formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Jun 14, 2013 11:35:03 GMT -5
You know, some abusers are really smart. They can rope in a strong woman, fool all her family and friends, and slowly program her to think she deserves to be abused. The vast majorty of us can be programmed if we run into someone at the right time who has a sufficient level of skill and determination.
But not all abusers are smart sociopaths. Some are just blatantly insecure little boys with spectacular anger issues, who are pathetically easy to spot and easy to leave. But with some women, you can warn them until you're blue in the face, and move heaven and earth to get them out of an abusive relationship, but it doesn't matter, because they'll just find some other guy to slap them around. I'm not going to go and blame the victims, because again, anybody can be programmed, and not matter how easy the other person makes it, you're still responsible for the bad things you do. We know the husband in the OP has a history of abuse because he got caught -- repeatedly. If the woman in the OP has a history of dating abusive guys, the husband being in jail wouldn't necessessiarly change much, because she'd probably bring in another guy just like him. That's not something I'd put in a termination letter, but it is something I'd find out if I were making this decision.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 14, 2013 11:41:34 GMT -5
Disagreement = Debate = Interesting thread on message board!
Everybody Agrees = Butt Numbing Boredom
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 14, 2013 11:46:40 GMT -5
We can disagree. But, if your husband beats you up every week for 10 years, and you stay - you are making a choice. After 500 times, if you still believe that it won't happen a 501st time, then you are a fool. Taht is my line of thinking, too...then again, it has been made clear that I either lack empathy or don't understand...apparently you are in the same boat
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Jun 14, 2013 11:47:34 GMT -5
How appropriate. Just got a text message from DD that one of her BFF got beat up and the guy is in jail on battery charges so I am sitting here crying my eyes out that a 19 yo is going through this. Yes they lived together then she went back home and even my DD said the guy had seemed to started a new leaf. Guess they were wrong. God I hate this, there is way too many of DD friends in need I just want to hug them all and love them all, lot of failings going on around here. It sounds like your DD MAY BE running with the wrong crowd. Some women are so starving for male approval that they never take the time to develop or use their asshole detector. Having a man at all times is more important to them than personal development or making sure the men in their lives are decent people. I wouldn't want my daughter hanging out with someone with such effed up priorities.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 14, 2013 11:47:47 GMT -5
I get where Thyme and Former are coming from.
My friend is on his I don't know what number abusive relationship and this has been ongoing since high school.
I feel terrible for him and yes he's a victim but in a decade he's moved from abusive man to abusive man, to abusive man.
He's making a choice to not figure out what's wrong with this picture and fix it. I am sure he does not want to be smacked around/stalked (who would?) but he hasn't clued into how to stop it either.
I certainly hope he does someday. It was really upsetting to see that he had sunk even lower than he used to be. But till he has that epiphany I have to keep my distance. I've known enough of his exes to realize it's not worth making a statement, not for my own safety and especially for my daughter and husband.
The guy in the OP has a 20 year history of escalating violence. It even says in the letter they decided to terminate her after taking his history into consideration.
Abuse is abuse but it's one thing to deal with a one-offer. IT's another to know you're dealing with a person who has 20 years of violence behind him and is on his 21st.
