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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2013 8:14:06 GMT -5
No, but it is an interesting question, nonetheless.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 15, 2013 8:20:39 GMT -5
No, but it is an interesting question, nonetheless. Thank you.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Apr 15, 2013 8:24:03 GMT -5
can we please get back to bashing Paul for complaining that 2 year old story is not currently being covered in the news? Pity... and here I was thinking that watching folks make excuses for Abortionists-Gone-Mad was gonna be entertaining... Who, here, has made excuses for Gosnell's atrocious behavior, Tony? Who, here, has claimed it was other than atrocious?
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 15, 2013 11:25:07 GMT -5
Pity... and here I was thinking that watching folks make excuses for Abortionists-Gone-Mad was gonna be entertaining... Who, here, has made excuses for Gosnell's atrocious behavior, Tony? Who, here, has claimed it was other than atrocious? He's referring to my comments about the culpability of the parents. I'm playing Devil's advocate, arguing that not all the blame resides with Dr. Gosnell. And although Tony is right in a sense that I'm "mak[ing] excuses", I don't consider Dr. Gosnell's actions any more excusable than those of a hired hitman. Mainly I'm marveling at the difference a few weeks makes. For a week or two later we find "string him up by the balls" outrage, murder trials, wailing and gnashing of teeth; for a week or two earlier we find "humanist of the year" awards, a thriving chain of abortion clinics, and high national honours. All hinging on the statistical likelihood of viability outside the womb for a short time. It's absurd, but I at least count it a blessing that infanticide still isn't tolerated by most. And billisonboard, I certainly haven't forgotten our debate in the "after-birth abortion" thread where you unabashedly argued for the right to infanticide.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Apr 15, 2013 11:30:50 GMT -5
Who, here, has made excuses for Gosnell's atrocious behavior, Tony? Who, here, has claimed it was other than atrocious? He's referring to my comments about the culpability of the parents. I'm playing Devil's advocate, arguing that not all the blame resides with Dr. Gosnell. And although Tony is right in a sense that I'm "mak[ing] excuses", I don't consider Dr. Gosnell's actions any more excusable than those of a hired hitman. Mainly I'm marveling at the difference a few weeks makes. For a week or two later we find "string him up by the balls" outrage, murder trials, wailing and gnashing of teeth; for a week or two earlier we find "humanist of the year" awards, a thriving chain of abortion clinics, and high national honours. All hinging on the statistical likelihood of viability outside the womb for a short time. It's absurd, but I at least count it a blessing that infanticide still isn't tolerated by most. And billisonboard, I certainly haven't forgotten our debate in the "after-birth abortion" thread where you unabashedly argued for the right to infanticide. If that's the case, Virgil, Tony needs to say what he means rather than throwing out a comment that indicates something has been said that has not been said. Because there may be extenuating circumstances or, in this case, other wrongs involved, someone pointing out those circumstances or other wrong is not making excuses for Gosnell. That poster is simply pointing out additional matters involved. There is no way any thinking person would think otherwise. Any accusation against you which states you have excused Gosnell is poppycock, pure and simple. That said, you're guessing he's talking about your comment. He may not be, and may present another example of a poster excusing Gosnell. We'll have to wait and see.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 15, 2013 11:52:55 GMT -5
It is. But several posters accused me of defending NAMBLA in the "Pedophilia: Sexual Orientation" thread under the same circumstances.
