Florida strikes again- on teen sex- selective prosecution?

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Aug 16, 2013 1:37:14 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Aug 15, 2013 21:56:40 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Your general upset at the knowledge that anyone can own a gun down here amuses me. Keep the laughs coming. 

Why would I be upset- I have no problems with gun ownership- and you missed my point.

I really would hate to have her unable to buy a handgun because FL is the one place I can see the need for one.  Get in a skirmish down there you better be the first one on the trigger. 

You're upset.  You have a huge problem you can't hide with "some people" owning guns.  You might have some minimal credentials, but you are clearly- CLEARLY of the liberal gun-control mindset concerning the natural rights of human beings to defend themselves.  

And it's is evinced in all your posts- including this one where you let on that you still just do not get it:  Smart people do not get in skirmishes down here.  We don't have anything resembling the crime rate of liberal enclaves- save for the liberal enclaves: Parts of Orlando and Miami Dade.

[EVT1]

Not the smart people that I worry about- it is the Zimmermans and the other idiots- the guy that shot another customer at the pizza place for example- claimed SYG of course.

It is a small group, but you never know when or if you are going to run into one of them and down there they know the law and are going to be emboldened by it.  My take on FL is that if someone starts a fight with you, then your best option is to shoot them before they shoot you.  It's probably a 50/50 shot whether you run into a criminal or a gun packing idiot looking for trouble if you are unlucky.

Call it the Zimmerman defense.  You have not heard the last of those- more to come- just wait.

[zibazinski]

You may or you may not. Most gun owners are responsible people. I haven't heard one gun owner  not say that what Zimmerman did is nucking futs. He's damn lucky the gun wasn't used against him. He broke every common sense rule in the book. There's all kinda of crazy people out there so smart people don't go looking for trouble anyway. The ones who carry usually are very careful to avoid situations where they might need it. I find I am MUCH more careful because I do than I was when I didn't.

[pappyjohn99]

www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/16/kaitlyn-hunt-accused-of-further-acts-of-lewd-and-lascivious-behavior-with-underage-girl/

How can anyone defend this predator?

[pappyjohn99]

More news:

www.wptv.com/dpp/news/region_indian_river_county/sebastian/kaitlyn-hunt-emergency-hearing-set-to-decide-whether-sebastian-teen-will-remain-out-of-jail

Let's see how pissed off this judge is.

[EVT1]

Well that was dumb - she couldn't wait for her girlfriend to turn 16?  And really- leaving a digital record

But I will defend her-Pappy she might be dumb as hell but she is no predator- I think we went down this road already and beat it to death.  A lot of dumb in this case starting with the law.

They are three years and change apart in age and apparently have a thing- but I am sure you never saw a girl whose parents told you to keep away or anything like that- I was told to at 16 because of being caught skinny dipping with my GF- know what- we snuck around anyway and eff everyone else who wanted to stop us.  That's probably how they feel.

Looking at the latest information they might be gearing up to take on the law- maybe it is time:

     this afternoon we learned that Attorney William A. Korman, an attorney who has been nationally recognized for his work defending individuals accused of sexual misconduct, has joined Kate's formidable legal team. Mr. Korman, who is based in Boston, Massachusetts, was so outraged by the spurious attacks against Kate, that he agreed to become involved in this case based on his moral outrage at the criminalization of what would be considered typical adolescent behavior and actions. We look forward to Attorney Korman assisting us in this matter

And hey- it's FL- guilty people go free all of the time in spite of the numerous stupid laws they have. 

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Aug 16, 2013 12:33:44 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Not the smart people that I worry about- it is the Zimmermans and the other idiots- the guy that shot another customer at the pizza place for example- claimed SYG of course.

It is a small group, but you never know when or if you are going to run into one of them and down there they know the law and are going to be emboldened by it.  My take on FL is that if someone starts a fight with you, then your best option is to shoot them before they shoot you.  It's probably a 50/50 shot whether you run into a criminal or a gun packing idiot looking for trouble if you are unlucky.

Call it the Zimmerman defense.  You have not heard the last of those- more to come- just wait.

That's because you're a liberal.  You assume that some wiser-than-thou central planner-- with plenty of guns at their disposal-- will somehow be able to determine who has the right to bear arms, and who doesn't.  

