Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Apr 12, 2013 14:34:51 GMT -5
Wouldn't you need lungs to scream? Don't the eyes and mouth develop before the lungs? I thought the lungs were the last thing to develop. I know a lot of premies - and they all have eyes and mouths. And almost all of them had to stay in the hospital because their lungs weren't developed yet. Heart is beating in 14 days. These are LATE term abortions. Who knows- maybe the poor victim was butchered before being dragged out to be "dealt with" by the nurse? Then it wouldn't have been screaming would it.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 12, 2013 14:37:23 GMT -5
Hearts don't scream. You need air and vocal chords to make a scream.
If these are LATE term abortions - why don't these babies have eyes? Eyes come at like 25 weeks or something like that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2013 14:48:57 GMT -5
I think the issue isn't the formation of the fetus (unless that was the reason for the late term abortion). Late term abortion is a grim business, and does involve severing pieces of the fetus' body in order to extract it from the uterus. But this guy was a quack and didn't do the procedure properly, so what was extracted wasn't pieces of a fetus but a predominantly intact fetus, which upon removal from the womb became a predominantly intact baby.
So the lack of eyes could be a congential malformation or a byproduct of the botched abortion. I'm sure we could google more info, but I feel like I have enough of an idea that I'd just assume not.
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usaone
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Post by usaone on Apr 12, 2013 15:54:35 GMT -5
Its been on our local news almost every day here in Philly.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 12, 2013 20:23:57 GMT -5
the Atlantic said almost exactly the same thing. principled liberals abound, if you are open to the idea.
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Apr 12, 2013 20:49:47 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2013 23:20:26 GMT -5
*groan* This is anything but a "major" national news event, but it has been covered in the media. It's murder. There are murders committed every day world-wide. Must we wade through the gory details of all of them? Not everyone scours the internet for news of blood and gore, paul. It takes a "special" person to do that. I completely disagree that this is not or rather should not be a "major " news event. It was not simply a murder. It was multiple murders and torture. It has not been covered as a major news event because of the politics involved. It is a very sad day imho when systematic torture and murder of innocents in Philly is not a major news story.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Apr 12, 2013 23:36:44 GMT -5
It was a story when it was a story, xmascookie. It happened in 2010 and the news broke in 2011. It was thoroughly covered then. I remember it. All that's going on now is the trial and it is being covered. CBS did a story on it today.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 13, 2013 0:20:19 GMT -5
mmhmm- but CPAC brought it back from the dead, and therefore it has been ignored by abortion loving liberuls. wake up, you communist!
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 13, 2013 0:24:47 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2013 1:35:39 GMT -5
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Apr 13, 2013 7:15:03 GMT -5
the Atlantic said almost exactly the same thing. principled liberals abound, if you are open to the idea. I grew up in a family of Democrats. I know they're out there. The Party, OTHO, is unhinged.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Apr 13, 2013 7:29:33 GMT -5
Solved. It should have been obvious- but the real reason the media are avoiding this story like the plague is that it brings up the President's extreme position on abortion. I think some people would rather not recall the fact that while he was in the Illinois State Capitol, he voted to deny legal protection to infants that survive abortions. The incident at the center of the law was an Illinois abortionist that left a baby who survived an abortion to die in a janitorial supply closet. Obama voted against ALL bills that would place any kind of restriction on abortion including a law that would have required medical care be given to infants that survive abortions. When asked, Obama stated that his reasoning was that if it was the mothers intention to abort the baby, then that's what should happen- in other words, if the baby is born alive but the mother doesn't want the baby, the baby should be denied care and left to die. This is all fact. And while I've read a lot of spin on the topic- when you cut through all the bullshit and mainly when you listen to Obama's own words-- he stands with Dr. Kermit Gosnell on the disposition of babies who survive abortions. So, once again we have the lamestream press conspiring to protect Obama from his own record.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2013 8:33:13 GMT -5
I can't believe some of you trying to defend this guy without actual facts. My son came out crying at 27 weeks. If these are late term abortions and the baby had been cut up by the doctor, the story is completely plausible. If you feel the need to defend a guy called a "butcher", get the facts first.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Apr 13, 2013 8:38:59 GMT -5
Who have you seen defending Gosnell, investorbob? Please, direct me to that post.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2013 8:40:31 GMT -5
All the posts of people trying to discredit witness statements of screaming, mangled babies. It's a significant chunk of this thread.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Apr 13, 2013 8:54:40 GMT -5
Because people are arguing that a baby without a mouth cannot scream, investorbob, does not mean they are supporting Gosnell. That logic just doesn't hold. There's no connection between those two stances. I haven't seen one post in which the poster has supported Gosnell's actions. Not one. You're way off base here.
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Apr 13, 2013 9:06:40 GMT -5
"When asked, Obama stated that his reasoning was that if it was the mothers intention to abort the baby, then that's what should happen- in other words, if the baby is born alive but the mother doesn't want the baby, the baby should be denied care and left to die. This is all fact."
Prove it. Show me a quoted statement that Obama ever said this. I think once again, you are stooping to lying to make a point.
