NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,331
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 29, 2012 10:51:17 GMT -5
Well based on what I've read on P&M and here from Calforinia residents I wouldn't say how your state is run is remotely how the rest of the country is run. It sounds like that state has a really disproportional amount of welfare recipients.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,331
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 29, 2012 11:04:24 GMT -5
I probably would too if I lived in California.
I think that says more about how there needs to be massive state reform when it comes to these programs. Because while one state is circling the drain it isn't mean every state is circling the drain.
|
|
Formerly SK
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 27, 2011 14:23:13 GMT -5
Posts: 3,255
|
Post by Formerly SK on Oct 29, 2012 11:06:02 GMT -5
Where do you live that the crime rate doubled? Are all your claims exaggerated like that one? I've lived in this area since the mid 50's and it seems that every year our law enforcement gets cut more and more, as our crime rates increase. Granted, we are near a prison and much of the crime and welfare is due to inmate families living here. But still, it makes me sick to see what is happening. If we didn't love our paid off house so much, we would move. Do you think if an auto plant opened up things would change? Maybe a towel making plant? Or silverware making plant? Industry makes or breaks an area IMO. When all the focus is on welfare/prisons OF COURSE that is what you will get.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,869
|
Post by zibazinski on Oct 29, 2012 11:11:58 GMT -5
Give it up, Lone, you won't convince anyone who thinks welfare is a RIGHT guaranteed by some higher law. Most who pay for it are sick of it. Those that receive it think its great and should keep on coming.
|
|
Formerly SK
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 27, 2011 14:23:13 GMT -5
Posts: 3,255
|
Post by Formerly SK on Oct 29, 2012 11:12:03 GMT -5
What we need to do is stop paying people to have children. Let's eliminate all credits and deductions for children. Next lets put a child tax in place. $2000 at birth must be paid to the government. The government will give out free condoms to help people avoid the penalty. I thought handing out condoms promoted premarital sex? Or is it that it's OK for the govt to hand out free birth control, but requiring health insurance companies to cover it is wrong? And I'd just LOVE to see in the constitution where you have to pay taxes to procreate. I'm sure all the tea partiers would LOVE that idea.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,869
|
Post by zibazinski on Oct 29, 2012 11:13:00 GMT -5
I think you not only should have to pay to procreate but that you should have a license to do so.
|
|
mrsdutt
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 12, 2012 7:39:38 GMT -5
Posts: 2,097
|
Post by mrsdutt on Oct 29, 2012 11:16:44 GMT -5
Wow. What kind of world would it be with NO poor people? Imagine a middle class/rich walmart cashier!!!!! Or a McD's cashier making over 50k. That would be awesome. Oh wait. Those people would be the 'new' poor. Well maybe all the companies could just make things and sell them at a lower price, like lower than now prices. That way everyone in the world can still be rich and there will never ever be a lower class. I mean we don't need any lower paying jobs. Everyone should just get a college degree for whatever is like THE BEST CAREER EVER!!!! Yeah, we can just have the old folks and the mentally ill people working at Walmart and other places. That would work. Then because everyone is rich...it won't be AS bad to take care of them. I mean so long as the old folks have adult diapers and the mental people are taking their meds....it will be PERFECT! It can be like go work 8 hours and then you can have your medicine. And your bed. Should they be allowed to have a shower just on the days they work? I mean, I wouldn't want to smell anyone of them. And sometimes those old people have a whoa smell, ya know? The world motto could be "Old and mentally ill people can have their 3 hots and a cot IF they work a few hours per day!" WOW. That would be a wonderful world to live in. There will always be poor....repeat, always! And no matter how many new social programs we start, or much much money we throw at the problem, it is growing, not shrinking Reasons fo this are numerous 1. education or