to put a power strip on the floor and slap down some gaffers tape. Took about 5 minutes. Haven't exhibited since then. The unions have killed the apparal industry, are about to kill the auto industry, killed the steel industry etc. etc. However, with the current government, the union problem is only going to get worse and so will our economy until we swing back to the right and people realize you are better off with a medium paying job in the US than a high paying job hear that is eliminated because your industry can't compete with foreign wage scales
BGA4444Message #748 - 03/09/09 08:02 PMTent cities! The very worse has begun! Warren Buffet says " The economy has fallen off a cliff" . He looks for it to be better in three to five years. What do you expect him to say? The one thing he did not say was how low it would go. When asked if he thought the market was going to drop to 3300 if he would say so? He failed to answer the question beating around the bush. He has already dropped billions in the last few months. He knows it is bad and getting worse. If Warren can not figure it out how can any of us not expect to loose our shirts!
SN654Message #750 - 03/09/09 08:36 PM[ moneycentral.msn.com/community/message/profile.asp?ForumID=18&UserID=5571091] mchinsky You may be anti union but consider how the 40 hour work week came about and a multitude of other expected benefits came to be. No I'm not sure I want to live in a non-union country as then only the CEO's and selected handful of their trusted will receive a living wage. There is way too much disparity between working stiffs and the elite management group. Maybe the Tale of Two Cities should be a guide for reducing the power of the elite and recreating a level working field. So much of our manufacturing infrastructure has been literally auctioned off, that it will take a lot of capital and long lead tool manufacturing to simply retool to where we were only a few years ago. It isn't going to happen overnight or even in six months to a year. Manufacturing has been under rated for too long and now everyone thinks we all should be computer specialists when there is already a surplus of them. Simply look at the number of applicants for the few jobs available at Microsoft. We simply need jobs of every type and level but not those underwater jobs that don't pay enough to exist. I am not hurting but I know I could not exist on the entry level pay now being offered to seemingly to everyone. Maybe we need more selloffs and more people hurting so that we can all recognize we all much in common and those crying at the top today need to learn what it is like having what they expect others to accept.
51panheadMessage #752 - 03/09/09 09:06 PMMsg# 747 I camped out like that one time for skynard tickets.
underemployedMessage #753 - 03/09/09 09:40 PMjust before 2006 stocks were reaching new high points on a weekly bases. Then democrat liberals won the house & senate & government spending increased. 2008's election october surprise fannie mae freddie mac along with media drove down the economy & blamed Bush. It's the self fulfilling prophecies come true & B.O. won. IT"S CHANGE ALRIGHT !!! Our change he spends, soon well all need welfare.
underemployedMessage #755 - 03/09/09 09:51 PMBarry Frank how do we find affordable housing now, without work? Greedy government taxation broke the nation. where's my 401k bailout? Oh that's right you thought I was rich. Not anymore, so who will invest in stocks so business can hire now?
A EverhartMessage #756 - 03/09/09 10:46 PMFirst off look up the word "entropy". It is a scientific term which fully describes what the world is experiencing and will give you a clue to what is happening, but I will get back to this. For now ... I love the post by djrick "Unemployment near Depresionary highs". This hits the nail right on the head and I have been telling people this for the last 3 months on other blogs. I'll repost his link because it is a good read moneynews.newsmax.com/streettalk/unemployment/2009/03/09/189868.html When I hear people say, especially on CNBC, that this doesn't even compare to the Great Depression because at the high, unemployment was at around 30% during the GD but it is only 8% now, I almost crap my pants in disgust because it is a flat out lie and disinformation from a bunch of sales people. Yes, they are sales people not analysts. Look before about mid-way into Clinton's term there was a drastic change in how unemployment is figured. We used to figure unemployment by U2 numbers (no not the awesome band from Dublin) but now we use U8 numbers which are grossly underestimated. It is like putting lipstick on a pig. However it is not just the unemployed that counts, but the "underemployed" which are not even tracked. There are way too many people who are only able to hold a part-time job because they can't get anything else. My mother is one of those. She works at Wall Mart getting about 22 hours a week with no benefits, no vacation days and no sick days. Over 90 % of the people that work at her store are part time. That is absolute BS and should be illegal. A business like Wall Mart which is open 18 hours a day (some 24 hours) and is open about 363 days a year should only legally be allowed to have 49% of their employees part time. Other businesses can only get by with part time with no benefits, but not Wall Mart. Back to the point. As far as the Stock Market goes and Warren Buffet, I said as soon as Warren went headlong in late last year that he was premature. People laughed saying that there is no way I could be smarter than Warren Buffet when in reality Warren certainly is not laughing these days. I am a currency trader by profession, and while I am not as wealthy as Warren Buffet I am very astute when it comes to the economy, market psychology, and reading the markets. You certainly do not need to be able to pick the bottom, but you do need to be a hell of a lot closer to it. Frankly I see the DOW going down to the 5200 mark, while potentially hitting the 5000 mark but rejecting. It is impossible to say what is going to happen this year but I do see an almost inevitable economic collapse like nothing we have seen. I see our banking system absolutely crashing and it causing more pain than the Great Depression. However as bad as things will be there is a very good thing about this. It is hard to explain here but science calls it "entropy". When a system (science refers to a living system when using entropy, however reality is that the economy IS a living system) gets overwhelmed it either dies or reinvents itself, hence evolution whether you believe in this or not it has happened in our lifetime and continues to do so whether you believe God causes this, or it happens itself, its a mute point because it happens. Our banking system, not just the US but the World, is going to die! It will reinvent itself and will be much stronger because of it but it will take time. If you study the Great Depression you would find that we didn't start to really pull out of it until the early 50's. It is debated when it started but basically it looks like it was 1927, not 1929 which was the Stock Market Crash, or 1933 which was the banking collapse. If you think we are going to pull out of this recession by the 3rd quarter of this year you are buying into the Government BS. This is going to take a solid 15 + years to get out of and it is going to get much worse. Yes I am putting my money where my mouth is. Most of my money is in the currency markets, however a strong percentage is in Inverse ETFs
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bga4444
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 1:22:27 GMT -5
BGA4444Message #757 - 03/10/09 11:09 AMI once heard that if you took all the money in the world and spread it equally among everyone the rich would have most of it back in six months. Can you hear that sound? It is the sucking of money from the middle and lower classes. We have been losing wage and buying power for years. The top 5 % belittle the rest of us for trying to take your money. Americans do not want a handout they just want a hand. Is a fair wage, a roof over our heads, food to eat and basic health care to much to ask for? The rich fear us taking their money. We fear the rich taking our jobs or paying us so little we cant get by on. The government is corrupt and ineffective. If they could tax the rich and spend the money effectively everything would workout fine. But the Madoff situation speaks loudly to how America is! If a poor or middle class man robs people for what Madoff did he could not post bail it would be so high. If a non politician lied to congress the way Clinton did he would be in jail. If a non politician male hit on young male employees the way our politicians do they would be fired! They would not be allowed to continue to to corrupt the system the way politicians do.They allow these things to happen and go on because they are all corrupt! The politicians must begin to pay for their crimes against America! It is time for Americans to take our country back!
Reason_FreedomMessage #758 - 03/10/09 12:02 PMIf they could tax the rich and spend the money effectively everything would workout fine Yeah and the rich would just get up and leave the country and take thier businesses with them like they have been doing over the past years. Which would leave this country poor. If you think the government should do something to stop them, then I guess you believe in a socialist/communist goverment. I would like to know what kind of countries excel and become succesfull under these types of governments. Russia, Cuba, Italy(In the Stalin era)?
forwhomthebelltollsIMessage #759 - 03/10/09 01:05 PMWhat a pitiful pack of whiners. Some of us are old enough and tough enough to remember actual hard times. Some of you need to get off of your soft arses and get to work. Either get a job (there are still jobs out there, contrary to the news) or get to work trying to change some of the things that your b*tching about. I sincerely hope that the "woe is me" mentality is not indicative of the actual inhabitants of this country. I don't think it is. I recommend you step away from the computer and the television and get out more. This is a great country with a lot of great people. We are susceptible to business cycles. Always have been, always will be. Markets, home values and economies don't go straight up. Sometimes you need to work harder for less money. Sometimes you need to suck it up and do things you don't want to do and never pictured yourself doing. You're not "above" anythig so get over it. You must ALWAYS save a portion of your earnings. You are very fortunate to live in the most free society in the world. Stop whining. Start fixing.
BGA4444Message #760 - 03/10/09 01:18 PMYou know you two are correct! Many politicians stated the rise in the minimum wage would cause unempolyment and the closing of many businesses. Shame on you greedy minimum wage workers for putting us in this mess! You could have survived on $5.15 per hour but nooooo you had to have more! I really hope you enjoy your new found wealth on Reason freedom and Forwhothebelltolls expense.
Kathy Chlamydias Placenta Pond and Chinese TakeoutMessage #761 - 03/10/09 01:26 PMI believe what he actually said was "sometimes you have to suck it up and do things you dont want to do" 5.15 an hour is way better than sitting on your a55 making nothing and then saying woe is me! does anyone actually READ what is written here?
Dummy ThpeakethMessage #762 - 03/10/09 01:48 PMRealities. We are in one macro-economic global entity and going to be increasingly global. This means, we will have to continue to be in the Center of the Capitalist System, not run away from unbridled competition.We have to develop new core competencies which are valued - create a new niche around these and sell leadership after nurturing these around a new viable , revived, capitalist model to successful testing, launch and fruition. There is no going backwards. Review your competencies. Re-engineer after fine-tuning to the new market demands. Place yourself where niche value exists. Stay put for the short to medium term. If this cycle goes bust again. Do exactly the same. Push yourself to re-engineer and come up with niche valued core competencies. No easy world this.
neohguyMessage #763 - 03/10/09 01:52 PMWhy is everyone so surprised by tent cities? I lived in my car for a couple of months in the early 80's recession. Some people lived in them much longer. We would park in primitive camping area, $1.00/day, .25 for a shower. BGA, it sounds more and more like you are hoping to have the opportunity to shoot someone as opposed to actually trying to contribute anything useful during an economic down turn.
BGA4444Message #764 - 03/10/09 02:35 PMI can assure you there is no joy whatsoever in taking another persons life. I really hope it does not come to that. Here in Atlanta we have had what we call woods people for years. Panhandlers, winos, disconnected people from society. They really cleaned em up and got them out of here just before the 1996 Olympics. But now they have returned and are being joined by the throngs of homeless families coming to the big city for jobs or help. The food banks are out. The shelters are full. Americans have been sold out by politicians who are guilty of treason and should be given the appropriate sentence for selling us out. This is truly the darkest days for our once great country. I am truly sadden by all that has happened. It may be too late.
BGA4444Message #765 - 03/10/09 05:54 PMAt 7500 we had big days like this do not get pulled back in. This is caused by short sellers buying stock to take profits. Do not be fooled by this. The bottom is yet to be seen!!!
BGA4444Message #767 - 03/11/09 11:48 AMWhat amazes me a company like Citi can send out a email and it makes the market do what it did yesterday! I guess when Madoff sent out letters on how the firm was doing those people were excited too!
Falling Sky - NotMessage #768 - 03/11/09 12:48 PMThis was a prime example of "Irrational exuberance". Citi's ploy to keep from being dropped from the DOW.
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bga4444
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 1:23:19 GMT -5
ICMT63Message #769 - 03/11/09 12:59 PMAfter reading allot of these posts I thought I would get in on this and post a note. I own a small construction company (small enough that the big guy's looked down on us) that seen this coming about 2 years ago, I was constantly ridiculed for not getting bigger and trying to outdo the competition. Today a lot of those that ridiculed are facing bankruptcy and are closing their doors looking for work with nowhere to go. Got a letter in the mail yesterday that I thought was allot late about contractors uniting, funny how now people want to put aside the greed they had just a short time ago looking out for #1, what will change the cut throat attitude that was there before, once time get good we will all forget this bad time and go back to the same practices we once knew, GREED. I have to admit that I made a lot of mistakes while operating my business like giving in to the employee's every time they whined for more. Tried to build an asset to secure times like this only to be on the verge of loosing everything now. Where are those employee's now? They didn't stick around, they decided to take the knowledge on their own and start their American Dream on to be in now the most desperate times possible in this industry. I will tell all of you that having a job, just a job is a good thing right now, our jobs that only pay min. wage have started to diminish putting a lot of people out. As the owner of a company that didn't profit much from all the time operating trying to compete and not getting hoggish I sit now trying to sell off assets that nobody wants with no income from unemployment or anywhere else and slowly watch my America Dream disappear. People are greedy, bottom line! The do good'ers will not be able to get ahead because greed will step in. I do agree we need to stand up to the greed and the pork that is out there, but how? We elected these individuals that are doing nothing for the working class that supports their income. I say we should let the chips fall where the will and move on from there and wish everyone would learn from their mistakes, I know I will learn from this one!
smallbusinessguyMessage #770 - 03/11/09 07:49 PMA true republican capitalist would have let the financial industry collapse and allow the country to fall into a depression (dog eat dog). Why did Bush start us down this road with TARP?
BGA4444Message #771 - 03/12/09 11:26 AMThe problem is not so much here in America. We could have let them fail. The problem is the rest of the world was already blaming us for the start of the meltdown. Also, we had already told the world you are either with us or with the terrorist. That one statement brought hatred of America to new found highs. So with our international image battered if we let our international banks and AIG fail the press would have been terrible 90% of the world would have really hated us instead of the 75% we currently enjoy. America's new world credo " Freedom to lie, steal, cheat, become Godless,be corrupt,kill babies, and be immoral for all the world". And you know you are either with us or with the bad guys-maybe we are the bad guys. I am no longer sure and it makes me very sad
EEVESTMessage #772 - 03/12/09 12:58 PMLiving through the so called depression of the late 20's and 30's was nothing compared to this period of time. There is not anything in our country to bring it back to life. Destroying our constitution that was set on values of the Word of God, a deception of seventy five years of 59 cent dollar that FDR put in place, destroyed our industrial (factories) by giving the industry to other countries, allowing non citizens to flood the country that started big time with Castro's Cuba take over, giving away the Panama canal to allow a breach in security of our nation and the list can go on and on. But one of the most open blatant compromises made was deceit and greed that borrowing more money will somehow make one rich! The old United States of America is gone and the ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT is here and has NO FOUNDATION TO STAND ON>
Veteran_LenderMessage #773 - 03/12/09 01:08 PMdoes anyone actually READ what is written here? Yes, and a lot of this [thread] is malarky. BGA4444... NEOHGuy commented: BGA, it sounds more and more like you are hoping to have the opportunity to shoot someone as opposed to actually trying to contribute anything useful during an economic down turn. Take that as more than a hint to knock it off. Your comments and those ridiculous !!!!!!!!!! new posts are more than enough. No more talk about guns, weapons, ammo, overthrowing the government or creating chaos using these Message Boards as your venue. You will be banned if it is seen again. Veteran_Lender- Moderator
Veteran_LenderMessage #774 - 03/12/09 01:30 PM$7/hour x 12 hours x 7 days x 52 weeks / 12 months = $2,548 gross, $1,783.60 net. COBRA: $1,000/month, apartment rent including utilities: $800/month. For the (clueless) you who oppose the $7/hour Minimum Wage: currently, a minimum wage earner working a 12 hour day 7 days a week with no annual vacation or sick days grosses a little more than half of what the average household income in America is... which is insufficient to cover average society costs as they are right now. Most employers don't provide these folks with medical insurance or other allowances. Essentially, you don't earn enough to either feed yourself or cover transportation costs. I cannot stress enough for you to grasp more than a Rush Limbaugh perspective on life today and catch on to the grave imbalance that is prevalent in our society. A further reminder that the average Teacher earns less than the average American household income while the average CEO earns more than $7 per second, yet works less hours and invests less labor annually than any minimum wage earner does.
eaglbobMessage #775 - 03/12/09 01:48 PMMaybe enough of these kids who have been spending, spending, spending and living high on the hog will find out that in the long run, only hard work will support you. There are many ways to support yourself, not the least of which is farming, raising chickens, and bartering for services. GROW up kids and learn the bottom line before you need to leap out a window.
BGA4444Message #776 - 03/12/09 02:36 PMEagle BOB I totally agree with you and Vl on the post above you. I too believe if the minimum wage workers would work for 7.00 a hour 7 days a week with no insurance, no vacation, and no benefits then we could compete. VL is very intelligent and I believe we all should do exactly as he says. As a matter of fact I nominate VL- Veteran Lender for president I think he would make a great one!!!!
Kathy Chlamydias Placenta Pond and Chinese TakeoutMessage #777 - 03/12/09 02:45 PMVl message#773. Its about time Thank you!
BGA4444Message #778 - 03/12/09 03:21 PMKc do you ever post your own thoughts in topic form? Just once post something worthy of a discussion so I can light you up like a Christmas tree!
BGA4444Message #779 - 03/12/09 03:23 PMThis thread maybe all crap unlike the other genius rants on market talk but you and VL sure do like to come back and keep it going! Jealous?
JimthespoonMessage #780 - 03/12/09 03:34 PMOne huge difference between this depression and the last Great Depression of the 30's is environmental. We have too many people, and not enough resources. The problems we face are global, and seem, at this time, unsolvable. It was simple to stop DDT, or CFC's. But how do we feed and water 6.5 billion people, and then how do we feed and water 9 to 12 billion people? If environmental doom and gloom is perception only, it still affects the stock market. Anyone with any sense would get out of the stock market and into some form of environmental action. The world seems almost the same, but when you look at the ocean and think that 90% of the world's commercial fish stocks are no longer there, it's not as relaxing as it once was, before we began to see the data.
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bga4444
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 1:24:12 GMT -5
Kathy Chlamydias Placenta Pond and Chinese TakeoutMessage #781 - 03/12/09 03:54 PMBGA444 I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man. Have a nice day.
smallbusinessguyMessage #782 - 03/12/09 04:07 PMThat's a bit harsh. He's just scared and confused like so many others. Uncertainty breeds contempt.
ttttttttttttMessage #783 - 03/12/09 04:17 PMNo shit..............