No doubt George Zimmerman didn't use the best judgment, no doubt he's not the brightest bulb and maybe I'll even concede that you have a valid point that he shouldn't have a gun- but people like Trayvon give me far more legitimate cause for worry than people like George Zimmerman.

Your weird, irrational obsession with the Zimmerman case actually qualifies you for a review of your concealed carry license if you're asking me.  But fortunately in Florida, neither one of us will have to worry about our respective rights because the natural right of self defense is absolute, and not the subjective opinion of some bureaucrat- no matter where they are on the political spectrum, or what they're opinions are on any given issue.

[cereb]

"Your weird, irrational obsession with the Zimmerman case actually qualifies you for a review of your concealed carry license if you're asking me."



Pot/ kettle

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Aug 17, 2013 12:58:14 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Well that was dumb - she couldn't wait for her girlfriend to turn 16?  And really- leaving a digital record

But I will defend her-Pappy she might be dumb as hell but she is no predator- I think we went down this road already and beat it to death.  A lot of dumb in this case starting with the law.

They are three years and change apart in age and apparently have a thing- but I am sure you never saw a girl whose parents told you to keep away or anything like that- I was told to at 16 because of being caught skinny dipping with my GF- know what- we snuck around anyway and eff everyone else who wanted to stop us.  That's probably how they feel.

Looking at the latest information they might be gearing up to take on the law- maybe it is time:

     this afternoon we learned that Attorney William A. Korman, an attorney who has been nationally recognized for his work defending individuals accused of sexual misconduct, has joined Kate's formidable legal team. Mr. Korman, who is based in Boston, Massachusetts, was so outraged by the spurious attacks against Kate, that he agreed to become involved in this case based on his moral outrage at the criminalization of what would be considered typical adolescent behavior and actions. We look forward to Attorney Korman assisting us in this matter

And hey- it's FL- guilty people go free all of the time in spite of the numerous stupid laws they have. 

She is the textbook definition of a predator. She has been charged, there's been a court order issued. This isn't a case of Romeo and Juliet sneaking around behind their parent's back- she is in serious legal trouble here. The fact she cannot discern the right course of action, and seems to have no ability to control herself- makes her a prime candidate for the place we send people who cannot manage to control themselves. I have little doubt that the plea deal will be off the table, and she'll be facing additional charges to boot.

She's at the mercy of the court now. Before she blew the plea deal, she might have had a shot at some mercy in sentencing, however I suspect she's looking at the max now. The courts will put up with a lot, save out and out defiance. And the prosecutors who looked like clowns for offering a politically-motivated plea agreement in the first place, really have egg on their face now.

The state claims to be in possession of “approximately 20,000 text messages,” including over twenty-five explicit photographs of Hunt nude and at least two videos in which she is masturbating. All of the photographs and videos were sent after the court had ordered Hunt not to have any contact with the teenager.

Hunt allegedly knew that she was violating the court order and that doing so could land her jail. Shortly after giving the girl the iPod in May, Hunt reportedly implored her to “be careful,” because “f they find out we talked I’m going to jail.”

The more serious allegation by prosecutors is that Hunt repeatedly met with the teenager, a direction violation of the court order that she not come within 500 feet of her. Prosecutors claim that “the defendant coordinated secret meetings with the child victim,” during which the two “would have intimate personal contact.” Because the Florida criminal code defines this contact as a “dangerous crime,” prosecutors petitioned the court to order a pretrial detention of Hunt and possibly her mother, Kelley Hunt Smith, who is accused of instructing her daughter’s alleged victim to destroy all evidence of the unlawful contact.

Hunt had been offered a deal that did not involve jail time or registering as a sex offender if she plead no contest to two misdemeanor counts of battery and one felony count of interference of child custody. She had not indicated whether she would accept it at the time this new evidence was revealed.

I return to my original opinion on her- she is the person the maximum sentence was made for.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Aug 17, 2013 11:45:56 GMT -5 pappyjohn99 said:

www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/16/kaitlyn-hunt-accused-of-further-acts-of-lewd-and-lascivious-behavior-with-underage-girl/

How can anyone defend this predator?

Textbook definition of a predator, isn't she?  She is exactly the person maximum sentences were made for- recalcitrant, uncontrolled recidivists.