Same with my friend. I was there for the first abusive boyfriend 10 years ago. I'm not going to put myself in that position again for whatever number this one is. History has shown things are only going to get progressively worse.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 14, 2013 11:48:53 GMT -5
Frankly, I'm surprised it never happened to me. I was pretty needy and had fairly low self-esteem. I dated some guys who had some less-than-ideal qualities, but I feel quite lucky that I just happened to never have dated someone who got physically abusive. I think one guy had the potential, and boy did we have a messed-up relationship. He started seeing another girl, and I knew about it, and that was really messed up. And one day I just moved and didn't give him my new phone number or address. (This was pre-cell phone.) Luckily, my new roommate was perfect. We started doing a lot of stuff together, which kept my mind off the guy. Nothing significant - just stuff like "Hey, me and so and so are going to the movies, want to come?" There is another 2 hours I won't be sitting here thinking that maybe I should call him. I did run into him later and realized what a bullet I dodged with that one. I should probably call my old roomy and offer some (additional) gratitude for saving my life.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 14, 2013 11:49:47 GMT -5
Anybody who hasn't been in this situation lacks empathy. Empathy is defined as being able to identify with the problem because you've experienced it or can put yourself in that person's shoes. Now if someone says you lack sympathy....that may or may not be true. I have no idea.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Jun 14, 2013 12:03:26 GMT -5
First off, you should be smart enough to know that the news media isn't in the business of truth. They are in the business of getting splashy headlines and one sided stories. And they generally don't like portraying the Catholic church in a good light if they can avoid it. Secondly, if the diocease did offer her some other postion, or pulled some strings in another diocease, they'd be damn fools to advertise it.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 14, 2013 12:04:06 GMT -5
Frankly, I'm surprised it never happened to me. I was pretty needy and had fairly low self-esteem. I dated some guys who had some less-than-ideal qualities, but I feel quite lucky that I just happened to never have dated someone who got physically abusive. I think one guy had the potential, and boy did we have a messed-up relationship. He started seeing another girl, and I knew about it, and that was really messed up. And one day I just moved and didn't give him my new phone number or address. (This was pre-cell phone.) Luckily, my new roommate was perfect. We started doing a lot of stuff together, which kept my mind off the guy. Nothing significant - just stuff like "Hey, me and so and so are going to the movies, want to come?" There is another 2 hours I won't be sitting here thinking that maybe I should call him. I did run into him later and realized what a bullet I dodged with that one. I should probably call my old roomy and offer some (additional) gratitude for saving my life. From my understanding, it is the daughters of women who have been abused that are likely to accept this. And it is the sons of guys who hit their mothers who tend to hit. (yes sometimes it goes the other way, but not so often) People pick up so much about other people that we never say or indicate in any way. Pedophiles zero in on kids that won't scream and run, abusers zero in on woman who don't leave at the first slap. People just seem to gravitate to suitable victims for their particular failing - in some ways, it's kind of eerie. This exactly what I tell my bff. Her dad hit her mom (don't know the extent but hitting her once, let alone in front of the kids, was too much) and now she takes it. I explain that her daughter is at higher risk of also being in an abusive relationship. Sigh...
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 14, 2013 12:09:59 GMT -5
First off, you should be smart enough to know that the news media isn't in the business of truth. They are in the business of getting splashy headlines and one sided stories. And they generally don't like portraying the Catholic church in a good light if they can avoid it. Secondly, if the diocease did offer her some other postion, or pulled some strings in another diocease, they'd be damn fools to advertise it. I hope if they did offer her something else that was significantly helpful, she wouldn't go to the press and pull this smear campaign against them. I would think this would go away very quietly if they found her another position. Unless, of course, they want to make a big headline about how terrible the catholic church is so (1) the parents at the school will have some illusion of safety and (2) they want to fool her ex about where she may be. That seems like a heavy price for the church and school to pay, so I'm guessing that they didn't do much to help her out.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 14, 2013 12:16:25 GMT -5
First off, you should be smart enough to know that the news media isn't in the business of truth. They are in the business of getting splashy headlines and one sided stories. And they generally don't like portraying the Catholic church in a good light if they can avoid it. Secondly, if the diocease did offer her some other postion, or pulled some strings in another diocease, they'd be damn fools to advertise it. Why would the diocese be damn fools to advertise they helped someone in a difficult situation? I would think they would want to be looked upon as showing compassion.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jun 14, 2013 12:17:14 GMT -5
My mom was like that. Every single relationship she got into was drama and abuse. No matter how much I tried to help her by listening, having her stay with me, getting her therapy, etc. I finally had to say to her (after I started losing my patience with her and she told me I was being too hard on her): "Mom - you have every right to the lifestyle you choose because you are a grown woman. But I have the right to not want this shit in my life as an adult. I had it in my life as a child and I'm not putting up with it any more from you." My final straw was after she wanted me to come to her house to try to get the gun from her druggy/drunk 6'5" psycho BF. Which clearly told me she cared more for him than me. I told her the most I'd do is call the cops to get him removed from the premises and she whined that she didn't want him arrested again. "Good-bye mom!" But I don't get why the psycho abuser in this story isn't in jail. Problems solved all around. Woman keeps her job, her kids get food and the children and teachers/faculty would be safe. I get so sick of hearing how repeat offenders who contribute nothing to society and pulls this kind of crap gets to run free. Where is Sug's little electric chair emote? Zap them! Hey, don't judge me. I come from an abusive family!