Wall Street -BasherMessage #784 - 03/12/09 05:00 PMSure wish I could get a summit with the right people this weekend and I bet anyone here I could get the economy in the biggest upturn in 45 days than any country as ever seen . But in this NO POLITICS NONE , No greed from the rich and NO hand outs for the rest . If we Americans would get out of the political game and demand our elected officials do the same RIGHT NOW and the wealthy elite stop worrying they have to give some of there money away and the middle class and poor realize there are no hand outs we could stop this nonsense. I do mean it NONSENSE we are destroying our own country piece by piece ,How stupid of a educated civilization ,country's and tribes and groups have done this in the past and now we are doing to America . Things you can help with ! 1. Stop the political bickering on who is so damn smart the republicans or Democrats ,Answerer , there both at fault so end of that story. 2. Rich stop your finger pointing you allowed this while gaining wealth so stop your whining , Middle class stop personal debt you want to show the wealthy this will do it, stop giving away your money with credit card interest high interest on cars and homes JUST SAY NO . Poor unless medical reasons and if so we the people will assist you in having a quality life that's our duty unless someone thinks there above helping someone in need and if so go away your not an American . Now this summit could be Friday the 13 and by Monday we have a plan and we act on it and get this Country moving in the right direction . I know this could be done I think half the people know this could be also but NO ONE will get off there greedy ,corrupt ,political butts will they ?.
BGA4444Message #785 - 03/12/09 05:55 PMWall st I agree totally! I am in!
smallbusinessguyMessage #786 - 03/12/09 06:58 PMYikes. Forgot about that... it's Friday the 13th tomorrow !! I think I'll just stay in bed. 
FitOneWMMessage #787 - 03/12/09 07:28 PMThis correction is needed. It is about time that those whom over-indulge learn a lesson. Many got too comfortable and made poor financial decisions. Real estate values has been over-inflated for years especially in California. Stupid people are loosing their homes because they should have never purchased it in the first place! One has to take personal responsibility for their decisions. It is more the purchasers fault than the banks. Stocks go up and down based on "mood" if your young leave it there don't touch it!!! it will come back. If your at retirement age and you had stocks then again " You made a poor financial decision". Why would you have money in stocks when your retiring soon??? Shame!!! I have traveled the world and I can tell you that USA has issues - Many Americans are materialistic (they will purchase something to prove to others that they are "somebody" symptom of being insecure); education is terrible!!!, our youth are LAZY, parents are careless. Let me give you an example: I have some friends who just purchased a 320,000 home they drive nice vehicles however, they cannot afford to go anywhere or furnish their home!! I live simple: I own a city condo-(paid off) and a lake home (paid off); while my friends are paying for 4-WALLS and working their butts off, I travel and can go anywhere I want for vacation.
BGA4444Message #788 - 03/12/09 08:56 PMFitone I agree! Well stated!
Veteran_LenderMessage #789 - 03/12/09 09:11 PMBGA... I return to the post because I'm the Moderator. I comment because I like to. Please do not be upset that I perform my function. Regarding the fixing of Wall Street. It is my understanding that we are on the verge of seeing several people brought in for hearings on questionable activities. Setting up quality cases does take time. Consider that the current administration has been engaged less than 2 months. I have faith that a lot of big shooters are about to become sorry for too much of a good thing. A current mandate to alter accounting rules over the next 3 weeks will alleviate some pressure on banks and eliminate excuses for not lending. When companies have access to capital again, we get jobs. The important thing is to keep your eye on the ball and invest as companies recover. Do your homework today, there will be a lot of false starts like these past 3 days of up market days.
smallbusinessguyMessage #790 - 03/12/09 09:38 PMHey VL, what are you using as an indicator to jump into the markets? What would you do if you were sitting on a pile of cash right now?
BGA4444Message #791 - 03/13/09 02:30 PMHey now that the recession is over and everyone is back to work. I believe that because of the massive amounts of money that has been given to Wall st. financial institutions and since there is no one to loan money to all they can do is buy stock. The money has to go somewhere. It is blue sky from here on out for the market we will be back at 14000 before you know it right VL
Scarlet OMessage #792 - 03/13/09 06:38 PMWhat is the code of conduct for these boards? I thought this was a message board where people could discuss their fears, frustrations, anguish, etc. about the coming "probable" recession. Perhaps some people prefer to deal with their fear by discussing possible ways to prepare if necessary. What happened to FREEDOM of SPEECH? It seems that VL moderates all these boards - is he employed by the government. And I don't have any solution to this crisis except bringing back manufacturing jobs like everyone else has mentioned. Although, we could bring back cotton. During the 30's my mom grew up on a poor farm in Oklahoma. 50 lb. chicken feed sacks were sold in different printed cotton fabrics. The fabric was then used to make clothes. All scrap fabric was cut and sewn in squares which were later used to make quilts. I have the quilt squares, which I've sewn together to make a twin-sized quilt. Sometime in the future, if I'm on the farm again, I can hand quilt those squares around the fire on the nights I don't have electricity. Of course, my mother said, "You'd never last a minute on a farm." So, maybe I'll write a book entitled "Happy Days Are Here Real Soon" and make everybody happy.
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bga4444
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 1:25:04 GMT -5
Scarlet OMessage #793 - 03/13/09 07:00 PMWhat is the function of the moderator? I've noticed you moderate on several boards. Are you employed by MSN as a watchdog? And if so, why? What if some people feel better venting their frustrations, fear, anguish about this world as we see it today by preparing for the worse - and being able to discuss it with other people? I thought the topic of this message board was "We Are In a Depression." I did not know I had to come up with ideas for a "win-win", when I can't think of anything right now. We are in unprecedented times, scary times for everyone....What's going on VL? I feel censored and I've only posted one time on any of these boards.
Kathy Chlamydias Placenta Pond and Chinese TakeoutMessage #794 - 03/13/09 07:25 PMIf you go through some of the threads I think it will be easy to see what VL is trying to do. That is to stick with the facts ,not mindnumbing babble. I have not seen any censorship here and I dont think you have to worry about that. This is MARKET talk not opinion talk. What good does it do to sit around trying to convince people that just because we are in hard times everyone is going to freak out and start looting and shooting. If after all that is what you believe then why would you be at the computer? Wouldnt you be out preparing? And if you believe we are finished as a country then why would you still be here when canada is just north of here? He is just trying to put an end to some of the nonsense.Talking about the depression is one thing,shooting off at the mouth about were all gonna die is quite another.BTW I fear the antigovernment militia whackos a lot more than our government. These same people tried to convince everyone in the 90s that Clinton was going to take the country by force,put the military in the streets etc. Funny I havent seen that! Like i said just go through the threads and look for yourself. Have a Great day.
neohguyMessage #795 - 03/13/09 07:35 PMThe title of the message board is "Market Talk with Jim Jubak". The moderators of the message board have permitted this thread to be posted. The moderators have been very lenient, in my opinion, with allowing some of these threads to be posted on a board that discusses various trade strategies concerning stocks and related products like bonds and commodities. Like all message boards there is no freedom of speech. You can't go to a message board about Christianity and family values and start talking about stocks even if you invented a lame spin that tried to tie them together. MSN has many other boards that you can discuss other issues on. There is a politics board and even a board called Everything Else. The Everything Else board has many regular posters and venting fears and frustration might be more accepted there. Even there though you have to observe the rules of conduct. There are many moderators. Some favor certain boards more than others.
BGA4444Message #796 - 03/14/09 02:55 PMThe initial thread, if you care to read it, tells those who care to read it that the market has not hit bottom and things will get worse. It simply tells folks to save their money by getting it out of the market. It is not world end read on and it tells you we will all know when the bottom hits. There will be no question. This post has had over 120,000 hits and the authors of post are 50% higher as VL's Day trader with a third the views. This post is about fear, lies, and emotions which all impact the market. I do not understand what you guys have against this post. I know some posters talk of some crazy things but the garbage can be found on all post here not just this one. I surrender yall win! I refuse to respond to any more personal attacks and I apologize for attacking you guys. PEACE OUT IN A WORLD OF TURMOIL
BGA4444Message #797 - 03/15/09 10:24 AM401 K The single greatest thing to happen to the stock market is now dragging it to the floor. Millions of Americans who otherwise would have never invested in gambling "stock market" jumped into the 401 accounts because of matching co-pay by employers. The employers are now not matching or matching a lesser amount. Also, employees who have lost their jobs are taking the 401 out in cash just to hold them over until they get a new job. The combination of these two events are having a devastating impact on the markets. At 650,000 new lost jobs per month x average 401 account $15,000 = big losses for Wall st. You know things are going to get better someday. The loss of jobs in the middle and lower class will certainly slow at some point wont they? The transfer of wealth to China for junk will stop one day wont it? America cant continue to back terrorist in the middle east by sending money for oil forever can we? Short term solutions there are not any are there? It just looks pretty bleak good stock days or not don't it?
Stay PutMessage #798 - 03/15/09 08:09 PMBGA, here's what I wrote on MSN's post of when we will know the recession is over. What a joke. These people are still deceiving the masses. The people that cry doom and gloom constantly are probably living in doom and gloom. They lost their job. They are in an industry closely related to housing (realtor, sub contractors, mortgage broker) and have seen the cut backs. They are in the financial industry. These people see no hope and think the world is coming to an end. There's people on the other side of the spectrum where they are super busy at work, their company is hiring and can't find the qualified applicants. It just depends on the environment you are coming from. LivinginCali, you couldn't be more wrong. Those of us in the financial sector have a much better grasp of just what's going on, both here and around the world because we work in it every day. I personally deal with lenders and providers from the U.S. to Hong Kong, Europe, etc., and as such have a crystal clear picture of what we are all about to face. As a result of the banks all freezing up their credit, I have had more work than I know what to do with. Every new client who comes to me for funding tells me the same story. They had a commitment letter from their banks, and then had the rug pulled right out from under them. My Private Equity groups (non-hard money), who never got involved with the derivatives scam, are lending almost faster than our government is printing out worthless money. You need to wake up and realize that it's not "if" we are looking at a ten to fifteen year "Depression", it's "when". All of the printing of money, and generally tap dancing of every government from around the world is simply going to result in one thing. Taking what would otherwise be a one to three year depression, and extending it to as much as 15 years by their antics. This is all a feign attempt to rescue the fiat monetary system which is not savable. If I or others say that the sun will come out tomorrow, we are not being optimistic. We are simply stating the inevitable. When we try to warn everyone that a gospel truth full blown depression is actually here, and will become worse on an unimaginable level, we are not "doom and gloom". Instead, we are simply attempting to warn as many people as we can, and thereby do what the cowards in government, and all forms of media are not willing to state, even though they too know that these are the facts. I do not believe that it will become the end of civilization, but it may just be the end of our two party system, here in the U.S..
Mike C4wMessage #799 - 03/16/09 12:06 AMAll that AND the end to the 2 party system!!!!! O my god I may just go out and shoot mayself!!!
BGA4444Message #800 - 03/16/09 06:04 PMPat Robertson yes 700 club Pat said that Christians should start stock piling food. He is very concerned about the third and fourth quarters of this year. Actually stated be ready by September. What is going on in September anybody know? I am very concerned with the governments inability to help the average American. This type of talk could quail the great gains the market has made over the last few days. Wow never thought I would be happy to see November lows, but right now they are even looking good!
I was not here this was not writtenMessage #801 - 03/17/09 12:52 AMThe corporations got us into this mess with their war mongering and blood money. Let them pay for it.
GamblingmanAZMessage #803 - 03/17/09 05:21 PMYes, we are all watching the decline of our wealth/retirement funds. I think I have come up with an answer. I am going to go out and buy cases of cigarettes and Booze. I know that once we hit a point where we are short of food and supplies I will be able to get all those addicted to bring me what ever I need just so they can keep going with their addiction.
Veteran_LenderMessage #804 - 03/17/09 07:26 PMHey VL, what are you using as an indicator to jump into the markets? What would you do if you were sitting on a pile of cash right now? Indicator: Forced inevitability because that's all there is right now. It is impossible to invest in stocks based on factual data because the buying and selling of-- isn't. I watch for a stock that gets heavily traded into a corner, buy it, then sell after hedge funders buy in. I earn off the lift. I'm actually worth more today than in 2007 but have no wages because lenders aren't employed these days, bankers are. I am a resource to a few small business guys because I am as entrepreneurial as I am analytical. The strategy is to stay calm, watch for trends, monitor a dozen popular stocks and buy/sell to generate income. Regarding MSN Moderators... we are asked, it is voluntary, we abide by the Code of Conduct and we don't censor. I delete profanity, veiled profanity, fanaticism and off-topic commentary that taints or destroys a good thread. BGA4444's warning above (taken poorly) was designed to keep a good topic on track. It's too easy to divert a topic into bickering arenas filled with political spin, in-fighting and SPAM. You will find in the long run that my strategy makes Market Talk a pretty nice place to read and write commentary. V_L
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 1:25:57 GMT -5
Tripled355Message #805 - 03/17/09 07:42 PMThe shorts are running for cover and will wipe each other out in the stampede 
BGA4444Message #806 - 03/18/09 11:16 AMPlease do not forget the commercial part of this crisis is just about to hit. When it does the government wont be able to print money fast enough to cover the banks. Just keep buying the financials you will make a mint.
BGA4444Message #807 - 03/19/09 11:50 AMThe Fed announces it is putting $1,300,000,000,000.00 - (1.3 trillion just looks more daunting when posted in that way) in the stock market to artificially brace it up for the oncoming world slowdown. The French are having 200 protest countrywide because things are so bad. I yesterday heard from a man who has a friend in banking who told him one bubble has popped but the problem is there are nine more still to pop. Does any one know the other eight I know one is commercial real-estate. Here in Atlanta we have 16% vacancy in commercial real-estate. So those of you who think this thing is over I have bad news it has just begun!
b brown fridayMessage #809 - 03/20/09 01:39 PMVL- I cannot post on my home computer can you help me?
Crying TreeMessage #810 - 03/20/09 01:41 PMMake No Mistake! We are not in a depression! Those who spent other peoples money and did not pay back are in more than a depression. 90% of the work force is still working and the lazy ones are on government aid. Sounds like a lot of wimps out there with hollow heads.
BGA4444Message #811 - 03/20/09 02:11 PMI will be sure and tell the people I have laid off what you say. I have taken a 20% pay cut along with my fellow workers. The sales force's salary at my company was heavily skewed towards sales bonuses- they made up about 20-25% of our earnings potential. We have not made any bonuses in about 12-18 months. So we are living on a third the pay. You do the math. I have stopped buying anything but non essential items. If restaurants survived off me they would all be out of business. Now we are just one small company but smaller and larger companies all around us are going out of business. Georgia's unemployment rate is 9.3% I have seen NOTHING coming out of Washington to turn the tide. If you think the 90% still employed are not impacted by all this I beg to differ.
jreaMessage #812 - 03/20/09 03:00 PMOh, please. U6 is at 16%. That means that at best, 84 percent who want to work full time are working full time. Now figure in self-employed who may be working but whose business is either not making money or is losing money and the actual unemployment rate is rapidly approaching that of the great depression. Talk about hollow heads, just parroting the "official" government statistic.
broker in albanyMessage #813 - 03/20/09 03:31 PMI am guessing none of the people posting on this site actually lived through the Depression, my parents did, my older clients did and believe me this is not anything like the great depression. What it is is a deep and long recession contained to certain area's of the country. If you want to go along with the chicken little's, we are 2 weeks away from armageddon crowd then sell your stocks, buy gold, guns, ammo and food and move into the nearest cave. For everyone who has not lost their minds and has an investing timeframe of more than fifteen minutes valuations are the cheapest they have been in our lifetimes. If you allow some ill-informed, paranoid, angry person to influence your investment decisions you should probably not be in the market to begin with. Read some balance sheets, tune out the hysteria, there are some incredible values out there right now. Be positive, invest intelligently don't listen to the idiots who have no money who just come on here to bitch and moan and blame the world for their own misery. We got screwed, no doubt but there is a new sherriff in town and the cavalry is riding to the rescue.
ozone7Message #814 - 03/20/09 04:01 PMI am guessing none of the people posting on this site actually lived through the Depression, my parents did, my older clients did and believe me this is not anything like the great depression. How do you know? If this is similar to the depression we are only one year into it, equivalent to about January of 1931. At that point, the market was down a similar percentage to what it is now; I keep the graph on my desk. It took until 1933 for the market to be down 84%. Unemployment did not rise to 25% until 1937. Although there was a nice gain to be had in 1933 if you timed the market bottom exactly right, stocks remained essentially flat for 25 years after that.
BGA4444Message #815 - 03/20/09 05:14 PMHey broker, maybe we can be as " informed " as Warren Buffet was in the last quarter when he lost how much? I believe about 4 billion. Now if somebody as "informed" as Warren can not figure it out regular investors don't stand a chance! All I can say is get out now!
Stay PutMessage #816 - 03/20/09 09:51 PM
In [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics] economics, a depression is a sustained, long downturn in one or more economies. It is more severe than a [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession] recession, which is seen as a normal downturn in the [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_cycle] business cycle.
Considered a rare and extreme form of recession, a depression is characterized by abnormal increases in [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment] unemployment, restriction of [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_(finance)] credit, shrinking output and investment, numerous [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bankruptcies] bankruptcies, reduced amounts of [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade] trade and commerce, as well as highly volatile relative currency value fluctuations, mostly [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devaluation] devaluations. Price [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation_(economics)] deflation or [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation] hyperinflation are also common elements of a depression. broker in albany, that is the definition of a depression. Boy, am I glad that I'm not one of your clients.
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 1:26:49 GMT -5
Stay PutMessage #818 - 03/21/09 04:30 AMdjrick, how dare you come up with facts like these. Don't you know that by you and others constantly reporting these 'facts', you make it extremely difficult for those people who want to call you and others (me) 'doom & gloom'. You can have dibs on doom. I've already called gloom. 
weed wackedMessage #819 - 03/22/09 04:16 AMThe markets have not seen the bottom yet. Inflation on food items will skyrocket soon. Buy all the food you can.
Murphy MartinMessage #821 - 03/22/09 11:17 AMThese labels-- "depression," "recession," etc., aren't necessarily very helpful. This year is awesome for the person who is planning for the long-term. If you can't see the long-term opportunities right now, you're just not trying hard enough. DON'T be that person.
Scarlet OMessage #822 - 03/22/09 03:43 PMSince some people on this board said we should "not worry, be happy" and come up with ideas during these tumultuous times, I thought I'd wait to post until I came up with an idea. During the last depression, my grandmother and friends bought their 50 lb. chicken feed sacks based on the print of the cotton fabric. After they fed the chickens, she used the fabric to make clothes for the family. From the scraps, she made quilt squares which were then used to make quilts for bed coverings. So I say we need to BRING BACK COTTON! Think of all the jobs....bulldozing empty houses to bring back the land, picking and planting cotton, manufacturing cloth, real cotton socks again. BGA in the South - you could be my regional sales manager. Of course you might have to deliver by wagon train, and don't forget your gun! We don't want anyone stealing the chicken feed now do we? I have confidence in you BGA and Stay Put also! If there a few others who may think they are up for this dangerous job, please advise me. Also I'm looking for major investors as we'd have to purchase thousands of acres at rock bottom prices in the near future. We might be able to expand our business to include sheep. Then we can make real wool socks. I still have two pair of thirty-year old wool socks from Lands End. Can't find good socks like those anymore - I'll have to learn how to darn them while I'm making quilt squares. Then we'll need home economics teachers to teach our young people how to sew and cook economically. Pot of beans on the stove, chili, rice dishes, etc. Dishes my mother made on their Oklahoma farm during the depression. And my daddy told me he felt lucky to have an orange and a pair of new socks and shoes - he normally only received hand me downs from his older brothers.
