EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Nov 8, 2012 11:17:12 GMT -5
Meanwhile, a neighbor of mine was approved for disability in under two years and do you want to know why he is disabled? He has a drinking problem. Seriously? There are people out there who really need it, and they aren't getting it because some bozo thinks his alcohol is more important than getting a job. His alcohol is so damn important that he has to take away disability benefits from someone who is completely wheelchair bound and can't work. But hey, now he gets paid to get drunk. Nice huh? It does not work like that for substance abuse- you can be determined to be disabled because of it- however you do not collect a check. That was done back in the 80's. Also people with multiple conditions that also have DAA may have to have a representative payee for the benefits. Might be hard to beleive but DAA is not always the underlying problem- how do you know what your neighbor was approved for?
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Nov 8, 2012 11:32:17 GMT -5
I won't judge whether it's wrong or not in these circumstances. Only God knows the man's heart and mind. What I will assert, however, is that it is the man's ethical responsibility to seek employ elsewhere—in any profession—as aggressively as he can within the limits of his disability. People do try- people on disability try to work and fail regularly. If you read some case files you would understand how screwed up some people really are and still don't qualify- nothing like having people crying on the phone because they are about to lose their house and are very sick- but not sick enough yet. It is a high bar so if there is a giant increase of disabled people I will go with there are more disabled people. More applications- not nec. more fraud- could just be more people with conditions that they are in no position to judge whether they would qualify- the law is very complicated.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Nov 8, 2012 11:44:53 GMT -5
Moral hazard. I think you've pretty well summarized it. I won't judge whether it's wrong or not in these circumstances. Only God knows the man's heart and mind. What I will assert, however, is that it is the man's ethical responsibility to seek employ elsewhere—in any profession—as aggressively as he can within the limits of his disability. If you were an employer would you hire this individual if there were eight equally qualified applicants besides him to choose from? That is what a lot of disabled folks are competing against. In the US it is against the law to discriminate against the disabled, There is, however, no law which requires preferential treatment.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 8, 2012 11:49:04 GMT -5
But 145% more in 15 years? ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/what_smile.png) And with the improvements in medical treatment, should we not also expect that fewer accidents and diseases cause "irreparable harm" by today's standard than by the standard of 15 years ago? What you're suggesting is a massive— massive—surge in disease, industrial accidents, etc. in a period of 15 years. Yet everything I've read suggests that workplace safety standards have been constantly improving, occupations are becoming less hazardous, and medical science can cure the previously incurable. So what happened? Is our genome degrading? Are our bodies becoming more frail? Human intelligence peaked in the early 1990's. Have we fallen so far since then as to become hopelessly careless or accident-prone? I don't buy it. If he's qualified to do the job and has a good resume, I don't give a rat's fanny if he's disabled.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Nov 8, 2012 12:01:43 GMT -5
Virgil, "everything you've read" isn't necessarily true. While safety standards are improving, actual safety isn't. There's an attitude of "Look, we need this done. You'll do it or I'll find somebody who can, and DON'T GET CAUGHT!" I've seen people who were injured at work who were sent back to the workplace with major bones broken after being told "You're fine. You can still do light work. Just report as usual." I've seen this with my own eyes at my place of work. No, one should not be working with a fractured femur! No, one should not be working with a broken humerus! Not even light work until healing can begin. The risk is further damage and that DOES lead to permanent disability.
Additionally, people are working longer hours. Many of them are sitting in front of a computer for ten or twelve hours a day, at least five days a week. That does not promote health. That causes problems. Are there people who abuse the system? Of course, there are. Nobody's saying there aren't. However, that's no more of a problem than what's happening to folks who are truly unable to work. They're either forced to work and make the situation worse, or they can't find a job they can do because there are too many able-bodied and able-minded people to fill the job they might have gotten in a better economy. Buy it, or don't buy it. I know what I see in the real world right here in the US.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Nov 8, 2012 12:03:02 GMT -5
You might not give a rat's fanny, Virgil, but many, many employers do.