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 14, 2013 12:23:54 GMT -5
Because the law states that his infraction is worth only a short sentence of months, not years. If we want to keep him in jail for 10 years, then we need to get some laws changed. We also need to be prepared to deal with a huge influx of prisoners. Maybe we should get all those third-strike pot smokers out of jail, and put all the abusers in jail.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 14, 2013 12:25:34 GMT -5
Actually, didn't the article say he would likely be released in June?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2013 12:25:55 GMT -5
My mom was like that. Every single relationship she got into was drama and abuse. No matter how much I tried to help her by listening, having her stay with me, getting her therapy, etc. I finally had to say to her (after I started losing my patience with her and she told me I was being too hard on her): "Mom - you have every right to the lifestyle you choose because you are a grown woman. But I have the right to not want this shit in my life as an adult. I had it in my life as a child and I'm not putting up with it any more from you." My final straw was after she wanted me to come to her house to try to get the gun from her druggy/drunk 6'5" psycho BF. Which clearly told me she cared more for him than me. I told her the most I'd do is call the cops to get him removed from the premises and she whined that she didn't want him arrested again. "Good-bye mom!" But I don't get why the psycho abuser in this story isn't in jail. Problems solved all around. Woman keeps her job, her kids get food and the children and teachers/faculty would be safe. I get so sick of hearing how repeat offenders who contribute nothing to society but this kind of crap gets to run free. Where is Sug's little electric chair emote? Zap them! Hey, don't judge me. I come from an abusive family! He is in jail, but the school speculated he'd be out by fall and they did not want her working there at that time. While the school did speculate the article clearly stated at the end that he would be out by the end of June. So even earlier than the school thought.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jun 14, 2013 12:26:52 GMT -5
Because the law states that his infraction is worth only a short sentence of months, not years. If we want to keep him in jail for 10 years, then we need to get some laws changed. We also need to be prepared to deal with a huge influx of prisoners. Maybe we should get all those third-strike pot smokers out of jail, and put all the abusers in jail. I'd vote for that! Yes, I know he's in jail - I meant for good. Zap him!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2013 12:28:55 GMT -5
In my personal humble opinion, all the energy she is spending trying to sue the school she should target toward the lawmakers in her city trying to get the law changed.
Instead of choosing to be the face of a victim and suing the school go to your lawmakers and tell them: this is how my life can get fucked up when you do not keep the scumbag behind bars.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 14, 2013 12:29:47 GMT -5
The existence of 'choice' is... muddy, as this page demonstrates. Obviously a choice exists in the most fundamental sense. Unless an individual is being physically detained, (s)he is capable of leaving at will. Beyond that we get into the messy realm of decisions and consequences. One of the reasons I'd tend to side with Thyme is that by positing that 'no choice' exists, we are fundamentally positing that the consequences of choosing to leave, when considered reasonably and objectively, are more grave than the consequences of choosing to stay. A classic example is a man saying, "I have no choice but to keep working at company X." This becomes a hairy issue because (insofar as I'm aware) people who speak out against domestic violence champion the message that there is always a way out. They go to great lengths to inform people of the dangers and to dispel the notion that leaving will lead to greater consequences than staying. In other words, their message is that the consequences of choosing to leave are always bearable. The issue gets muddier still when we consider that choice is subject to perception. A police officer who shoots a man reaching for something in his jacket is typically cleared of wrongdoing even if it turns out the victim was reaching for a cellphone. We accept that the officer had 'no choice' but to act in self-defense. In the same way, we might consider an abuse victim who believes her life will disintegrate if she leaves the abuser to have 'no choice' in leaving him. I suspect this is the sense in which GEL is using the term. However: i) I point out again that one of the primary goals of anti-DV advocates is to dispel this perception, and ii) this definition of 'no choice' starts running afoul of GEL's other claim that "Being a drug user is a choice," since in many cases an addict will remain an addict precisely because in his perception he is either incapable of quitting, or quitting will bring about greater consequences than not quitting. Ergo, taking a perceptual definition of 'no choice' we would have to acknowledge that drug addicts often have 'no choice' but to persist in their addictions. It's this inconsistency that compels me to agree more with Thyme. I think it wisest to claim that a choice exists, while acknowledging that the consequences of choosing to leave, while bearable, are often grave, and acknowledging that choice is subject to perception.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Jun 14, 2013 12:35:37 GMT -5
