Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Jan 5, 2013 12:00:01 GMT -5
I could be completely off base, but I'm more worried about you not getting CS than that you will get too much. $12/hr (and part of income is under the table) usually doesn't mean an abundance of court-ordered support. I have no personal experience with this, but everything I read is that it is purely a calculator. Issues like laziness and lying have nothing to do with it.
And just because CS is court ordered doesn't mean you'll actually get it. As many pp have posted, it is easy to avoid paying it.
I encourage you to try and get as financially independent of the CS as possible (yes I know this is hard). I hope it works out for you OP.
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misplacedbrit
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Post by misplacedbrit on Jan 5, 2013 12:33:36 GMT -5
I wanted to add something my ex pulled on me, so if he does it, you are not broadsided.
After one of his girlfriends (I use that term loosely) moved in, suddenly,he wanted a paternity test before he paid any more. - we were married 15 years and the only one that strayed was him.
When the Judge told him that his children would wonder why he was saying he was not their father, he backed out.
Child Services (in VA) kept track of him, CS was paid thru them, even when he upped and moved to avoid paying, they hunted him down. We went to court, Judge appointed a mediator, first thing he said was "I assume you want to go by state rules?" and Ex said "Of Course" (I knew it was more lol) so I agreed, He looked kinda green when ordered to pay another 400
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twinmama85
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Post by twinmama85 on Jan 5, 2013 13:57:27 GMT -5
I could be completely off base, but I'm more worried about you not getting CS than that you will get too much. $12/hr (and part of income is under the table) usually doesn't mean an abundance of court-ordered support. I have no personal experience with this, but everything I read is that it is purely a calculator. Issues like laziness and lying have nothing to do with it. And just because CS is court ordered doesn't mean you'll actually get it. As many pp have posted, it is easy to avoid paying it. I encourage you to try and get as financially independent of the CS as possible (yes I know this is hard). I hope it works out for you OP. California is one of the worse states for someone who has to pay child support. it automatically is deducted from his pay check once the court order is in place and from using the calculator, it was $1138. If the state comes back saying less, well then we will have to talk. He isn't that much of a douchebag of a dad to skimp out. The state of California will also take a loan out on his behalf, at 10% interest to pay child support he fails to pay plus they will take his license away and his tax refund as well. California is definitely a bad state to try and weasel out of it.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Jan 6, 2013 14:42:31 GMT -5
I could be completely off base, but I'm more worried about you not getting CS than that you will get too much. $12/hr (and part of income is under the table) usually doesn't mean an abundance of court-ordered support. I have no personal experience with this, but everything I read is that it is purely a calculator. Issues like laziness and lying have nothing to do with it. And just because CS is court ordered doesn't mean you'll actually get it. As many pp have posted, it is easy to avoid paying it. I encourage you to try and get as financially independent of the CS as possible (yes I know this is hard). I hope it works out for you OP. California is one of the worse states for someone who has to pay child support. it automatically is deducted from his pay check once the court order is in place and from using the calculator, it was $1138. If the state comes back saying less, well then we will have to talk. He isn't that much of a douchebag of a dad to skimp out. The state of California will also take a loan out on his behalf, at 10% interest to pay child support he fails to pay plus they will take his license away and his tax refund as well. California is definitely a bad state to try and weasel out of it. WOW - you never hear that kind of stuff. $12/hr is about $2000/mo. $1138 is about 55% of his gross. Assuming 20% of gross to taxes (FICA, Fed/State income), that means he gets to live off 25% of his wages (or $500/mo). Are you sure you're doing the calculator correctly? This seems too good to be true (although I will admit I know next to nothing about CS).
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Apple
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Post by Apple on Jan 6, 2013 15:07:49 GMT -5
I just did an Oregon calculation, with just the one known number (him making $12 an hour) and guessed numbers for "mom".
If I put in that mom has the twins majority of the time, she makes $15 an hour or $20 an hour (no clue what she makes, but the result was the same for both wages). She pays $1500 a month on child care (again, no clue--but two kids...) She gets medical insurance from her job that covers the kids--her cost is $100 a month, but only $25 of that is for the kids (so, if she took the kids off her insurance, premiums would drop to $75 to cover her--that extra $25 covers the kids).
