midjd
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Post by midjd on Apr 5, 2013 9:16:01 GMT -5
Yeah, there seems to be a lot of "OMG you guys are meanies!" going around lately. I don't see it. There have been pretty harsh comments on almost every thread made about job changes, income changes, should I/shouldn't I retire, etc. - but unless the target is popular, it doesn't seem to bother anyone.
I do think that the horse is out of the barn so there's not much point in dwelling on it, but if all you (the general you) want is hearts and flowers and rainbows and validation, YM probably isn't the place.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Apr 5, 2013 9:22:56 GMT -5
You can explain all you want and I have heard it all before but the mature thing to have done is given two weekw notice like a big boy. All this looks like to me is childish and bratty behaviour. And if ever there was an expert on childish and bratty!! ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2013 9:23:12 GMT -5
I did something similar to Dark Honor when I was working at a CPA firm. I had gotten great evaluations for 3 years and then I worked for a manager that I just didn't get a long with and I knew he was going to give me a bad review. I couldn't take the thought of it and I quit before he was able to write up the review.
Luckily I was still living with my parents, though. No one at the firm could understand why I quit.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 5, 2013 9:25:04 GMT -5
Telephus we feel similar towards our BIL. He knew for years his job at his former company sucked and was going downhill. Then he decides to get a new job. Doesn't like this job but instead of sucking it up and looking while still at this job he quit because he was "unhappy".
He's had plenty of time to make less impulsive decisions but instead he waited till the pot boiled over.
DH is kinda steamed because he knows if he did that his parents would rip him a new one. But his mom is full of excuses/support for BIL despite the fact BIL has two kids, a mortage and a substanial amount of debt compared to us.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2013 9:27:12 GMT -5
I see your point (although I don't remember your asking about scaling down hours). I'm not OK with Dark up and quitting his job and I'm REALLY not OK with him not following through with other possible offers, but I fail to see the point in harping on how it was bratty and childish to quit the way that he did. I also don't have to live with him, so take that for what it's worth.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Apr 5, 2013 9:31:08 GMT -5
Then they give 2 weeks pay. Same differance. Since when? I have never heard of someone getting two weeks pay for being fired. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/huh.gif) I got paid for the last couple days in the month and the following month. They also didn't contest unemployment. However in WV you have to be fired for something like physically assaulting someone or stealing something to not qualify for unemployment. I'd been unhappy for awhile and was trying to decide if I wanted to look for another job in the field or a different field altogether. I wasn't fast enough in making my decision. I had been there less than a year and didn't feel comfortable making a ton of assumptions on compilation/review jobs. I was awesome at tax/audit. There was zero training provided. I was often given assignments and told yes, you lack the experience/training for this but it is all we have to do right now. It just wasn't a good fit for me. You either had enough experience to make it when you were hired or you'd wash out under my manager. It set me back financially in a big way but I ended up in a better place. My worst day here is better than a good day there. I wished a thousand times I'd quit without lining something up. It was a rough job market with less than a year's experience and no cpa license and having to say yes, I'd been fired. ETA: I'd had a glowing, perfect review at the end of January and by the end of July I was gone. The partner I worked for signed off on my CPA license in 2011 for the months I worked for him.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 5, 2013 9:37:28 GMT -5
I kinda wish I had run for the hills way before I did when I had that job in the surgery department. There were huge warning signs/red flags I chose to ignore because I needed the job.
Fortunately it worked out, to get me to leave they offered me two months severance and the disciplinary note would disappear from my file.
