midjd
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Post by midjd on Oct 29, 2012 9:32:59 GMT -5
Lone, do you ever consider the fact that your preconceived notions of what welfare recipients do and who they are color your interactions with them?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2012 9:33:54 GMT -5
You can also get away with violating labor laws because illegal immigrants have no clue what their rights are and are too afraid of getting deported. DH's employer hires a lot of illegals, in fact they advertise heavily across the boarder. Yet there are lines outside the employment office every day. It isn't because Americans are too lazy to take these jobs therefore employers have no choice but to hire illegals. There are many many perks the company gets out of hiring non-citizens. DH used to think the same way as a lot of people on these threads until he actually worked for an employer that has a very large illegal immigrant employment base (and not all of them are Mexican, FYI). drama, I am afraid, you are right on.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Oct 29, 2012 9:34:49 GMT -5
Tough Times (remember her?) also made statements like this. I refuse to be hostage to such ideas. Work your butt off to feed them so they don't eat you? No, you just be willing to pay more for your curtains/dishes/towels because the product is made in the US by a company paying $15/hr to its employees. How many cheap towels do you need? Is that worth more to you than paying increased taxes because the only jobs around are sub-minimum wage migrant farm jobs? Even if the only jobs around are legal, minimum wage jobs, they will not support a family so that family will end up receiving welfare. Walmart's employees typically receive food stamps and Medicaid because they don't offer FT, non-minimum wage jobs. Would you rather continue to get cheap stuff from them, or pay more for your stuff and not have their employees getting welfare? My point is EITHER WAY, you will pay.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 29, 2012 9:36:18 GMT -5
Isn't this similar to how it's being done now? I don't understand how this will prevent them from asking that their hours be cut and why would you cut the benefits by a percentage, then add back a percentage? \ No, if you make $501 and the cutoff for food stamps is $500, you don't get food stamps.
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rileyoday
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Post by rileyoday on Oct 29, 2012 9:38:44 GMT -5
Starting next year the need will go down. We will soon have 12 million new jobs from new GOP policies.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 29, 2012 9:39:19 GMT -5
DH's employer does the same thing, Steve.
Most of these "mirgrant" workers also recieve aid as well because they have no clue how anything works with their employer and the employer is happy to keep it that way. They encourage them to go to the state office and apply for medicaid. Saves the company quite a bit of money.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Oct 29, 2012 9:40:44 GMT -5
By gradually reducing benefits proportionate to income to incentivize people to move up the ladder? I can't speak for anyone else, but the only reason I don't sit home and collect assistance is because I can make more money by working. If I could earn the same paycheck by sitting around and watching TV, I'd be nuts to work! I don't think those on assistance are fundamentally different. Here's what I am seeing...there is no amount of incentive that will make many of them work harder. If they had it in them to be this motivated, they wouldn't be in the position they are now in. Over the last 20 years I have seen probably 100 workers, who were receiving welfare, filter through our family's businesses. Do you know what happens when they get their Xmas bonus checks? They take the next few days off and we scramble to fill positions. When their EITC checks come in, I usually have to fill in because so many take off on trips. That money doesn't get saved. It's spend within a week. They eat and drink crap, party on the weekends, come in hung over, smoke pot on the job and could care less about what tomorrow brings. These are the people we are trying to motivate to better themselves? Yes, but would those people do the same thing if, instead of receiving a 3K EITC at YE, received an extra $50/wk in wages? There is a huge difference in human behavior when the money comes as a windfall vs a regular drip. And frankly, considering most US households have CC debt and car debt and SL and iPhones they can't afford, etc. I would hardly say the poor own the financial irresponsibility label.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 29, 2012 9:40:45 GMT -5
How many of Walmart's workers qualify for Medicaid?