[cereb]

"Textbook definition of a predator, isn't she? She is exactly the person maximum sentences were made for- recalcitrant, uncontrolled recidivists."


Nope.

[EVT1]

Predator is insulting and lessens the label for the actual predators.  People claimed she was just going after young girls for sex- really?  So where are the other victims?  Seems to me this is her girlfriend- and it should be noted that they are both in on it- violating the rules, etc.

Should I again mention that in most states this is not illegal?  Some people may be uncomfortable with the sex and all- but this is exactly the kind of case the Romeo and Juliet laws were designed for.  Stupid kids who think they are in love- or might be- how do we know?

PBP school of law and the 'max'- even under the guidelines she would get nowhere near the max- and in this case- if it goes down in a media circus which it might- will end up with all sorts of possibilities from jury nullification to a sympathetic judge- to a long appeal to attack the law- which should probably be done. 

[EVT1]

Aug 17, 2013 13:45:05 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Aug 16, 2013 12:33:44 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Not the smart people that I worry about- it is the Zimmermans and the other idiots- the guy that shot another customer at the pizza place for example- claimed SYG of course.

It is a small group, but you never know when or if you are going to run into one of them and down there they know the law and are going to be emboldened by it.  My take on FL is that if someone starts a fight with you, then your best option is to shoot them before they shoot you.  It's probably a 50/50 shot whether you run into a criminal or a gun packing idiot looking for trouble if you are unlucky.

Call it the Zimmerman defense.  You have not heard the last of those- more to come- just wait.

That's because you're a liberal.  You assume that some wiser-than-thou central planner-- with plenty of guns at their disposal-- will somehow be able to determine who has the right to bear arms, and who doesn't.  

No doubt George Zimmerman didn't use the best judgment, no doubt he's not the brightest bulb and maybe I'll even concede that you have a valid point that he shouldn't have a gun- but people like Trayvon give me far more legitimate cause for worry than people like George Zimmerman.

Your weird, irrational obsession with the Zimmerman case actually qualifies you for a review of your concealed carry license if you're asking me.  But fortunately in Florida, neither one of us will have to worry about our respective rights because the natural right of self defense is absolute, and not the subjective opinion of some bureaucrat- no matter where they are on the political spectrum, or what they're opinions are on any given issue.

It's not the Zimmerman case- it is the SYG law I have a problem with. I have no problem with anyone qualified having a gun or carrying them either. I have no problem with self-defense as it is an absolute right. I have a problem with what it has done- and if you gave two shits about justice you would hate this law- at least the way FL does it. You do get it, right? The people using this law are generally criminals and assholes that over-reacted that should be criminals?  Maybe you don't.   Research it a little- this law has resulted in nothing more than more violence and less punishment.  How is that a good law?

[pappyjohn99]

Evt- She is a predator in my book, and a stupid one. But the stupidity obviously comes from her Mom. I think Mommy deserves five years for tampering with a witness.

media2.wptv.com/documents/kaitlyn%20hunt%20violation.pdf

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Aug 17, 2013 16:58:24 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Aug 17, 2013 13:45:05 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

That's because you're a liberal.  You assume that some wiser-than-thou central planner-- with plenty of guns at their disposal-- will somehow be able to determine who has the right to bear arms, and who doesn't.  

No doubt George Zimmerman didn't use the best judgment, no doubt he's not the brightest bulb and maybe I'll even concede that you have a valid point that he shouldn't have a gun- but people like Trayvon give me far more legitimate cause for worry than people like George Zimmerman.

Your weird, irrational obsession with the Zimmerman case actually qualifies you for a review of your concealed carry license if you're asking me.  But fortunately in Florida, neither one of us will have to worry about our respective rights because the natural right of self defense is absolute, and not the subjective opinion of some bureaucrat- no matter where they are on the political spectrum, or what they're opinions are on any given issue.

It's not the Zimmerman case- it is the SYG law I have a problem with. I have no problem with anyone qualified having a gun or carrying them either. I have no problem with self-defense as it is an absolute right. I have a problem with what it has done- and if you gave two shits about justice you would hate this law- at least the way FL does it. You do get it, right? The people using this law are generally criminals and assholes that over-reacted that should be criminals?  Maybe you don't.   Research it a little- this law has resulted in nothing more than more violence and less punishment.  How is that a good law?