I landed my job here shortly after my severance ran out. I really like this job and I've learned a very broad based skill set. who knows if I would have landed this job if I had quit earlier.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Apr 5, 2013 9:41:37 GMT -5
Telephus, you are right, one does get different advice depending on who they are and how new they are to the message board. I wish people weren't so harsh to (new) posters, but I can only control my own behavior. When you posted though it must have been before the decision. I think Dark would have gotten different responses if he had asked for advice before quitting versus reporting he had quit. Not sure about the rainbows and unicorns because I've noticed a mixed response. Some trashing him for how he did it, some supportive with no rainbows, and some saying those rainbows are in his future. I rarely post on Doxie threads anymore because it mostly attracts those who want to bash her. I don't agree with many of her choices but wish I had her ability to attract jobs into my world with the ease she seems to. So much like real life here in a way. Some people assume the worst if they don't know you. Some bash you just for kicks or because for whatever reason your situation brings something out in them. A well-liked person and a disliked person do the same thing and get different responses. I do my best to be even-handed, but I do fail sometimes. Especially on P&M. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/shucks2.png)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2013 9:44:36 GMT -5
FWIW, I've had jobs that I hated. I used to cry at least once a week when I worked as a bank teller. SO many times I wanted to quit, but I didn't want to move back home. So I took every opportunity at home to look for new work. Then I found it. It too became unbearable (not as bad as the bank though), and then I found my job at my current company. I couldn't see quitting back before I had a husband and dependents - unless I was being severely abused, I can't fathom voluntarily leaving my job without having something else lined up. Dark, you only live once - make it worth it, for you and your family.
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milee
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Post by milee on Apr 5, 2013 9:50:29 GMT -5
I think Dark would have gotten different responses if he had asked for advice before quitting versus reporting he had quit. Very true. It's reasonable that some people are answering in the spirit of what's-done-is-done and no use kicking someone when the decision has been made. From that standpoint, I wish DH and his family the best and think in the long term they'll be just fine. But yes, if DH had asked the board in advance, the recommendations probably would have been more direct and possibly appear harsh.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2013 10:01:00 GMT -5
Going on a PIP soon, you were done anyway, but it sounds like most of the things were ticky tack and at least unemployment payments would have been obtainable if you stuck around for the firing. So bravo for the moral victory, but what a financial mindf*ck. MMC - he lives in CA, remember? He can likely still file for unemployement and claim (rightfully so I believe in this case) a hostile work environment ESPECIALLY since he did let his supervisor know he was going for a medical appt. I live in California too. Hostile work environment for a white male who probably has little documentation is a non-starter. The supervisor could say they forgot or confused by timezones, or whatever. Without documentation of a pattern of behavior, he would have nothing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2013 10:04:39 GMT -5
Some people do recover from a PIP. Sticking around and trying to get fired really is only valuable if you need the money *AND* it won't hurt your future employment prospects to be fired. Even dealing with a known bottom feeder company being fired would not be a choice I would make if I had Dark's financial resources. You look for non-government employment or investors and you now have a delicate PR problem. At our company, it is 26% finish their 90 day PIP and remain employed. Of the 74% that are unsuccessful, 38% quit on their own within 30 days. 43% the company desides to terminate. The remaining leave on their own somewhere between the 30-90 day period. So yes, so people do. 1/4th at our company. It is an uphill battle though.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2013 10:08:36 GMT -5
Yeah, there seems to be a lot of "OMG you guys are meanies!" going around lately. I don't see it. There have been pretty harsh comments on almost every thread made about job changes, income changes, should I/shouldn't I retire, etc. - but unless the target is popular, it doesn't seem to bother anyone. I do think that the horse is out of the barn so there's not much point in dwelling on it, but if all you (the general you) want is hearts and flowers and rainbows and validation, YM probably isn't the place. I think the "you guys are meanies" stuff comes up when we jump over the person instead of the behavior. Dark jumped without a net, and he's gotten a lot of "that was a bad decision, hope it doesn't bite you in the ass too hard." That's just YM being YM. To me, that's different than saying he behaved like a child when none of us actually witnessed his behavior. Telling Carl "this house is a bad idea for your life today and your future family" is different from saying he is somehow unfit to parent. And it is mean. For what it's worth, telling Doxie that "keeping Herbie is irresponsible" is different from calling her a brat or questioning her parenting. Because that is mean too. I'm not opposed to being mean - heck, I'm mean - but I think we should know when we are doing it. And I'm not convinced that certain posters are exempted from the meanness, they are just more likely to have someone willing to come to their defense when their turn comes up.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2013 10:16:38 GMT -5
Hi, I'm new here. My wife has been a SAHM for the past 12 years or so, but just got a temp job. I make a six figure salary and carry the benefits to support my two children. But today I just quit my job because I get bored at work. We're only $1k in the hole each month, and I can always use my 401k. I'm not even going to look for another job, I'm just going to find some business plan and work for myself. can I get a high five and a round of congrats, because its all going to work out for the best? that seemed kind of mean.... Hey, I liked it because I thought it was funny. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/idunno.gif)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2013 10:19:19 GMT -5
things can be funny AND mean... ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png)
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Apr 5, 2013 10:19:49 GMT -5
Maybe it's splitting hairs, but the comments I remember (too lazy to go back and check) seemed to be more in the tenor of "that was a childish thing to do" rather than "you acted like a child." And I certainly don't remember anyone telling Carl he would be a bad parent - just questioning his decision/desire to have kids.
