The older kid thread

[973beachbum]

Dec 7, 2012 9:02:35 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

He definitely is more aggressive when he doesn't get enough sleep. I told DH to warn dcp when he dropped him off.

How old is he? I really think you should get him evaluated but if he is in the 2-3 age that really is age appropiate behavior. Obviously it isn't acceptable but it really is age appropiate. I can't remember if it was Archie or DarkHonor who talked about how they were a very aggressive little kid. Most kids who go through this do grow out of it if there isn't anything else happening.

Is the Doc going to refer him to someone else to be evaluated?

[Wisconsin Beth]

He's 3. He's a late Oct. b-day.

Yeah, the doc it referring us but I admit I'm not sure to who/what. She's sending the paperwork to the referral desk and they'll be in touch with us. She said it takes a really long time to get seen.

[973beachbum]

I remember when DD was in day care a kid kept biting her. It went on for a while. He was maybe2.5 and she was 4. She was much bigger than him so it confused me then I got mad. I couldn't figure out why someone didn't stop him. The aides told me that he was super fast and they would see him by himself and when they blinked their eyes thhe open them to see him biting someone.

His father was a surgeon and mom was a chemist or something. DD went 30 straight days getting bitten. DD was very shy and the "good girl" in preschool. She would just go tell the teacher afterwards.

I know you cant do this but what finally ended it was her fighting back. He tried to bite her on the arm and she grabbed his arm and hit him as hard as she could with the heel of her hand. I don't know if he saw stars but he did seem to see his impending death if he did it again because he never bit another person again.

Good luck getting an appointment soon but I hope he grows out of it first!

[Clever Username]

Back at one daycare we had a biter.
It's a behavioral issue to identify and eliminate ASAP.
Most often it springs up when the little chomper doesn't have any teeth and the parents find it funny.
...or as it's refered to in psychology Positive Reinforcement.

Parents in my old daycare didn't take it seriously, it didn't get better and the kid was kicked out.

[Deleted]

Our DCP had a 3 times and you're out policy with biters: 1st offense is a warning, 2nd time the kid is sent home and the 3rd time kid is kicked out of school.
DS was targeted by this kid we called "Jaws" and he bit him twice but the parents got him to stop somehow before he got kicked out of school.

[kgb18]

Biting is definitely something I will not tolerate from my child or anyone else's.

Avery tried to bite the other day out of nowhere. She told me she was being a shark. I told her she'd better be a shark who doesn't bite, or she was going to be a shark who got a spanking. She stopped. That was the night she was really out of sorts and acting out.

[Sum Dum Gai]

I can't remember if it was Archie or DarkHonor who talked about how they were a very aggressive little kid. Most kids who go through this do grow out of it if there isn't anything else happening.

Crap, now I feel bad. I was joking about being a biter as a kid to make a point on that other thread. One of my nieces was a biter though. My SIL tried everything to get her to stop, and nothing was working, so she finally bit her back. Didn't break the skin, but hard enough to leave teeth marks. She never bit anyone again. The niece not the SIL. Well, the SIL either as far as I know, but I guess my brother could be into that kind of thing.

[swamp]

DD used to bite. I finally bit her back, and that stopped it. I was told by a poster on her that I was a horrible mother and it was abusive.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I bet you strap her in a stroller too!

[Sum Dum Gai]

I'm going to buck the trend and recommend spanking too in certain circumstances. I know it's not a very popular form of discipline right now, but there are instances where I think it's warranted. In the case of a kid that's very aggressive and pushing, hitting, pulling hair, or whatever a spanking might help. Somebody mentioned not wanting to send the signal that violence is OK, and I get that. However, for younger kids it can be a way to show them that hitting other people hurts. It's like the biting thing. They don't really understand what they're doing to people or how bad it hurts until you bite them back. Once you do they're like, "Oh, that fucking hurts, no wonder people hate it when I do that." So, if you have a kid that can't keep their hands to themselves, and you've tried timeout, taking privileges away, scolding, berating, bribing, using the power of Christ to compel them, and every other thing you can think of, maybe it's time for an ass whipping so they understand that what they're doing hurts other people and they need to knock it off.

DD used to bite. I finally bit her back, and that stopped it. I was told by a poster on her that I was a horrible mother and it was abusive.

Probably somebody that doesn't even have kids, but is an internet expert on raising them.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Gwen got a spanking when she wouldn't listen to me about the stove door. I don't have time to discuss it with her and it isn't something I can just let her figure out on her own. She's never tried to open it again.

I tapped her under the chin when she'd bite me. She was far too little to understand me biting her. But a tap on the chin and not being allowed to sit with me was enough. She's never bit at daycare and has never bit DH, only me.

[Sum Dum Gai]

Gwen got a spanking when she wouldn't listen to me about the stove door. I don't have time to discuss it with her and it isn't something I can just let her figure out on her own.

Yeah... we had a total parenting fail moment while baking cookies for a unit picnic. She thought I was getting the kiddo who had been in the kitchen "helping" while she got the cookies out. I thought she was getting the kiddo while I was getting the cookies out. So we open the door and both reach in to get the cookies out, while Mo (our oldest) grabs the open oven door to stand up and see what we were doing. Burned the shit out of both hands and forearms. Blisters on both palms, the pads of every finger, and halfway up both wrists. She was 10 months old and just starting to grab furniture to stand up and cruise around but not walking yet.

We felt so bad. The poor kid was stuck with gauze wrapping from the elbow down for a couple weeks and couldn't crawl or anything because her hands were burned.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

My kid got ahold of a plastic bag and went running by with it on her head. I FREAKED. Scared her so bad she's never done anything like that again.