Mike C4wMessage #823 - 03/22/09 11:02 PMbulldozing empty houses to bring back the land You need help. we are going to bulldoze houses to plant cotton...... I think you have spent a little tooo much time with WeedWhack
BGA4444Message #825 - 03/23/09 02:22 PMFour Oakland police are dead today I believe because of hopelessness. The convicted felon's inability to find a job led to depression according to his uncle. When a man can not find work and his only option is death or prison some choose death. This young man decided he would also fight the very ones who put him there. Two Oakland police have never been killed in a day much less four. The tide I am afraid is beginning to turn. These types of new levels of violence will be happening more often unless somebody somewhere comes up with some jobs. Powerlessness and hopelessness are very strong motivators for people to consider and do things that they would not otherwise. Bailout all the banks, buy all the so called toxic, while letting the American people go to crap and getting good men like the four officers killed -GREAT JOB WASHINGTON!!
Mike C4wMessage #826 - 03/23/09 09:48 PMjeez: If you can "spin" that story around to blame Washington, you really have some dark ideas......
Kathy Chlamydias Placenta Pond and Chinese TakeoutMessage #827 - 03/24/09 12:13 PMThis guy was a p.o.s. that was wanted on a parole violation which means he had already commited a crime(armed robbery) and was on parole. which means that he then went and commited another crime(hence the parole violation). Then when he gets caught AGAIN he kills 4 cops. Now the family of this P.O.S. claims he was depressed because he couldnt find a job!!!! The stupidass jerk didnt want a job and thats obvious because of his record. Apparently he had NO regard for anyone but himself! He was a violent thief who preferred to TAKE FROM OTHERS what he wanted. He commited his FIRST crime BEFORE the meltdown! What do you figure his sorryass excuse was then? THIS IS HIS FAULT AND HIS FAULT ONLY,HE WAS A P.O.S. who didnt deserve to live another day!!!! This had ABSOLUTLEY nothing to do with Washington. That is the most incredulous statement I have EVER read. Put the blame where the blame belongs, ON THE CRIMINAL!!
Mike C4wMessage #828 - 03/24/09 12:28 PMBGA would have given him a job baby sitting ......
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 1:27:41 GMT -5
Reason_FreedomMessage #829 - 03/24/09 12:40 PMThe stupidass jerk didnt want a job and thats obvious because of his record Assuming makes your statement just as incredulous.
Kathy Chlamydias Placenta Pond and Chinese TakeoutMessage #830 - 03/24/09 12:49 PMThats not an assumption, THIS IS AMERICA you can make it without killing stealing etc. There are over one million people who are unemployed and guess what? They arent shooting cops.Man I swear this is whats wrong with this country, Nobody wants to use common sense! You cant tell me this P.O.S couldnt get a job ANYWHERE!!!
BGA4444Message #831 - 03/24/09 01:30 PMEvidently you two know just what it is like to be black and raised in Oakland. Right brothers? And just to remind you two California has the highest unemployment in the nation. I did not say it was justified only that hopelessness breeds this type of violence. Hey the stock market is up hope is on way!!
Reason_FreedomMessage #832 - 03/24/09 01:43 PMThats not an assumption So I am guessing he gave a statement stating otherwise or you can read his mind right?
Kathy Chlamydias Placenta Pond and Chinese TakeoutMessage #833 - 03/24/09 01:50 PMWow, maybe you can go to oakland and be on his legal team.
Kathy Chlamydias Placenta Pond and Chinese TakeoutMessage #834 - 03/24/09 01:59 PMHopelessness breeds this kind of violence. I dont want to argue but if that is what caused this then what was the columbine cause? these were rich white people! Sometimes people are just evil. There is no justification for cold blooded murder. But this is america and you have a right to think what you want.I just wonder if it was your dad or brother being buried because of this guy would you be defending him? BTW ther was high unemployment in the 80s in cali,but I still managed to mow yards, clean garages etc, its all about how hard you REALLY want to try.
Goofy GooberMessage #835 - 03/24/09 02:03 PMRon Paul predicts that we are going to go into a 15 yr depression because of the government... www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ee3e07f0-16b2-11de-9a72-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1
ozone7Message #836 - 03/24/09 02:06 PMEvidently you two know just what it is like to be black and raised in Oakland. Right brothers? And just to remind you two California has the highest unemployment in the nation. Not true. Michigan has far and above the highest unemployment at 12.5%. The county I live in has 23.5%. We are already in a depression.
vaultsterMessage #838 - 03/24/09 02:15 PMWe continue to elect the same people......it's always my guy is good the rest are corrupt! Throw them all out and tell the new ones to read the constitution and act accordingly or they will follow those they replaced!
BGA4444Message #840 - 03/24/09 05:19 PMI bet four families in Oakland wished he had a little more hope. Hey I am all for you commit a violent crime you get life or death penalty. You buy or sell drugs you get death penalty. We need to takem out of the gene pool anyway. America has the highest per capita lockup rate in the world. Except your a president and lie to congress. Or your bankers and rip everyone off. Or you are a Wall st. bum running a ponzi scheme Or a congressman excepting bribes Or a gay senator hitting on pages - little sexual harassment for years everyone knew nobody cared. Highest in the world! Martha Stewart excluded she was a real danger. Thank God we can track her while child molesters roam free. Hey " you are either with this great country or you are with the terrorist " it is just that simple.
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 1:28:34 GMT -5
Kathy Chlamydias Placenta Pond and Chinese TakeoutMessage #842 - 03/24/09 05:48 PMYou hit that nail right on the head buddy.
Mike C4wMessage #843 - 03/24/09 06:08 PMThe convicted felon's inability to find a job led to depression according to his uncle. When a man can not find work and his only option is death or prison some choose death. This young man decided he would also fight the very ones who put him there. 2 pages ago
Hey I am all for you commit a violent crime you get life or death penalty.
You buy or sell drugs you get death penalty. We need to takem out of the gene pool anyway. 2 pages later??? First quote, the poor guy couldn't get a break. We drove him to murder. Second quote you want to kill the poor bastard. Make up your mind, would you...
BGA4444Message #845 - 03/24/09 07:10 PMMInd is already made up. All and I mean all American citizens should be given shelter, food and a basic education along with healthcare. We do live in the greatest country on earth-right? I also believe that all 19 year olds should serve in the military for minimum two years. Then on to college, work, or whatever. Most of us Americans are lazy spoiled bratz that mommy and daddy have to continually bailout. I bet you know what I mean don't you KC? Given that kind of start in life you mess it up you got to jail for long time.
Kathy Chlamydias Placenta Pond and Chinese TakeoutMessage #846 - 03/24/09 07:28 PMFor your info buddy I dont have parents. They have been gone since I was 9yrs old. I have NEVER been bailed out by anyone! I Lived in my car when I was 15 until I could save enough money for a MOTEL. then I saved till I could get a house! I felt so alone and hopeless, But I NEVER stole from others or killed cops. If I fall now I still wouldnt have anyone to fall back on jerk! So how about you keep your spoiledbrat comments to yourself. Go ahead and lite that up!!
Mike C4wMessage #847 - 03/24/09 07:31 PMAll and I mean all American citizens should be given shelter, food and a basic education along with healthcare. I go more along the Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness when I think of what Americans should be given, Shelter food an Education and healthcare are things you need to get on your own...
Kathy Chlamydias Placenta Pond and Chinese TakeoutMessage #848 - 03/24/09 07:35 PM Hey Mike, Well what do you expect from a liberal socialist elitist?
BGA4444Message #849 - 03/24/09 08:10 PMSo KC who bailed you out when you were nine? The government, family , friends, or did you make it from nine to fifteen on your own?
BGA4444Message #850 - 03/24/09 08:17 PMHey Mike How about clean air , water , decent food and drug quality ? Think you can get all those on your own too? If it were left up to big business we would be living like the chinese in way much more filth than we do now. You can not have it both ways. Either you need government to level the playing field or you don't. Which way would you prefer it?
Kathy Chlamydias Placenta Pond and Chinese TakeoutMessage #851 - 03/24/09 08:36 PMFor your info from 9 to 13 I stayed at different places. At 13 I started working,doing whatever I could to make money.At 14 after I saved some cash I moved to where I am now. My 1st job was catching chickens for 1.80 an hour. I still didnt steal or kill. BTW I NEVER got any help from the government. Some people have what is called a Good work Ethic, If I dont make enough money then I get off my arse and get another job,BUT I dont use the copout of My poor childhood. YOU AND ONLY YOU make your decisions in life.That is pure B.S. that people rob and kill because of a bad childhood. Do you have any idea how many people in this world have it bad and they dont use any copouts, they just try harder. You know you sure do think awful highly of the same government that you are always downing. Like Mike said make up your mind!
Mike C4wMessage #852 - 03/24/09 11:30 PMWas that decent food & Quality Drugs? ? Might be your problem
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 1:29:26 GMT -5
TerankoMessage #853 - 03/25/09 03:10 AMGood catch mike I need to pay more attention. Pay more attention? You're kiddin' me, right...?!
BGA4444Message #854 - 03/25/09 02:20 PMBureau of labor statistics say in their Feb summary 851,000 jobs were lost I wonder why they prefer to report the 651,000 non farm jobs . I guess it just sounds better!
Reason_FreedomMessage #855 - 03/25/09 02:46 PMMInd is already made up. All and I mean all American citizens should be given shelter, food and a basic education along with healthcare. We do live in the greatest country on earth-right? I also believe that all 19 year olds should serve in the military for minimum two years. Then on to college, work, or whatever. Most of us Americans are lazy spoiled bratz that mommy and daddy have to continually bailout. I bet you know what I mean don't you KC? Given that kind of start in life you mess it up you got to jail for long time. All and I mean all American citizens should be given shelter, food and a basic education along with healthcare Most of us Americans are lazy spoiled bratz that mommy and daddy have to continually bailout. Nice contradiction. Give everybody the things they need, but don't work for them. I wonder how Americans became spoiled? I am guessing from your comment they became spoiled by not giving them everything? Seriously I have not problem with the second quote as long as your willing to pay for it all? Wanting to force everybody to pay for something they will not use(somebody else health care ect.) is endentured slavery if your an adult or considered childhood. I am guessing you want to treat everybody like childeren so they act like it.
BGA4444Message #857 - 03/25/09 05:09 PMDuffminster just posted a thread about foreclosures being through the roof Feb 09 over last year. You ostriches better get your heads out of the ground and wakeup. This thing is not over. It is far from it!
Kathy Chlamydias Placenta Pond and Chinese TakeoutMessage #859 - 03/25/09 05:39 PMWho was that for?
BGA4444Message #860 - 03/25/09 05:41 PMRW better ask for a little less starch in those shirts next time! They are cutting the blood to that pea size brain of yours surrounded by two inch thick cranium! Los Angeles you are living in probably the most liberal state in the union move to Massachusetts it will probably be more to your liking you closet liberal you.
reverendbarbMessage #861 - 03/25/09 05:42 PM Who was that for? Hmmmmm, I dunno....but he don't write too good..... 
dr pumaMessage #862 - 03/25/09 06:03 PMWhy are the feeble-minded forever talking about socialism and liberalism as the great evils when, indeed, we are now looking at corporate welfare on the most massive scale ever witnessed? In fact, are we not looking at what amounts to Fascism insofar as the unholy relationship between big government and big business is concerned? Since when is a mega-billion dollar bail-out not a hand-out and given to those who did not a whit to deserve it? And then they have the gall to go ahead and carry on with their lavish resort parties at the expense of the common men and women of America, not to mention those most insulting multi-million dollar bonuses for doing what? For not just doing nothing, but for doing dirt to their own business! Are the feeble-minded ones so very ignorant or just plain stupid as to defend the Corporate Welfare cheats while heaping scorn on those who hunger through no fault of their own?
BGA4444Message #863 - 03/25/09 06:28 PMYou know dr puma excellent point!!
Veteran_LenderMessage #864 - 03/25/09 07:18 PMSorry guys, Ron from LA was inappropriate. V_L- Moderator
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 1:30:19 GMT -5
BGA4444Message #865 - 03/26/09 11:57 AMHey thankyou VL, Hey you know we are pretty thickskined around here! Everyone normally just fires back. lol
dr pumaMessage #866 - 03/26/09 12:17 PMSince the Depression has just started, how can anyone say this Depression is far better than the last one? Also, try to remember that a lot of people went through the Great Depression without a care in the world. Depressions, like most things in life, are highly situational. Those who are well off find it easy to tell others not to fear or not to worry or to stop whining or to believe in the system. Those who are suffering have their own take on things. Survival is one thing. Dealing with life long scars is quite another.
BGA4444Message #867 - 03/27/09 03:22 PMI have seen nothing coming out of Washington that will help in the two most important areas. First new jobs must start to appear to slow the falling unemployment rate. Second unless something is done to stop the loss of jobs, such as IBM laying off to outsource jobs in other countries. We are doomed.
BGA4444Message #868 - 03/28/09 02:18 PMThe vast majority of Americans are paycheck to paycheck. As more Americans become unemployed more become homeless. Tent cities are popping up all over America. It is amazing to me that some post here refuse to acknowledge what is going on it is bad and getting worse. The average american does not have a dime in the stock market. I do not care if it goes to 14000. People we are in trouble you can not lose jobs the way we are losing them and expect things to be fine. You can not keep sending your wealth to the middle east and China and think things will be fine. The most intelligent and brightest have never worked for the government somebody outside the government is going to have to do something. Bill Gates and Warren Buffet and Boone Pickens get together and do something please.
Stay PutMessage #869 - 03/29/09 02:11 AMThe most intelligent and brightest have never worked for the government somebody outside the government is going to have to do something. Bill Gates and Warren Buffet and Boone Pickens get together and do something please. Sorry BGA, this is even beyond the billionaires control, or input. Warren Buffet's arrogance actually believed that "he" could make some real change in the markets, only to end up losing billions himself. No. This thing is world wide, and that is why even the great Buffet had to admit that the world is falling off an economic cliff and nothing can stop it from happening.
Mike C4wMessage #871 - 03/30/09 11:34 AMI don't know..... My only frame of reference on the great Depression was from my father. He always talked how is mother fed a family of 8 on either 5 cents worth of pasta or beans. Meat was maybe once he week. He said they had the skinniest dog on earth.... This doesn't feel like that to me...... I had steak last night with french wine, I have 2 Lexus (paid off) and live in a nice middle class house. My wife did lose her job in the building downturn and we are dipping into our savings a little because we are to spoiled to down grade our life style but a depression,,,,,, I DON'T THINK SO,,,,,,, Sorry
outaheresoonMessage #872 - 03/30/09 01:26 PMThat is the lightening bolt that has not struck.
The Ponzi scheme of government pensions.
dj: I totally agree. This is completely unsustainable and will eventually collapse the government. The only way out of this mess is through inflation so that they are paying these pensions out with worthless dollars. Hold on to you rear end this will get nasty.
Falling Sky - NotMessage #873 - 03/30/09 01:33 PMThis doesn't feel like that to me...... I had steak last night with french wine, I have 2 Lexus (paid off) and live in a nice middle class house. My wife did lose her job in the building downturn and we are dipping into our savings a little because we are to spoiled to down grade our life style but a depression,,,,,, I DON'T THINK SO,,,,,,, Sorry I hope you are correct but I fear you are not. The great Depression did not happen one night when everyone awoke the next morning to 25% unemployment and poverty but rather was a process. In my opinion we are going through this process right now. The government is desperately trying to intervene and stop the Depression but they are in reality just throwing out the items they think that will help our economy stay afloat. I have no clue if what they are doing will help us or just send us deeper into the Depression as it is way too early to tell. From my point of view even if the bailouts and stimulus programs work they will only be temporary and could actually plunge us deeper into the Depression in the coming months or years. My belief is based on the Hyper-Inflation that will be caused by the massive creation of money supply. When the inflation starts they will have no choice but to raise interest rates to combat it and who knows what the results of that will be on an already weakened economy?
BGA4444Message #874 - 03/31/09 09:27 PMToday the John Hancock building was auctioned off for just about 50% of what it sold for in 2006. It sold for 1.3 billion in 2006 and auctioned off today for 660 million. The commercial clock has begun to tick. The depression will be sent to new lows as commercial real-estate plummets. Do not be fooled by the bear trap of March. April will bring new lows I am sorry to bring the bad news. But the guys telling you everything is rosy has a vested interest in getting your money in the market so they can take theirs out. Be very careful with your money!
Mike C4wMessage #875 - 04/01/09 12:34 AMThe John Hancock building was never worth 1.3 BILLON Dollars...... That was the problem...... 660 million, OK back to reality.. Be prepared for a lot of reality, A depression NO, a correction to where we should be....
Stay PutMessage #876 - 04/01/09 06:01 AMMike C4w. Are you Egyptian by birth? I mean the amount of "denial" that I keep seeing in your posts is staggering. This depression is world wide. It is not only our own country, and our great grand children's' economic futures being flushed down the toilet, but that of the rest of the worlds population as well. This is none of it a matter of interpretation. Read Obama's spending bill, and then see if you still feel so rosy. The main difference between optimism and delusion; pessimist and realists can all be defined by one word...FACTS. I have yet to hear even one true optimist spouting off, as there are no facts to support anyone being a true optimist about anything that this country (and the rest of the world) is now facing, and will be facing over the next 10-15 years.
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 1:31:11 GMT -5
Veteran_LenderMessage #877 - 04/01/09 11:11 AMI have seen nothing coming out of Washington that will help in the two most important areas. First new jobs must start to appear to slow the falling unemployment rate. Second unless something is done to stop the loss of jobs, such as IBM laying off to outsource jobs in other countries. We can't have change unless the roots of what ails us are killed off. I too am anxious for a job market but not if we will fall back into chaos a few months later. Look at the scope of the crisis and the course action to-date. There is no IBM. It sold off hardware, lost software in court and now relocated service off shore. As we reposition for recovery, that will be one corporation barred from re-entry because there's nothing to it. Remember the tangibility aspect in your stock picks.