At any rate, they're both big boys and appear to be able to defend themselves if someone crosses the line. Having half a dozen posters jump all over anyone who dares to go against the "good job, you rock" party line seems like overkill.
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2kids10horses
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Post by 2kids10horses on Apr 5, 2013 10:23:23 GMT -5
Guys, guys, guys...
Here's the real reason Dark quit:
He's been coaching Looney on running her business, right? And in spite of all his teaching, she's managed to continue to be super successful managing her melons her own way.
So, Dark had an epiphany! Open a melon stand! If it works for tLooney, it's gotta work for Dark Honor! Start a farm, raise Amish chickens, it's all here, documented on the Board!
Dark, don't forget to get that security camera! Gotta watch those hands! Be sure to open up close to a WalMart for inventory.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 5, 2013 10:28:37 GMT -5
If it works for tLooney, it's gotta work for Dark Honor! Start a farm, raise Amish chickens, it's all here, documented on the Board!
![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/rofl.gif)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2013 10:31:46 GMT -5
Amish chickens? Do they have to wear bonnets?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 5, 2013 10:33:51 GMT -5
Make sure he only buys mint condition blueberries!
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Apr 5, 2013 10:34:33 GMT -5
things can be funny AND mean... ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png) I hope so...I'd hate to think I'm just mean ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png)
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Apr 5, 2013 10:56:25 GMT -5
Some people do recover from a PIP. Sticking around and trying to get fired really is only valuable if you need the money *AND* it won't hurt your future employment prospects to be fired. Even dealing with a known bottom feeder company being fired would not be a choice I would make if I had Dark's financial resources. You look for non-government employment or investors and you now have a delicate PR problem. At our company, it is 26% finish their 90 day PIP and remain employed. Of the 74% that are unsuccessful, 38% quit on their own within 30 days. 43% the company desides to terminate. The remaining leave on their own somewhere between the 30-90 day period. So yes, so people do. 1/4th at our company. It is an uphill battle though. Interestingly though from your own numbers the majority of departures do quit during the PIP, 42%, so except for the pay part I'm missing the benefit of waiting. Of the 58% who do complete the 90 days, 32% are fired and 26% are kept. Seems like a fairly decent shot of keeping your job IF you want to work for it.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Apr 5, 2013 11:11:17 GMT -5
Of course people get different advice based on who they are and what we know of their circumstance. My friends Jen 1 and Jen 2 could come to me with the exact same financial question and I would give them completely different advice based on their individual circumstances. There is no one size fits all. And yes, the more we know about you, the better advice we can give. Sum Dum Gai has been a member of these boards for YEARS. We know a whole lot more about him than we do a new poster. We also know enough to know that Dark and Doxie are two very different people. To the best of my knowledge, this is the first time Dark has ever done something like this, whereas this would just be par for the course for Doxie. Whether something is a one time event or a way of life certainly has an effect on how I think of it and the way I respond to the person. (Just like I don't care about C or J having the occasional drink in the evening, but if it were to get to the point where I was concerned about how much or often they were drinking, I'd day something.)