We should probably not share any of this on EE otherwise the parent police will turn us in.

[Sum Dum Gai]

Eh... I figure CPS has bigger fish to fry than my stupid butt.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

If you didn't strap them in strollers, you're probably safe.

Me, I screwed. I am a daycare using, stroller strapping working mother. I'm surprised they haven't turned me already.

[Deleted]

Dec 7, 2012 15:23:54 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Eh... I figure CPS has bigger fish to fry than my stupid butt.

I wouldn't take that bet. CPS works in mysterious ways. Things they should worry about they don't and things that seem fine to normal people they focus on.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Dec 7, 2012 15:25:33 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

If you didn't strap them in strollers, you're probably safe.

Me, I screwed. I am a daycare using, stroller strapping working mother. I'm surprised they haven't turned me already.

I had to stay away from the stroller thread on EE last week. I started it, got about 6 posts in and thought "E, I can't read this now. I'm a mess as it is."

I think Cabe's turned the corner on biting. Now he licks instead. And the only kid I consistently know he bit was Keira. I don't think he bit more than once at dcp. Is it better or worse that he stuck to biting family?

He had a full blown temper tantrum on Friday night. Well, I did too. He wouldn't go brush his teeth or go to Keira's room for bedtime prep. I told him no one was going to read to him that night. So then he went and brushed his teeth. It was DH's night with him (poor bastard, I'm pretty sure DH was wishing I'd kept my mouth shut) and he screamed and cried for damn near an hour. Kept getting out of bed to turn the lights on and going "read daddy" Eventually, I took over, got Cabe in bed under the blankets and he calmed down. He stayed in bed. I hate having to take away reading from them though.

As for spanking, going into the road/parking lot without holding onto someone hand generates one. It does next to nothing for Cabe. With Keira, 1 or 2 swats and she stopped. But she's our anal rule follower. He's not.

[telephus44]

Beth, I feel the same way. If I don't read to my kid at night, how is he going to get that love of reading? But we also take away stories if he doesn't cooperate with bedtime.

We went to a town party last night and saw Santa. It's funny - this is only the second year he's been into Santa, but he's all full of technical questions. Santa drove up on a decorated fire truck. "How can Santa get back to the North Pole in a fire truck? It doesn't fly." I think he's a long way from not believing, but the questions are starting.

[Wisconsin Beth]

And he loves, loves, LOVES to be read to.

Hmmm, the Firefighters wanted to show off their truck and since they were good, Santa obliged? The reindeer he rode is at the Zoo, visiting the other reindeer, moose, etc?

[kgb18]

The pediatrician told me I could give Avery melatonin to help her sleep at night. I found it in a gummy version today. Tomorrow night we're going to give it a try. I'm hoping it helps her wind down and fall asleep better and stay asleep.

[Wisconsin Beth]

And Miz at dcp asked about Cabe sticking his tongue out. She talked about nervous tic and Tourette's. Um, I think it's just a phase. He's doing a lot of tongue out stuff and walking around on all 4s pretending to be a dog. The drool might be something else, I don't know (she hadn't noticed that but it's been happening for a while, not a lot but here and there. And his pillow is usually damp in the morning.) She suggested that since he's 3 I take him to my local school and ask for an IEP. She seemed relieved when I told her our doctor was referring us to a behavior specialist (because the doctor said flat out it's not her field and while she's not noticing anything, she's not around him much and the specialist would give us help in coping.)

[telephus44]

While it doesn't sound like anything serious - I would ask the school to evaluate him. We had one done for Owen when he was 3. It was nice because they looked at everything - not just behavior but also speech, fine motor, gross motor, the whole thing. It was really helpful to have a comprehensive picture of what he was like.

They actually suggested that he might have autism because he had a large gap between his expressive speech and his receptive speech, with expressive being much higher. They were also the first people to tell us that he was sensory seeking - so much of the information you hear or read on sensory is about sensory avoidance - it's too loud, too bright, too much stimulation. For Owen it's the opposite - it's not enough stimulation so he seeks out things that are loud, bright, etc. I had never considered that until the school system tested him and told us that's where he fell on the sensory categories.

Today's funny story - last year my MIL gave Owen an electric train set that was a cheap piece of crap and we couldn't get it to run after spending 3-4 hours on it. So this year when he went to see Santa he asked for "a new train set, because the one you gave me last year didn't work." It was really hard for me and Santa to contain our laughter.

[Chocolate Lover]

Beth, just an FYI, ADHD kids CAN concentrate for long periods of time. But they have to be interested in what they're doing. I hope it's just Cabe being an active kid but just thought I'd share. Beach's and my ADHD boy have so much in common ;D

[Wisconsin Beth]

HE's definitely active, that's for sure.

[kgb18]

I gave Avery melatonin last night. I don't know if it was a fluke or if it actually worked, but I gave her a gummy at 7:20 p.m. I put her in bed at 8 and she was out by 8:20. She's usually up for at least an hour, sometimes two, after I put her in bed. We'll see what happens tonight.

[moosmommy]

Kgb18 it may have been a fluke last night so don't give up if it does not go that way tonight. It is suppose to build up in their systems so make sure you try it for at least a month before making your mind up that it does or doesn't work.

[kgb18]

Thanks for the advice! If this works, I'm going to be so happy. Getting her to sleep every night is an exhausting challenge.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Good luck!

[telephus44]

Good luck kgb!

Owen was suspended from school today for going after an aide and grabbing her private area. We have a meeting with the principal at 8:15am tomorrow. I am seriously at a loss for what to do.

[Sam_2.0]

((((((((((hugs)))))))))) telephus.