Bluerobin
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Post by Bluerobin on Apr 18, 2013 14:01:30 GMT -5
So, they graduate at 16. Who wants to hire a kid for a professional job, even if he is bright. He still has lots of growing up to do, and it ain't gonna be on my dime!
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 18, 2013 14:01:39 GMT -5
So what happens when they have completed their education by the time they are 16? What do they do in the meantime? They aren't old enough to sign a contract, so they get to live at home and do what? Work? Exactly who are their peers? They would not be able to socialize with their coworkers, and would have nothing in common with them. The peers their own age are doing things on their 'normal' schedule. Seems to me that it would be a lonely life because their education has pushed them to the point where their emotional/interest age is at their age, but their education is the same as someone 10 years older. I don't think it is doing them any favors..... I don't know - but Doogie Houser just walked into every room and announced that even though he was the youngest person there, he was the smartest. And anyone who didn't want to be treated by someone his age was able to choose a doctor with less intelligence. I'm sure that would work for these kids as well. People love to hear that.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Apr 18, 2013 14:14:37 GMT -5
I really don't think going to college at 12 is a good thing.
My youngest was a "genius" when he was younger. At age 4 he was reading at a second grade level and could add 3 digit numbers and do simple multiplication. We started him in school early, but he just missed the cutoff date by 13 days (and was born 14 days past his due date). Even though he was way ahead at a young age, it was really just because he did everything early, and a lot of others caught up to him. By high school he was an excellent student but no longer highly advanced. He had plenty of friends and never had any social problems. He was an average size kid until high school where he grew to be 6'3" (so far, he is still growing at 18).
I would not have wanted to have a kid who went to college at 12. As it is, my son went away to college at 17 and couldn't buy his own cold medicine when he got sick!
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Apr 18, 2013 14:22:22 GMT -5
I don't want my kids going to college before they get pubic hair. That isn't success to me. That just seems like acceleration for no reason. I've known a few people who were teenaged wonder-boys and went to med school before they were 17. They all hated their childhood and felt they missed out. There is plenty of time to be an adult. Why force it? That's how I feel as well. Just because a kid might be intelectually equal to adults does not mean they are on equal footing when it comes to emotional and other aspects. In other words, I don't think any 12 year old is ready for college, even if they can handle the course work. I think it's a shame that these kids are growing up at 12. I think they will regret skipping out on most of their childhood later. If I had a super genius, I'd look at other ways of stimulating their desire for learning than shipping them off to college. Besides, what employer is going to hire a 16 year old kid to do a professional job? There's a lot more to being an adult than knowing lots of stuff.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Apr 18, 2013 14:25:15 GMT -5
I don't know. My kids don't have to be Rhodes Scholars for me to consider them a success. If they graduate and pursue a career and have a job and pay their own bills and can live on their own, then i consider that a success. If they want to be a doctor or a plumber, i don't care.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Apr 18, 2013 14:25:24 GMT -5
How is not having a childhood a success? this actually makes me very sad...kids deserve to have a childhood I went to college with a guy who homeschooled, graduated at 16 and then did a couple years at the community college before tranferring. Like most homeschoolers, he reported that his schoolwork took around 3 hours a day, leaving plenty of time to be a kid. And he also had a ton of outside interests that he wouldn't have had time for if he had been forced to piss away 35 hours a week in a classroom. Well, most disciplines don't require a knowledge of dinosuours or evolution, and they'll get exposed to all that in college anyway. Showing up at a 4 year college not knowing anything about BC could be tricky though. I don't think many homeschoolers send their minor childen away to college.
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kgb18
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Post by kgb18 on Apr 18, 2013 14:26:09 GMT -5
What's so great is getting that time to just have fun and see the good in things and the beauty of everyday before life starts to eat away at you. Being innocent of so much of the bad in the world. Being carefree, not yet worried about your future, a job, etc. One day DD and I were driving somewhere and we got stuck in a construction zone. She was 2 at the time. I was so annoyed. From the back seat she said, "Look at all the pretty orange and flashing lights." No worry about being somewhere on time or driving through freshly dumped road patch. She just saw pretty lights and colors. How many adults can see something pretty in a mess of construction? That's what's so great about childhood.
And that's a shame. The social aspect of college was one of the best things to happen to me. I made some of my very best friends in college. I was a very serious kid. I learned to have fun and how to balance the fun with the serious.
