swamp
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Post by swamp on Apr 19, 2013 7:39:24 GMT -5
I will when the anti public school people stop calling them "liberal indoctrination camps." ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png)
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Apr 19, 2013 7:41:26 GMT -5
I'm going to send her my DD for a week. If you tell DD not to put the plastic bag over her head, she will do it, while she looks you in the eye and watching for your reaction.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2013 7:45:46 GMT -5
I agree with Wrongside, but by that same token I don't think teaching your children is limited to those who homeschool (or unschool). Are you me? The ironic thing is that my dad is a teacher, and apparently a good one. It must skip a generation... Now that I'm prohibited from engaging in contact sports for the next 7 months I've been relegated to teaching basic skills to our new skaters. It is PAINFUL. Hopefully I improve at explaining things before my kid starts asking many questions. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png) I'm the same way by nature. But through having to train people at work, I've gotten a bit better. The good things about babies/toddlers is that they learn through repetition, so for now I just do a lot of demonstrating, repeating and pointing. When DS gets old enough to ask his own questions though, I'm screwed. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2013 7:47:45 GMT -5
Lol. While I understand your position, I'm not sure we get anywhere better by always taking the extreme opposite our opponent That said after defending unschooling even though I dont ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png) ... i think, at least in our current circumstance, we need public school, I just don't think it's right for my kids. I do think more parents could homeschool than think they can ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/smiley.png) , but recognize its not always the right choice...
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Apr 19, 2013 7:52:37 GMT -5
Oped, thanks for the comments. It's interesting. I won't homeschool but my DD is in a German Immersion School, so it's not exactly a standard public school curriculum. In all honesty, we had NO clue what we were getting ourselves into but DD seems to like and thrive in it, so we're going to stick with it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2013 7:54:41 GMT -5
I can see ourselves looking for ways to supplement DS's education, but in no way are either of us capable of homeschooling. We didn't move to this school district so we could pay $11k/year in property taxes and not send our kids to school.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2013 7:55:21 GMT -5
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Apr 19, 2013 8:00:22 GMT -5
Ouch. Yeah. We pay about $3K. But then again, our public school system is, um, not good unless you find and get into the pockets of good ones.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2013 8:00:29 GMT -5
I'm going to send her my DD for a week. If you tell DD not to put the plastic bag over her head, she will do it, while she looks you in the eye and watching for your reaction. Lol, I know. I try not to have too much fun when they are here and I watch her gently but exhaustedly explain WHY we can't climb a chair and try to catch the fish with our hands...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2013 8:02:59 GMT -5
I can see ourselves looking for ways to supplement DS's education, but in no way are either of us capable of homeschooling. We didn't move to this school district so we could pay $11k/year in property taxes and not send our kids to school. My mom knows the feeling, 12k last year for West Orange, NJ NJ is freaking insane when it comes to property taxes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2013 8:04:23 GMT -5
I can see ourselves looking for ways to supplement DS's education, but in no way are either of us capable of homeschooling. We didn't move to this school district so we could pay $11k/year in property taxes and not send our kids to school. We looked at different options. To get to a school I liked ( which actually WAS Sudbury! Style ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/smiley.png) ) ... We'd have to move, more expensive house, much higher taxes, very high tuition, we both would have had to work really competitively higher stress jobs to pay for it... Just wasn't the family life I wanted. Going slower, lower, less and me homeschooling made more sense to us in our position.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 19, 2013 8:13:38 GMT -5
An unschooled would not make them learn it if they had no interest in learning it.
Wow, really? That, IMO, sounds like you're going to shortchange your kid. It'd be a little late now for me to take calculus. There is no way I'd be able to have a career in science if I didn't "suck it up buttercup" and learn stuff I didn't like.
I couldn't operate on the faith my kid is going to magically want to learn everything they need to learn to get on in life.
Drama, kids actually do have the desire to learn stuff...
I never said they didn't. I said what do you do if your kid only has a desire to do one thing, like play WoWcraft all day.
Do you just hope she grows out of it and picks something else eventually? Do you convince yourself she's "learning" while playing WoW all day long?
Different strokes for different folks. I'm too much of a control freak to trust my kid is going to just want to learn and will learn certain things in a time frame that won't end up hobbling her later.