First off, you should be smart enough to know that the news media isn't in the business of truth. They are in the business of getting splashy headlines and one sided stories. And they generally don't like portraying the Catholic church in a good light if they can avoid it. Secondly, if the diocease did offer her some other postion, or pulled some strings in another diocease, they'd be damn fools to advertise it. Why would the diocese be damn fools to advertise they helped someone in a difficult situation? I would think they would want to be looked upon as showing compassion. Do you think this woman or her coworkers will be safer if the church makes it easier for the guy to find her by advertising the fact that she has a job with the church? You also have the fact that the church will have trouble recruiting talent if they advertise the fact that they make a habbit of putting their employees at risk.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Jun 14, 2013 12:49:15 GMT -5
Because the law states that his infraction is worth only a short sentence of months, not years. If we want to keep him in jail for 10 years, then we need to get some laws changed. We also need to be prepared to deal with a huge influx of prisoners. Maybe we should get all those third-strike pot smokers out of jail, and put all the abusers in jail. How would you feel if your son dated a woman, broke up with her, she claimed he beat her every day when he didn't, and he went to jail for the rest of his life? Or how about if he did hit her exactly once in 5 years, she pressed charges, and then after they broke up she claimed he beat her every single day. The reason domestic violence gets light sentences isn't because anybody thinks it doesn't deserve harsh consequences. It is because you can't prove what did or did not happen behind closed doors. If a woman reported abuse every time it happened, it wouldn't be long before you'd get 3 felony convictions and the 3 strikes rule would come into play. But since most beatings aren't reported in a timely mannor, the authorities hands are tied.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 14, 2013 13:02:59 GMT -5
I would be devastated if my son was convicted of any crime he didn't commit.
There is always downside when you increase sentencing for anything. As per my former comment about our prison being full of drug addicts that probably do not need to be in prison. So, I'm not sure of the correct answer.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jun 14, 2013 13:04:40 GMT -5
Because the law states that his infraction is worth only a short sentence of months, not years. If we want to keep him in jail for 10 years, then we need to get some laws changed. We also need to be prepared to deal with a huge influx of prisoners. Maybe we should get all those third-strike pot smokers out of jail, and put all the abusers in jail. How would you feel if your son dated a woman, broke up with her, she claimed he beat her every day when he didn't, and he went to jail for the rest of his life? Or how about if he did hit her exactly once in 5 years, she pressed charges, and then after they broke up she claimed he beat her every single day. The reason domestic violence gets light sentences isn't because anybody thinks it doesn't deserve harsh consequences. It is because you can't prove what did or did not happen behind closed doors. If a woman reported abuse every time it happened, it wouldn't be long before you'd get 3 felony convictions and the 3 strikes rule would come into play. But since most beatings aren't reported in a timely mannor, the authorities hands are tied. I don't think anybody was implying this type scenario. But when a woman/man has their face bashed in and the person doing the bashing is a repeat offender - Zap!
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Jun 14, 2013 13:16:59 GMT -5
How would you feel if your son dated a woman, broke up with her, she claimed he beat her every day when he didn't, and he went to jail for the rest of his life? Or how about if he did hit her exactly once in 5 years, she pressed charges, and then after they broke up she claimed he beat her every single day. The reason domestic violence gets light sentences isn't because anybody thinks it doesn't deserve harsh consequences. It is because you can't prove what did or did not happen behind closed doors. If a woman reported abuse every time it happened, it wouldn't be long before you'd get 3 felony convictions and the 3 strikes rule would come into play. But since most beatings aren't reported in a timely mannor, the authorities hands are tied. I don't think anybody was implying this type scenario. But when a woman/man has their face bashed in and the person doing the bashing is a repeat offender - Zap! Now, if a guy bashes in his girlfriend or wife's face, does he get a lighter sentence than if he did it to a stranger? I was under the impression that more severe assults are felonies, so 3 bad beatings followed by 3 pressed charges would result in '3 strikes' coming into play. Am I wrong about this?