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Waffle
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Post by Waffle on Apr 18, 2013 14:29:08 GMT -5
gira - as often happens with these things - someone is looking for the benefits of homeschooling, because they are interested in doing so. They google around, and find some success stories, and some extreme success stories, and then post them as the gospel truth that homeschooling is the way to go. Meanwhile, homeschooled children probably fall into some normal bell curve, just like kids in public school and kids in private school. Schooling is so local and so personal that you can't make a generic statement about anything and have it be applicable to many people. Anyway, so instead of us jumping on it and saying "What a raving success story!" we criticize, and point out the flaws (because we are awesome at that.) And then the OP feels we have clearly misunderstood, and our reading comprehension sucks - these kids are obviously perfect, happy and well educated. Maybe. But, as I've said with other things - there may not be anything wrong with it, but it isn't what I want for my children. Which gives me the perfect excuse for why my kids are doing 3rd and 4th grade level work when they are in the 3rd and 4th grade age range. I've just got to say that this OP wasn't looking for articles about the benefits of homeschooling - I was actually looking at articles about the West Texas explosion and a link to the homeschooling story was at the bottom of one of the stories that I found. And I really don't have a particulary strong opinion about homeschooling in general. (I have no kids - it's not personal to me) I created the thread because homeschooling seems to be a topic of interest to a lot of people here and that article in particular seemed interesting to me.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Apr 18, 2013 14:37:05 GMT -5
To those that don't want kids going to college before they are 18- how do you feel about the PSEO options? DS has been recommended as a PSEO student. We have to go to a parents meeting on Monday to learn more about this option. If he decides to do it he would have a mixture of regular high school classes (PE is his only regular class) his AP and Advanced Classes and some college courses. DS will be a sophmore next fall. I'd rather he wait until his Junior Year. He'd obviously still live at home but would technically be taking some college courses.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Apr 18, 2013 14:39:09 GMT -5
I dunno. You go to class at the CC, come home and hang out with your friends, and go to age appropriate activities.
You're assuming that if school takes 6 hours a day to graduate at 18 that someone who homeschooled and gradutated at 12 worked 9-12 hours a day. That really isn't the case. Regular school is a huge waste of time. Most teachers spend at most 20% of their time teaching, with the rest spent on discipline and other tasks. I went to college with a lot of homeschoolers, and even the ones that graduated early reported spending around 3 hours a day on their schoolwork.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 18, 2013 14:39:48 GMT -5
[/span]
I think the problem with your statement here is that you assume that 35 hours a week in a classroom means that you didn't have any time to be a kid either. When in reality, I don't think anyone spent 35 hours a week in a classroom. First, school isn't even 7 hours per day, much less 35 hours in a classroom. In high school, we had 6 class periods - one of which was lunch. And all of us took things like band, drama, sports, art, etc. Those aren't really "classroom" activities - but were very social and experience oriented, not like a lecture hall. Classes were only 45 minutes, and we changed classrooms every period, and we usually stopped and chatted in between, etc. Plus, there was screwing around in the classroom. So, we are down to about 3 hours of classwork per day. We just "pursued other interests" on campus. To me, being in a situation where there were 1000 people in my age group, and in the same proverbial boat as me was the experience of being a kid.
I'm not saying that homeschoolers in general don't get "kid" time - because obviously they do. I know most homeschooling parents put a lot of thought and effort into making sure their kids get time with other kids, and don't count on that school campus to create a bond with other kids. But, it is likely they are socializing with kids who are about their age, and probably learning somewhat similar things in a very different way. Or maybe they are part of the same homeschooling group, so they have some common ground, etc.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2013 14:40:27 GMT -5
What makes you so sure that they didn't have a childhood (not to mention what's so great about childhood, in the first place)? The only thing I saw as a downside was that they are all probably missing the social aspects of the college experience. They are also missing out on the social aspects of being 12.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Apr 18, 2013 14:42:07 GMT -5
I still think there's some value in showing up at school and spending 35 hours a week there. Showing up at one place and doing work, even if it's boring and tedious, is what most jobs are like.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 18, 2013 14:43:27 GMT -5
Showing up at one place and doing work, even if it's boring and tedious, is what most jobs are like.
