is there a "God test" that can be viewed as proof?

[Deleted]

The way to prove the existence of God is to prove the Bible is true, which is done utilizing scholarly articles based on the scholar's understanding of the Bible which is only truly understood if one believes in God, who can be proven to exist if the Bible is proven to be factually accurate, which can be done through Biblical study and the reading of authoritative works of the Bible.  It is all very simple.

[Virgil Showlion]

Feb 25, 2013 21:23:04 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

The way to prove the existence of God is to prove the Bible is true, which is done utilizing scholarly articles based on the scholar's understanding of the Bible which is only truly understood if one believes in God, who can be proven to exist if the Bible is proven to be factually accurate, which can be done through Biblical study and the reading of authoritative works of the Bible.  It is all very simple.

It requires diligent study, I'll admit.

Take the case of the prophecies on Tyre for example. We see that an argument is presented based on what scripture says, then skeptics challenge this argument, and then the challenge is rebutted. The fact that these exchanges exist shouldn't be surprising to you. Consider that Anne Frank's diary, which was written under 70 years ago, has been challenged on many occasions as having made false historical claims and/or of being phony Jewish propaganda. The challenges are rebutted, but it's a complex process. And in the case of Biblical prophecies, we're talking about events that happened thousands of years ago. You're going to get challenges and you have to learn to accept them and respond to them. And unfortunately, it isn't always a simple process.

[weltschmerz]

Virgil, prophecies? Are you familiar with this?

watchmanscry.com/index.html

Frankly, they sound insane.

[weltschmerz]

One of their gripes is the Olympics being dedicated to Lucifer, with signs and symbols of evil throughout. There used to be a poster on the old P&M board who I think has lost her mind because of stuff like this. When she posts on her new board she sounds floridly psychotic now, ranting that even the Superbowl is an homage to Satan.

[swamp]

Feb 25, 2013 21:12:47 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Feb 25, 2013 21:04:12 GMT -5 swamp said:

www.tomorrowsworld.org/about-us

They're the ones who compiled the documents at the first three links, yes. I consider them to be a fair, authoritative source of what the Bible says (they're diligent about backing up all claims from scripture), and the three documents cited pertain to prophecies and their fulfillment.

It's an analysis of what the Bible says will come true and what history reveals did come true. If you're going to preemptively reject any and all references authored by churches and Christian scholars, the best I can do is hand you a Bible, hand you the Encyclopedia Britannica, and say "check the claims made by the former in the latter".

I didnt make any comment about the source.  However, one should be aware of a source to evaluate its credibility. 

[mmhmm]

Thanks, Virgil, for providing the links.  It will take me awhile to wade through all of them, as I don't want to give them short shrift. It's doubtful I'll make much comment, as I don't often debate belief; however, I do appreciate the opportunity to learn. 

[Deleted]

Feb 26, 2013 4:15:13 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

One of their gripes is the Olympics being dedicated to Lucifer, with signs and symbols of evil throughout. There used to be a poster on the old P&M board who I think has lost her mind because of stuff like this. When she posts on her new board she sounds floridly psychotic now, ranting that even the Superbowl is an homage to Satan.

She does sound increasingly unstable these days.  I feel badly for her.  She is getting fed some crazy beans by someone.   I do wish they would post over here, though.  They bring some interesting discussions to the table.  I just don;t think they could handle it, though.

[mmhmm]

I'd taken a look at that site lately, as well.  I ended by just shaking my head and moving on.  For the record, I feel badly for her, too, Archie.  Not looking good from an emotional standpoint.  I also noticed the co-admin has gone missing.  That's a bit worrisome, as I've known that one for a long time.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Thanks, Virgil.  Looks like some interesting reading.  Supposed to be snowed in for a day or two so I'll brew up a pot later and get to it.  Thanks for taking the time.

[Virgil Showlion]

Feb 26, 2013 4:07:21 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Virgil, prophecies? Are you familiar with this?

watchmanscry.com/index.html

Frankly, they sound insane.

No, I've never seen that one before.

Skimming some of the articles, it looks like a mash-up of NWO theories, mysticism, and numerology, loosely cobbled together by the authors' vague private interpretations of scripture. I'm seeing references to 'portals', the Rapture (not a Biblical doctrine), endless pages of claims about demons that don't have the slightest basis in scripture. I'm seeing fantasy-novel renderings of 'demons', which plainly ignore Biblical condemnation of such renderings.

In other words, they appear to be to the prophetic world what colloidal silver is to the scientific world.

My advice to the authors would be to cite 2 Peter 1:19-2:3:

We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto you do well that you take heed, as to a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For no prophecy ever came by the will of man: but men spake from God, being moved by the Holy Spirit. But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privately shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with false words exploit you: whose judgment of old now lingers not, and their destruction slumbers not.

and leave them to their folly.