Putting in those numbers meant that "dad" pays $994 a month. So really, I doubt the $1100 is all that far off.
I'm glad you filed. And, I echo everyone else--DON'T feel sorry for him, don't give up anything to make his life "better". Isn't he living with mom now? (I don't know for sure, trying to remember). If he wants more money, he'll go earn more. He's already cheating "the system" and the kids by working under the table. It is not your job to make life easy for him. You can, and do, work, so can he. Don't let him guilt trip you!
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twinmama85
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Post by twinmama85 on Jan 6, 2013 15:12:47 GMT -5
California is one of the worse states for someone who has to pay child support. it automatically is deducted from his pay check once the court order is in place and from using the calculator, it was $1138. If the state comes back saying less, well then we will have to talk. He isn't that much of a douchebag of a dad to skimp out. The state of California will also take a loan out on his behalf, at 10% interest to pay child support he fails to pay plus they will take his license away and his tax refund as well. California is definitely a bad state to try and weasel out of it. WOW - you never hear that kind of stuff. $12/hr is about $2000/mo. $1138 is about 55% of his gross. Assuming 20% of gross to taxes (FICA, Fed/State income), that means he gets to live off 25% of his wages (or $500/mo). Are you sure you're doing the calculator correctly? This seems too good to be true (although I will admit I know next to nothing about CS). If I wasn't paying day care ($1,100 a month) it would only be $588 for both, but since i pay so much in day care, he is required to pay half of it. All I did with the calculator was assume how much he makes, roughly $2000, my income is about $3600 (this includes non taxable housing and food allowance) they are with me 87% of the time and I don't pay health care OOP. It automatically calculates taxes for you and the other parent and the number that popped up was $1138. Again, its mainly because of the day care costs are so high and they want both parents to pay 50% of that, so $550 each. If I don't get that much, I am okay with that, I just want it court ordered so he can't say,"oh sorry, can't pay you this week"
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twinmama85
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Post by twinmama85 on Jan 6, 2013 15:19:03 GMT -5
I just did an Oregon calculation, with just the one known number (him making $12 an hour) and guessed numbers for "mom". If I put in that mom has the twins majority of the time, she makes $15 an hour or $20 an hour (no clue what she makes, but the result was the same for both wages). She pays $1500 a month on child care (again, no clue--but two kids...) She gets medical insurance from her job that covers the kids--her cost is $100 a month, but only $25 of that is for the kids (so, if she took the kids off her insurance, premiums would drop to $75 to cover her--that extra $25 covers the kids). Putting in those numbers meant that "dad" pays $994 a month. So really, I doubt the $1100 is all that far off. I'm glad you filed. And, I echo everyone else--DON'T feel sorry for him, don't give up anything to make his life "better". Isn't he living with mom now? (I don't know for sure, trying to remember). If he wants more money, he'll go earn more. He's already cheating "the system" and the kids by working under the table. It is not your job to make life easy for him. You can, and do, work, so can he. Don't let him guilt trip you! No, he lives in his own place. When he gave me a copy of the divorce info, it had all his stuff on there: rent $640/mo (I seriously don't understand why he doesn't just rent a room from someone) Sprint: $90, auto insurance: $20, gas:$250:directv:$56, student loans are $231 (I think he put these in deferment) credit card (was paid off, now has over $4,000 on it) I think this was $35 at the time. Then he is paying me $700/mo right now. He is trying to maintain a standard of living he had with me, yet he is refusing to make more income. It showed him being $200 in the hole every month (thats why I don't understand why he's renting so high)
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Apple
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Post by Apple on Jan 6, 2013 15:24:38 GMT -5
Just another reason for you not to feel bad! Most of those expenses can be brought down. Get rid of the smart phone (or go prepaid), get rid of cable (watch online or with an antenna), carpool if he can, and find a cheaper place to rent. Point is, these are his issues, NOT yours. The children should come first, you should not have to sacrifice even more of yourself to make his life easy.
