Who thinks marriage is important.

[Queen of Interesting Nuts]

Changed my mind.

[swamp]

I believe in marriage for the right reasons, and accidental pregnancy isn't it. It compounds one mistake with another. 

And to protect the kid, get an admission of paternity, a custody order, and child support. 

[Queen of Interesting Nuts]

Yeah thanks, it was more of how to protect the child, I mean an admission of well I love her and we will marry when the time is right would have been alright with me, but didn't even get that. It's just seems like no big deal for him and I am googling all kinds of info to protect the child and it seems like a woop ass may be coming down the line.

Ok the admission of paternity is the BC right? The others will be done after the child is born?

[Deleted]

Jun 9, 2013 20:25:39 GMT -5 swamp said:

I believe in marriage for the right reasons, and accidental pregnancy isn't it. It compounds one mistake with another. 

ITA, and I say this as someone who0 got pregnant accidentally-on-purpose at age 30 and was thrilled about it.  We got married and in many ways I wish we hadn't.  It ended in divorce when DS was 12 after some very bad years.  Marrying used to be "the right thing to do" when the girl got pregnant; now I think the decision is based on whether or not the marriage has a chance of succeeding.  From what you've said earlier, the father doesn't sound like marriage material. 

DH and I wish we could be married in the eyes of the church because the commitment is important to us, but not in the eyes of the state, which just makes you pay higher taxes and imposes financial responsibilities you don't necessarily want.   ( A court once tried to attach my wages for unpaid medical expenses of my then-husband because he was unemployed.  I escaped that only because we were in the process of divorce and my lawyer held them off.  They did get paid out of his share of the proceeds.)

[Tired Tess]

naggie72, changed your mind about what exactly?  To have his knees broke?

[giramomma]

Naggie-
What are you trying to protect the child from, exactly?

If child support isn't enough, then have your daughter sue for primary custody...or sue to have his parental rights terminated..

But, you really can't do anything in this case, except maybe pay for the lawyer, should your daughter choose to set some legal boundaries on the relationship between your grandchild and the father.

ETA: I think marriage is important, not for commitment, but for the legal protections it offers-things like the ability to make life and death health decisions without having a ton of paperwork in hand or interference from extended family, SS in old age, etc. It's much cheaper to go to the court house and get a marriage license than it is to see a lawyer to get paper work drawn up when things like cars, houses, etc are purchased jointly not in marriage.

[Mardi Gras Audrey]

I don't think marriage is important per se but I do think it is important to recognize that there are benefits that you get from it that you don't get from just being partners.

I live in a very liberal part of this country and have met a lot of people who won't marry because they "don't believe in it".  The irritating part is a lot of these people are the same ones that complain when they don't get the same legal rights/protections as those who are married.  They like to say that "the govt can't judge how serious my relationship is" and "I don't have to get married to prove I'm committed" but then they don't like that married folks get bennies they don't.  They want to play both sides of the fence and complain......  

ETA: I am not referring to gay couples (I totally think that they should have the right to marry if old enough and consenting).  I'm speaking of heterosexual couples who could marry but choose not to because "I don't have to prove my commitment to anyone" 

[Queen of Interesting Nuts]

I don't know exactly what. We have seen it before, the relationship has a very small chance of surviving. Add in the fact that she chose someone who well is the total opposite of what I would think is marriage material then.....


Been through it with SO many others and I am just trying to think about laying ground work.

[Queen of Interesting Nuts]

Yeah but LURVE trumps everything right

[busymom]

I think marriage is important.  In addition to religious belief, there are plenty of practical reasons to be married.  End of life issues tend to go badly in our state, if there is no marriage license.  I've heard of loved ones being kept away at the end, & kept out of funeral decisions, because next-of-kin have all of the legal power.

[giramomma]

Jun 9, 2013 20:44:23 GMT -5 Queen of Interesting Nuts said:

I don't know exactly what. We have seen it before, the relationship has a very small chance of surviving. Add in the fact that she chose someone who well is the total opposite of what I would think is marriage material then.....


Been through it with SO many others and I am just trying to think about laying ground work.

But this is her choice to make, no?