skill level of the poor 2. no role models to follow 3. family/social pressure that there is no "getting out" 4. IT IS HARD TO CHANGE...and most dont think they can do it So...do we continue to throw good money after the bad, hoping that eventually something will work? While that number continies to swell, the numbers of "productive" citizens continues to shrink. Those that are paying for the others. And eventually the straw that breaks the camel's back is coming.....we wont have enough people paying to continue all the programs So at that point, people are going to be pissed...whadda ya mean, no more checks! We have to come up with solutions that will last, and solutions to lower the number of people that need and use these programs And there is no EASY answers Or maybe there always needs to be a bottom rung on the food chain. Harsh, but true.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 17, 2024 22:47:34 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2012 11:17:40 GMT -5
And why would I make an appointment with my doctor if I could just pop into the ER anytime I wantedWhy does everyone think going to the ER is so awesome and easy and that's what poor people go there? I slashed my finger in half and had to make a trip to the ER. Since I wasn't bleeding to death on hte floor I wasn't high priority. I sat in the waiting room for TWO HOURS, then it was another hour before I saw anyone (and they charge for the rooms by every 15-30 minutes). Then it took another 45 minutes before I was dismissed. $300 just to have someone glue my finger together after insurance. I think it was close to $700 pre insurance. Yeah that is AWESOME and super convieniet. I'd sure like to do that instead of making an appointment with a GP and getting in and out in an hour. I agree with you.....I avoid the ER if at all possible....I can count on one hand the number of times I've been to the ER (including visits with kids) - slammed a mini-van hatch on my nose; DD fell out of a tree and had no recollection of it (needed ct scan); DS1 had seizures (needed neurosurgeon), split lip and needed 16 stitches (needed plastic surgeon), split eyebrow and needed stitches (needed orbital socket checked); and DS2 snapped both bones in his forearm (luckily was able to be fixed with external version and not pins).....oops, that's more than 5, I lied. even still, those visits were more than enough to turn me off to ever wanting to go unless really really needed (and in most cases we were put at the top of the triage list).
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 17, 2024 22:47:34 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2012 11:24:30 GMT -5
what if they don't have a doctor? Lots of docs don't take medicaid. We don't have clinics around here. It's ER or a private doctor. My doctor takes Medicaid. so anyone who calls and says they have medicaid can get an appointment?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 17, 2024 22:47:34 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2012 11:28:43 GMT -5
Single...what you listed is what the ER was intended for. yes but the reason I don't go to the ER for anything else is because I have health insurance that allows me to go to urgent care places (and we have a ton of them around her, unlike swamp). I don't even go to our PCP (me or kids) because they are a pain in the butt for sick visits (you have to know by 8 am that you need a sick visit) and the wait for a regular visit has been over an hour. We have used CVS minute clinic for sports physicals and I used the county health department (made a donation) for the tetanus shot my daughter needed before leaving for college.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 17, 2024 22:47:34 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2012 11:29:45 GMT -5
so anyone who calls and says they have medicaid can get an appointment? As far as I know, yes. then your doctor is one in a million....most docs take a set number of medicaid patients because it isn't cost effective.
|
|
midjd
Administrator
Your Money Admin
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:09:23 GMT -5
Posts: 17,719
|
Post by midjd on Oct 29, 2012 12:01:53 GMT -5
It would be nice to have a discussion in which one side didn't misconstrue or completely fabricate the arguments coming from the other side.
No one on here has said that welfare is a "right" or guaranteed by some higher law. In fact, I don't even think I've seen any posts saying that the current welfare system DOESN'T need to be reformed.