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jun 14, 2013 13:19:53 GMT -5
I don't think anybody was implying this type scenario. But when a woman/man has their face bashed in and the person doing the bashing is a repeat offender - Zap! Now, if a guy bashes in his girlfriend or wife's face, does he get a lighter sentence than if he did it to a stranger? I was under the impression that more severe assults are felonies, so 3 bad beatings followed by 3 pressed charges would result in '3 strikes' coming into play. Am I wrong about this? I was actually referring to the Chris Brown/Rihanna situation that somebody mentioned. Around here if it's your spouse/BF/GF it's domestic battery. If it was a stranger it would just be battery or assault and battery depending on the severity of it.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 14, 2013 13:20:50 GMT -5
Only 24 states have habitual offender laws, and they are applied in different manners. Beating up your wife is in the states jurisdictions.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jun 14, 2013 13:21:05 GMT -5
::We don't agree, Thyme. Nobody chooses to get hurt (welll...except those S& M peeps). I agree they may make choices that lead to that end....absolutely. But no woman I know chooses to be hurt. Many, many women (and their SOs) do choose to remain in the relationship and seek counseling to end the behavior. Sometimes, it works. But the times it doesn't work, doesn't mean that woman made a choice to get hurt again.::
I find this kind of contradictory. If you take steps which you know will lead you getting hurt, you're essentially choosing to get hurt. It's not just that they take steps which lead to that end, they takes steps which they KNOW will lead to that end (speaking specifically about those who stay with abusers). It's kind of like saying I didn't choose to crash my car, I just took my hands off the wheel and stepped on the gas until it crashed like I knew it would, but I didn't CHOOSE to crash, it just happened. Or I jumped off a tall bridge, I didn't CHOOSE to die, I just walked to the bridge, stepped to the edge, and jumped off...all steps which lead to a very predictable end.
If you take steps which you know, or ought to know, will lead to a specified outcome, you've essentially chosen that outcome. And therein lies the line between "don't blame the victim" and "take responsibility for your actions". Personally, I don't think you can take actions that you know will lead to a specific outcome, and then claim that you didn't choose the outcome.
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suesinfl
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Post by suesinfl on Jun 14, 2013 13:33:19 GMT -5
AngleD, I remember your posts during those tough times, and I am so happy that your life has changed for the better! You did what you had to do at the pace you seen fit. You knew who you were dealing with and the best way to make the decisions you did. I'm very proud of you!
MT, I don't think you lack empathy per say, but since you have never been in a DV situation it is easy to say that you would never put up with stuff like that. I do believe that you would never be in that type of situation, you are a very strong, smart woman, and I admire that. You also have the financial resources to just leave, which I think is great thing and I also think that knowing that you could just pack up and leave helps you to feel confident that you would leave. Unfortunately, many women don't have the financial, family, friends, etc. to make a decision in a moments notice, if that makes sense.
I've BTDT, and will never be put in that position again. Mine wasn't physical abuse except for one time during the marriage and one time after the divorce. Mine was controlling and mental abuse. I unfortunately knew the signs because of my mother and father. I made a plan to leave before it could become physical, because I could see it coming. It wasn't easy, because I did not have the resources to just walk out. I had to plan, plan and plan some more. But I did it and have never looked back.
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Queen of Interesting Nuts
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Post by Queen of Interesting Nuts on Jun 14, 2013 13:40:27 GMT -5
She has always run with the wrong crowd seriously. Now I get a text that she needs to move back home, I guarantee they are arguing over the BFF situation.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 14, 2013 13:46:38 GMT -5
It's not obvious at all. "Physically" is not the only way to detain a person.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jun 14, 2013 13:54:32 GMT -5
MT, I don't think you lack empathy per say, but since you have never been in a DV situation it is easy to say that you would never put up with stuff like that. I do believe that you would never be in that type of situation, you are a very strong, smart woman, and I admire that. You also have the financial resources to just leave, which I think is great thing and I also think that knowing that you could just pack up and leave helps you to feel confident that you would leave.
Unfortunately, many women don't have the financial, family, friends, etc. to make a decision in a moments notice, if that makes sense. Suesinfl - actually you kinda hit on two points that I've often wondered about. 1. How many "potential" abusers are there out there who don't abuse because they know in no uncertain terms their SO will not put up with it? 2. Why do people with financial and emotional support systems stay in an abusive relationship? I love my DH dearly but there was a period in our marriage where he started to attempt to manipulate me mentally and emotionally. After the second attempt I told him in no uncertain terms that I was onto his bullshit and had no intention of putting up with it and would leave him in a cold minute if he ever attempted it again. I often wonder if that is how abusive relationships start. As far as the second item my BFF from HS stayed in a really nasty relationship even though she had a strong support structure and family and friends that refused to be separated from her. It was only after her SO started to abuse their child that she finally left. I will never understand why she stayed with him for as long as she did.
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