BGA4444Message #878 - 04/01/09 12:12 PMStay I agree totally but I think the reason rather than denial is a vested interest in people staying in the market. The other reason is very narcissistic things are ok for me then they must be good for everyone. Denial, narcissism, or trying to get people to stay in the market for personal gain is very dangerous. People who have already lost great amounts of money can really not afford to lose more. The largest indicator of when things begin to turn around will be the slowing down of lost jobs this must happen for months to get to a plus jobs economy. At best it will be years before we begin to add jobs again.
EEVESTMessage #879 - 04/01/09 12:15 PMYou know when people get the idea that the process of printing 59 cent paper dollars that has been used since 1933 is sound economy is mind boggling. The Constitution we once had made gold a money standard and all the myths or lies will never make sound money. China is a good example! Until our government helped destroy the free government of China in WW2 by supporting the communist government, their money was one of the most worthless in the world. The only reason today that people think China has any better money is because a dictator form of government says it is. So this puts the United States in dictator status. A wild runaway government for seventy five years says paper is the same as gold and silver. Yes I think in a short time there will be hunger, more sickness and other calmitous conditions world wide as the greedy continue to take control. The one world government is here at last. If you tell a lie and continue to repeat it most people will accept it as the truth. The great promise of education was all and all people needed is going to be put to the test now. Wonder what the taste and nutrition values will be?
Falling Sky - NotMessage #880 - 04/01/09 12:38 PMThe great promise of education was all and all people needed is going to be put to the test now. Our educational system has become nothing more than government indoctrination. As much emphasis is put on social and political correctness as actual academics.
BGA4444Message #881 - 04/01/09 02:22 PM742,000 jobs lost in March. Revised 700,000+ jobs lost in February. At this rate the jobs lost in 2009 will be between 8 and 9 million. But hey things are great for those still employed! The stress from all the unemployment will make the states continue to layoff and cut services. I heard the other day 30 million Americans were on food stamps. I am glad they can get them. I hope there are still some left cause I might need them too! The company I work for in the flooring business has had - 16% 2007 vs. 2006, -24% 2008 vs. 2007, and trending down 24% 2009 vs 2008. We can not stay in business much longer with these trends. We have laid off, cut pay 20%, and cut back in many other ways. We can not cut much else nothing is left. Good luck to you all.
Stay PutMessage #882 - 04/02/09 04:33 AMMaybe the French and Germans will walk out of the G-20 meetings, make an announcement to the effect of the total scam this world economy is, and call the rest of the liars on the carpet. It would definitely cause the total meltdown to be inevitable, and the crash would be extreme, but it would at least help shorten the time that people around the world would have to suffer.
BGA4444Message #883 - 04/02/09 02:29 PMCar makers down in March 09 vs. 08 - Gm -45%, Ford -41%, Chrysler and Toyota both -39%. From all these numbers the most surprising is Toyota. They have made small good cars for years. They do not have the UAW killing them. Can somebody explain to me why they are down as bad as the American automakers? What's up? Our plan is to get the American companies running like Toyota. How will it help? Unemployment news- We only lost about 660,000 in March higher than economist expected. Markets up 200+ pts on the news. First quarter earnings are about to start coming out and Obama will be leaving the G20 summit soon lookout for the drop. Hey maybe I am wrong and the bad news is just fiction. No here is the reason for the upswing the banks are not lending so all this money of ours is got to go somewhere. They are putting it in the market thinking it will fool us into believing this thing is over with. It is not even started the worlds economies are tanking. The middleclass and poor people are getting the shaft. But here is the problem. The middle class and the poor people buy most of the stuff that is sold everyday. All of a sudden stuff ain't selling. Big business enjoy what you have created with your insatiable appetites for more and more and more money. Steal all you can from the government. When that dries up you are out of luck!
megandMessage #884 - 04/02/09 03:11 PMI may sound like an old fogy, which I'm not (quite), but since when is it a "right" to own a home. I did not buy my first home until the age of 37. Before that, I lived in all kinds of rattraps, and at the age of 10, the house my parents "owned" was foreclosed, and all our ratty furniture including our BEDS were taken away--I do feel sorry for the children today; I still remember how it felt to ME, the 10 year old with nowhere to sleep. That was how they did it then, many years ago---and apparently still do in some places. There is this feeling of entitlement and the expectation of instant gratification that we must have everything NOW. And yes, I am a boomer, but I don't remember US having that feeling of entitlement, at least when we were young. If we had to rent, that was fine. If we had to room together or live in a commune, that was fine too. It didn't much matter. I think we will eventually get out of this mess, but it will take time. In the meantime, amidst all the blaming, we'll all have to roll back our expectations of what life "owes" us.
Kathy Chlamydias Placenta Pond and Chinese TakeoutMessage #886 - 04/02/09 04:10 PMTheres your Wall Street attitude!
neohguyMessage #887 - 04/02/09 04:57 PMnews.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerarticle.aspx?feed=OBR&date=20090402&id=9755253 In addition, a growing number of people are relying on assistance for things like groceries. A record 32.2 million people -- one in every 10 Americans -- received food stamps at latest count, the government said on Thursday. It was the third time in the last five months that enrollment set a record. I don't know how we are defining a depression but 10% of Americans receiving stamps is not good.
Stay PutMessage #888 - 04/03/09 01:30 AMWhen the people listened to the con artists, excuse me, I mean elected officials and did not make a run on the banks, I was eternally grateful (and still am). All that meant was that I was able to get all of my money out, minus just enough to keep my accounts open. I knew, and still do, that banks are failing every day, and when the inevitable actually happens, I did not want to hear that old man Potter is offering 50 cents on the dollar. Not with my money. Now they are pulling out all of the stops to get people back into the markets, using every trick in the book as well as making a few up as they go along. All in an attempt to get back some of the losses for the wealthiest entities. Who would be dumb enough to fall for any of this? Well, before you pass judgment, realize that our government is constantly lying to the American people, and they are directly and indirectly trying to tap into peoples fears and greed. "Get in now before you miss the windfall profits!" Sound familiar? Hunker down America. We are in this thing for the long haul.
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 1:32:04 GMT -5
Stay PutMessage #890 - 04/03/09 09:23 PMthey can manufacture and xfer as much electronic money to the banks as they need to handle just about any demands... Joe, they are already printing next to worthless dollars now. A run on the banks, for all of you latecomers who think that you will be able to pull it out and transfer it over to something with value, will be too late by the time that it actually happens. When it is finally stated that the "Emperor has no cloths" (the U.S. Dollar having no tangible value) it will be too late. Even though they can print $100 trillion dollars, does not make the paper valuable, and when that does actually happen, be prepared for $25 + loaves of bread. Now is the time to pull your money out and put it into something of real value...food, guns, gold, etc., while the smoke screen/scam of the U.S. Dollar having value still exists. Once that smoke screen clears, you won't be able to afford anything of value. The cash in your Monopoly game will be worth more.
Mike C4wMessage #891 - 04/03/09 09:55 PMNow is the time to pull your money out and put it into something of real value...food, guns, gold You are starting to scare me.... Not about the economy, About you...
Stay PutMessage #892 - 04/03/09 10:44 PMWell, Mike, you know next to nothing about me, as far as available facts are concerned. On the contrary, there is a wealth of factual data that if not skewed, backs up everything that I have stated to date. So what does this tell all of us about you. You base your decisions on 'your feelings', and clearly not on factual information. You have obviously read little to none of the data on our economy (or the rest of the world), and clearly live off sound bites and the latest talk show host. So, I could really care less as to what you think of me, as you do not know me personally. You have shown us all one thing, though. Your opinion about anything is a waste of everyone's time.
Mike C4wMessage #893 - 04/05/09 12:55 AMI'm sorry they deleted that......could have been interesting
Mike C4wMessage #894 - 04/05/09 01:00 AM Now is the time to pull your money out and put it into something of real value...food, guns, gold That is about all I need to know about you. Pull your money out and buy Food, guns Gold....... do you live in Binghamton? That is about the most irrational, statement I have ever read on this board,,,,,, Sell everything and buy a gun some food and gold...... SICK
Mike C4wMessage #896 - 04/05/09 11:33 AMI guess we should barricade ourselves in, with a gun in our lap, with enough K rats to make it through the dark ages that is coming...... Guard our gold and try to survive........ I don't really see things as being that bad... We have had a bad time, a LOT still are as jobs will lag this recovery, BUT the government has reacted to this crisis & like what they have done or not they HAVE done something... I see the market improving (best 4 weeks since 1938) People are starting to buy houses & other things...mortgage money is becoming available... I feel we will be going into a period of inflation for a number of years. I don't see that as a completely bad thing as long as the fed can control it so it does not get out of hand. Starting off with interest rates near ZERO should make this possible. We will pay off this debt (or a lot of it anyway) with dollars that are worth no where near the dollars we borrowed... The biggest losers will be people on fixed incomes, which is why I am going to put my retirement plans on hold for 3 or 4 years to see what happens.... BUT I see no reason to buy a camo suit and an assault rifle and a big bag of gold bars.....
neohguyMessage #897 - 04/05/09 05:47 PMBUT I see no reason to buy a camo suit and an assault rifle and a big bag of gold bars.....
I agree Mike. I don't know if this current recession will turn out to be a depression. I disagree with a lot of Stay Put's method of logic. I sometimes get the impression from his posts that he thinks the logical outcome of a depression is roaming bands of half crazed "city folk" rushing to the country side to steal his stash of food, guns, and gold. Logically, the current economic situation could very well deteriorate into a nasty depression, or, we might luck out and things won't be that bad. It is illogical, imo, to conclude that economic depression = anarchy. In fairness to Stay Put, I think it is healthy that people learn how to do some things for themselves and have skills to trade for other skills, regardless, if things go really sour or not. It is a good idea to know how to grow things and how to fix things. Everybody hopes they have made the correct decision after making investments. Nobody wants their investment choices to be worthless. Just as people who are investing heavily thinking that the economy is going to improve hope they are correct, so do people that invest in guns thinking that the end of civilization is here. I am not against gun ownership, I own a few myself. I also own thousands of tools (and I know how to use them, and use them almost daily) for building and repairing things. The guns have never left the house except for the occasional target practice with my friends. The other tools I'll probably use almost daily regardless of what happens.
schrizoMessage #899 - 04/05/09 06:09 PMWhen you look at the violence of last week, yesterday and now today I get the feeling there is a lot of desperation out there. Not that this is new but it is piggybacking and more people seem to be willing to take others down with them. I do think people will do what they have to survive and that is why it is so important to give them a way to earn a living. As the benefits run out and the government decides not to give money to the unemployed I don't think we can predict the reaction. People are running out of unemployment benefits but the bankers get their bonuses. If the population were more awake they would and should be pissed off.
Stay PutMessage #900 - 04/06/09 12:09 AMOh, Mikey, where do I begin. First of all, in previous posts, I have clearly stated that I do not believe that there will be a nation wide meltdown of our society. I do, however, believe that with 600,000 to 700,000 people being laid off each and every month, with no real hope of stopping anytime soon, there will be millions of disenfranchised Americans who will demand that they receive the basic necessities of life. There will be no state in this country immune from this actual depression that we 'are' currently in, and with the millions of Americans out of work, out of recourses, and out of hope, I do also believe that the crime rate in this country will increase expo. Yes, I do fully advocate that every American has a constitutional right to defend themselves against all threats to themselves and their property. Let me ask you this, hot shot. When you drive through a "bad neighborhood", I'll bet you lock your doors and keep your windows rolled all the way up. I'll also wager that you don't wait around, seeing how the other half lives, and get through it as quickly as possible. Does that make you or everyone else who does the same thing, paranoid? No, it is simple precautions that a responsible person takes in an attempt to avoid a possible nightmare scenario, that does in fact happen all of the time in this country. I believe in being prepared, not paranoid. I also believe in my right to survive, without having to subscribe to a survivalist mentality. I also stated in a previous post, that for those individuals who do not have enough money to put it into a handful of costly but secure instruments, they might want to instead invest in assault rifles. The DNC will soon try to pass a law making it illegal for anyone to purchase those weapons, and for the smart investor with limited funds, they could make triple + returns on their weapons investments when such a law passes. So yes, I do stand behind my assertion of investing in weapons. Also, take a look at crime stats. Those states that have the most free gun laws also enjoy the lowest rates of breaking and entering incidents in the country. A lock will protect you against honest people, and even some desperate ones. A gun will protect you against everyone else. Storing up food supplies in an uncertain economy, is probably one of the most sane and prudent actions that anyone could possibly take right now. For millions of households, wondering if they will still be employed tomorrow, given the facts of this economic tsunami that the entire world has been engulfed in, might prove the difference between being able to feed their family and having to look for the nearest soup kitchen. Finally. With the way our government is printing worthless money, gold is a sure fire bet against the declining value of the U.S. Dollar. Any broker, worth his or her weight will tell you the same thing. Like I said. You speak out of irrational feelings, not facts.
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 1:32:56 GMT -5
Mike C4wMessage #902 - 04/06/09 12:47 PMDon't tell me what I do in bad neighborhoods. I work in bad neighborhoods, I do volunteer work in bad neighborhoods. I have been involved with Habitat for Humanity for years and have personally had a hand in building 4 houses for deserving people in one of the most run down cities in NY state. (Newburgh) So don't you even begin to preach to me how I behave in impoverished neighborhoods. On the other side I am not anti gun. On the contrary I own quite a few guns. Shotguns & Rifles. I am Pro Hunting and spent many Oct & Nov mornings hunting over a bird dog for pheasants grouse and quail. So I also do know a little bit about gun ownership. I will continue to own guns and believe I do have a right to own them. But when people like you make ignorant statements about going out and putting your money into " GUNS FOOD AND GOLD" you sound like some sort of crazed Rambo style person who is going to hunker down and try to live through the civil strife you see coming. Very childish, harmful words & thoughts. Yes there is unemployment, Yes it will lag the recovery that is coming, and trust me it is coming. Maybe not this week, or this month, or even this year, but it is coming..... I just hope when it comes there are not too many idiots like you sitting around with a gun in their laps and a bucket of gold, wondering why they missed another huge opportunity to make some cash in the recovery they just missed....
Stay PutMessage #903 - 04/06/09 08:31 PMMike, you really do not need to keep proving my point about you, but hey, thanks again.
Mike C4wMessage #904 - 04/06/09 10:51 PMAnytime.....
bfrankMessage #905 - 04/07/09 06:38 AMI think you have Capitalism confused with industrialism. We gave up capitalizm in 1980. And industrialism got us in another depression as of november. A resesion would have cost us this much. And bailouts started over a year ago.
Veteran_LenderMessage #906 - 04/07/09 11:09 AMStay Put... I got your point up front... the banter with Mike C4W was unnecessary. A reminder that this is a public forum and the context of statements can be misconstrued. Protectionism and Fanaticism operate together in stressful times, compounded when there are no ready solutions. Please refrain from gun talk. The gyst of your POV was to prepare for more turbulence and become more self-sufficient. These are great and relevant talk points that should be in play. Thanks V_L- Mod
Valhalla-PhilMessage #907 - 04/07/09 06:56 PMThere is one scenario where guns could be critical. If there is a collapse where we can't buy oil, the cities will become unlivable and the starving people will start to head into the suburbs, then the country side looking for food. Since we import an increasing amount of food into this country, the rural area's will be fed first, followed by the suburbs. This will make city dwellers the most dangerous. Since the police and reserve unit's also need to feed their families, the real law of the land will depend on whether you can defend yourself and your food supply. This scenario was actually discussed on a PBS series where they postulated that it would be deceptively easy to slip into this mode if we lose our energy supplies. Of course we are no where near that point and will likely not even get close. The problem is that this scenario can turn on a dime since most cities have only a two-three day supply of food and gasoline. I don't think the gun buying is signaling a panic, rather a relatively cheap insurance against panic. I also own guns and have never had to use them but there's nothing more pathetic than needing something you could have had but didn't bother with. It's like health insurance, the premiums are a pain but cheap compared to a deadly cancer, for instance. If you don't have the insurance you can't pay for the chemo or radiation treatments. Always better safe than sorry. Finally, it's good to see all the guns and ammo flying off the shelves. That will make the government think twice about voter ire if they try more strict gun laws. That could have had some impact on why even democrats are saying reinstating the assault weapons ban will be DOA on the hill. Personally it was crap legislation that shouldn't have been passed in the first place.
randyp910Message #908 - 04/07/09 07:37 PMThe solution that our government has come up with to this recession is utterly ridiculous.Giving banks and companies money to help them to stay a float and cover their outrageous losses makes no sense.Why would you want to give banks more money to give out more loans to a country that is debt ridden already.If a person can't afford to pay for the house they have the car they have and the credit cards that they have why give them more credit.Houses increased in value at an alarming rate while incomes for average americans stayed stagnant over the past 10 years.The democrats believe that everyone deserves to own a home.The problem is that most lower income families want to live like their rich without having the income to pay for it.The vast majority of this country lives on a paycheck to paycheck basis.They can't afford anything to throw a wrench into their lifestyles.I sit here and watch Obama talk about giving bailout money to banks to help to resume lending.Why?I am a true believer that the way oiut of this wasn't to give trillions to banks and corporations to help get americans further in debt and 13 dollars a week isn't going to stimulate a damn thing.IF the government had any sense they would have put freezen withholding federal taxes from americans and let them pay cash for the things they want or pay down their debt.Let americans dip into their retirement accounts without taxing them or paying a penalty if they are gonig to use the money to pay off current debts.This will still help them in the long run and it will also help banks to get cash flow in again.Give americans a break from funding social security from age 40 to 50 becuase most americans like me have been funding it since we were 18or22 with very little hope that it will even exist when it is time to retire.If so why would we need to have retirement accounts to fall back on when we retire.The govenment takes a percentage of our earnings for taxes and social security but doesn't issue funds to people in the same manner.$1200 a month at age 67 isn't shit when you think of the expenditures that you will incurr from medical, housing and various other expenditures that you will be forced to pay.Our government thinks we're to stupid to have our own money and the democrats figure if they don't have the upper and middle class tax dollars who will pay for all of the lower income and no income welfare mothers who want to have 10 kids because it makes their welfare checks bigger.The responsible people in this country are thrown under the bus to coddle the idiots who don't have the discipline or common sense to either better themselves thru education or live within their own means.No one is giving people like me any handouts I have to work for them so why shouldn't anyone able to,have to do the same.