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milee
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Post by milee on Apr 19, 2013 8:18:22 GMT -5
I'm going to send her my DD for a week. If you tell DD not to put the plastic bag over her head, she will do it, while she looks you in the eye and watching for your reaction. Lol, I know. I try not to have too much fun when they are here and I watch her gently but exhaustedly explain WHY we can't climb a chair and try to catch the fish with our hands... DS #2 (the one that I'm pretty sure was switched at birth) would nod, smile and happily follow her gentle instruction. DS #1 would first try Swamp's daughter's method. After you peeled the bag off his blue head, he'd be very angry with you for interrupting his play. You'd have a brief period of unspoken power struggle while you watched him out of the corner of your eye and he was watching you out of the corner of his eye... both of you waiting to see who would lose focus, get distracted and allow an opening to go back to what you want to be doing first. When he grew tired of waiting for you to stop watching, he would appear to go off somewhere else and play, only to circle back a few minutes later when you'd moved on to another task and were no longer watching him. If that failed, he'd find another kid that wasn't being watched like a hawk and convince the other kid that he was the perfect candidate to try this fantastic experiment. And so on and so forth. If I can only help him to stay alive until adulthood, he is going to be a fantastically tenacious _______ (fill in the blank, hopefully with something good.) [img]http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png[/img]
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 19, 2013 8:21:52 GMT -5
Is your DS#1 my daughter in a male body, milee? You described her perfectly.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2013 8:22:01 GMT -5
Not all jobs require calculus. If the kid decided to go into a field which required calculus, at that point they are deciding to amass the prerequisites and would learn them. It really does happen that way ... I don't know how to convince you? When I just started homeschooling there was an unschooling mom just finishing up, her didn't read till 11 kid had grown and was then succeeding well at MIT... It really does happen.
yes, I know unschooling parents who do not restrict video games at all. Most of them say an interesting thing happens when it's not forced or an act of rebellion, kids get bored and move on once their interest is spent...
Frankly, I've been reading up in latest efforts in 'game' simulators, games being used as training models, etc. some interesting things going forward...
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milee
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Post by milee on Apr 19, 2013 8:24:16 GMT -5
A few weeks ago, DS#2 came running into the house shrieking, "Mom! MOM!!!!! _______ is using a flame thrower!!!'"
I ran outside to find DS #1 with a can of hair spray and a lighter. (He's been watching too much James Bond.) When I stopped him and started to talk to him about why that was dangerous, he was understanding but a little annoyed. His response, said with an exasperated teenage irritation, "Yeah, I'm not going to burn the house down. That's why I was doing this OUTSIDE. Sheesh, Mom."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2013 8:24:24 GMT -5
You DS #1 sounds just like my DD, milee! And, NomoreDramaQ1015, if the kid only wants to play WoW chances are pretty slim he/she would *want a job in the field of Science anyway. Edited from "get" to "want".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2013 8:27:46 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2013 8:31:28 GMT -5
No wrongside! Thanks. I'll have son check that out.
Im helping him teach Visual Basic for Windows at co op this session. He's relying heavily on the kid coder videos, lol, but he wanted to do it, and given his general reluctance to talk to a group, its going well.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2013 8:34:16 GMT -5
Yeah those Big Bang Science geeks never waste time with video games ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png)
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Apr 19, 2013 8:36:32 GMT -5
You DS #1 sounds just like my DD, milee! And, NomoreDramaQ1015, if the kid only wants to play WoW chances are pretty slim he/she would *want a job in the field of Science anyway. Edited from "get" to "want". Ok, lets see if I've got the theory correct - you believe in unschooling. Your kid wants to play WoW 16 hours a day. You let him. Eventually he/she gets bored with the standard scenarios available and starts figuring out how to build his own and upload them to the WoW community. To do this, he/she will need to learn web programming, scripting, mapping, etc. and they have probably joined groups/clans(whatever they are) and do online communicating (either via headset or IM) and will hear stuff and will go off and learn because someone in their group mentioned using calculus to determine something in WoW. So the kid will eventually learn calculus because an online friend introduced them to it. ETA - I think Drama's issue with this is a. waiting for the kid to find that trigger for calculus or whatever and b. what happens if it never comes. Drama's a science geek, basically, she wants her kid to have an interest in science in addition to whatever else interests her DD. And I'm making assumptions here so if flaming needs to happen, direct it at me and not Drama. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/grin.png)
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milee
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Post by milee on Apr 19, 2013 8:39:53 GMT -5
Drama and Beer, Your daughters will be OK. Love them, don't give up on them no matter how hard it is, try to keep from becoming bitter adversaries and just keep them alive. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/smiley.png) The first story (bag on the head example) was how DS was until about 8 or 9. He's 13 now and is becoming a really fantastic kid. We have a good relationship (not friends, he respects, trusts me and still confides in me), he listens and his judgment is getting much better. He's also started to get straight As - because he wants to and has decided it's important. As they get older, they discover how to use that awesome power and tenacity for good and it's wonderful to see as a parent. He's been one of the biggest challenges in my life and he's also been one of my biggest rewards. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/heart.png)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2013 8:44:43 GMT -5
Uh hem, because he wants to and has decided it's important? ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png) .... I really have been loving 14. So many great changes. Now 11 year old daughter on the other hand. Sigh. Love her, but she's an emotional wreck once a week, and can we spell manipulation...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2013 8:47:16 GMT -5
Now 11 year old daughter on the other hand. Sigh. Love her, but she's an emotional wreck once a week, and can we spell manipulation... in other words, a normal pre-teen girl.... ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png)
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 19, 2013 8:48:00 GMT -5
Yeah those Big Bang Science geeks never waste time with video games
We do, but we've also been formally educated. We can waste time with video games because we already know what we need to know. My boss was whipping out calculations I haven't seen since the last time I used a graphing calculator back in 2006. But since I know them I was able to grasp what we were discussing, apply it to what I needed to know and wrote my paper. If I hadn't I'd been three steps behind at the least because I'd have to go back and learn all the equations before I could analyze my data. I know physics uses a lot of calculus, one reason I stayed away from it as a career but it didn't occur to me back when I was sitting in class even years ago that I'd end up in a different field that is also heavily calculus dependent. It really does happen that way ... I don't know how to convince you?