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 15, 2013 12:23:38 GMT -5
It is. But several posters accused me of defending NAMBLA in the "Pedophilia: Sexual Orientation" thread under the same circumstances. BS. we accused you of impugning 21% of the US population. nothing more or less. i never for one instant thought you supported/defended NAMBLA, only that you were operating under the mistaken notion that anyone else here, either tacitly or by association, did.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Apr 15, 2013 12:53:23 GMT -5
Heart is beating in 14 days. These are LATE term abortions. Who knows- maybe the poor victim was butchered before being dragged out to be "dealt with" by the nurse? No. The fetal heart is not beating in 14 days, paul. Don't just make things up. Learn something before you post things like this. mmhmm - the heart starts beating around 18 days after conception (approx 5 weeks pregannt). www.babycenter.com/6_your-pregnancy-5-weeks_1094.bc?intcmp=timelineSpots for eyes can be seen at 6 weeks. By 14 weeks, where I am, the kid has reflexes, can suck on his thumb, make faces, eyes and mouth are clearly visible: www.babycenter.com/6_your-pregnancy-14-weeks_1103.bc?intcmp=timeline
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 15, 2013 13:07:28 GMT -5
It is. But several posters accused me of defending NAMBLA in the "Pedophilia: Sexual Orientation" thread under the same circumstances. BS. we accused you of impugning 21% of the US population. nothing more or less. i never for one instant thought you supported/defended NAMBLA, only that you were operating under the mistaken notion that anyone else here, either tacitly or by association, did. I wasn't referring to you. In your case, you insisted that only people with a "valid political or social philosophy" could be liberals. Since I maintained my argument was that NAMBLA was a liberal organization, you claimed that I must either consider pedophilia to be consistent with a "valid political or social philosophy", or believe that "liberalism is logically invalid prima facie", neither of which is the case.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Apr 15, 2013 13:08:18 GMT -5
I'm aware of that, Sam. It's part of what I do. That's why I corrected paul's statement. It was not factual.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Apr 15, 2013 13:09:10 GMT -5
I simply had to update this thread title to reflect more recent, more highly relevant information as to why there is a media blackout of this story... chicksontheright.com/posts/item/24081-how-inconveeeeeeenient-eric-holder-s-wife-co-owns-clinic-of-indicted-abortionistHolder’s ties to the abortion industry explain a lot – his attacks against pro-life activists and that he looks the other way on abortion industry skulduggery. Details Anderson: Critics say it may also explain why Holder has been eager to prosecute pro-life advocates who counsel women outside abortion clinics…. “There is a clear conflict of interest when the man charged with pursuing those that abuse the system is also one who is engaged in some way with the business,” said Davis, whose organization brought the issue to the attention of Watchdog…. In recent months, judges have blocked Holder’s efforts to punish pro-life supporters counseling women outside abortion clinics. In one case, Holder’s Department of Justice agreed to pay Mary “Susan” Pine $120,000 for its filing of an “improper lawsuit” against her, according to a statement by Liberty Counsel, an Orlando, Fla.-based nonprofit legal firm. Pine counseled women on the sidewalk outside a Florida abortion clinic…. Karen Handel, the former secretary of state in Georgia and a former senior vice president of public policy for the Susan G. Komen Center, said she was “shocked” by the findings of the Watchdog investigation. “It certainly underscores the deep ties the Obama Administration has to the abortion issue,” said Handel, author of the new book, Planned Bullyhood: The Truth Behind the Headlines about the Planned Parenthood Funding Battle with Susan G. Komen for the Cure. “This certainly seems to shed some additional light into why Obama and his team seem obsessed with protecting Planned Parenthood and abortion rights at the expense of other important issues in the country.”… Davis pointed to cases in which activists have sued Planned Parenthood for alleged Medicaid fraud – in Georgia, Iowa, Texas, New York, and Massachusetts – but where Holder’s Justice Department has failed to act. “The U.S. attorney general has not at all pursued a case against any of them, including this one in Georgia where his wife owns the property,” Davis said. Also add to the mix the DOJ’s October decision not to investigate an Indiana abortion clinic Allen Country Right to Life alleges is violating the Americans with Disabilities Act.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 15, 2013 13:09:40 GMT -5
Thread name change.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Apr 15, 2013 13:09:45 GMT -5
I'm aware of that, Sam. It's part of what I do. That's why I corrected paul's statement. It was not factual. How's my last post for factual. Chew on that.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 15, 2013 13:10:16 GMT -5
5 weeks (35 days) is a fairly loose approximation of 18 days
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Apr 15, 2013 13:10:46 GMT -5
BS. we accused you of impugning 21% of the US population. nothing more or less. i never for one instant thought you supported/defended NAMBLA, only that you were operating under the mistaken notion that anyone else here, either tacitly or by association, did. I wasn't referring to you. In your case, you insisted that only people with a "valid political or social philosophy" could be liberals. Since I maintained my argument was that NAMBLA was a liberal organization, you claimed that I must either consider pedophilia to be consistent with a "valid political or social philosophy", or believe that "liberalism is logically invalid prima facie", neither of which is the case. I still contend NAMBLA isn't a political orginization, at all. NAMBLA is an organization for perverts who would like to be seen as having a real case for abusing children. That's all it is. It's not liberal. It's not conservative. It's not libertarian. It's garbage, it's depraved, it's disgusting, and it's dead-damned-wrong!