Stay PutMessage #909 - 04/08/09 02:35 AMVL. point taken. You know, years ago, I sojourned in Florida for about two years. During hurricane season, and especially when one was forecasted to hit, everyone would rush to Pigley Wiggley, and Publix (grocery stores), filling their carts full of food, and then head over to the hardware chains and buy every last scrap of wood that they could get their hands on. They would go home and board up their houses, and then hunker down waiting for the hurricane to hit. Of course over and over again, these "deadly hurricanes" never amounted to anything but a little wind and a heavy rain shower. Over the next few days I would watch people, at house after house, taking down the plywood from their windows, and others who had evacuated, driving back to their homes from where ever they took off to. I thought, 'What a bunch of paranoid morons'. I thought of the total waste of time, resources, and energy they all spent on a little wind and rain. My second and last hurricane season in FL, we were forecasted to be hit with another huge hurricane. For whatever reason, this forecast really spooked my wife, and she continued to hound me to board up our house until I finally acquiesced and went out and got the plywood. Ticked off that these idiots on the news had finally gotten to my wife, and cost me hundreds of dollars in materials, and an entire day of unnecessary work, I sat in our living room ticked off, waiting for a heavy rain shower and some uneventful wind. Like every other idiot, I've been coerced into taking my place with the other mindless sheep. Then it hit! You probably know it as hurricane Andrew. I call it ungodly hell unleashed on earth. Hailstones the size of gulf balls ripped half of our roof to splinters. Water flooding everywhere the eye could see.................................... I'll never look at those people as "foolish Floridians" ever again, because I now realize that I was the fool back then. They are not preparing for the storms that amount to nothing, and pass. They are instead preparing for the Andrews, Katrina's, etc., that destroy entire cities. When they hear hurricane, and see it heading right for them, they prepare. Only the fools, like I was back then, sit back and scoff at those paranoid individuals. Well folks, we have a financial hurricane heading right for us. The likes of which makes Katrina look like a walk in the park. It may pass as some of you purport, but what if it actually hits? When you go through your first real hurricane, then you can go ahead and scoff at people like me.
Getting a riseMessage #910 - 04/08/09 03:25 AMYou want to stop the recession in its tracks? Put massive tariffs on imports. ALL IMPORTS!! Even if they are american owned company's!!That will pay for the unemployment and the massive appetite of taxes for our federal government,and it will force people to buy products made in the U.S.A and new factory's can open and actually be able to compete in the market with products made in the U.S.A ! After all people we are the big consumers. WHY NOT MAKE THE MONEY STAY HERE? But you see the very rich would have to take a little step backwards and that is why it won't ever happen. Greed will always prevail because of the golden rule. HE WHO HAS THE GOLD MAKES THE RULES! Gee I wonder if any politicians are on the take 
BGA4444Message #911 - 04/09/09 11:45 AMWal-mart, Wal-Mart, and Wal-mart set to give the retailers and the market a rise. How about all the other numbers from all the other industries and retailers are they set to give the market a rise? The market analyst are so desperate to report anything positive that they do us a disservice by not reporting all the facts. We need all the info both good and bad to make informed decisions about the market!
Falling Sky - NotMessage #912 - 04/09/09 01:07 PMWell folks, we have a financial hurricane heading right for us. The likes of which makes Katrina look like a walk in the park. It may pass as some of you purport, but what if it actually hits? When you go through your first real hurricane, then you can go ahead and scoff at people like me. Great point Stay Put, What does it hurt to make sure you are prepared for a financial storm? It's not all about Guns, and Gold, but making sure you pay off or pay down as much Credit debt as possible, putting a few dollars aside for emergencies, limiting your risk to the stock market and other speculative investments, etc. If the storm passes us by then what will it have hurt? At the very least you will come out of the storm with less debt but if it does indeed hit hard then you will have a better chance at surviving. So for those that object to preparing could you please explain why?? What exactly are your objections?? Look at this financial crisis as a test of your finances and how prepared are you to weather times like these.
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 1:33:49 GMT -5
Veteran_LenderMessage #913 - 04/09/09 01:49 PMYou know, years ago, I sojourned in Florida for about two years. During hurricane season, Florida is a huge limestone shelf jutting out into a unstable weather arena. Why hasn't it occurred to people to construct massive pyramids out of that material that can be weather-ready when necessary? The fact is that we build our way into dysfunctionality and continue to execute the same wasteful measures, rather than innovate to stability. The statement transitions directly into the financial sector. We have built our way into dysfunctionality but refuse to alter to stability because we like the convenience of a known routine. Wal-Mart... I don't shop there. Credit Cards... I only use reward-givers and pay my balance off monthly to profit from the opportunity. I buy groceries a few times each week and never buy bulk perishables. I wear recycled clothing that no one can tell from new, all my vehicles are either paid for or are 0% financing. In a nutshell, I live economically not frugally and accept all benefits as leverage not enticement. The point is not a "good for [me]" situation, it's fighting bureaucracy and bad business by nipping at the liberties it takes. I would NEVER buy Chinese stuff if I could find an alternative and would do with used if the dollars spent were going back into my local economy or make it myself if the materials were available. These attributes are our guns and ammo that protect and further, not weapons of mass destruction.
BJDRMessage #914 - 04/10/09 04:36 PMThe fact is that we build our way into dysfunctionality and continue to execute the same wasteful measures, rather than innovate to stability. The statement transitions directly into the financial sector. We have built our way into dysfunctionality but refuse to alter to stability because we like the convenience of a known routine. Excellent points, "The devil you know....", is rarely the right path to new solutions or innovations.
Stay PutMessage #916 - 04/11/09 02:13 AMI do hope and pray for the best possible outcome, in regards to our economy. With that said, I am doing my very best to prepare for the worst possible outcome. As I have stated previously, I hold fast to my right to surviving various situations that I may encounter, w/out subscribing to any survivalist mentality. I went out and purchased new tires for my vehicle, and another can of fix a flat. Why? I realize that even new tires can be punctured by various kinds of road debris. I hope that it doesn't happen, but I never want to be on the side of the road with two-four flat tires and only one spare. Three cans of fix a flat take up next to no space, but give me added insurance against the possibilities that do exist. I can't recall how many times I have seen nail ridden two x fours laying in the middle of a highway, and just barely missing hitting one on at least two occasions. Now, I can truly enjoy my driving experiences, because I have taken certain precautions. Boy Scout? Maybe. Survivalist? No.
Mike C4wMessage #917 - 04/12/09 12:28 AMFix a flat? JEEZ this is a financial board!!!! A can of "fix a flat' is about 2 bucks!!!!! Is that what we have been reduced too....... Fix a flat......
BGA4444Message #918 - 04/14/09 06:00 PMGDP for all the industrialized nations are now falling off a cliff. The Baltic Index Duff stated it was off about 2.3%. All that means is stuff is not being produced are shipped at the same level as last year. All the money being handed out by the government is giving the market a bear trap rally. I really can not believe with that much money out there the the market has a day like today. Things must be real bad or it is just a little profit taking on some bad news. First, retail sales was off three times the anticipated drop. It is hard to spin anything positive out of that one. But the Baltic is the real negative news. Hold on folks things are going to get way worse before they get better.
sofa king amazedMessage #920 - 04/14/09 07:59 PMI'd like to nominate Message 916 by Stay Put as the best thing ever written on these doom and gloom boards. It's far more intelligent than everyone predicting exact dates of doom and chaos
Kathy Chlamydias Placenta Pond and Chinese TakeoutMessage #921 - 04/14/09 08:37 PMI second that nomination!
1939sMessage #922 - 04/14/09 09:16 PMI hold fast to my right to surviving various situations that I may encounter, w/out subscribing to any survivalist mentality Stay Put ... a little oxymoronic but get what you mean  I'd like to nominate Message 916 by Stay Put as the best thing ever written on these doom and gloom boards. sofa king amazed ... as always to each his own ... and Chamberlain returned from Germany after his meeting with Adolph Hitler waiving the magical piece of paper that said everything was just rosy (sound familiar?) ... Peace For Our Time. Glasses come in a variety of colors ... and we can all choose our own regardless of the supposedly 'known' facts that influence our decision.  or  Struthio camelus(i) follow the yellow brick road please. So ska (and kc09) you're saying that we're not in a depression? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_for_our_time
Stay PutMessage #923 - 04/14/09 11:15 PMSemper Fidelis, e pluribus unum, caveat emptor, Annuit Coeptis, Novus Ordo Seclorum....OK, that's the gist of my Latin, and yet it is all germaine to the financial crisis at hand.
BGA4444Message #924 - 04/15/09 08:16 PMTwo tidbits. First, home sales reported as up Feb. 09 +4.7% was actually vs. Jan. 09. The real Feb 08 vs. 09 was down 40% Yes -40%. Next, bankrupcy filings for business was March 09 +23% vs. Feb. 09 but vs. March 2008 + 65%. Hey but things are turning around yea right!! Beware bear trap Beware
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 1:34:41 GMT -5
KingTurtleFromCanadaMessage #925 - 04/16/09 10:24 AMHey you guys could always buy a couple of pairs of warm wool long john underwear and a case of insect repellant and move to Canada. You might just beat the rush... 
Falling Sky - NotMessage #926 - 04/16/09 11:26 AMAnd now I recommend you to go home and sleep quietly in your beds."[en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_for_our_time#cite_note-OxQuote-2] [3] Thanks 1939s, I now know the Depression is not real and I will sleep like a Baby tonight! It's my children who may not be sleeping well soon.
Mike C4wMessage #927 - 04/16/09 11:28 AMI like Canada. I almost moved there in the late 70s ( another story) I just don't get that whole Quebec thing. They can't be happy being Canadian??? One of the best quote I have ever heard about Quebec is..... "They had the advantage of an English form of Government, American ingenuity, and French Culture. They wound up with A French Government, English ingenuity, and American Culture...." That says it all.....
Falling Sky - NotMessage #928 - 04/16/09 11:29 AMHey you guys could always buy a couple of pairs of warm wool long john underwear and a case of insect repellant and move to Canada. Are you guys still allowing Americans in or just Islamic militants? What's the economy like in Canada? Are you in a Depression as well??
KingTurtleFromCanadaMessage #929 - 04/16/09 01:17 PMHi Falling Sky Not... no depression in the Province I live in called Saskatchewan...It is a socialist government mostly...it is just a bit stagnant right now but our economy is always a bit seasonal. We have the largest potash mining in the world and maybe the most Uranium mining also. Forestry milling and paper products have been shut down for 5 or 6 yrs. nothing to do with current situations. Lots of jobs, we can't come close to filling them all. Weather in Saskatchewan is very extreme and this winter was top three coldest in last 100 years and this Summer will probably be a scorcher. All in all at great place to live.
KingTurtleFromCanadaMessage #930 - 04/16/09 01:25 PMI've never been to Quebec, that's about 1500 miles plus East of here. They don't have it so bad that's for sure, they are represented in Federal politics. They are a big part of Canada. In the 1970's French was recognized as a Second Language in our Constituent and it has been expensive to have everything done in French/English and is not really well accepted. Other than that it's mostly just another province, AKA a Distinct Society, and those French girls are so hot they sizzle...LOL
KingTurtleFromCanadaMessage #931 - 04/16/09 01:33 PMAnd just like just about everywhere else on this side of the pond it used to be a lot better. Maybe not money-wise but society here has an edge to it that maybe was'nt so apparent in the 1970's or there a bouts...
1939sMessage #932 - 04/16/09 01:36 PMThanks 1939s, I now know the Depression is not real and I will sleep like a Baby tonight! It's my children who may not be sleeping well soon. Falling Sky-Not : perhaps you misunderstood my point, or that I didn't make it clearly. I was simply saying that Chamberlain exhibited the ultimate in naivet· in believing 'spin' and also that like the general media of today played down the reality of the events that were taking place. Basically he lied to the people - he couldn't have been stupid enough to believe his 'piece of paper' from Mr. Adolph meant anything at all. I too fear for our children and our children's children ... are we in depression yes (IMHO) ... are there any even vague signs of real change for the better on any horizon ... no (IMHO). Mike C4w: They wound up with A French Government, English ingenuity, and American Culture...." You just made my day.
Mike C4wMessage #933 - 04/16/09 01:44 PMThanks, I love that quote too. I picked it up about 20 years ago on PBS. They did a train ride across Canada.... It sounds awful, I hate to say it, BUT the French do seem very arrogant everywhere you go in this world.... I don't get why
BGA4444Message #934 - 04/17/09 01:59 PMSouth Carolina just went to 11.4 unemployment equaling the all time state record. I guess things are improving. Businesses gave up 25,000,000 sf of commercial space last quarter. That should help the commercial arm of the banking industry. GE post better than expected profits based on energy output? Citi didn't have a bad a loss as expected. I am sure the new accounting rules really helped all these financial reports. The funny thing is it was the leveraging that got most of these banks in trouble to begin with. Now they are going to leverage against really bad accounting practices this is going to blowup in our faces. It has TNT written all over it. The clock is ticking- tic tock or is it tic tic tic waiting to explode.
BwebmastaMessage #935 - 04/17/09 02:25 PMThe doom and gloom attitude won't help anything. Sure times are tough, but from your first post BGA4444 none of it has happened. NONE. This rioting in the streets, global hunger, tea-party, buying ammunition, and jumping in a bunker attitude some people have is really alarming. The stock market is going back up, things are beginning to rebound in small increments. Sure, the commercial arm is taking a pounding now, as they are going through what the housing market went through already: a flush of all the sub-prime loans, cooked books, etc. in the commercial market. All of the corruption, "fake money", huge debt entities are getting flushed out and quickly. All of the ponzi scheme con-artists are getting flushed too. It's long overdue, and unfortunately a lot of innocent people are getting steam-rolled into this mess. Now, no pretty picture is being painted, by anyone all the way up to the POTUS himself. Times are tight, but jobs do exist. Corporations are hiring, but for skilled labor. Unskilled labor has taken the biggest hit to put that into perspective. Hope for the best, but be realistic and not just go nuts is my philosophy.
Mike C4wMessage #936 - 04/17/09 02:28 PMBWEB Good for you!
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 1:35:33 GMT -5
BGA4444Message #937 - 04/17/09 03:05 PMB web I respect your opinion and I would truly like to put on the rose colored glasses too. However, the problems are so much greater than just the market moving up. Short term that is great. But are you trying to tell me America can return to the boom days of the 1950's or the 1980's. With the exception of food, planes, and weapons we do not produce much the world wants anymore. China owns us right now. If they were to pull their money out we are bankrupt. We have been the world's major consumer for years. Not anymore 30,000,000 of us are on food stamps another 10,000,000 no job. Another six million have quit looking. The illegal's are going back to Mexico cause it is cheaper to live there with no money. The tent cities do exist and for the families losing there homes this is about as bad as it gets. This depression caused by us is world wide. The protest in England, Thailand, and China are real. Your children and grand children are going to be taxed like no other generation with very little in return. As we age and stay alive longer the social security system and medicare/medicade system will break us. I am not negative about today. I work, eat and live very well! I am concerned about the long term ramifications of job loss, trade deficits, and dependency on foreign oil. it is the combination of all these things which will break us. Perhaps the number of multiple shootings recently have slipped by you. Americans are stressed to the breaking point already. Do you think the people who have had loved ones die recently at the hands of a man or woman who was "normal" feel as good as you about this mess. I think not perhaps your world is great and unaffected by all this. You are lucky. I hope God will bless us we will need it.
BwebmastaMessage #938 - 04/17/09 09:03 PMI think you totally missed my point. Did you actually read my post? I did not say a "pretty picture" exisits. There are no "rose colored glasses" here at all, and as I stated no one is saying that it is, all the way up to the POTUS. That's a repeat of exactly what I said. There is no "feel good" but rather I said stay optimistic. What would you have people do? Everyone just feel total despair, throw in the towel, and go crazy? Buy a bunch of guns and revolt? That only adds to the problem, which is pretty bad already. Shootings get by me? I don't think so, especially due to the fact that my sister was a victim of domestic violence back in 2004. I think you are being sarcastic, of course I am very well aware of it. A lot of people who were already over extended were the first ones to jump in that bunch. That's not an opinion, that's a fact, you can google it. I also stated, a lot of innocent people are getting caught up in this mess due to some corrupt practices and individuals. Market climbs and progress is small, I don't see how you could read my post and come to a conclusion that states my world is not effected, and rose colored glasses at all. You stated that the market would drop below 5000, which it hasn't and God help us if it does. Some corporations are hiring people for skilled jobs, and unskilled labor has taken the biggest hit, which are facts as well. These are not opinions either. Of course long term effects are on a lot of minds right now, and rightfully so. That is why planning and long thought out steps are hopefully being put in place instead of some wild cowboys shooting at the moon. Tell you what, go visit some third world countries. For that matter, visit some poor areas around the US. Are you or the majority of people living in those conditions? If not, you are blessed. Bottom line as I said, times are tough, we all have been effected, and I hope for the best. It is what it is, and don't sit around dwelling on negatives. It does not help anything. Any progress in 2009 I am sure is welcomed, and it's not to be argumentative at all.
Veteran_LenderMessage #939 - 04/17/09 09:23 PMThe more I take in about this situation, the more I realize that "money" is the problem and I don't see that changing. How interesting that "money" is being printed in record amounts yet the crisis is increasing rather than leveraging recovery. It is completely obvious that- if businesses hired instead of laid off, the wages of the new hires would revive every sector. Thus, the job losses are a direct cause of the crisis. No business can say that their losses or lost revenues stem from anything else because ultimately, whatever they say will steer back towards paying people to sustain economics. If anything will happen soon, it will be that the people en masse finally throw the entire financial sector off the continent and create a new currency. That may seem far-fetched but it all comes down to the fact that derivatives allowed China to appear out of nowhere and achieve industrial superiority without a comparative to the dollar, instead it utilized a currency to pay its workforce and our dollars to buy our own financial instruments. Notably, until that sticky point of a fake Chinese Industrialization and fake Financial Formula gets Air-Time, we cannot recover because there isn't valid aspects to base recovery on and with.
BGA4444Message #940 - 04/17/09 09:42 PMOh I am sorry I did read your post and I thought it said none of what I posted has happened. Much of the original post was already happening. I will give you the 5000 for now only. What has happened that I missed - that caused the great March come back. The only thing going on was government giving failed businesses a lot of our money. If that money caused the 25% growth then it is a bear market trap. If it didn't cause it then something is happening we are missing. There is just little to be positive about except the market. I am very negative on the US economy long term. The current slowdown of GDP in China is about 33% short of what they need to keep a billion people happy. It the world economy looks very grim right now but here in the US everybody above the poverty level are still ok. The problem is the middle class is disappearing to the poverty side. Have you seen US high school dropout numbers lately? Give us a few more generations of XYZ and next and what will be left here? Oh and what did you say that we should be positive about? The current growth in the market? That will certainly get us back on track!