[weltschmerz]

Skimming some of the articles, it looks like a mash-up of NWO theories, mysticism, and numerology, loosely cobbled together by the authors' vague private interpretations of scripture. I'm seeing references to 'portals', the Rapture (not a Biblical doctrine), endless pages of claims about demons that don't have the slightest basis in scripture. I'm seeing fantasy-novel renderings of 'demons', which plainly ignore Biblical condemnation of such renderings.
-------------
I used to go over to that board for entertainment, but now I just feel so bad that it's come to this. It's a real shame. While we didn't see eye to eye on many things, at least she sounded lucid. Now she's living on a steady diet of these "biblical prophecies" and sees portents of evil and satanism everywhere she goes. She can't even go for a walk and see a jetliner overhead without thinking it's scattering contrails to make citizens more compliant to the impending NWO and ultimate control by the Illuminati. Sad.

[Deleted]

 You've just been added to "The List" weltz!!! 

[Virgil Showlion]

You should visit www.timecube.com.

Always an enlightening read.

[weltschmerz]

Virgil, I'm curious. Why did you post all these prophesies and then post a link to Rational Wiki which debunks these prophesies?
(Just for the record, I'm a big fan of rationalwiki.com)

[weltschmerz]

Feb 26, 2013 13:23:04 GMT -5 @beerwench said:

 You've just been added to "The List" weltz!!! 

Oh dear! Which one? I'm on so many $hitlists already.

[weltschmerz]

Feb 26, 2013 13:23:41 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

You should visit www.timecube.com.

Always an enlightening read.

Lol! Yowza! I wouldn't exctly use the word "enlightening", but it's pretty funny.

[Deleted]

anyone remember "midwesterner" from the old msn boards?

he was also a BIG proponent of the NWO theories

we have a few here still that believe some of this stuff....but most have gone away (some forcibly)

[mmhmm]

I just think it must be very difficult to live life when you're always looking over your shoulder for black helicopters, or their ambulatory equivalents.  Not something I'd want to do.

[mmhmm]

Feb 26, 2013 13:23:41 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

You should visit www.timecube.com.

Always an enlightening read.

  I, errr ... ummm ... *gulp* ... 

[Virgil Showlion]

Feb 26, 2013 13:25:27 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Virgil, I'm curious. Why did you post all these prophesies and then post a link to Rational Wiki which debunks these prophesies?
(Just for the record, I'm a big fan of rationalwiki.com)

Because as I say in Reply #157, the various sources not only present the prophecies but also debunk the debunkings. I believe all of the "debunkings" are covered by the sum of the material, with the exception of the last section.

As I said to Archie, it's not uncommon for various parties to put out erroneous "debunkings" of scripture. If the attempts are halfway reasonable, Christians should know how to refute them and defend the integrity of the Bible. Usually the error is due to the casual ignorance of the debunker (or to put it differently: being 'rational' doesn't preclude people from being lazy), but on rare occasion digging to find an answer can reveal some truly insightful info.

[Virgil Showlion]

Feb 26, 2013 13:49:23 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Feb 26, 2013 13:23:41 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

You should visit www.timecube.com.

Always an enlightening read.

  I, errr ... ummm ... *gulp* ... 

"Brain intelligence begets the student a tag of SnotBrain android - encapable of comprehending absolute proof of 4 Days rotating simultaneously within a single rotation of Earth. Cubics comprehend it. You are a Cubic Thinker, or SnotBrain. You SnotBrains will know hell for ignoring TimeCube. I do not promote or suggest anyone killing you, but you are unfit to live on Earth."
     - Timecube Guy


Truer words were never spoken.

[mmhmm]

  Okay.  Now, I'm really hurt!  The creep called me an android!  I'm female, dammit! 

[weltschmerz]

"Brain intelligence begets the student a tag of SnotBrain android
-------------
Lol! Brain intelligence!
As opposed to pancreas intelligence?

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

...thanks for posting, Virgil... I've been busy and missed this last week... I'll eventually get to these readings...

...granted, I already know that God's real...

[chiver78]

thanks for bumping this thread. I got back from vacation late Friday, tomorrow's my first day back to work. I'll try to get through the thread and all the links in the coming days.

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

Mar 3, 2013 23:00:47 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

thanks for bumping this thread. I got back from vacation late Friday, tomorrow's my first day back to work. I'll try to get through the thread and all the links in the coming days.

...see? divine intervention, for your convenience... I'm just His vessel...

[roxanne]

The existence of a thing as against a concept is identified by science, science is an open system and unlike maths or formal logic absolute proof does not exist. Science tests evidence and tests a hypothesis against the evidence in order to establish its probability, the problem with a god test is the hypothesis invalidates all testing and all evidence, much like solipsism.

The hypothesis:  God is unknowable, undetectable and the universe is evidence of its existence.


If one claims everything counts as evidence for God's existence and nothing counts as evidence against God's existence, then there is simply no evidence to test and the hypothesis is empty of any scientific value, it is untestable and unfalsifiable. If there is no exception then one cannot prove the rule.

So what is the difference between an untestable God and no God at all, the answer is there is no difference, and the God hypothesis is but a bare assertion, one that is veridically worthless.

The answer to the question is no, there is no test and it was designed to be untestable.