I'm not the one that keeps injecting the Zimmerman case into everything I post.  The fact that you're opposed to SYG reveals that you have liberal gun control impulses, if not total devotion to gun control.  The fact that you have a weapon, and a permit is totally consistent with liberalism- liberals always tend to believe the policies they favor are for someone else.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Aug 17, 2013 18:23:49 GMT -5 pappyjohn99 said:

Evt- She is a predator in my book, and a stupid one. But the stupidity obviously comes from her Mom. I think Mommy deserves five years for tampering with a witness.

media2.wptv.com/documents/kaitlyn%20hunt%20violation.pdf

Yeah- she's the spawn of a regular kook's nest.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Aug 17, 2013 16:43:42 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Predator is insulting and lessens the label for the actual predators.  People claimed she was just going after young girls for sex- really?  So where are the other victims?  Seems to me this is her girlfriend- and it should be noted that they are both in on it- violating the rules, etc.

Should I again mention that in most states this is not illegal?  Some people may be uncomfortable with the sex and all- but this is exactly the kind of case the Romeo and Juliet laws were designed for.  Stupid kids who think they are in love- or might be- how do we know?

PBP school of law and the 'max'- even under the guidelines she would get nowhere near the max- and in this case- if it goes down in a media circus which it might- will end up with all sorts of possibilities from jury nullification to a sympathetic judge- to a long appeal to attack the law- which should probably be done. 

Maximum sentences are for the offenders that don't 'get it'.  They are for the remorseless, the contemptuous, and the recidivist.  What is she if not these things?

[EVT1]

 

[pappyjohn99]

[mmhmm]

Aug 17, 2013 18:50:05 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Aug 17, 2013 16:58:24 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

It's not the Zimmerman case- it is the SYG law I have a problem with. I have no problem with anyone qualified having a gun or carrying them either. I have no problem with self-defense as it is an absolute right. I have a problem with what it has done- and if you gave two shits about justice you would hate this law- at least the way FL does it. You do get it, right? The people using this law are generally criminals and assholes that over-reacted that should be criminals?  Maybe you don't.   Research it a little- this law has resulted in nothing more than more violence and less punishment.  How is that a good law?

I'm not the one that keeps injecting the Zimmerman case into everything I post.  The fact that you're opposed to SYG reveals that you have liberal gun control impulses, if not total devotion to gun control.  The fact that you have a weapon, and a permit is totally consistent with liberalism- liberals always tend to believe the policies they favor are for someone else.

Hogwash.

[EVT1]

Aug 17, 2013 18:51:42 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Aug 17, 2013 16:43:42 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Predator is insulting and lessens the label for the actual predators.  People claimed she was just going after young girls for sex- really?  So where are the other victims?  Seems to me this is her girlfriend- and it should be noted that they are both in on it- violating the rules, etc.

Should I again mention that in most states this is not illegal?  Some people may be uncomfortable with the sex and all- but this is exactly the kind of case the Romeo and Juliet laws were designed for.  Stupid kids who think they are in love- or might be- how do we know?

PBP school of law and the 'max'- even under the guidelines she would get nowhere near the max- and in this case- if it goes down in a media circus which it might- will end up with all sorts of possibilities from jury nullification to a sympathetic judge- to a long appeal to attack the law- which should probably be done. 

Maximum sentences are for the offenders that don't 'get it'.  They are for the remorseless, the contemptuous, and the recidivist.  What is she if not these things?

One- no they are not, and two she is just a dumb teenager that if not for living in fucked-up land FL no one would know who she was.

How do you reconcile that Mr. legal scholar?  If her acts are worth 15 years in jail- how is it that one state over there is no infraction?  That must be an outrage to you to know that such lawlessness occurs past the state line.   Anarchy I tell you!

Well I stand with her and against stupid laws.  And BTW she is not an offender, recidivist, whatever at this point- she is innocent.  And even if found guilty of breaking some stupid FL law down the road- she only becomes a victim in my book.

[pappyjohn99]

Sure, Kate is the victim.  Her coach, principle, the victims parents, her parents, other adults, the police, 2 judges, and a zillion people online all told her to leave that little girl alone or you're going to jail. She gave them all the middle finger. Her choice. It looks like Tuesday she may answer for that defiance.