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vandalshandle
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Post by vandalshandle on Nov 8, 2012 12:08:52 GMT -5
I used to review disability claims for the private insurance industry. In order to get past our review, you have to be close to being a triple amputee. From what I have seen regarding SSDI, it isn't much different. I had to have a MD who specialized in occupational medicine certify that I could not work. The certification was 2 typed pages long, and stated exactly why that was her opinion. Once the application got to SSDI, it was reviewed by their physicians, as a matter of routine procedure.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 8, 2012 13:16:51 GMT -5
Virgil, "everything you've read" isn't necessarily true. While safety standards are improving, actual safety isn't. There's an attitude of "Look, we need this done. You'll do it or I'll find somebody who can, and DON'T GET CAUGHT!" I've seen people who were injured at work who were sent back to the workplace with major bones broken after being told "You're fine. You can still do light work. Just report as usual." I've seen this with my own eyes at my place of work. No, one should not be working with a fractured femur! No, one should not be working with a broken humerus! Not even light work until healing can begin. The risk is further damage and that DOES lead to permanent disability. Additionally, people are working longer hours. Many of them are sitting in front of a computer for ten or twelve hours a day, at least five days a week. That does not promote health. That causes problems. Are there people who abuse the system? Of course, there are. Nobody's saying there aren't. However, that's no more of a problem than what's happening to folks who are truly unable to work. They're either forced to work and make the situation worse, or they can't find a job they can do because there are too many able-bodied and able-minded people to fill the job they might have gotten in a better economy. Buy it, or don't buy it. I know what I see in the real world right here in the US. So in a nutshell you're saying that the US standard of living has plummeted since 1997. I suppose I can buy that. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2012 13:20:54 GMT -5
Virgil, "everything you've read" isn't necessarily true. While safety standards are improving, actual safety isn't. There's an attitude of "Look, we need this done. You'll do it or I'll find somebody who can, and DON'T GET CAUGHT!" I've seen people who were injured at work who were sent back to the workplace with major bones broken after being told "You're fine. You can still do light work. Just report as usual." I've seen this with my own eyes at my place of work. No, one should not be working with a fractured femur! No, one should not be working with a broken humerus! Not even light work until healing can begin. The risk is further damage and that DOES lead to permanent disability. Additionally, people are working longer hours. Many of them are sitting in front of a computer for ten or twelve hours a day, at least five days a week. That does not promote health. That causes problems. Are there people who abuse the system? Of course, there are. Nobody's saying there aren't. However, that's no more of a problem than what's happening to folks who are truly unable to work. They're either forced to work and make the situation worse, or they can't find a job they can do because there are too many able-bodied and able-minded people to fill the job they might have gotten in a better economy. Buy it, or don't buy it. I know what I see in the real world right here in the US. So in a nutshell you're saying that the US standard of living has plummeted since 1997. I suppose I can buy that. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) Really? Everyone has an obamahone, a flat screen TV, an SUV in the driveway and eats Crab legs for dinner. How is that worse than 1997? ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png)
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 8, 2012 13:27:48 GMT -5
You're apparently also maiming, crippling, burning, and electrocuting yourselves 245% as much as you did then. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png)
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Nov 8, 2012 13:28:06 GMT -5
I am thinking of quitting my job or faking disability so I can live like that- where do I sign up for the free Escalade, free rent, free Steak and Lobster, free phones and free utilities? Is this what Fox news was talking about democrats voting to give themselves? The children voted for Santa, right? Where's my damn stuff at already?
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Nov 8, 2012 13:31:11 GMT -5
I appreciate the purity of your intentions.
I can only say as a hiring manager that if:
1. I had deadlines to meet and, 2. had someone sitting across my desk who would appear to be more of a risk for needing extra sick time or leave on a short notice
that my answer would not be the same as yours. I also suspect that more hiring managers would share my tainted thought process then yours.