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Apple
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Post by Apple on Jan 6, 2013 15:29:12 GMT -5
FWIW, I went easy on my ex just to get the divorce over. When the calculator glitched on the lawyer, it erased the child care and medical premiums (so, I lost $400 a month in child support). They caught the mistake before the divorce was final, but after he had signed the paperwork. I knew my income would nearly double in less than a year (going from 30 hours a week to 40, plus a raise), so I didn't bother to fix it (I had not yet signed the paperwork, so it would have just been them re-printing it with good numbers and having him come back to sign). But don't let him cheat the kids (and you) out of it. The state made a calculator for a reason--it's what they consider most fair for both parties, no matter what "self-inflicted" debt there is.
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twinmama85
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Post by twinmama85 on Jan 6, 2013 15:29:55 GMT -5
Just another reason for you not to feel bad! Most of those expenses can be brought down. Get rid of the smart phone (or go prepaid), get rid of cable (watch online or with an antenna), carpool if he can, and find a cheaper place to rent. Point is, these are his issues, NOT yours. The children should come first, you should not have to sacrifice even more of yourself to make his life easy. Oh the beautiful part is..I am in the military, I've been stationed here over 2 years. Since he is divorcing me and the civilian sector looks a little gloomy, I am going to re-enlist. This means, if I don't try to leave (which I am probably going to once everything is complete) the Air Force will move me. He begged me not to take the boys away from him, requested that I turn down orders and not try to leave this place. OK, so I have NO BODY HERE for me, why should I stay? California broke my heart and I don't want to be here any longer than necessary. He told me not to purposefully leave out of spite, I just looked at him and shook my head. He wants his cake and he wants to eat it too. Doesn't want me to be his wife, yet he still wants me to do things for him (like not leave, not take more of his money, etc)
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twinmama85
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Post by twinmama85 on Jan 6, 2013 15:32:41 GMT -5
I am fortunate that even though California is a community property state, his student loans will be his. His credit card debt will be his (because he racked it up after he moved). We already did a division of property and debt and out of the goodness of my heart I took on the entire joint personal loan (its got a $2000 balance on it). The other $26,000 is on him, not me.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2013 18:08:38 GMT -5
"No, he lives in his own place. When he gave me a copy of the divorce info, it had all his stuff on there: rent $640/mo (I seriously don't understand why he doesn't just rent a room from someone)"
My ex is making $10/hr with a pt job. He is holding on to his damn house with a motgage of 1k/month on top of his smart phone, etc that he is not willing to give up. He preferred giving up his son rather than those things.
Here child care is split based on % income earned.
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twinmama85
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Post by twinmama85 on Jan 6, 2013 18:33:32 GMT -5
"No, he lives in his own place. When he gave me a copy of the divorce info, it had all his stuff on there: rent $640/mo (I seriously don't understand why he doesn't just rent a room from someone)" My ex is making $10/hr with a pt job. He is holding on to his damn house with a motgage of 1k/month on top of his smart phone, etc that he is not willing to give up. He preferred giving up his son rather than those things. Here child care is split based on % income earned. That is horrible...like I said, I used the California State CS calculator and that's what I did..feel free guys to double check my work ;D I have a while until they give me a number.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 7, 2013 10:11:48 GMT -5
twin, I have no idea how this stuff really works but I'd try to get everything settled and signed before the military moves you. And make sure the custody stuff lets you move for your job.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2013 11:11:54 GMT -5
"And make sure the custody stuff lets you move for your job. " If he has visitation, he can easily stop you from moving or make you leave the kids behind.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jan 7, 2013 11:20:59 GMT -5
Just another reason for you not to feel bad! Most of those expenses can be brought down. Get rid of the smart phone (or go prepaid), get rid of cable (watch online or with an antenna), carpool if he can, and find a cheaper place to rent. Point is, these are his issues, NOT yours. The children should come first, you should not have to sacrifice even more of yourself to make his life easy. Oh the beautiful part is..I am in the military, I've been stationed here over 2 years. Since he is divorcing me and the civilian sector looks a little gloomy, I am going to re-enlist. This means, if I don't try to leave (which I am probably going to once everything is complete) the Air Force will move me. He begged me not to take the boys away from him, requested that I turn down orders and not try to leave this place. OK, so I have NO BODY HERE for me, why should I stay? California broke my heart and I don't want to be here any longer than necessary. He told me not to purposefully leave out of spite, I just looked at him and shook my head. He wants his cake and he wants to eat it too. Doesn't want me to be his wife, yet he still wants me to do things for him (like not leave, not take more of his money, etc) Didn't he purposely move three hours away from you without almost any warning? You need to do whatever is smart for you and your kids economically. Plus if California makes you depressed than leaving it sounds smart.