And yes, we also give different advice based on where in the "process" someone is. If Dark had come in here to vent before telling his boss he was quitting, almost all of us would have encouraged him to offer 2 weeks notice (knowing there was a chance they would ask him to leave anyway). But he didn't come in here before, he came in after, and telling him what he should have done provides exactly 0 benefit to him now. It's useless advice given only to make ourselves feel superior. (Though this is an anonymous message board, so it's not like that's actually uncommon.)
Here's the thing, good advice is never one size fits all. It takes into account what we know of the person/people involved and where they are in the situation. The better we know them, the better advice we can give.
If Dark had come here first, I would have told him to give notice- if nothing else to give him and Loopdilou 2 weeks to prepare. But honestly, how many of us were actually surprised by what Dark did? I mean, sure we hadn't expected it, but were we surprised he did it? I wasn't. And you can bet Loop wasn't all that surprised either.
We all know Dark has had some issues around paying for Loop's degree and her not using it, so yes, her having a temp job that will hopefully go perm gave him a sense of freedom that he hasn't had in a LONG time, and he over corrected. But what's done is done and the best advice we can give looks to the future, not the past. I don't think Dark should be looking for another traditional job. He hates it. He's been wanting to do start his own business for a long time. Now's the chance. Instead of trying to figure out how to start a business while working full time and still spending time with his family, he has that extra 50-60 hours/week (depending on commute times) to now fully focus on getting a business up and going while not ignoring his family. He can pour all of his energy into it, instead of what's left over. That should mean he can get it up and running and successful that much sooner, too.
They have savings and money they can fall back on, so it's not like he's risking their entire financial future (at least not at this point). If it does get to that point, I'll be the first to tell him to suck it up and go back to working for "the man", not matter who "the man" is.
Has Dark followed the road map I would have given? No, but if I got to direct Dark's life, it and he would be completely unrecognizable, and who knows if I'd even like him. He's done a great job managing his life so far, even if he's made a ton of decisions that I never would have made. We can't start with the "should haves" because they are in the past. When you give someone directions, no matter how lost they are, those directions absolutely MUST start with where they are now, not where they were 10 minutes ago.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2013 11:26:21 GMT -5
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Bob Ross
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Post by Bob Ross on Apr 5, 2013 12:10:26 GMT -5
It's useless advice given only to make ourselves feel superior.
But I love giving useless advice to make myself feel superior. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/sad.png)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2013 12:14:07 GMT -5
I'll make you feel superior! ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/charmed.png)
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Apr 5, 2013 12:21:48 GMT -5
@moneyjenny82 - I thought I was taking up for all of us, and our inconsistencies... ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png)
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 5, 2013 12:26:51 GMT -5
My co-worker didn't do anything for several years. He was totally useless. After a bit, my boss went into his office and said "I'll offer you a few weeks severance if you quit this week. If not, I'll put you on probation and you will be fired within the month." Shocking that the guy took it, huh? My boss has strong guilt about kicking someone out. He always offers a little blood money.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2013 12:30:24 GMT -5
Then they give 2 weeks pay. Same differance. Since when? I have never heard of someone getting two weeks pay for being fired. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/huh.gif) Since forever (or the labour movement got it passed). 2 weeks in lieu of notice. In a lot of cases they have to give a severance package unless they want to make an issue of firing with cause which opens a whole can of worms most companies don't want to deal with.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Apr 5, 2013 12:45:13 GMT -5
Different advice for different posters is one thing. I think we can all agree that two people in the same situation may need very different advice, depending on other factors at play.
My issue is with the attempted censorship of any opinions that aren't considered "nice" when the poster in question is well-liked, versus dead silence when a poster who isn't as well-liked (or doesn't have 20K posts to their name) is being berated by the group. This isn't the only thread on which it's happened lately - not even the only one this week.
That's all I have to say on the subject. I know many of you disagree with me, or think I'm a bitch, and that's entirely your right. I just get tired of the cliquey attitudes here, and I think it has a lot to do with why our community continues to shrink.
I do wish Dark the best of luck, and I'm sure he'll come out on top.
(ETA - Shane, I know I quoted you but I wasn't directing my comments at you - promise. Just a general observation to the YM community.)
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