Of course it sucks but my deadlines will be met no matter what happens. So do I choose to take a risk and hire the guy knowing that if he's out I will have to cover for him and give up what precious little time I have with my family as it is? Or do I go with the individual who appears to be physically capable of putting in the hours needed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2012 13:32:07 GMT -5
You're apparently also maiming, crippling, burning, and electrocuting yourselves 245% as much as you did then. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) Leads to a better quality of life. Just like the guy from Office Space.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 8, 2012 13:32:18 GMT -5
We've determined that there are free phones, along with free minutes to go with them.
And although I don't know how your food stamps system works, I'm reasonably sure you could buy steak and lobster if you really wanted to.
The majority of those considered "working poor" in America (those that qualify for various forms of government assistance) own a computer, at least one gaming console (such as a Playstation, etc.), a television, and cable TV. Those are all a simple matter of statistics.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Nov 8, 2012 13:34:14 GMT -5
Managers would never consider potential health care costs or missed work when hiring someone. That's just unethical. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png)
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Nov 8, 2012 13:34:49 GMT -5
The majority of those considered "working poor" in America (those that qualify for various forms of government assistance)
The working poor are those who do not qualify for the assistance, make too much money for food stamps yet receive too little pay to afford health insurance.
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vandalshandle
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Post by vandalshandle on Nov 8, 2012 13:36:23 GMT -5
"And although I don't know how your food stamps system works, I'm reasonably sure you could buy steak and lobster if you really wanted to."
I had food stamps after Katrina. All the banks were closed for weeks, so that was all we could use for groceries. We lived high on the hog! Once, we splurged and bought 2 ply toilet paper! I still feel guilty about that.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Nov 8, 2012 13:36:26 GMT -5
We've determined that there are free phones, along with free minutes to go with them. And although I don't know how your food stamps system works, I'm reasonably sure you could buy steak and lobster if you really wanted to. The majority of those considered "working poor" in America (those that qualify for various forms of government assistance) own a computer, at least one gaming console (such as a Playstation, etc.), a television, and cable TV. Those are all a simple matter of statistics. Refrigerators and A/C too- greedy bastards. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) Cable TV is bullshit -I'll give you that one.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Nov 8, 2012 13:41:54 GMT -5
"And although I don't know how your food stamps system works, I'm reasonably sure you could buy steak and lobster if you really wanted to." I had food stamps after Katrina. All the banks were closed for weeks, so that was all we could use for groceries. We lived high on the hog! Once, we splurged and bought 2 ply toilet paper! I still feel guilty about that. So you traded your stamps for cash? Food Stamps cannot be used to by toilet paper.
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vandalshandle
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Post by vandalshandle on Nov 8, 2012 13:43:49 GMT -5
"And although I don't know how your food stamps system works, I'm reasonably sure you could buy steak and lobster if you really wanted to." I had food stamps after Katrina. All the banks were closed for weeks, so that was all we could use for groceries. We lived high on the hog! Once, we splurged and bought 2 ply toilet paper! I still feel guilty about that. So you traded your stamps for cash? Food Stamps cannot be used to by toilet paper. They can in Louisiana. especially after a hurricane...provided you can find any dry toilet paper.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 8, 2012 13:49:28 GMT -5
Managers would never consider potential health care costs or missed work when hiring someone. That's just unethical. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) Oh yeah. I keep on forgetting you guys have a screwy employer-provides-the-insurance system down there. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) As for a disabled person who "might not be available", we have one of two situations: 1) The disability is such that it periodically renders a man unable to work for protracted periods of time (i.e. several days). or 2) The disability has a constant, predictable impact on productivity due to ongoing management of the condition. Case 1 would notably rarer than case 2. I admit it would be difficult to employ such a person. Case 2 would comprise the vast majority of disabilities, and in most situations I see no reason why it couldn't be dealt with by modifying the fellow's work schedule and salary so that he "effectively" works a 40 hour work week at standard pay, even though he might actually work longer hours to compensate for time off or reduced productivity. It's ten times more than what 90% of the world lives off of.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Nov 8, 2012 16:55:54 GMT -5