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Apr 13, 2013 9:07:48 GMT -5
OBAMA: "I have said repeatedly that I would have been completely in, fully in support of the federal bill that everybody supported – which was to say – that you should provide assistance to any infant that was born – even if it was as a consequence of an induced abortion. That was not the bill that was presented at the state level. What that bill also was doing was trying to undermine Roe vs. Wade." thinkprogress.org/election/2012/08/27/747511/gingrich-huckabee-obama-abortion/?mobile=nc
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Apr 13, 2013 9:15:41 GMT -5
All the posts of people trying to discredit witness statements of screaming, mangled babies. It's a significant chunk of this thread. I don't believe anyone is supporting the guy. If the charges have even the slightest merit to them, the guy should be drawn and quartered in my book. This is not what prochoice is about. You do have to admit though, some of the testimony, particularly about this "screaming" infant is bizarre and doesn't really make sense.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Apr 13, 2013 9:26:59 GMT -5
I'm betting the woman who gave the testimony regarding the screaming infant wasn't perjuring herself. As I understand it, the clinic wasn't staffed with professional medical personnel. These weren't licensed nurses. They were laymen, "trained" by the doctor or other laymen who were "trained" by the doctor. A layman, seeing the results of something like this would probably be pretty traumatized. What she thinks she saw and what she actually saw are probably two different things because of her emotional condition at the time. It sure wouldn't surprise me if this were the case. What was going on in there, if it was as it's been described, was horrific.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Apr 13, 2013 9:36:44 GMT -5
Wouldn't you need lungs to scream? Don't the eyes and mouth develop before the lungs? I thought the lungs were the last thing to develop. I know a lot of premies - and they all have eyes and mouths. And almost all of them had to stay in the hospital because their lungs weren't developed yet. Heart is beating in 14 days. These are LATE term abortions. Who knows- maybe the poor victim was butchered before being dragged out to be "dealt with" by the nurse? No. The fetal heart is not beating in 14 days, paul. Don't just make things up. Learn something before you post things like this.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Apr 13, 2013 10:39:31 GMT -5
It's being covered here, as well, deminmaine, as it was covered when the horrors were discovered. This is all a tempest in a teapot, as usual. There's no conspiracy that I can see. If one wants to read the gory details again, there are plenty of sources, both mainstream and otherwise. I, personally, remember when the case broke in 2011. I have no need to slog through it again.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Apr 13, 2013 10:40:06 GMT -5
I can't imagine anyone who might have missed it. I remember it quite well. Too well.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 13, 2013 11:56:28 GMT -5
the Atlantic said almost exactly the same thing. principled liberals abound, if you are open to the idea. I grew up in a family of Democrats. I know they're out there. The Party, OTHO, is unhinged. the party should focus on Democratic ideals instead of sucking up to powerful interests, imo. but it is not my party to criticize. i will leave that to Democrats. i only have the bitspace for criticizing my own party.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 13, 2013 11:58:21 GMT -5
Ah the "Lamestream" media again. My local "Lamestream" newspaper carried extensive coverage when the story broke. There was a big story in it today about the trial. I didn't read it. I wanted to enjoy my eggs. My local newspaper is often accused by readers writing to the editorial page of being a "Liberal Rag", and "Lamestream", funny, the same terms bandied about here. It is curious to me how they all intone the same catch phrases and tag lines, like some sort of group think. But this newspaper has a variety of columnists, including Charles Krauthammer, George Will and Jonah.... can't think of his last name- the editor of the conservative National Review magazine. Hardly flaming liberals, any of them. Goldberg. a true nutsack.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Apr 13, 2013 12:21:42 GMT -5
Ah the "Lamestream" media again. My local "Lamestream" newspaper carried extensive coverage when the story broke. There was a big story in it today about the trial. I didn't read it. I wanted to enjoy my eggs. My local newspaper is often accused by readers writing to the editorial page of being a "Liberal Rag", and "Lamestream", funny, the same terms bandied about here. It is curious to me how they all intone the same catch phrases and tag lines, like some sort of group think. But this newspaper has a variety of columnists, including Charles Krauthammer, George Will and Jonah.... can't think of his last name- the editor of the conservative National Review magazine. Hardly flaming liberals, any of them. Goldberg. a true nutsack. So is his mother.
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kgb18
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Post by kgb18 on Apr 13, 2013 21:20:24 GMT -5
I'm too tired to weigh in on this very weighty topic, but I do question the picture of the supposed "reserved media section" in the courtroom. Cameras are not permitted in courtrooms in Pennsylvania.
ETA: The AP and Pennsylvania news outlets have been covering this trial since it began in March, and there was coverage when the story first broke quite some time ago. Most newspapers subscribe to the AP and therefore have access to the stories.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Apr 13, 2013 21:29:31 GMT -5
I read the grand jury report. I've read plenty and that was one of the most disturbing reports I've ever read. The level of bureaucratic inertia/incompetence/laziness/not my jobism is astounding.
However, back to the Point of th OP, I've heard about this story, so I'm not sure why you're saying this story has been ignored.
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kgb18
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Post by kgb18 on Apr 13, 2013 21:49:46 GMT -5
I couldn't help myself. I've been doing a little research. It's interesting that, from what I can see, some of the media outlets who are criticizing the "mainstream media" haven't covered it either. The Washington Times has exactly two articles that show up in a search of their site. The first is an opinion piece criticizing the lack of coverage, and it seems to be the impetus for a lot of the criticism floating around. The second is an article from nearly two years ago. (A search of their site initially looks like there are pages of stories referencing this case, but each "hit" is a actually picking up a link that runs down the side of their website that takes you to the most recent opinion piece.)
Fox News has only started really covering this case this week. Ross Douthat was quick to criticize the lack of coverage in his New York Times column, yet that's the first he's ever mentioned it.
I think this is an important story that deserves to be covered. But where have all of these other people been if they think it's such a travesty that the case hasn't gotten more national attention?
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