I think the only thing you can do, if it comes up, is maybe offer things from your experience that weren't so great.

I know my parents knew there was something up with my DH. (And, they were right). But, in order for them to say, "Hey, things will fall apart", they would have to admit that THEIR marriage was a craptacular one at best. But, they didn't. And I was walking int a marriage I was very unprepared for. A marriage that was very similar to my parents.

Turns out, we have the last laugh, because we got ourselves to a point where were capable of having a healthy marriage.

My parents will never, ever have that.

Eventually your daughter will learn that babies can be conceived for all sorts of reasons, love, lust, stupidity, BC failure. Whatever.

[Deleted]

There isn't really anything you can 'prepare for'.  Trying to forewarn your DD that this character is probably going to call her fat, boring & bitchy in 7 months AND will tell her it is HER fault he is walking out . . . well, she'll never believe you.

And you can't protect her from not having enough money to live on.  Bottom line, no matter what the court orders, if he doesn't pay child support she's got a rough road ahead of her.  Most states don't enforce CS well, despite all the statements that you'll go to jail if you don't pay. 

I guess you can decide now what your response will be if any of the not so great scenarios play out. I thought you had already decided this guy was abusive?  If you are not already working on getting your DD away from him things will just get worse as the strain increases.

[raeoflyte]

Jun 9, 2013 20:32:15 GMT -5 Queen of Interesting Nuts said:

Yeah thanks, it was more of how to protect the child, I mean an admission of well I love her and we will marry when the time is right would have been alright with me, but didn't even get that. It's just seems like no big deal for him and I am googling all kinds of info to protect the child and it seems like a woop ass may be coming down the line.

Ok the admission of paternity is the BC right? The others will be done after the child is born?

Now you want them to get married?

[Opti]

I think marriage is important but given your reply #7 I think that's not the entire issue.
The bottom line is she chose this guy for whatever reason. Even if you chase him off it wouldn't necessarily change the kind of guy she's interested in. I think it would be worse for the child for her to give up on Daddy and then turn around and marry someone just like him. Or more likely - someone worse.

[steff]

Ok, I got knocked up & then married.  I got married because it was what hubby wanted.  I was rather meh about it.  As of this October, we've been married 20 years.  It can work out.  Hubby is also the polar opposite of me.  We like different music, different tv shows, different activities, different foods, just completely different interests.  It was rough the first few years, but we finally got it figured out.  Luckily, we didn't have our mother's in the middle of our rough years giving too much advice & wanting to talk about every disagreement.  Not every disagreement is some earth shattering moment.  It could just be a bad day & everyone is being short with each other.  Add the stress of outsiders wanting to be in every little argument & it wouldn't take much to be really bitchy about it. 

[Deleted]

I don't find marriage important. Commitment and stability are, especially when raising children. But no paper is going to provide that if it isn't there already. I would think marriage would be a bad idea in the present situation. 

[Queen of Interesting Nuts]

Oh god no I don't want them to get married. It is a difficult balance, I want to tell her the way it is going to be but I will lose her if I do that.

[steff]

But you don't know the way it will be because you don't have a crystal ball. 

[steff]

Look at it this way.  I was so unsure if a shotgun wedding would last that I never changed my last name.  It's kind of silly now, but that's just how unpredictable things are.  Even when you think it's a trainwreck waiting to happen, it just might not be.  But it's for THEM to figure it out w/o a ton of outside input that isn't unbiased & isn't just going to cause more issues. 

and yes, I still haven't changed my name, but that's because the state of Georgia are morons & I'm not going to pay some ridiculous amount to get a copy of a marriage license I already have & they just don't like Texas paper. 

[mmhmm]

Naggie, it seems to me you're trying to run your daughter's life.  Having raised a daughter (and a son), let me assure you ... you can't do that.  Your daughter is still very young, yes; however, she's also pregnant.  She's going to be a mother and mothers need to be adults.  You seem to want to control everything.  That's not your place anymore.  She needs to make her own decisions, with or without baby-daddy.  If she asks for advice, there's no harm in giving it, but it should be advice ... not a life plan.  As others have said, you need to let go and back off.  MOO

[zibazinski]

The women I know that don't marry now do it purely for financial reasons. They get more bennies being single and don't wish to be taxed if they marry.