We get it, you don't like this law. The people of Florida do. It came before the legislature for review and changes couldn't muster enough support for a vote. I guess that the people want to protect children under the age of 15 from adults that would take them into a bathroom and criminally sexually assault them. That's their right. The Founders of this nation set it up so States have latitude in how they govern and if people don't like the laws in one state they can find another. Many of us like this system just fine. Moving one state over is called voting with your feet and is every Americans right. There is no lawlessness or anarchy. No matter how much you stomp your feet and shout that this ain't right, the girl knowingly committed multiple crimes and will answer for them. 

Since you seem so interested, when I was in high school the girls I dated were all in my class, or the class ahead of me. I never had a problem with any girls parents so there was no need to sneak. For the record, in all my 52 years, I never put my hands on any girl under 16 years of age. Got it?

As for the mother, she enabled this crime from the get go, sheltering a runaway for criminal purposes. She had illegal contact with the victim, hindered prosecution, and encouraged the destruction of evidence. She also slandered the family of the victim mercilessly. She and Kate need a serious tune-up and I hope they wind up in matching orange jump suits.

[billisonboard]

Musical Interlude

[frankq]

Legally- sure- the law is the law- but I really wonder how this is normally handled. I wonder if the same sex angle and the degree of pissed off the parents are had an effect- or even political concerns.

Should a lot of people just count their blesssing they never got caught or does the law stink in this case? I think many states have updated their laws over this kind of thing- but of course in FL it is going to be an issue.

Why does the sexual preference angle even being mentioned? There is a huge difference between 18 year olds and 14 year olds. As far as counting our blessings for never having got caught......tell us...how many times did you have sex with a 14 year old when you were 18? I think at this point we can cut the "Florida is an issue" crap on this one.......

[frankq]

Oh....Sorry.. I though you guys were discussing sex between an adult and a child, then I see Zimmerman, guns, and whatever.....You guys really need to get past it...

[billisonboard]

May 23, 2013 23:28:20 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

May 23, 2013 18:03:41 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

...
It would be up to a judge to decide if she would be labeled a felon as she moves forward in life

I am okay with this. I think that there are situations where it is appropriate for an eighteen year old that has sex with a fourteen year old should be convicted of a felony. I think that there are situations where it is appropriate for no conviction. Giving the power to make that call to individuals who are directly involved in each individual case is the best option for getting it right.

IM(not so)HO, I think this case is playing out in a way that suggests that I was spot on 3 months ago.

[Virgil Showlion]

But I will defend her-Pappy she might be dumb as hell but she is no predator- I think we went down this road already and beat it to death.

She does seem to be criminally stupid, evt. Defying multiple court orders. Sneaking pornographic videos of herself to the victim. Rejecting the original plea bargain agreement, which was a gift.

They're going to throw the book at her, and thus far I've seen nothing in her continued conduct to suggest they shouldn't.

[EVT1]

I agree- felony stupid.  She could have waited 6 more months and legally had sex with her all she wanted.

The bad thing about FL law- a 50yo can bang her to- so I guess FL doesn't give a shit about 16yo girls being molested by adults, does it.

Does that state do anything right?

[zibazinski]

Why, yes, they do. They follow the laws the people of Florida wish them to.

[Virgil Showlion]

Aug 18, 2013 16:42:23 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

I agree- felony stupid.  She could have waited 6 more months and legally had sex with her all she wanted.

The bad thing about FL law- a 50yo can bang her to- so I guess FL doesn't give a shit about 16yo girls being molested by adults, does it.

Does that state do anything right?

It cares about whether its citizens comply with clear laws. It does not care whether you or I consider those laws unjust based on our personal views on adult-on-teen sex.

Do either of these facts concern me? No.

What would concern me is if Florida didn't care about whether its citizens complied with clear laws, or if Florida did care whether you or I considered their laws unjust based on our views on adult-on-teen sex.

95% of your audience here consists of people whose view of Ms. Hunt ranges from "oversexed egotist" at best to "stupid, lawless pervert" at worst. You're not going to find a lot of sympathy for your position, and you're certainly not going to convince anyone that Florida upholding its laws is a bad thing.

Pick your battles.