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Apr 15, 2013 13:15:48 GMT -5
What in the Seven Halls of Hell, does an abortion clinic in Georgia have to do with the original post in this thread, paul, and who in the hell are "chicksontheright"? This is getting ridiculous. If you want to discuss Gosnell, please continue. This is not going to turn into a generally-directed abortion thread. Ain't happening. We've done that turkey to death, but if you want to continue find an old thread on it and continue. This one will NOT change in mid-stream.
mmhmm, P&M Moderator
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Apr 15, 2013 13:16:59 GMT -5
virgil - the first two weeks of pregnancy are before ovulation, the way most doctors count. So conception happens at the end of the 2nd week, beginning of the third. They count from last menstural period to make it easier since most don't know their ovulation dates.
Question on the photo - kgb, you said cameras are not allowed. It looks like someone snapped that pic with a cell phone the way it is down low. Could it be someone did something like that? Just curious.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Apr 15, 2013 13:17:45 GMT -5
I'm aware of that, Sam. It's part of what I do. That's why I corrected paul's statement. It was not factual. How's my last post for factual. Chew on that. I don't have to chew on that, paul. It's irrelevant to the original purpose of this thread. See my latest post. We are NOT going to have another general topic on abortion. I'll start deleting if I have to do so. mmhmm, P&M Moderator
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Apr 15, 2013 13:19:24 GMT -5
Wait, so Holder's wife owns the property that the clinic sits on (so she's the LL and not in the abortion business herself)? And not the Gosnell clinic, but another one in GA?
Time for me to get back out of P&M. I can't keep up here.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Apr 15, 2013 13:26:21 GMT -5
What in the Seven Halls of Hell, does an abortion clinic in Georgia have to do with the original post in this thread, paul, and who in the hell are "chicksontheright"? This is getting ridiculous. If you want to discuss Gosnell, please continue. This is not going to turn into a generally-directed abortion thread. Ain't happening. We've done that turkey to death, but if you want to continue find an old thread on it and continue. This one will NOT change in mid-stream. mmhmm, P&M Moderator I'll switch the topic back to media blackout- but this is definitely relevant to the media blackout.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Apr 15, 2013 13:28:33 GMT -5
can we please get back to bashing Paul for complaining that 2 year old story is not currently being covered in the news? I believe he was referring to the coverage of the Trial of Dr. Gosnell which started in March 2013. Which dj would know if there was some damn media coverage of the story... (in the low information voter press)
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Apr 15, 2013 13:29:30 GMT -5
And while I realize this is more for the religion board, what in the hell are the seven halls of hell?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 15, 2013 13:38:14 GMT -5
I believe he was referring to the coverage of the Trial of Dr. Gosnell which started in March 2013. Which dj would know if there was some damn media coverage of the story but there is. the articles have been posted here. i know about the trial, Paul. it is VERY rare that Trials are considered newsworthy. maybe this one is. the (liberal) Atlantic seems to think so.... (in the low information voter press) what? FOX is not reporting on it?