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Waffle
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Post by Waffle on Apr 18, 2013 14:43:41 GMT -5
I still think there's some value in showing up at school and spending 35 hours a week there. Showing up at one place and doing work, even if it's boring and tedious, is what most jobs are like. Yeah, if my job wasn't so boring and tedious, I'd spend a lot less time here. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/grin.png)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2013 14:44:55 GMT -5
I agree with Thyme. All of the homeschoolers I know - which is to say, all of the homeschoolers that post here - seem to invest a lot of effort in helping their kid develop socially (not just intellectually).
If your kid is smart, they should get to learn new things and go beyond the basic curriculum. But sending them to college at 12 - as though college was only about covering slightly more advanced material - seems terribly unfair and terribly unwise.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Apr 18, 2013 14:48:44 GMT -5
This "evidence" in support of homeschooling is just one particular case. There's no real indication these kids couldn't have done the same or similar in another schooling situation.
I've kind of always felt that homeschoolers generally rank "ahead" of public school is not because public school is necessarily inferior to homeschooling, but because by definition, homeschooled kids have parents that take great value in investing their education. Whereas public school has parents who are interested and uninterested in their child's education. Also homeschooling generally requires at least a middle class income to support a homemaker to act as the homeschooler, which means the family is likely a bit higher income than the average public school family. And as we all know, there's is a correlation between socioeconomic status and educational attainment.
So a combination of higher socioeconomic standing and parents that care about and invest in their kid's education means they would likely succeed and fare better than your average public school kid. Not necessarly because homeschooling itself is a suprior form of education.
I would pose that kids with a smilar demographic and background that lends to homeschooling would succeed if they were in public or private school as well as homeschooling.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Apr 18, 2013 14:48:44 GMT -5
What makes you so sure that they didn't have a childhood (not to mention what's so great about childhood, in the first place)? The only thing I saw as a downside was that they are all probably missing the social aspects of the college experience. They are also missing out on the social aspects of being 12. Again, what makes you think that homeschooled kids who go to the local CC don't hang out with other kids? There are neighbor kids, church activities, community center activities, sports leagues, and homeschoolers generally do get together for various stuff. Didn't you have any friends who went to other schools when you were in school?
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Apr 18, 2013 14:52:26 GMT -5
They are also missing out on the social aspects of being 12. Again, what makes you think that homeschooled kids who go to the local CC don't hang out with other kids? There are neighbor kids, church activities, community center activities, sports leagues, and homeschoolers generally do get together for various stuff. Didn't you have any friends who went to other schools when you were in school? Would there be any common topics/interests? A 12 year old who goes to college and a 12 year old who is in Grade 7.....how much common things do you think they will have with other kids the same age in their church, community, sports league etc?
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Apr 18, 2013 14:53:10 GMT -5
I'm guessing the kids who are really geniuses that come along very rarely and you read about in the paper are one thing but I still think most kids should enjoy being kids. You've got the rest of your life to work until you die why rush through what's generally the most care free time in your life? I always remember telling my mom I couldn't wait to grow up when I was a kid and her response was always "enjoy it while you can." Like everyone you have ups and downs and sometimes it sucks being a teenager but I definitely enjoyed it and can't believe how fast it flew by.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 18, 2013 14:54:27 GMT -5
Yes, they went to the school up the street, and took the same classes at another all-white rich suburban public school, or they went to the private school, or they went to the school that was a little more diverse, but not that much different. None of my friends were getting a doctorate when I was trying to pass Freshman Algebra. I would have thought they were weird.[/span]
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Apr 18, 2013 14:56:01 GMT -5
I guess it depends on the kid. I took a summer class at the local CC when I was 10 and nothing terrible happened to me just because I was left along on a college campus. I just went about my business and nobody bothered with me. But there is no way in heck I'd let DS1 on a college campus at 12. He's way too socially driven and looks older than he is.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 18, 2013 14:57:14 GMT -5
This "evidence" in support of homeschooling is just one particular case. There's no real indication these kids couldn't have done the same or similar in another schooling situation.
I've kind of always felt that homeschoolers generally rank "ahead" of public school is not because public school is necessarily inferior to homeschooling, but because by definition, homeschooled kids have parents that take great value in investing their education. Whereas public school has parents who are interested and uninterested in their child's education. Also homeschooling generally requires at least a middle class income to support a homemaker to act as the homeschooler, which means the family is likely a bit higher income than the average public school family. And as we all know, there's is a correlation between socioeconomic status and educational attainment.