Virgil SyonidMessage #941 - 04/17/09 09:46 PMGive us a few more generations of XYZ and next and what will be left here? Zimbabwe
Falling Sky - NotMessage #942 - 04/17/09 10:38 PMLots of jobs, we can't come close to filling them all. Weather in Saskatchewan is very extreme and this winter was top three coldest in last 100 years and this Summer will probably be a scorcher. All in all at great place to live I wouldn't talk it up too nice or you just might have a bunch of crazy Americans moving near you soon!  I would be one of them if I could convince my wife to move. I don't know the words to your national anthem though ( O'Canada??) but I'm a quick learner!
Falling Sky - NotMessage #943 - 04/17/09 10:40 PMperhaps you misunderstood my point, or that I didn't make it clearly Sorry 1939s, it was just my lousy attempt at humor.
1939sMessage #944 - 04/18/09 03:34 AMFalling Sky - Not : no problem and no apology needed: I'm afraid that my own sense of humor (like my bank balance) is in a somewhat depleted state and didn't pick up on it. Bwebmasta: I also stated, a lot of innocent people are getting caught up in this mess due to some corrupt practices and individuals. That is why planning and long thought out steps are hopefully being put in place instead of some wild cowboys shooting at the moon. Like many people (shake hands BGA4444) I cannot begin to understand why or more appropriately how you can be an advocate of optimism when an undeniable black chasm stares us in the face. My reasoning for making this statement is extremely simple but I believe it to be incontrovertible and it is this: the entire financial and governmental systems (yes, up to the POTUS who doesn't really run anything himself) are using the same or similar methods of thinking and acting to change things for the better that they used to change things for the worse. I don't for one moment believe that 'the mess' that we all speak of was caused by just some or a few corrupt practices and individuals but by a very great number of corporations and individuals who were given a mandate from the relatively small number of untouchable cliques or power cartels. These groups knew precisely what they were doing and are still doing it, namely taking care of business for their own group benefit and not for the benefit of the country as a whole. These elite groups might be better deserving of the description of being the wild cowboys since the planning and long thought out steps (to recovery) still remain wholly under their control. Do you think the rich and powerful care one fig for this or any other country per se? Do you believe for one moment that they are ready to give up even a tiny portion of their wealth or power? They care only about themselves and have demonstrated that over and over again yet you advocate optimism when it is their planning that will lead to nothing more than increased well-being for the rich and decreased well-being for everyone else. They will keep the motor running of course whilst there is a little gas still left in the tank and then the vehicle that provided the golden egg will be abandoned. Perhaps you believe that these greedy, wealthy, powerful and corrupt ponzi planners will change their spots and suddenly start to care for our country and its people rather than their own pockets? They never have throughout the entire history of our country (and every other) and never will. Now we are faced with (simplistically stated) a house of financial cards without any readable spots printed upon them but the card game goes on uninterrupted, enormous bets still placed. The cards are paper upon which they can arbitrarily place spots of their choosing in an attempt to sustain the unsustainable. The mountain of financial dirt is just waiting to engulf us in a landslide and they pass out shovels to the gullible masses (and the not so gullible hopefuls) as a palliative to buy time during which they can fortify their positions even more firmly. I cannot begin to understand how anyone can be unaware of the utterly enormous size and extent of the quasi-obscured fiscal black hole that exists in the US and the world, how delicately balanced it is, and how it cannot be made to go away by any plans configured by persons possessing the very same ethics and morality as those who created that state of being. Optimism is an opiate that merely obfuscates a situation where strong alternatives are required but real and practical alternatives unfortunately do not appear to exist: we can moan, grown, cry and complain as much as we like but that will accomplish nothing for no one in power is listening. Our forefathers were wise enough to know that and warned us on the dangers of greed and complacency ... is that not the place we are in right now? So, is it best to play with the devil you know and remain optimistic or shoot at the moon. IMHO it is only the option of unwarranted optimism that is either readil
1939sMessage #945 - 04/18/09 03:40 AMcont. ... is either readily or easily available to us. Unless of course ...... (please fill in the blanks according to personal beliefs/hopes/fears/ideas etcetera).
BJDRMessage #946 - 04/18/09 04:11 AMPerhaps you believe that these greedy, wealthy, powerful and corrupt ponzi planners will change their spots and suddenly start to care for our country and its people rather than their own pockets? They never have throughout the entire history of our country (and every other) and never will.  As W once said at one of his fund raising dinners, " Some people call you the elite, I call you my base". Followed by the usual stupid smirk.
tfinbar0Message #947 - 04/18/09 04:42 AMjust what we need a dose of pessimism to lft us our of recession. there is absolute no support for a continued decline other than we can talk ourselves into it. once there is confidence we can build back up the naysayers want to be right and things will either get better or worse or both - but where is the support for that
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 1:36:26 GMT -5
BGA4444Message #949 - 04/20/09 07:03 PMThe truth will set you free. The truth is just starting to come out about the state of our top banks. B o A beat the street by 1100% .44 vs. street estimate .04. Now either someone is lying or someone has no clue as to what they are doing. I believe it is both. But the market knows. The market also knows the results of the stress test as seen by the falling market. Hang on this is going to get bad very bad.
Stay PutMessage #950 - 04/21/09 06:48 PMI do not mean this sarcastically, but it honestly cracks me up when I hear the optimists attacking the facts of our state of the economy, or anyone who tries to warn others about it. These are the same people (I'm certain) who if on death row, would focus their attention on how they get to choose anything they want for their last meal, rather than focusing on the fact that it's THEIR LAST MEAL! They also honestly believe that just by saying that the sun is going to set, will actually make it happen. Shame on us. As if by saying that the sun will either set or not set can somehow change the rotation of the earth. They then attack those of us who try to warn all to go out and start stocking up on lighting supplies, so that you do not find yourself wandering aimlessly in the dark, as being paranoid, delusional, militant, etc.. Whether you lose your job or in this case, lose your whole economy, you do not continue your life in a "business as usual" mode. You may get another job in six months, but what if it took a year, and you just continued with your same old spending habits, and only have enough to cover your lifestyle for six months? But, Hey. At least you were optimistic.
Mike C4wMessage #951 - 04/21/09 07:11 PMHey stay put. The sun IS going to set. Trust me on that.....
Not Soo FastMessage #952 - 04/21/09 07:18 PMThe film [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazing_Grace_and_Chuck] Amazing Grace and Chuck makes reference to the term when the protagonist, Chuck, in his protest of nuclear weapons, is meeting with the fictional [ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_United_States] President of the United States. The President tells Chuck that the First Amendment right to free speech is indeed a cherished freedom and cannot be revoked, but it does not grant him the right to yell fire in a crowded theatre, to which Chuck rhetorically asks "But what if there is a fire, sir?"
BwebmastaMessage #953 - 04/22/09 02:41 AMAmen. It surely will. People just want to argue, and cause a scare. Goodness, it's silly to say that "it's business as usual" or that a fire is not noticed. However, if everyone panics when there is a fire everyone gets trapped and burned up. If you are calm, keep a focus, and actually work on escaping, you have a fighting chance to survive. That's all I am saying, and you guys that are nay saying and doom and gloom should have better common sense than that. We are in a recession, debt is up, job losses are up, crime is up, etc, ok sure. If not being optimistic, but realistic, and think, what would you guys do? What is the correct course of action? Please give some real answers and direction, and not just potshot as some of you seem to know it all. On the flip though, there are some jobs coming, some growth in certain areas, and btw- have we reverted back to living like any third world country? In any respect? No. Get a grip. The way some you talk you would think we don't have running water, electricity, gas, etc for use 24 hours. You do realize some countries only have electricity for 6 hours? Running water for 2hrs? The reality of it is, some things may get worse, some will improve, I am well aware of the difficulties and situations at hand, and I am not succumbing to total panic. Awaiting some real answers bullet pointed or in paragraph form to help us all.
Falling Sky - NotMessage #954 - 04/22/09 04:17 PM"But what if there is a fire, sir?" Then maybe the government set the fire??
Stay PutMessage #955 - 04/23/09 03:50 AMBweb, people like Duff, VL, and many others have stated not just the problems in factual format, but some real hard hitting preparations to take. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. How many times in your life have you heard that? Now more than ever those words are so relevant, given this "world wide" economic meltdown that we all find ourselves in. Panic? No. Calm preparation? Yes.
BGA4444Message #956 - 04/23/09 03:20 PMNew construction starts of housing and multi family units in March fell to the second lowest reading in history. Tracking started in 1959 and the record low was January of this year. The economy is running on one cylinder and the other seven are not firing. Construction is the backbone of this country. Until construction begins to grow again all the rest of the information is a waste of time. I am afraid we will not see any real growth in construction until spring of 2010. America is overbuilt in houses and in commercial property. This situation is spiraling way out of control and I do not see any immediate end in sight.
Mike C4wMessage #957 - 04/25/09 12:08 PMBGA agreed, and until the banks start lending $$$ so people can buy the houses out there now, so that the builders start building more we will be where we are...
Stay PutMessage #959 - 04/25/09 06:36 PMdj, stop. Don't you realize just how damaging it is to the "sun will come out tomorrow" crowd, when you post such dire predictions for our nation from people like Kunstler, Clemente, and others? They NEED to believe in the lies that our government is trying to force feed the populous. I haven't actually timed either, but I would be curious as to which is currently spinning faster. The printing presses spitting out the worthless notes, or the government spin doctors feeding America and the rest of the world a worthless bill of goods.
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 1:37:18 GMT -5
BGA4444Message #961 - 04/28/09 11:02 AMHow many years can America print, pledge, and spend 100% + of our annual GDP? In 2006 GDP was around 14 trillion. If 2008 was about 14 trillion and we are spending more than GDP this is certainly a recipe for disaster! I can not understand how the government keeps telling us we are only spending 20 - 25 % of GDP. Who are they kidding. Inflation is about to go absolutely ballistic. It is time to pull in the reins and let the chips fall where they may. Obama is about to be four and out! Bush will be given credit for putting America in its worst situation ever and then Obama comes in and makes it ten times worse! Congratulations republicans for becoming the men now you invertebrates could not be under Bush! How did you all suddenly grow a spine?
BGA4444Message #962 - 05/01/09 11:55 AMWith one major auto maker down and one soon to go into bankruptcy we are certainly on a course for disaster. The industrial greatness of our country is shrinking right before our eyes. Ford the strongest of the three auto makers also losing sales at a +30% mark can not keep going for long. After two years of double digit sales losses a company begins to lose the economy of scale factor which has kept them all in business for years. Basically they are too big to be able to operate smaller. Also, the government letting these guys sink is the single biggest danger to our security. Think about it, in times of war the auto makers are quickly changed over to jeep, tank, and truck manufacturing plants. The current economic situation is our greatest threat to national security. The start of WWII began just like this economic downturn- world wide depression, nuts come to power claiming social good change, and then bam. The next big one is upon us it will start very subtle and then explode! On a positive note the market is going up no matter what happens If you are out jump in. The government has printed so much money I believe we are seeing inflationary growth in the market which will continue to accelerate.
moonwellMessage #963 - 05/01/09 12:25 PMGet a grip folks -- prosperity is out there to be grabbed (look at the St Louis Fed MZM money supply) -- the key is to find a way to get some of that almost infinite supply of cash, or, at least, figure out where it's going. "Depression" is an individual mental health diagnosis that CAN be contagious. Don't go there, go where the money is and make a game of it!
JROBI27102002Message #964 - 05/01/09 12:34 PMCHINA WILL SAVE THE DAY
Falling Sky - NotMessage #965 - 05/01/09 01:02 PM prosperity is out there to be grabbed (look at the St Louis Fed MZM money supply) Somebody was buying into the Spin Machine of CNBC this morning. I don't see the improvements in the economy to think anything has changed yet. In fact I am seeing signs that things will get worse, not better. Major corporations are going bankrupt, unemployment is still climbing as we are losing about 8 million jobs per year, the banks (who knows) I expect are still in very bad shape, GDP is negative, the housing crisis is still going strong : www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=13283 ; Retail ( Consumer spending) is still way down, and the commercial real estate problem is still coming. The only thing positive nowadays is when Wall street sees companies didn't lose as much as "analyst" thought they would or the GDP didn't drop as much as "Economist" thought it would. Give me some real facts and figures to see signs of improvements and I will gladly jump on the "prosperity" bandwagon but until then I'm staying firmly grounded in reality!
BGA4444Message #966 - 05/02/09 03:00 PMI just finished my company's sales numbers for april. The numbers continue to be so bad it makes me sick to my stomach. One store was down 35% another 18.5%. Now these numbers are expected in this bad of an economy so it is not that surprising. What is really disheartening is the fact that in the last three months at least six of our competitors have gone out of business. They have gone out of business within five to seven miles of our two locations yet still no upswing in business. That in combination with tightening of credit lines from the distributors is making the future look very bleak indeed. We have survived threw a commercial bankruptcy of our largest account. We have survived 75% of our builders defaulting on payments of work done. I just do not know how much more we can take. I am very discouraged and sad.
JStanyerMessage #968 - 05/02/09 06:15 PMUltimately it comes down to the fact that the world economy is in bad shape, very bad shape, but this isn·t the first time. Heck, less than a generation ago world wars destroyed far more than the market. It will recover and it will take time. Will the US economy ever dominate again in the same fashion that it has for the last several decades, well probably not but that·s ok, we can still get back to the point of people having jobs and making a decent living. At that point we need to be smarter with investments and enact legislation to prevent the greed that has complicated this most recent downturn. [ www.investmenttheories.com/] www.investmenttheories.com
rovoMessage #969 - 05/02/09 08:08 PMJStanyer, Please stop posting all over the message boards with the link back to the same website. rovo - MSN Money Moderator
Stay PutMessage #970 - 05/03/09 04:29 AMYeah, JStanyer. God forbid that you put a financial link, like hundreds have, including moderators, on a financial chat board. Or a certain new moderator who has put outright sales pitch links for stocks. Shame on you.
Getting a riseMessage #971 - 05/04/09 02:19 AMWe are in a depression because we no longer have a democracy. It is now a Monarchy! All hail king and queen Obama HA HA HA what a joke! Just a few years after we get crushed by a middle easterner ( just in case no one remembers 911 ) we now have one running our country. The majority, we the people have a better chance of catching the clap in a monastery than getting out of this mess. We need a whole new government real fast! All these rotten crooks on the take that run this country should all be in prison. All these bailouts are a complete joke. This country was built on capitalism not socialism! Screw the government,all they want to do is take your money so the elites can live like royalty. I for one am totally sick of it! We the people need to take back our country before it is to late. We are not majority rules anymore and that will be our demise. Where did we go wrong? Is it because we are so worried about being so politically correct? I say screw it!! Lets get back to Majority rules. Isn't that what a true democracy is?
Stay PutMessage #972 - 05/04/09 10:19 PMBy focusing our attentions on the seemingly unending list of problems, corruption, etc., we will never truly get out of these messes that crush the American populous. The solution is already underway. People across the nation are joining forces like never before, and demanding our economy, our government, and our nation back from the corrupt and greedy.
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 1:40:37 GMT -5
BaobubingMessage #973 - 05/05/09 01:49 AMremember the pension investments which too everything away from our older people more homeless with a higher average age than eight years go. how many trillions of dollars of equity has been removed from the people in the US
BGA4444Message #974 - 05/05/09 09:42 AMThings are so great the European Union revised their forecast from - 1.9 negative GDP to -4.0 for 2009. They also said their unemployment would go to over 11%. The green shoots are just popping up everywhere. I believe a bubble in the market is going to hit very soon. I am not sure when but big pullbacks on consecutive days would be the start. If we have a big negative week get most of your money to safety quickly.
BGA4444Message #977 - 05/06/09 12:02 PMMy compensation plan is off over 30%. I am in the flooring business we are about to cut installer's wages 25% to try and hold. In New Jersey they have cut wood floor installers pay 50 to 75%. I can only tell you this until jobs at fair wages are here the economy is doomed. I heard yesterday a plan for people over 50 - 62 who wish to retire early be given $250,000 - $500,000 tax free dollars by the government. Just think of the positive ramifications. Before you ask I am 50!
reverendbarbMessage #978 - 05/06/09 12:53 PM
I heard yesterday a plan for people over 50 - 62 who wish to retire early be given $250,000 - $500,000 tax free dollars by the government. Just think of the positive ramifications. Hmmm, I'm suspicious that this proposed "program" is just someone's fantasy!!
Stay PutMessage #979 - 05/06/09 04:02 PMBGA, as you well know, the problem with that early retirement proposal, is that $250,000 to $500,000 is not nearly enough for most people in America to actually retire on. It would get some support from certain demographics in this country, but for the vast majority it is reason to panic.
Numero 9Message #980 - 05/06/09 05:03 PMI heard yesterday a plan for people over 50 - 62 who wish to retire early be given $250,000 - $500,000 tax free dollars by the government. Just think of the positive ramifications. Really?!? Is this the answer people are considering? Even if I was 50+ this is a bad idea. Has anyone done the math? What positive ramifications could come from this? Uh, let's see... Estimated @ 40,000,000 Americans working at the age of 50 or over. $500,000 to each to retire on. The American government is supposed to ante up ... $20,000,000,000,000.00... to a retiring community that will no longer be paying income taxes because they don't have income. For those at the age of 50, that's 15 years of missed income tax. And where is this money going to come from? This country is already $11,226,722,517,198.93 www.brillig.com/debt_clock/ in debt to other countries and its people. What's another $20 TRILLION? That's roughly $86,000 each person in America (except the retired community) would have to pay for us to be out of debt. If you think that 40 million jobs opening up for the younger generations is positive, consider that more than half the people over 50 working today are an inch away from forced retirement because they've made their salary cap and companies want to hire cheaper younger employees. That means less income tax paid per new employee. What would someone over 50 do with $500,000? Pay off their debt? Buy a new car? Maybe. Not likely if they're not allowed new income. Clearly it's no longer a matter of someone thinking their way out of a wet-paper-bag.
BGA4444Message #981 - 05/06/09 06:05 PMDo you think they might put some of the money in a bank or the stock market? Kind of like the gov is doing now. Where would the money come from? you ask same place all these trillions are coming from now the printing presses. By the time big brother gets through $500,000 wont even buy one of those cheap chinese cars we all are going to be riding in soon. Do you not think China is going to do the same knockout punch to Toyota,Nissan, and Honda that that bunch did to the American auto makers. Only India can compete with China's cheap labor and technology. We just need the Afgan-**** war to spill over into India and China so we can get fat selling WMDs to both sides.
Misha MichileMessage #983 - 05/07/09 10:42 AMWe are at the beginning of a powerful rally. All the "doom and gloom experts" are wrong, as they always have been.
BGA4444Message #984 - 05/07/09 02:00 PMYou are correct MM by years end the Dow should be approaching 16,000 and the American sky will be Obama blue.