Virgil, "everything you've read" isn't necessarily true. While safety standards are improving, actual safety isn't. There's an attitude of "Look, we need this done. You'll do it or I'll find somebody who can, and DON'T GET CAUGHT!" I've seen people who were injured at work who were sent back to the workplace with major bones broken after being told "You're fine. You can still do light work. Just report as usual." I've seen this with my own eyes at my place of work. No, one should not be working with a fractured femur! No, one should not be working with a broken humerus! Not even light work until healing can begin. The risk is further damage and that DOES lead to permanent disability. Additionally, people are working longer hours. Many of them are sitting in front of a computer for ten or twelve hours a day, at least five days a week. That does not promote health. That causes problems. Are there people who abuse the system? Of course, there are. Nobody's saying there aren't. However, that's no more of a problem than what's happening to folks who are truly unable to work. They're either forced to work and make the situation worse, or they can't find a job they can do because there are too many able-bodied and able-minded people to fill the job they might have gotten in a better economy. Buy it, or don't buy it. I know what I see in the real world right here in the US. So in a nutshell you're saying that the US standard of living has plummeted since 1997. I suppose I can buy that. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) Actually, virgil, yes. That's exactly what I'm saying. Oh, it hasn't plummeted for everyone. It has, however, plummeted for many, and to depths that, for me, are shocking. The door on our clinic was in motion from 7am to 9pm daily, seven days a week. Weekend staff took over on Saturday mornings. It was never empty, virgil. Never. These are the disenfranchised. These were the poor, the sick, and the disabled. I didn't see Play Stations, or WIIs. There were no Escalades in the parking lot (unless they belonged to the doctors who were volunteering their time). I can only speak for what I saw in my area, but I'll tell you this: All that's written in the media about poor people bilking the system so they can eat lobster and drive an Escalade is just not true. If it's happening somewhere else, they need to deal with it there; however, it's not happening here and I'm tired of seeing the people I treated, who try so hard, painted with that filthy brush.
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vandalshandle
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Post by vandalshandle on Nov 8, 2012 17:01:19 GMT -5
It has to be true, Mmh. Rush says so!
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 8, 2012 19:37:21 GMT -5
If the system is as difficult to defraud as vandals et al. suggest, the numbers would seem to be proof of the same.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Nov 8, 2012 20:10:59 GMT -5
Disabled = Free loader unless decapitated. Or should their body still do manual labor? ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/tongue2.png)
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Nov 8, 2012 20:16:39 GMT -5
Socialist = anyone who isn't an evangelical conservative
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Nov 8, 2012 20:19:04 GMT -5
kitten, LOL!!
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Nov 9, 2012 9:39:34 GMT -5
Fiscal Conservative - Greedy bastard who only cares for self and wishes the rest of the people would die
Republican - Greedy Racist bastard who wishes the lowlifes (anyone who isn't a republican) would die.
Personal Responsibility - Leaving granny and the kids in the street to starve
Fiscal Responsibility - I have mine (always directed at a republican) the rest of you can suffer.
Charity - Government redistribution of wealthy so granny and the kids are not left in the street to die.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Nov 9, 2012 10:21:28 GMT -5
Disabled = Free loader unless decapitated. Or should their body still do manual labor? ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/tongue2.png) Somebody has to dig the hole for the burial. If not the headless, disabled freeloader then who?
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Driftr
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Post by Driftr on Nov 9, 2012 10:34:43 GMT -5
Disabled = Free loader unless decapitated. Or should their body still do manual labor? ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/tongue2.png) Somebody has to dig the hole for the burial. If not the headless, disabled freeloader then who? Shirley we can find some illegal alien to do that kind of work?
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