But what if it DOESN'T? Look everyone's trying to convince me "public school doesn't work for everyone". Fine, I'm cool with that. My question is what if YOUR method doesn't work? What if you got a kid that unschooling just doesn't work for? I assume most parents would figure out a Plan B. Or do you just keep forcing the unschooling and hope it all works out in the end? Milee I'm not worried about the kid. I was just floored when I realized there is now a person on the planet that can out stubborn/out manuver me. Let's all hope she uses her powers for good! ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png)
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Apr 19, 2013 8:54:17 GMT -5
You DS #1 sounds just like my DD, milee! And, NomoreDramaQ1015, if the kid only wants to play WoW chances are pretty slim he/she would *want a job in the field of Science anyway. Edited from "get" to "want". Ok, lets see if I've got the theory correct - you believe in unschooling. Your kid wants to play WoW 16 hours a day. You let him. Eventually he/she gets bored with the standard scenarios available and starts figuring out how to build his own and upload them to the WoW community. To do this, he/she will need to learn web programming, scripting, mapping, etc. and they have probably joined groups/clans(whatever they are) and do online communicating (either via headset or IM) and will hear stuff and will go off and learn because someone in their group mentioned using calculus to determine something in WoW. So the kid will eventually learn calculus because an online friend introduced them to it. Here's my completely uneducated guess based on 1 toddler, and we're planning on public school fyi. Our house has been sick this week. Dh and I have pretty much begged the toddler to watch tv. He will and likes it, but gets bored very quickly. He cried when I wouldnt play in the snow with him, says no to movies, etc. He seems to have the personality to thrive at finding his own work and education. My sisters catholic middle school tried this approach and she didn't do any math for a year. Then with a basic tutor she got through 2 years of math in one summer. So each kid and situation is different. The parents who preach unschooling have kids who thrive in that environment. Lots of kids struggle in public school but not many people think we should abandon the concept altogether.
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milee
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Post by milee on Apr 19, 2013 8:54:24 GMT -5
Uh hem, because he wants to and has decided it's important? ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png) .... Exactly. As you can tell from my earlier posts, I'm a big believer in the theory of how powerful it is when kids want to do something. I'm also a big believer in knowing what works for my own kids and trying to put them into that situation. Unfortunately for my kids, unschooling wouldn't have worked because they had some initial challenges that stopped them from learning certain things they were interested in (like math.) If I had just completely backed off and kept him in an environment that completely respected his wish to not do math, he would now be a 13 year old that thinks he's bad at math, is slightly stupid and can't add or multiply. Instead, I worked with him, the schools, some child development specialists, etc. to figure out why he was having his issues. After we discovered why, it still wasn't an easy process because he had so much catching up to do. IMHO, unschooling isn't necessarily an unworkable, horrible idea. It's just risky. The success is highly dependant on variables (such as your child not having any learning disabilities or other mental/phyical issues) that you have little control over and may not have the training to even recognize. Let's be frank here. I'm a reasonably intelligent, educated person who loves her kid. I can tell you with certainty that if I were unschooling, I would not have had the background or ability to catch my sons' issues and they would have a good shot at making it to age 18 without knowing how to multiply. Not good. When I look around at the general population out there, I have a hard time believing I'm less capable than 90% of the people, so I suspect they would also have that risk and issues. Not good.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Apr 19, 2013 8:54:27 GMT -5
I assume like all parenting, you adjust to do what works for your kid. Like the AP parent who thinks she is going to babywear and her baby doesn't want to be worn or cosleep or whatever. So, she adjusts. Sure there are going to be parents that cram it down their kids' throats, but that is not the norm. The vast majority of parents adjust to what works best for their kids.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2013 8:56:08 GMT -5
First, not MY method. Although yeah I have to say, if I didn't have math kids, I would probably back off the higher math. Are you saying that if you take a kid who doesn't want to learn calc, nd force him too, you can turn him into a STEM grad? Are you saying if you put that kid in school, he will learn it and go that route? Aren't you the one constantly bitching about the idea that everyone needs a stem degree? What im saying is that if that kid WANTs a STEM degree, he'll learn it. If he doesn't, then who the hell cares if he knows calculus or not? I don't use calculus at all... I honestly wish I'd taken life skills math instead of calc in high school... Would have served me better...
what do you mean by 'forced unschooling'? I don't think you are getting the concept?
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Apr 19, 2013 8:59:11 GMT -5
I assume most parents would figure out a Plan B. Or do you just keep forcing the unschooling and hope it all works out in the end?
![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png) This is the same as any schooling situation. Hopefully parents try to find a better option. Some don't care, and it could be left up to the kid to decide if they want more out of life. Oped-what happens in your state if the kids don't keep up with the required home school standards? Are they ever forced to go into public school?
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