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 15, 2013 13:39:29 GMT -5
virgil - the first two weeks of pregnancy are before ovulation, the way most doctors count. So conception happens at the end of the 2nd week, beginning of the third. They count from last menstural period to make it easier since most don't know their ovulation dates. Question on the photo - kgb, you said cameras are not allowed. It looks like someone snapped that pic with a cell phone the way it is down low. Could it be someone did something like that? Just curious. I did not know that. Curious that a woman could be considered 'pregnant' even before she's conceived a child, but conventions are what they are.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Apr 15, 2013 13:39:32 GMT -5
Thank you, paul, for changing the title. The Seven Halls of Hell is a saying I picked up from my grandmother. It had to do with the home in which she grew up. I don't really know the story behind it, and I don't think my mother does, either. The saying just stuck with me.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2013 13:42:23 GMT -5
virgil - the first two weeks of pregnancy are before ovulation, the way most doctors count. So conception happens at the end of the 2nd week, beginning of the third. They count from last menstural period to make it easier since most don't know their ovulation dates. Question on the photo - kgb, you said cameras are not allowed. It looks like someone snapped that pic with a cell phone the way it is down low. Could it be someone did something like that? Just curious. An important point when people talk about the distinctions between early and late term abortions. People think that women are just twiddling their thumbs for months before they decide to terminate a pregnancy. Many women don't know they are pregnant until 8 or more weeks gestation.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Apr 15, 2013 13:44:21 GMT -5
virgil - the first two weeks of pregnancy are before ovulation, the way most doctors count. So conception happens at the end of the 2nd week, beginning of the third. They count from last menstural period to make it easier since most don't know their ovulation dates. Question on the photo - kgb, you said cameras are not allowed. It looks like someone snapped that pic with a cell phone the way it is down low. Could it be someone did something like that? Just curious. I did not know that. Curious that a woman could be considered 'pregnant' even before she's conceived a child, but conventions are what they are. It's kinda confusing, Virgil. There's date of conception, and there's date of implantation. Since most don't know the date of conception, or the date of implantation, doctors generally use the first day of the last period to determine a due date. It's just not an exact science.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2013 13:45:07 GMT -5
Well there is coverage now. I even saw some courtroom photos from the trial today. That would be those courtroom photos that are not allowed in Pennsylvania.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 15, 2013 14:02:50 GMT -5
I did not know that. Curious that a woman could be considered 'pregnant' even before she's conceived a child, but conventions are what they are. It's kinda confusing, Virgil. There's date of conception, and there's date of implantation. Since most don't know the date of conception, or the date of implantation, doctors generally use the first day of the last period to determine a due date. It's just not an exact science. this is why RU486 is controversial in the US- because it is NOT a contraceptive. mmhmm- what % of the time does a fertilized egg NOT implant? do you have stats on that?
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TonyTiger
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Post by TonyTiger on Apr 15, 2013 14:03:33 GMT -5
Pity... and here I was thinking that watching folks make excuses for Abortionists-Gone-Mad was gonna be entertaining... Who, here, has made excuses for Gosnell's atrocious behavior, Tony? Who, here, has claimed it was other than atrocious? Virgil was making excuses for the Abortionist. But, as he mentioned here earlier today, he was playing the Devil's Advocate. I half-suspected that was the case - Virgil and I don't see eye-to-eye on a number of issues but that (such advocacy) didn't sound like what little I know of him. So, I asked, in no uncertain terms: You aren't really serious, are you? And then moved on to point out how wrong I feel that such defense and advocacy is. There are a few of our colleagues who have defended late-term abortions and infanticide under various circumstances, and that was meant as much for their eyes as for Virgil's. I was, indeed, remarking upon Virgil's defense of the bastard. But I was also entirely ready to believe that he was serving-up an object lesson rather than genuinely advocating for such, and I offered-up an "out", half-expecting that I was reading that wrong, and that there was some kind of lesson-teaching or argumentative device at-work that I wasn't seeing. Notice that I said that I believe that any such position was dead-wrong, and that a line should be drawn in the sand to disallow such things, but... I did not resort to attacking the poster... being on uncertain ground as to whether I was looking at something out-of-character or whether I'd missed something earlier and this was truly a position that he felt comfortable with. Perhaps that will be of some use to you... or not... it's a matter of complete indifference to me.
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