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Apple
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Post by Apple on Jan 7, 2013 15:22:14 GMT -5
Absolutely check that they don't put any kind of moving restrictions on you with your job. My divorce decree states that I can't move more than 90 miles without the ex's "permission". It doesn't matter that he has only bothered to see DS 3 or 4 times since the divorce, and the last time was over 5 years ago, I'm not allowed to move w/o his ok (at this point it would probably be me hiring a lawyer and getting a court ruling like I had to for getting DS's passport). I'm fortunate I don't get moved for work, but if he wanted to burn me over that one, he could.
Also, I don't know what your chances of getting deployed are, but talk to your lawyer about that as well. I'm sure you've heard the horror stories of moms who deployed and then came home and custody was taken away from them, even though the situation with "dad" was crappy.
Wishing you the best of luck and sending lots of hugs!
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twinmama85
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Post by twinmama85 on Jan 7, 2013 20:51:19 GMT -5
Hey guys..again, i don't have an attorney, neither of us do, can't afford it. I will obtain one though if he gets stupid with the custody. I am in the military and the judges here do take that into consideration, so hopefully that's on my side, but I wont really know until we get to that point
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suesinfl
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Post by suesinfl on Jan 7, 2013 21:40:01 GMT -5
This may be a dumb question, but I have no experience with the military. If she has custody of the kids and the military says you have to go to .....and it is not a war zone and she can still provide for her kids, how can he stop her? I thought that you had do move where ever the military said you had to. Like I said I have no knowledge of how the military really works when it comes to relocation.
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twinmama85
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Post by twinmama85 on Jan 7, 2013 21:56:45 GMT -5
This may be a dumb question, but I have no experience with the military. If she has custody of the kids and the military says you have to go to .....and it is not a war zone and she can still provide for her kids, how can he stop her? I thought that you had do move where ever the military said you had to. Like I said I have no knowledge of how the military really works when it comes to relocation. After a certain point, I will more than likely move and if I turn down orders, because of how much they are cutting the DoD, they would not allow me to re-enlist, so my livelihood depends on it
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Sharon
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Post by Sharon on Jan 7, 2013 22:28:26 GMT -5
Also watch out for him adding in costs of transportation for visitation. My sisters ex moved an 8 hour drive away from the family then suddenly decided to enforce the every other weekend visitation (hadn't seen the kids regularly in months) because my sis had to pay for half the cost of the transportation. He was trying to get her to pay a certain amount for gasoline or to pay to fly the kids there. She told him no that she would meet him in a certain city that was the halfway point. He suddenly wasn't so interested in seeing the kids again.
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Apple
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Post by Apple on Jan 7, 2013 23:20:32 GMT -5
Also watch out for him adding in costs of transportation for visitation. My sisters ex moved an 8 hour drive away from the family then suddenly decided to enforce the every other weekend visitation (hadn't seen the kids regularly in months) because my sis had to pay for half the cost of the transportation. He was trying to get her to pay a certain amount for gasoline or to pay to fly the kids there. She told him no that she would meet him in a certain city that was the halfway point. He suddenly wasn't so interested in seeing the kids again. Smart girl. If the divorce decree is written so that you have to get permission to move the kids, military or not it can mean big problems if you need to move (in response to someone above, too tired to read up ) If your decree has it in there, I wouldn't sign it. Hopefully the judge wouldn't put it in there knowing you're military. As far as the lawyer goes, it *could* be worth it and not expensive if he doesn't fight. My divorce was almost 12 years ago, but the lawyer costs were only $600 total. I just sat down with him and said "this is what I want, please write it up so he can sign it". The ex didn't fight it. However, that time was blurry so I don't know when I realized the moving clause was in there.