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 1:41:30 GMT -5
neohguyMessage #985 - 05/07/09 02:08 PMI heard yesterday a plan for people over 50 - 62 who wish to retire early be given $250,000 - $500,000 tax free dollars by the government. Just think of the positive ramifications. I will selflessly retire early for 500k.
dr pumaMessage #986 - 05/07/09 02:22 PMWhy is it that the realist-pessimists are able to provide the facts for their views, whereas the unrealistic optimists are unable to provide facts for their own views? Interestingly, psychoanalytic research indicates that depressed people do see life more realistically.
reverendbarbMessage #987 - 05/07/09 03:12 PMpsychoanalytic research indicates that depressed people do see life more realistically. Yeah, I read that too...bummer ain't it??!!
BGA4444Message #989 - 05/12/09 02:58 PMThe rich have always made large amounts of money off the backs of the poor and down trodden. It dates back to the beginning of society. To the start of hierarchy to the monarchs and dictatorships throughout all time. Today in America is no different but our love of money exceeds all greed through all time. In America today we can kill babies for the all mighty dollar/right to choose. We can strip a woman of her award for being honest about how she feels. The leaders can commit acts of lying, theft, and exploit young minds with power for sex. The leaders are so corrupt in Washington how can they effectively lead with this country's best interest in mind. They put in power tax cheats, adulterers, thieves, and immoral persons to watch over the like. It is like giving the keys to the prison to the inmates and telling them to control themselves. I recently ask for the name of one politician who was honest and cares about this country. I was given two Ted kennedy and Ron Paul. I had hoped Obama might be the person to lead our country out of darkness. But I am afraid we are only going further in the wrong direction. When you go to countries to try to get them to change to your way of thinking you end up with two more vietnams. I do not believe we will ever be able to leave Iraq or Afghanistan. You know the lives lost in Vietnam were in vane. If we ever pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan the boys who lost their lives there will be in vane also. But the market is up the big money has seen the bottom come and jumped back in. I am truly glad for when the truth comes it will be to late for them and they will find themselves at a bottom they will never get out of. May God bless us all we will need it.
Mike C4wMessage #991 - 05/12/09 03:42 PMThis little horn (Cathollic Church lead by the pope) tells the Beast (US Government) what to do. OK Scotty!!!! You can beam me up now. I have found very little intelligent life here!!!
schrizoMessage #992 - 05/12/09 03:44 PMSound plausible Outoftheworld. As good as any conspiracy out there. Glad we are a favored nation then.
darvey76Message #993 - 05/12/09 04:08 PMoutoftheworld,I normally just read posts but once in a while I will say something,that time is now. As a Catholic I find your comments offensive.Respect for other peoples beliefs can be a tremendous attribute to ones character,this does not mean you have to condon or accept them it simply means that you are a broad enough person to recognize and deal with things for face value. There are many issues, religion,polatics,race,economics,ecology,ect. All of these require levels of respect for any one persons point of view to be advanced and respected. I hope you can relate to this post. G.B.darvey.
outoftheworldMessage #994 - 05/12/09 04:08 PMMike C4w, your words precede you.
outoftheworldMessage #995 - 05/12/09 04:11 PMdarvey76, The TRUTH cuts like a two-edged sword. Yahweh (.com)
darvey76Message #996 - 05/12/09 04:39 PMoutoftheworld-Didn't mean to cut you brother.Oh and careful with that sword of yours you could put your eye out.
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 1:42:22 GMT -5
Mike C4wMessage #997 - 05/12/09 05:04 PMSo who exactly is the pope influencing? The Executive branch? Did GW have a little talk with Obama and say " NOW BARACK, WHEN THE POPE CALLS YOU DO WHAT HE SAYS" or maybe the legislature. The senators and congressmen all have the Vatican on speed dial so they know how to vote.... Could be the Supreme court..... the pope is the 10th judge... It is truly the most ignorant statement I have ever read on this board. I am not offended... ignorance rarely offends me...
outoftheworldMessage #998 - 05/12/09 05:16 PMdarvey76, I understand that Catholics ignore the Holy Scriptures, but are experts in Child Psychology.
outoftheworldMessage #999 - 05/12/09 05:19 PMMike C4w, How many Catholics are on the US SUPREME COURT? They have majority rule, they make their own man made laws to their own destruction. Your words precede you. Only Yahweh (.com) reveals the TRUTH.
angelqueekMessage #1000 - 05/12/09 05:42 PMOk this is getting silly. Alot of the world's religions are basically evil, but that doesn't mean a follower is evil. I agree that we are living through the Revelations part of the bible. We should all try to help each other, not hurt each other. We are going to need all the help we can get to fight this off. Everybody unite!
Mike C4wMessage #1001 - 05/12/09 05:49 PMAnd there is only 1 thing worse than a fanatic, that is a religious fanatic
BCool2meMessage #1002 - 05/12/09 05:50 PMWell all that needs to be done is to throw more money at it. If there is not enough money then I am sure that our messiah Obama will print some more.
BGA4444Message #1003 - 05/14/09 11:15 AMDo not forget the last time something like this happened 1929 it took 15 years and the start of WWII to actually bring us out of it. The growth was slow and sustainable not rocket like. The market is just creating another bubble to burst based on infusion of trillions of dollars that are not backed by anything. I am afraid the buffoons in Washington have no idea what is about to happen. The controller general was asked on MSNBC what he would have done differently? He stated we should have never let stated income justify loans. Well duh anyone who gave a loan based on stated income should be allowed to fail based on total ignorance.
Falling Sky - NotMessage #1004 - 05/14/09 11:31 AMReal job creation would have been and still is the only way out of this Depression. The government has failed miserably on this front. Bailing out banks & Stimulus money is not creating permanent private sector jobs. IMO that's what WWII did for us it created massive job opportunities.
BGA4444Message #1005 - 05/14/09 02:23 PMFalling you are correct jobs is the only way out. The cutting of jobs for these large companies is a one year operational cost windfall producing extra profits that are not going to be duplicated next year. I have been with a company that did just that closed a branch to save money once it is closed for a year cost stabilize and then it is back to year vs. year with no windfall. They have been cutting jobs for about two years we should start seeing significant lower profits because of the economy of scale losses that are about to occur. I have seen nothing and I mean nothing that the government is doing that has gained one job for us. As a matter of fact the local governments are coming up with ways to tax us that will cost more jobs. The actual economy is spiraling out of control. Every top executive I hear speak says it will be a slow recovery. The market is so out of touch unemployment numbers has no effect. I wonder when it gets to about 11 or 12 percent if the market will notice then?
rovoMessage #1006 - 05/14/09 02:39 PMI was purging the offensive posts by outoftheworld yesterday but I missed the one on this thread. Sorry. It will be removed momentarily.
BGA4444Message #1007 - 05/15/09 05:07 PMEveryone has stopped talking about the swine flu. However, the swine flu is making haste getting to every country on earth. The interactive maps on msn will let you see just how fast it has moved. The kill rate is about 5.5% based on Mexico's numbers. It has spread to South America and is making its way through Europe and Asia as we speak. I am afraid this is going to be the big one. The fact that it is moving so quickly and no one is talking about it really worries me. The death rate for a billion cases would be 55 million equaling the last worst pandemic in the early 1900 s. This will be bad this winter in the northern hemisphere and also bad now as the southern hemisphere goes into fall and winter. This thing will stress the already burdened economy's around the world!
Stay PutMessage #1008 - 05/15/09 05:42 PMOur government looks at this pandemic as a blessing. They want nothing that could actually curb it from becoming a true global pandemic, as this will take the worlds population's mind off of the total economic collapse that is all but guaranteed. If you and your family are facing a real life and death fear from a virus, are you going to focus enough energy on the crooks in our government or the corporations who destroyed the world's economy, and your children's future? Swine flu could not have come at a better time for them even if they tried to plan it.
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 1:43:15 GMT -5
SssjimMessage #1009 - 05/15/09 06:13 PMStay_Put: Our government looks at this pandemic as a blessing. You know, the sad thing is that if it did wipe out the sick and elderly, it would greatly reduce national health costs and the social security burden... but what you are suggesting is beyond sub-human... even for our congressmen...
billdogMessage #1011 - 05/15/09 06:51 PMJust a short note; Our elected elite[ past and present ] took us to these trying times. The elected took to much from the special intrest. The only way for industries to sell their goods on a world market that has a much lower living standard than ours was to take our standard of living down to theirs. We the U.S. are now well on our way to becoming a third world country. If we bring back all of our lost industries to the U.S. it wont matter. The only answer is cheap fuel or a complety new power source for our trucks and autos. The Industerial rev. was only possible because of cheap fuel. If you dont think that fuel is important ask dick chaney. In the time that he was vice president, haliburtion done very well. The private gas and oil wells that the vice pres. drilled for himself are producing very well. I dont know this but i would image that all of that good Iraqi crude oil that never missed a days production was probaly hauled very safley away by the super tanker U.S.S. Conde Rice Owned by the old man Bush. I would say that our fuel was safe in their capable hands. I just wished they would have paid for some of the war effort. We might not be so bad off. Thanks
BGA4444Message #1012 - 05/16/09 05:30 PMI just read one of the most stupid ideas yet on solving the housing crisis. The answer was let a million immigrants in who could buy a house come in and do so.. Hmmmm lets see no job no hopes of getting a job who will finance them ? Oh I know Indy mac with just stated income they buy their homes. Then with no job, sign up for welfare and food stamps and enjoy the American way of life in 2009. If we are down to this then God help us. It was absolutely the most ridiculous article I have seen so far!
Falling Sky - NotMessage #1013 - 05/16/09 06:53 PMIt was absolutely the most ridiculous article I have seen so far! It must have been bad because there has been some real winners out there. It seems that any of us could qualify to be a journalist. They all take the government at their word when it comes to financial reports and seem to not have the time to verify any sources. They are no worse than the general public though. Most people I know seem to be in denial when it comes to the Depression we are in. Most still hold unto the belief that things will turn around this year but when asked to give some reasons for their beliefs they can only quote what the government is saying. As for the immigrants a lot of the housing mess we are in right now was because they were allowing immigrants ( Illegal's) to purchase homes and to get credit cards ( I believe Bank of America was encouraging this). If you really want to end the Depression then just deport all of Congress out of the country along with their Lobbyist & Bank pals.
BGA4444Message #1014 - 05/16/09 07:35 PMYou know falling the worst part of the article is it was on the MSN homepage.lol Hey maybe we can get ROVO_COP or BIG BROTHER VETERANLENDER to police the MSN homepage as well!
Falling Sky - NotMessage #1015 - 05/16/09 10:17 PMHey maybe we can get ROVO_COP or BIG BROTHER VETERANLENDER to police the MSN homepage as well! I don't think MSN is up to their standards that's for sure. They run a fairly tight ship! I would trust the news a lot more than I do if those two were watching over them! Actually maybe we can make them the 4th branch of Government and we can have them moderate Congress! How about it Rovo & VL, think you might be up to the job?
mlsjapan07Message #1017 - 05/19/09 03:38 AMdjrick: I guess all those million dollar homes they were buying cut into their budget. Are they still going to stop Sat. mail delivery? That's pretty serious, as it will mean more work put on less workers.
BGA4444Message #1019 - 05/21/09 12:12 PMJapan's GDP after the first quarter is a annualized -15%, exports from Asia are down 28%, Germany has posted its worst GDP drop on record, Greenspan says the banks need more capital, all this information along with the Fed re-guessing a much lower fall in American recovery to me does not imply things are getting better. It all implies to me things are really starting to get worse. The biggest part is the world economy it can be great in America but if the rest of the world is still falling off a cliff they eventually will take us with them. I do not see things improving at all does anyone else agree?
Falling Sky - NotMessage #1020 - 05/21/09 11:44 PMI do not see things improving at all does anyone else agree? I agree. One question I have is how long and deep does a Recession have to last before they call it what it really is, a Depression? I see no possible recovery ( in the economy, not the stock market) for at least another year at the earliest and even then it will take some time to create the 20 million jobs (8 million lost + another 8 million to go + all the new people that enter the workforce every day) that will be needed to return back to normal. Recovery may just take a lot longer than the downturn did. Sure ruins the next decade for me!
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 1:44:07 GMT -5
BGA4444Message #1021 - 05/23/09 03:59 PMFalling you bring up a good and valid point. The number of new employees entering the workplace each month is never discussed. The truth is never discussed never. You know the funny thing is the social security dept could tell us the real unemployment numbers but noooooo. We certainly would not want real unemployment numbers would we?
SssjimMessage #1022 - 05/23/09 05:46 PMFalling Sky - Not: in the economy, not the stock market That is true... we all know that those two are no longer related to each other...
Veteran_LenderMessage #1023 - 05/24/09 12:21 AMThe number of new employees entering the workplace each month is never discussed A local dry cleaner will press your interview suit for free if you are unemployed. I was in there today, owner said NO ONE has taken him up on it. Regular customers joke that NO ONE has had an interview in months. I hear that in every job sector.
BGA4444Message #1025 - 05/26/09 02:11 PMThe largest drop in home prices on record. Home prices have fallen to 2002 prices and economist say no stabilization is in sight. Deflation was rampant in the 1930's because no one had money. Today many have no money but most things are going up not coming down. Wages are falling for those who still have a job. I hate to be the bearer of really bad news but there is a diminishing returns point for raising prices and we are about to hit it. Americans do not just need jobs they need good paying ones. Hmmmmm lets see workers are waiting later to retire, new high school and college graduates are hitting the job search scene. Yet the economy is cutting 600,000 jobs per month. The market is still off over 40%. Wealth has been removed from Americans from falling home prices with no end in sight. Great depression II is here, alive, and doing quite well thank you.
neohguyMessage #1027 - 05/31/09 03:30 PMShould any of you wish to see a town after an economic collapse then visit Gary, Indiana. I've been through there a couple of times in the past ten years. Although I live and feel somewhat comfortable in various urban settings, I was not comfortable in Gary. This is what out sourcing does to our country.
Arrow of TimeMessage #1028 - 05/31/09 03:51 PMShould any of you wish to see a town after an economic collapse then visit Gary, Indiana. I've been through there a couple of times in the past ten years. Although I live and feel somewhat comfortable in various urban settings, I was not comfortable in Gary. This is what out sourcing does to our country. Here's an interesting [ sharala.blogspot.com/2009/01/gary-indiana.html] link about Gary, Indiana...but I can tell you, even when I was a kid (many, many years ago) it wasn't a place you'd want to go...that whole steel mill area was a mess even in the old days...but...they did give a lot of people jobs (I worked there for a time too) but between the really antiquated facilities, the unions ($80k+ base pay as a crane operator many years ago and up to 13 weeks vacation too)...and...all the pollution into the Lake...well we know where most of the steel is made now, huh....
neohguyMessage #1029 - 05/31/09 04:04 PMGreat link Arrow. I was watching a show called "Life after People" on the History channel. They showed how great architecture could be destroyed after a couple of decades of no maintenance (they featured Gary as an example). Back in the 60's and early 70's I remember Gary as being a tough town but not any tougher than some of my native Cleveland neighborhoods. But you worked there and would know more since I only visited. When I drove through the last couple of times, I had that sense of "danger, be careful, leave". I think you know what I'm describing.
Arrow of TimeMessage #1030 - 05/31/09 04:27 PMYea, you're right it looks like it's gotten a lot worse there now...when I was young I'd go just about anywhere there, but when I look back at it all now, sometimes I wonder what I was thinking then...I have a young relative that's in law enforcement there, and last time I saw him when I was visiting the area I told him I'd like to go and see the old neighborhood, but that I was afraid to go anywhere near there...he said, naw you could go there and you should do it...but my conclusion was that he could do it, since he was 20 something, (and had a badge and a gun), but no way I was brave enough to even drive through there, at least at night....
JTColoradoMessage #1031 - 05/31/09 07:02 PMRecession or depression...sounds like a good policy to help at least one family member who faces losing everything. Pull together; protect that nest egg; protect that credit, etc. By letting one family member "move in", you could greatly alleviate problems that extend to other family members. Grown-ups need to set the example. "Stop being selfish & do what needs to be done!" should be our new battle cry.
Veteran_LenderMessage #1032 - 05/31/09 08:43 PM"Stop being selfish & do what needs to be done!" should be our new battle cry. Along with that "Stop fueling the selfish to undo what has been done." Stop patronizing big businesses and businesses that still pay salaries but needed our bail-out funds to stay afloat. Every single working person should be paid hourly now, it let's us clearly see where all the monies are leaking from.
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 1:45:00 GMT -5
robinann100Message #1033 - 06/01/09 12:45 AMI totally agree. My savings are gone, due to high medical bills, Social Security does not cover even rent. Medicare- forget it. The Dr.s raise their prices and I am still stuck paying a high out of pocket co-pay. I really don't know how the younger generation is going to be able to survive? They live on next to nothing now, rent is so high you need 3-4 room-mates just to cover basic rent. And thats before any families are started. I just don't know what is going to happen w/ the next generation of retiree's. 
schrizoMessage #1034 - 06/01/09 12:51 AMThey evolve.
ComoKateMessage #1035 - 06/01/09 04:28 AMI'm down to less than 25 hours a week now, I'm signed up with three temp agencies that are virtually deserted ( they have said they've never seen things this slow in their entire history) and there is *no* hiring to be found in my field ( I'm a dental hygienist with 27 years of experience). I drive a 10 year old car, live slightly over 1 mile from work ( bike trails abound here), steps from a major grocery store, park, and a few restaurants. I have a year's worth of "emergency cash" stashed, and have no debt other than my mortgage. My city taxes have tripled in the last 10 years, but other than that, I have been able to keep my expenses stable and flat. I'm getting by, but just barely.If I do end up losing my job, I am unsure if I would use my "rainy day fund" to try to stay in my home that is decreasing in value, or just walk away and relocate to an area that may offer more opportunities with jobs. It's a painful decision I hope I don't have to make. Minnesota has been among the top ten states in the nation for "massive layoffs" and the effects have rippled throughout all job classes here. I've been making "worst case scenario" plans with people I graduated with 30 years ago ( in Detroit no less!). We are offering home/shelter to anyone that finds themselves without. It could be any of us. We are also anticipating banding together as we retire, with room-mates/house-mates much as we did when we started life as young adults. All of us have skills,talents,knowledge and drive. We intend to keep each other floating. It may not be "evolving", but we will adapt and survive...