[zibazinski]

Besides that, do you have any idea how much it costs to get divorced? Even from a loser? You'll have to pay for it all of course.

[Deleted]

Lots of people don't get married for reasons other than that zib ...     .... Actually when I did get married it was for bennies... Husband was going back to school and needed health insurance. 

I was a bit older than your daughter, but my father was convinced I couldn't do it, and I was a bit irresponsible when I got pregnant... Hadn't had to be responsible to that point. And he hated husband. Thought he was a bum. Unfortunately, I know father has felt guilty for some words and positions he took early on, although we have never held a grudge. But if it does work, you might be happy not to have said everything you think...

oh, and husband and I had some horrid screaming, even howling a few things, fights early on, before we learned how to communicate.

I am forever grateful to mother, who just said, well, guess I can start buying baby outfits... Just said, its your life and sent me gift cards every once nd awhile for groceries. Funny thing though, we had never been extremely close, but I started talking o her every day. She made herself easily accessible, gave good solid advice when asked, and otherwise was just supportive, and silent if not asked. 

My mom is awesome I'm reminded. I really don't know how she managed to turn out so great, but I'm so thankful. 

[happyscooter]

In NC, (I know you are somewhere else), if the couple is unmarried, the father has to sign the birth certificate to acknowledge paternity.  So another thing to consider about marriage.  And if the guy won't sign (the mother can't just write a name on there), it is left blank.

[raeoflyte]

I mean this as nicely as possible, but I agree that you really need to take a step back. You need to realize that your daughter can and will figure things out without you.

Can you take an extended vacation? If not, what are your hobbies? Any friends that you want to reconnect with? Immerse yourself in something for you and take a breather from your dd situation.

I'm worried that you could inadvertently push dd away if she feels that you are constantly judging her. She can probably pick up on it even if you don't say anything.

Almost all of us are searching for parental approval. The points I would try to stress right now are that you love her, trust her, and that she'll be a good mom.

[Shooby]

I am not sure what the question or issue is.  But yes marriage IS important.  However you daughter and BF need to figure that out for themselves.

[Wisconsin Beth]

I think marriage is important.  I also think that the people going into marriage need to be committed, responsible adults.  And preferably they've both lived on their own for at least 6 months or longer (not with roommates, not in a dorm - solo) so they realize that food doesn't magically appear, how to pay bills/budget for stuff, laundry and cleaning.  I realize that some people learn these things without living on their own and other never learn them.  But you can learn so much about yourself when you live alone. 

[formerroomate99]

I think marriage is very important and that a couple should get married before having children. 

But even I wouldn't want my daughter to get involved in a shotgun marriage to a guy with anger issues. 

Marriage is basically an entanglement.  Depending on the situation, it can be a good thing or a bad thing.  From what you've said, it doesn't sound like a good thing, but you need to realise that you are on the outside and may not have the complete story. 

[thyme4change]

Marriage is a legal contract.  I think legal contracts are important.  However, in your daughter's situation, I would choose a different legal contract, or multiple legal contracts over marriage.  

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Marriage is a legal contract. I think legal contracts are important. However, in your daughter's situation, I would choose a different legal contract, or multiple legal contracts over marriage.

 x 1000

And it isn't like it's set in stone, they can always decide to get married later.

Based on your posts naggie no way in hell would I encourage my daughter to marry the baby daddy.  At least not at this point in time.  They are way too immagure to be married.  It's too late on the kid part.  Don't compound it by trying to force them into marriage because it's "the right thing to do".

What I told my friend is you aren't married and there are no assurances he will stick around to do so.  Do what you gotta do to keep him on the hook for the kid.  It's a business transaction, it has nothing to do with "love" at this point in time.

If you do get married it's all moot, but if you don't you'll regret not having things in place when he skips out.

I've never believed shotgun marriages are a good idea, it's better the make it work as a single parents, IMO, than expose a kid to a dysfunctional household all in the name of keeping up apparances.