I mean, I could write a post that said, "It's too bad that some people think that the poor should be rounded up and executed in the town square" but that wouldn't be any more accurate or fair than your quote above, and wouldn't add much to the discussion.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 17, 2024 22:47:34 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2012 12:32:33 GMT -5
The earned income tax credit is a step in the right direction of getting people off welfare and back working. This right here, just burns my buns. This money, for the most part, is NOT going to buy things that these people really need. I've seen it. It's big screens, fancy rims and car stereos and trips to Disneyland. And the rest of us are paying for it. If you are on ANY assistance, and get EITC, you have 60 DAYS to spend it. If you do not, that "savings" becomes a capitalized asset and you lose all benefits until it is gone.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,869
|
Post by zibazinski on Oct 29, 2012 12:36:07 GMT -5
Figures.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,869
|
Post by zibazinski on Oct 29, 2012 12:41:04 GMT -5
No, I don't expect them to be rounded up and executed but maybe they have to work two jobs and maybe they can't have everything they want or as many babies as having unprotected sex will give them. Maybe they actually have to suffer a bit to realize life is not going to be handed to them simply because they breathe. If welfare was difficult, if they had to stand in line to get food baskets as opposed to being able to buy whatever whenever like taxpayers fund for them and have the right to do. If they had to show up every month and prove their kids were in school and doing well there to receive their check. Plus, they aren't on drugs and those drugs include alcohol, pot, and cigarets. If you have money for that, you don't need welfare. Welfare should be very hard to get and very hard to be on and very hard to keep. Those on welfare should be like hell on earth so the goal is to get off it as fast as possible.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 17, 2024 22:47:34 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2012 13:09:34 GMT -5
If you spend some time on any of the WAH boards, you will quickly find people, residents of the USA, working for $2-4 an hour. Why do they do it? Because they can't find other jobs, have no daycare, etc... why is the wages so low? globalized workforce.
I think that just as all systems seek to find equilibrium, the US standard of living is dropping and the standard of living in other countries is rising.
|
|
midjd
Administrator
Your Money Admin
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:09:23 GMT -5
Posts: 17,719
|
Post by midjd on Oct 29, 2012 13:48:49 GMT -5
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,869
|
Post by zibazinski on Oct 29, 2012 13:51:00 GMT -5
There used to be something called "pride." Now it's called stupid if you aren't on the dole.
|
|
Sum Dum Gai
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 15:39:24 GMT -5
Posts: 19,892
|
Post by Sum Dum Gai on Oct 29, 2012 14:04:50 GMT -5
Bingo! We're currently seeing the effects of free trade. We're letting the invisible hand spread everything evenly around the world to something that a third world brick layer would consider prosperity. That's going to make formerly prosperous people, aka us, feel really fucking poor. That guy who in the past graduated high school, then went to the local plant and stamped out toaster bodies for a living, which paid enough to allow him to buy a house and raise a family, is totally screwed these days. The plant that stamps out toaster bodies is now in Tajikistan. The guys building the interior components are in Thailand, and the guy who designed the whole thing is in Belgium. The toaster company is making a killing, but Johnny American can only find a job at Walmart selling those cheap imported toasters, which doesn't pay enough to even allow him to buy one. When he asks about medical benefits, they direct him to their on staff welfare liaison who explains to him how to sign up for Medicare and food stamps. Capitalism baby.
|
|
damnotagain
Well-Known Member
Joined: Oct 19, 2012 21:18:44 GMT -5
Posts: 1,211
|
Post by damnotagain on Oct 29, 2012 14:17:49 GMT -5
Bingo! We're currently seeing the effects of free trade. We're letting the invisible hand spread everything evenly around the world to something that a third world brick layer would consider prosperity. That's going to make formerly prosperous people, aka us, feel really fucking poor. That guy who in the past graduated high school, then went to the local plant and stamped out toaster bodies for a living, which paid enough to allow him to buy a house and raise a family, is totally screwed these days. The plant that stamps out toaster bodies is now in Tajikistan. The guys building the interior components are in Thailand, and the guy who designed the whole thing is in Belgium. The toaster company is making a killing, but Johnny American can only find a job at Walmart selling those cheap imported toasters, which doesn't pay enough to even allow him to buy one. When he asks about medical benefits, they direct him to their on staff welfare liaison who explains to him how to sign up for Medicare and food stamps. Capitalism baby. The toaster will fail just after the warranty expires .
|
|
Sum Dum Gai
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 15:39:24 GMT -5
Posts: 19,892
|
Post by Sum Dum Gai on Oct 29, 2012 14:20:20 GMT -5
Good, that provides job security for the Tajiks and Thais.