ComoKateMessage #1037 - 06/05/09 03:15 AMDJrick, I've been in Minnesota 25 years now. I'm in the dental field and we have people putting off treatment because they've lost their jobs/insurance and cannot pay ( you have to basically lose all of your assets to qualify for medical assistance, and many private dentists won't accept it because it does not cover the cost of treatment...different rules than the medical field!). I know a nurse who has told me people are skipping *chemotherapy* sessions due the the inability to pay! Were you aware that some county/state jobs here have been "outsourced" ? That's right, if you call Ramsey County Social Services, you may get someone a world away ( though they were "smart" enough to tell them to use "American" sounding names). This is a fact. Government jobs, paid for by citizen's taxes, are being outsourced. The money flows out and is never seen in our local economy again. Not only that but sensitive information , names, addresses, dates of birth, social security numbers, telephone numbers, case information, etc, is being shared with *non-residents* a world away. Why isn't our local news covering this?? Of what use is the "news media" anymore, anyway?? Last week, channel 9 morning news reported our roads were "7% less congested due to road improvement!" What a coincidence that the lessened congestion is *exactly* the same number as our current unemployment figures for the state. I work with the public and we have people come into our clinic daily,telling us everything going in in their lives.The news is grim.This state, like the rest of the nation, is hemorrhaging jobs.
ungenteelMessage #1038 - 06/05/09 03:30 AMThe employment situation is unremittingly grim and shows absolutely no sign of improving. As someone who has worked steadily for more than 40 years, and now find myself unemployed .. let me say that I understand. It reminds of of a forum I read a few days ago, where the question was .. would Obama be re-elected ... I laughed out loud thinking about dimwit republicans saying not to worry ... they would give give tax breaks to the rich ... and all would be well
Solar2009Message #1039 - 06/05/09 08:49 AMThe money flows out and is never seen in our local economy again. Not only that but sensitive information , names, addresses, dates of birth, social security numbers, telephone numbers, case information, etc, is being shared with *non-residents* a world away. Why isn't our local news covering this?? Of what use is the "news media" anymore, anyway??
The media are not saying anything about this because they too are outsourcing. X-rays are being outsourced to be read overseas. This country is being hijacked by wall street who are anti labor and anti American. They don't care if the unemployment goes to 50% as long as the companies in the stock market are making money. Just watch them celebrate another bad unemployment number. These people don't work they just trade the market and don't care about real workers. There needs to be reform on wall street or this country is going down the drain faster then most people realize.
Falling Sky - NotMessage #1040 - 06/05/09 01:01 PMAs I read through the posts on here it is becoming painfully obvious that our country is no where near the "turn around" the government economists and government controlled media (My Opinion) are just spinning the truth and manipulating the numbers to make the people think that things are getting better. This week I had the painful misfortune to watch a friends business taken away by the shopping center management. He has been forced into bankruptcy after being in business for 15 years. He owned a flooring business and I assume the downturn was just too much for him to survive. It was the third business to fail since January in our strip mall and across the street there has been seven stores that have closed. When a small store closes not only do the employees lose their jobs but in many cases they are not even eligible for unemployment. I am baffled by how the media reacts so positively to a report that says we only lost 621,000 jobs last month! I am grateful ( but skeptical) that the rate of job lost is declining but this is still well over 7 million jobs a year we are losing! On top of that I read that we need about 125,000 new jobs per month just to maintain status quo due to all the new people constantly trying to enter into the work force. That's an additional 1.5 million jobs per year, while not lost but certainly needed. Sorry folks, my only conclusion is the Depression is alive and well.
Falling Sky - NotMessage #1041 - 06/05/09 01:05 PMThere needs to be reform on wall street or this country is going down the drain faster then most people realize. Hopefully this will not be taken as a political statement ( because it is, but I believe relevant) but the only answer I see is for us to demand term limits on our Congress! Congress makes the laws and they have become so arrogant that they are ignoring the citizens of this country. Wall street is firmly in control of Congress! ( Only My Opinion)
ComoKateMessage #1042 - 06/05/09 07:19 PMThe labor statistics do not include job/wage losses by the self-employed, under-employed ( hours involuntarily cut, which includes me ) or those that have just "given up". They also fail to include people just joining the job market ( think grads, former retirees and stay-at-home moms),and people working as temps due to the inability to find permanent work ( my dauughter is one). If those numbers were factored in, as they were in the 1930's,we would have the same unemployment rate found during the original Great Depression.
BGA4444Message #1044 - 06/11/09 11:54 AMWe have closed our smallest volume location where I have been working. We have signed a new lease in a better area. The landlord desperate to rent gave us 35% off what they were getting for the store and four months free rent. We have just been getting by for the last year. I have been working six days a week for 50% less money. I am fifty and very tired but I pray this move will help us. I had a discussion with the owner this move will either make us or break us. If any of you could say a little prayer for our new store. Myself and the other few employees will certainly appreciate it. God bless us all
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bga4444
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 1:45:52 GMT -5
pstallone1Message #1045 - 06/11/09 01:49 PMThe labor statistics do not include job/wage losses by the self-employed, under-employed ( hours involuntarily cut, which includes me ) or those that have just "given up". They also fail to include people just joining the job market ( think grads, former retirees and stay-at-home moms),and people working as temps due to the inability to find permanent work ( my dauughter is one). If those numbers were factored in, as they were in the 1930's,we would have the same unemployment rate found during the original Great Depression. As I read through the posts on here it is becoming painfully obvious that our country is no where near the "turn around" the government economists and government controlled media (My Opinion) are just spinning the truth and manipulating the numbers to make the people think that things are getting better. This week I had the painful misfortune to watch a friends business taken away by the shopping center management. He has been forced into bankruptcy after being in business for 15 years. He owned a flooring business and I assume the downturn was just too much for him to survive. It was the third business to fail since January in our strip mall and across the street there has been seven stores that have closed. When a small store closes not only do the employees lose their jobs but in many cases they are not even eligible for unemployment. I am baffled by how the media reacts so positively to a report that says we only lost 621,000 jobs last month! I am grateful ( but skeptical) that the rate of job lost is declining but this is still well over 7 million jobs a year we are losing! On top of that I read that we need about 125,000 new jobs per month just to maintain status quo due to all the new people constantly trying to enter into the work force. That's an additional 1.5 million jobs per year, while not lost but certainly needed. Sorry folks, my only conclusion is the Depression is alive and well. Correct and correct, at what point will the average american see through the spin and rhetoric? Unfortunately those who have a modicum of insight and understanding, see through the BS. I heard heard it said that americans are the dumbest traders in the world. sadly it seems to be true.
angelqueekMessage #1046 - 06/11/09 03:48 PMThe real unemployment rate is estimated to be 25% factoring in all of the people ComoKate included on 6/5. This is definitely a depression, worse than the last one if you ask me. Just wait until the bottom really falls out this fall. Believe me it's coming; the government can't fake it much longer. God bless everyone except the jerks causing all this (ie Wall Street and world bankers).
Home in MilwaukeeMessage #1047 - 06/11/09 03:52 PMI have been reading these threads for awhile now: first at work during slow work days and at lunch and now since I've been layed off. It's really frustrating that there is nothing out there in my field right now. I have sent out only 4 resumes in the past three months for similar structural engineering positions. This past week I sent one out for a draftsperson position, considered an entry level position with someone carrying my degree. So far no callbacks. It is frustrating to see what people in the media are considering an uptick in the job market. Reducing the layoffs from 650,000 to 350,000 is not bottoming out. SOMEBODY still has to be around to do the basic day to day stuff! I don't blame Obama for this (I've seen a lot of opinions that do). My problem is very little of the proposed new construction can get banking approval for a loan. It put me in the odd position of supporting TARP funds while being fundamentally opposed to them. I was hoping that those funds would trickle down for private lending. Instead they are being paid back because the executives don't like their cut in pay. Some of us would gladly take the cut in pay just to get back to the office.
pstallone1Message #1048 - 06/11/09 05:12 PMI have been reading these threads for awhile now: first at work during slow work days and at lunch and now since I've been layed off. It's really frustrating that there is nothing out there in my field right now. I have sent out only 4 resumes in the past three months for similar structural engineering positions. This past week I sent one out for a draftsperson position, considered an entry level position with someone carrying my degree. So far no callbacks.
It is frustrating to see what people in the media are considering an uptick in the job market. Reducing the layoffs from 650,000 to 350,000 is not bottoming out. SOMEBODY still has to be around to do the basic day to day stuff!
I don't blame Obama for this (I've seen a lot of opinions that do). My problem is very little of the proposed new construction can get banking approval for a loan. It put me in the odd position of supporting TARP funds while being fundamentally opposed to them. I was hoping that those funds would trickle down for private lending. Instead they are being paid back because the executives don't like their cut in pay. Some of us would gladly take the cut in pay just to get back to the office.
I sincerely appreciate your situation, as I have many friends in the same boat. A good friend just had his GM dealership closed down. I was always opposed to TARP funds, without specific stringent guidelines imposed. Voluntary modifications? Obama should be ashamed. Their will be no trickle down to the public. I am all for loan modifications and principle reductions by force, people need a break. the overinflated real estate market, and the PONZI scheme that was the financial sector, has devastated the economy, our politicians allowed banks to destroy all. The only way for the public to benefit, is to have banks help by force. Rebalancing their toxic balance sheets, giving them a clean slate, will not alleviate the mess that is the housing market. Interest rates have to stay low. The Fed will have to continue to buy treasuries, to keep the rates low, this is money better spent for now. Eventually rates will rise, due to gross overspending and the deflated dollar. BUT ITS TO SOON! 80% of all loans right now are refis. Banks are making record profits and able to pay back TARP funds is do to having had a 4.5% - 5% 30 year fixed. Rates are already at 6% plus, refinances will end, banks will begin losing money, they do have to pay a "little" interest on our money. Unfortunately, the public needs to have their balance sheets "rebalanced"` I know multiple realtors, that deal in bank owned properties, banks simply couldn't care less that REO homes aren't selling. Why should they? they have already been compensated for their toxic assets, they are unmotivated to help. I do blame Obama, his plan was reckless and overdone, with little concern for the consequences, his inexperience is showing. The fact that his bailout bill allowing BK's to modify existing loan balances, was shot down by 15 senators, with their heads up the banks collective asses, was an embarassment.
Goofy GooberMessage #1049 - 06/11/09 05:48 PMat what point will the average american see through the spin and rhetoric Well, us "common folk" are starting to wake up to the b.s. but I don't know if anyone knows what to do about it short of getting physical. We keep hearing "vote them out" or "write congress!" but does that really do anything?? I've written Congress so much its ridiculous. All I have for my troubles is a stack of response letters that look more like form letters saying what kind of job they're doing. Who cares! Do something! The only way to shrink this government is to starve them out. And the only way to do that is for the people to cut them off financially. Everyone may have to become unemployed before its over with just to make them stop.. no jobs, no tax revenue...
angelqueekMessage #1050 - 06/11/09 07:41 PMYou don't necessarily have to be unemployed. Just change your W-4 to claim maximum exemptions. They will start losing money fast and won't be able to recoup it since people losing jobs or losing hours won't be able to pay come the end of the year! Once you have no money, the IRS has to declare your tax debt "uncollectable". Let's all do it NOW! We all need to save money for what's ahead.
angelqueekMessage #1051 - 06/11/09 08:02 PMYou can starve them out by submitting a new W-4 with maximum exemptions on it. By the time the end of the year comes around, if you don't have a job or have lost hours, the IRS has to declare your tax debt "uncollectable". We all need to save money for what's ahead, because the government obviously doesn't give a s--t about any of us - just themselves and the bankers and the Bilderberg Group. Obama was hand-picked by the Bilderberg Group, by the way, so we could have "trust" while they completely financially destroyed this country.
BGA4444Message #1052 - 06/23/09 12:01 AMRecession no this is definitely a world wide depression much worst than the 1930!
Falling Sky - NotMessage #1053 - 06/23/09 05:19 PMRecession no this is definitely a world wide depression much worst than the 1930! I'm not so sure this is worse than 1930 (yet) but it is definitely one heck of a recession if it is not a Depression. Nineteen months and the 20th quickly approaching with no positive signs of relief yet re-enforces my thoughts that this is going to be around for a good many years to come. The best I hope for is that things don't get any worse and I fear that it won't take much to send us over the edge. Compared to anything I have experienced in my lifetime this qualifies as a Depression for me. If it is not a Depression then someone needs to coin a term for something worse than a Recession and less than a Depression.
dr pumaMessage #1054 - 06/23/09 05:51 PMIf the more than 30 million American people now dependant on food stamps stood in a line and each person occupied two feet of ground to stand on, then the line would stretch for over 11,000 miles! An additional 15 million people are eligible for food stamps, but they are not receiving them. Yes, the Great Depression II and not so well hidden as they think, assuming they can think at all. By that I mean our so-called fearless leaders who have no good answers for us. The cost in human suffering is truly gigantic but those who are well enough off could care less. Well, someday, it may well be their turn to stand in line because many of those now in line were once certain of their grand position in life. Worship the golden cow of Wall Street, if you want. Just don't be surprised when it falls over on ya!
IndiantooMessage #1055 - 06/23/09 06:01 PMI find it insane that so many people believe we are simply in a passive recession. Less insane that people think we'er simply in a passive depression. We are actually in a Grand Super Cycle or as economists refer to it, (GSC). We count the Unemployed - but onlt those who are receiving Benefits from Unemployment ... where's *the rest* of those people who are still out of work, who's Unemployment Benefits ran out? Simply look to see that Welfare Claims are increasing at dramatic levels! So I guess when Unemployment reaches 19% nationally, the truth would be somewhere in the range of 55% of America out of work. The Great Depression was due to "no money in the bank" which was a Hoax soth the (not so) Federal Reserve could become a reality ... and THIS is the result. Today, there are more businesses closing, more people losing their homes and more Banks actually closing, than in the early 1900s. This is a far Greater Monster. - Note: the crop fields are either flooded or Drought stricken, or damaged by hail and winds. Enter the Derivatives Bubble! - and we've only just begun to see the Second Housing Crisis, as those with Fixed Rates are now losing their homes because they've lost their jobs. You think this "Depression" is passive? Go ask China why they stopped buying Treasury Bonds. They'll tell ya!
gram1946Message #1056 - 06/23/09 06:08 PMThe libraries in our county are even closing for lack of funds.
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bga4444
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 1:46:45 GMT -5
Falling Sky - NotMessage #1057 - 06/23/09 07:23 PMI've seen an additional two businesses close this month within two blocks of us. I'm still baffled by the way people are pretending like everything is normal how the polls still show that people are happy with what is going on in Washington!
morecircusMessage #1058 - 06/23/09 09:38 PMA friend & coworker informed me his brother is worried for his job. His brother lives in a town in Michigan that has 25% unemployment rate.
WaltzInnMessage #1059 - 06/23/09 09:57 PMWe are in a REPRESSION.
rjslrsMessage #1061 - 06/24/09 01:57 AMover 50% Sacramento school kids qualify for reduced lunches. wow Six years ago, I was at a board meeting of our local school district, it was reported that night 48% of the kids were on free or reduced lunches. I don't know what percentage it is now. I am located in the "poor" part of Illinois.
dr pumaMessage #1062 - 06/24/09 03:04 AMUSA FACTORY SHUT DOWNS HIT ALL TIME HIGH OVER ONE-THIRD OF USA FACTORIES ARE NOW PADLOCKED US industrial production down, idle factories at record By Laurent Belsie | 06.16.09 The hum of America·s factories has reached its lowest level on record · again. In May, the factory operating rate fell 0.6 percent from April·s historic low to reach a new record of 65 percent, the Federal Reserve reported Tuesday. That means that slightly less than two-thirds of manufacturers· plants were operating last month · the smallest share in records going back to 1948. The low in manufacturing was mirrored by the entire industrial sector, where capacity utilization fell in May to 68.3 percent, the smallest share in records going back to 1967. Factories lay idle because industrial production fell 1.1 percent from April to May, which was a bigger decrease than the month before. The biggest decline came in automotive products, which fell 5.2 percent in May from a month earlier. Excluding that sector, industrial production still fell a disappointing 0.9 percent. That·s sobering news for investors looking for evidence of a recovery. ·Admittedly, production is no longer declining at the rates of 2 percent-plus seen at the end of last year,· wrote economist Paul Dales of Capital Economics in Toronto. ·Nevertheless, it is clear that both global and domestic demand remains weak and that an actual recovery is some way off.· --From the Christian Science Monitor-- May 2009 This is the worst Depression since the Great Depression. If it keeps up, this will soon be called Great Depression II.
ComoKateMessage #1063 - 06/24/09 04:31 AMMaybe we should call it "The Great Compression" since we are all getting squeezed in so many ways....
FetonaMessage #1064 - 06/24/09 05:58 AMA friend & coworker informed me his brother is worried for his job. His brother lives in a town in Michigan that has 25% unemployment rate. 25%!!! That's terrible 
Veteran_LenderMessage #1065 - 06/24/09 01:14 PMMaybe we should call it "The Great Compression" since we are all getting squeezed in so many ways....
Probably the closest label to describe our circumstance. His brother lives in a town in Michigan that has 25% unemployment rate. Likely, Macomb County is at or closing in on that rate too. Wayne could already be there. Born and raised in and weathered 3 downturns... I've never seen it this bad.
Falling Sky - NotMessage #1066 - 06/24/09 01:34 PMI've never seen it this bad. And that's the point. Unless you are in your Eighties you have never seen anything like this and even then you would have been a child and probably didn't fully understand what was going on. Food Stamps and Unemployment might have replaced soup lines but facts are facts. I'm still waiting for meaningful reforms by the government, still waiting on people being held accountable for this crisis, still waiting on the government to quit hiding the truth from the people but so far, nothing. Just ignore the problem long enough and it will go away on it's own is not a plan of action.
outaheresoonMessage #1067 - 06/24/09 01:43 PMMy neighbor was just hired back as a special ed teacher about 6 weeks ago. He's about 50 years old and retired with a full pension from the state. The state of California told him that if he came back he could keep his pension and get his full salary on top of that! Now we know why California is broke.
Falling Sky - NotMessage #1068 - 06/24/09 04:42 PMNow we know why California is broke. California has more than money problems.
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Unfortunately this time this manipulation transcends our own system and borders. Those of you out there who think we have even come close to seeing the bottom are only deluding yourselves. We still have four to five more years of these loans to follow, and unfortunately the derivatives and CDS attached to them. The derivatives because of their illiquidity and volatility pose far more risk than the actual loans themselves. Additionally, the helocs and other sundry loans (and let·s not forget the commercial mortgages and REIT·S) are to the point of teetering on default or call by the lending institutions based on the continued fall in values. Couple this with credit cards, rising unemployment, and the redemption calls by many who invested in Hedge Funds and are due their money at the end of the year, and you have what??? Add in the influence O·Bama brings (that of an entitlement society), if elected, the fact corp. earnings are going to have to state losses associated with AIG and Lehman, and the true fact that the credit markets have been frozen since December 2007 and you have what??? Carnage come December. 6000 possible, VERY. 