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misplacedbrit
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Post by misplacedbrit on Jan 8, 2013 0:15:44 GMT -5
My friend was helped by the JAG office, they cant advise you?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2013 7:57:02 GMT -5
My ex didnt fight either, just played games a little and it is costing me almost 5k. Unless you do everything yourself then have a lawyer just take a look at it, it will cost you money, i assume about 2k or a little less. But it also depends on how expensive the lawyer is. Maybe see if you can find a lawyer that charges a certain $ amount for divorce, dont know if they exist.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Jan 8, 2013 10:02:33 GMT -5
My friend was helped by the JAG office, they cant advise you? Is there free legal aid available to you as well? My SIL in the AF is going through a divorce right now. Thankfully they have no kids so that part is not an issue. But I believe she got some legal help since he was trying to screw her over.
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taz157
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Post by taz157 on Jan 8, 2013 10:11:17 GMT -5
My friend was helped by the JAG office, they cant advise you? Is there free legal aid available to you as well? My SIL in the AF is going through a divorce right now. Thankfully they have no kids so that part is not an issue. But I believe she got some legal help since he was trying to screw her over. Is this the SIL that just got married?
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Jan 8, 2013 12:07:07 GMT -5
lol, yep. They were married for about 18 months. They only knew each other for 9 months before getting married and moving away from all of their families. And now they get why everyone told them it was a bad idea.
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twinmama85
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Post by twinmama85 on Jan 8, 2013 15:04:03 GMT -5
My friend was helped by the JAG office, they cant advise you? Is there free legal aid available to you as well? My SIL in the AF is going through a divorce right now. Thankfully they have no kids so that part is not an issue. But I believe she got some legal help since he was trying to screw her over. JAG can only look over my documents to make sure they look good, other than that, they prohibited from practicing family law. I have a family advocacy lady that helped me with the divorce paperwork (she worked in the courthouse for 12 years before she got the new gig) and she dealt with this stuff all the time. Again, the only way I will get an attorney is if he gets stupid with the kids, right now we have an agreement. We meet halfway, so there is no visitation costs and if it comes to me moving and the kids flying, then we can meet half way until the kids are old enough to fly on their own. I would probably do an agreement where he buys 1 plane ticket, I buy the other for them to see their dad.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2013 15:52:35 GMT -5
"We meet halfway, so there is no visitation costs and if it comes to me moving and the kids flying, then we can meet half way until the kids are old enough to fly on their own. I would probably do an agreement where he buys 1 plane ticket, I buy the other for them to see their dad."
Leave some negotiation room for yourself. If you start at the least you will accept, you will have no negotiation room. learn from my mistake. I told my ex, let's come to an agreement and I will have my lawyer write it up and you can review and sign. We came to an agreement verbally. Then he changed his mind, then agreed again, then changed his mind. My lawyer put in something she wasnt supposed to by mistake and instead of asking about it, he flipped out and said no deal. All this cost me money with the lawyer, going back and forth. My mistake was I told him a very low amount of CS and gave him too good of a deal so he tried to push more. In the end he ended up giving my son up completely, he even wanted to relinquish his rights but the judge wouldnt let him. Dont say he wouldnt do it, dont say it wouldnt happen to you. I would have said the exact same thing. he has 2 other sons from before and he fought tooth and nail to have joint custody for them! He told me he knows what it is like to grow up without a father and he wouldnt do it to his son and he did it the worst possible way. And I hope it doesnt come to that but you ex could try to get away with things also. I dont know if you remember but when you were still hopeful to work things out, I had mentioned that he is only waiting for the opportunity and you were mitaking that as wanting to work things out. Once he starts feeling te pain of paying so much CS, you dont know how ugly he can get. So dont feel sorry for him, dont let him get off easy. I hope this isnt harsh or mean, it isnot my intention. I just dont want to see somebody else repeat my mistakes.
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Mardi Gras Audrey
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Post by Mardi Gras Audrey on Jan 10, 2013 6:18:55 GMT -5
Mama, I'm sorry to hear that you are going through this.. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get it put in the divorce decree that you can move when the AF moves you! My coworker in the AF had his decree say that he couldn't move more than 1 county away after the divorce (They had 5 kids and his wife left him). At any rate, this severely limited his job prospects (Luckily, he was close to retirement and was in a big AF city so he was able to move around to a few assignments and not move his home). They did this even though we were in a very military friendly area. He ended up getting remarried and his new wife lived 2 counties over so he couldn't move in with her (The whole situation was a mess). I lost contact with him after I left but I know i was lots of drama for him and the only saving grace was that he was ready for retirement and knew his career was ending soon after the divorce...
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