|
|
Formerly SK
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 27, 2011 14:23:13 GMT -5
Posts: 3,255
|
Post by Formerly SK on Oct 29, 2012 14:22:43 GMT -5
Am I on everyone's ignore? I posted a couple of times about globalization being the root cause and no one gave me a thumbs up.
|
|
midjd
Administrator
Your Money Admin
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:09:23 GMT -5
Posts: 17,719
|
Post by midjd on Oct 29, 2012 14:24:58 GMT -5
SK, I can see you, but I think we may both be on ignore
|
|
Formerly SK
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 27, 2011 14:23:13 GMT -5
Posts: 3,255
|
Post by Formerly SK on Oct 29, 2012 14:25:48 GMT -5
Perhaps Dark is just more eloquent than I am.
|
|
Formerly SK
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 27, 2011 14:23:13 GMT -5
Posts: 3,255
|
Post by Formerly SK on Oct 29, 2012 14:33:49 GMT -5
LOL Lone!
|
|
Sum Dum Gai
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 15:39:24 GMT -5
Posts: 19,892
|
Post by Sum Dum Gai on Oct 29, 2012 14:39:25 GMT -5
I was paraphrasing Neal Stephenson from Snow Crash, and I didn't do it justice.
"Why is the Deliverator so equipped? Because people rely on him. He is a roll model. This is America. People do whatever the fuck they feel like doing, you got a problem with that? Because they have a right to. And because they have guns and no one can fucking stop them. As a result, this country has one of the worst economies in the world. When it gets down to it–we're talking trade balances here–once we've brain-drained all our technology into other countries, once things have evened out, they're making cars in Bolivia and microwaves in Tadzhikistan and selling them here–once our edge in natural resources has been made irrelevant by giant Hong Kong ships and dirigibles that can ship North Dakota all the way to New Zealand for a nickel–once the Invisible Hand has taken all those historical inequities and smeared them out into a broad global layer of what a Pakistani bricklayer would consider to be prosperity–y'know what? There's only four things we do better than anyone else
music movies microcode (software) high-speed pizza delivery"
Great book by the way.
|
|
8 Bit WWBG
Administrator
Your Money admin
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 8:57:29 GMT -5
Posts: 9,322
Today's Mood: Mega
|
Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Oct 29, 2012 14:40:52 GMT -5
...:::"The toaster will fail just after the warranty expires .":::...
You must be describing the iToaster.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 17, 2024 22:47:34 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2012 14:41:09 GMT -5
There used to be something called "pride." Now it's called stupid if you aren't on the dole. K for you, zib. Well said. ;D
|
|
midjd
Administrator
Your Money Admin
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:09:23 GMT -5
Posts: 17,719
|
Post by midjd on Oct 29, 2012 14:42:13 GMT -5
Are you really talking about how "we" will adjust to a lower standard of living, or about the lazy welfare recipients will adjust to a lower standard of living?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 17, 2024 22:47:34 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2012 14:45:47 GMT -5
I was paraphrasing Neal Stephenson from Snow Crash, and I didn't do it justice. "Why is the Deliverator so equipped? Because people rely on him. He is a roll model. This is America. People do whatever the fuck they feel like doing, you got a problem with that? Because they have a right to. And because they have guns and no one can fucking stop them. As a result, this country has one of the worst economies in the world. When it gets down to it–we're talking trade balances here–once we've brain-drained all our technology into other countries, once things have evened out, they're making cars in Bolivia and microwaves in Tadzhikistan and selling them here–once our edge in natural resources has been made irrelevant by giant Hong Kong ships and dirigibles that can ship North Dakota all the way to New Zealand for a nickel–once the Invisible Hand has taken all those historical inequities and smeared them out into a broad global layer of what a Pakistani bricklayer would consider to be prosperity–y'know what? There's only four things we do better than anyone else music movies microcode (software) high-speed pizza delivery" Great book by the way. dark, I understand, very much what you are saying. That is the big problem we face in this country. We got to start making things. I mean, real things.
|
|