So a combination of higher socioeconomic standing and parents that care about and invest in their kid's education means they would likely succeed and fare better than your average public school kid. Not necessarly because homeschooling itself is a suprior form of education.
I would pose that kids with a smilar demographic and background that lends to homeschooling would succeed if they were in public or private school as well as homeschooling. I'm sure there are parents who create a very good educational experience for their homeschooled child. But, there are parents out there who are doing it poorly. As I said before, without any data, I would apply a generic bell curve to the homeschooled population, just as I would to any other huge population. I suspect most homeschooled kids are doing work in the average range.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Apr 18, 2013 14:58:17 GMT -5
Well former, you took A CLASS at college. You were not enrolled in college at age 12.
There is a difference. Youstill had your regular, life of a 10 year old the rest of the year.You (maybe?!?!) had a lot of common things with other 10 year olds.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2013 15:01:38 GMT -5
They are also missing out on the social aspects of being 12. Again, what makes you think that homeschooled kids who go to the local CC don't hang out with other kids? There are neighbor kids, church activities, community center activities, sports leagues, and homeschoolers generally do get together for various stuff. Didn't you have any friends who went to other schools when you were in school? Yes, regular kids. Not kids with the stink of being "different" all over them. Frankly, being homeschooled is enough outsider status for any kid to have to overcome. Skipping one grade is a lot for a kid to overcome. Skipping 5 or more grades AND being homeschooled? Nobody's hanging out with that kid.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2013 15:05:25 GMT -5
I see a lot of similarities between these parents and the stage parents who push their kids into the Toddlers & Tiaras circuit, or into having a full time acting or singing career when they are still children.
At some point, it isnt about what the kids want anymore, it is about the parents. And even if the kids say they want it, the parents aren't actually looking out for their best interests.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Apr 18, 2013 15:09:15 GMT -5
What makes you so sure that they didn't have a childhood (not to mention what's so great about childhood, in the first place)? The only thing I saw as a downside was that they are all probably missing the social aspects of the college experience. They are also missing out on the social aspects of being 12. Like what? I mean I understand the argument that they aren't in school with other 12 year olds. But that would be the case if instead of college they just stayed homeschooled. There's nothing stopping them from socializing with other 12 year olds the saem way they would if htey were homeschooled.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2013 15:15:02 GMT -5
They are also missing out on the social aspects of being 12. Like what? I mean I understand the argument that they aren't in school with other 12 year olds. But that would be the case if instead of college they just stayed homeschooled. There's nothing stopping them from socializing with other 12 year olds the saem way they would if htey were homeschooled. A little bit they have different schedules. 12 year old homeschooled kids can go play soccer at 4:00 the same as all the other kids. 12 year old college kids have college-student course loads and hours. But mostly, it is about having the stink of being the weird kid on you.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Apr 18, 2013 15:25:09 GMT -5
::12 year old homeschooled kids can go play soccer at 4:00 the same as all the other kids. 12 year old college kids have college-student course loads and hours.::
I don't know many people in college who couldn't go play soccer at 4:00 if they wanted to actually. What are the hours of most college kids? 12-18 in-school hours per week compared to 35 for kids in actual school. More out of class hours to do homework, but a lot more flexibility on when to do it.
I understand the "stink of being the weird kid", but you have that being homeschooled anyways.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Apr 18, 2013 15:26:12 GMT -5
I don't want my kids going to college before they get pubic hair. That isn't success to me. That just seems like acceleration for no reason. I've known a few people who were teenaged wonder-boys and went to med school before they were 17. They all hated their childhood and felt they missed out. There is plenty of time to be an adult. Why force it? That's how I feel as well. Just because a kid might be intelectually equal to adults does not mean they are on equal footing when it comes to emotional and other aspects. In other words, I don't think any 12 year old is ready for college, even if they can handle the course work. I think it's a shame that these kids are growing up at 12. I think they will regret skipping out on most of their childhood later. If I had a super genius, I'd look at other ways of stimulating their desire for learning than shipping them off to college. Besides, what employer is going to hire a 16 year old kid to do a professional job? There's a lot more to being an adult than knowing lots of stuff. While I agree with you, what do we do with these kids in the mean time. They have passed all their elementary education and the next step is college/university. They are too young to work. How do we keep them intellectually engaged until they are emotionally mature enough to enter college? Should they take a few years off in between their elementary and college education?
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