I like cheap stuff as much as the other person does, but I also recognize that it comes at a price.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 29, 2012 9:41:44 GMT -5
Huh, if people don't want to work for DH's employer then why every single day when DH turns into the parking lot there is a line practically all the way back to the gas station for the employment office? And I am not sure what would be a sufficient punishment to make corporations stop advertising for and hiring illegals. DH's company got slammed to teh tune of millions for advertising across the boarder. It was a drop in the bucket compared to how much the company makes. They paid it and went right back to doing what they were doing, they are just more discreet about it.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Oct 29, 2012 9:45:06 GMT -5
That is really good insurance. I wish we only had a $500 deductible.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 29, 2012 9:46:05 GMT -5
And why would I make an appointment with my doctor if I could just pop into the ER anytime I wantedWhy does everyone think going to the ER is so awesome and easy and that's what poor people go there? I slashed my finger in half and had to make a trip to the ER. Since I wasn't bleeding to death on hte floor I wasn't high priority. I sat in the waiting room for TWO HOURS, then it was another hour before I saw anyone (and they charge for the rooms by every 15-30 minutes). Then it took another 45 minutes before I was dismissed. $300 just to have someone glue my finger together after insurance. I think it was close to $700 pre insurance. Yeah that is AWESOME and super convieniet. I'd sure like to do that instead of making an appointment with a GP and getting in and out in an hour. I love sitting in the ER at 11:00 on a Saturday night when my kid has an ear infection and raging fever. We don't have urgent care clinics around here. After hours medical care requires the ER, insured or not.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 29, 2012 9:48:59 GMT -5
I deal with the same population through work, and I don't have the same perception you do.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Oct 29, 2012 9:50:58 GMT -5
I meant - do you consider the fact that your preconceived notions about welfare recipients cause you to see their actions through that lens?
If you think all welfare recipients are lazy good-for-nothings, when you come across one who DOESN'T fit that label, you may not see it - because that person wouldn't fit into your idea of all welfare recipients as lazy good-for-nothings.
I find that when I go into a situation expecting a certain reaction, I get it - good or bad. Our attitudes are somewhat self-fulfilling that way.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 29, 2012 9:52:47 GMT -5
what if the person is stupid and all they are capable of are stocking shelves?
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Oct 29, 2012 9:53:53 GMT -5
Then they should die, and decrease the surplus population.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 29, 2012 10:00:23 GMT -5
as long as they don't cost me anything..........
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 29, 2012 10:03:20 GMT -5
I love sitting in the ER at 11:00 on a Saturday night when my kid has an ear infection and raging fever. We don't have urgent care clinics around here. After hours medical care requires the ER, insured or not. I'm not talking about emergencies. I'm talking about the minor issues that make the hospital ER receptionist shake her head and wonder why it can't wait until the next day when the doctor's office is open. what if they don't have a doctor? Lots of docs don't take medicaid. We don't have clinics around here. It's ER or a private doctor.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Oct 29, 2012 10:05:11 GMT -5
You can also get away with violating labor laws because illegal immigrants have no clue what their rights are and are too afraid of getting deported. DH's employer hires a lot of illegals, in fact they advertise heavily across the boarder. Yet there are lines outside the employment office every day. It isn't because Americans are too lazy to take these jobs therefore employers have no choice but to hire illegals. There are many many perks the company gets out of hiring non-citizens. DH used to think the same way as a lot of people on these threads until he actually worked for an employer that has a very large illegal immigrant employment base (and not all of them are Mexican, FYI). Then these perks need to stop. My nephew is a contractor, my DH's good friend runs a well drilling business, my kids own businesses and I have talked to business owners in our area and I'm telling you...they all have trouble finding help. People don't want to work these jobs. Why? Because it doesn't pay enough or the work is too hard. Gee, I can't imagine why people don't want these jobs then...
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 29, 2012 10:05:43 GMT -5
A lot of doctor's offices aren't taking medicaid anymore or limit hte patients. A lot are also turning away people who do not have insurance.
I certianly understand why they do both, but that really puts a constraint on where you can go to get medical attention.
The ER has to see everyone, regardless of why you are there. However all they are required to do is stablize you and send you on your way, it isn't like you can get chemotherapy or anything like that at the ER.
People aren't going there because it is super awesome and convieniet for them to do so, it is because they don't have any other options.
Some hospitals are stepping up. Alegent is putting "Quick Care" clinics into local supermarkets. You don't need insurance and you don't need an appointment. Visits cost $60 or less depending on why you are there.
But not all areas have the funds or means to be able to do that. So it's either the office that won't see you because you have medicaid or the ER.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Oct 29, 2012 10:05:57 GMT -5
You must spend a lot of time sitting around in ER waiting rooms and eavesdropping on intake conversations to know when/why welfare recipients choose to go to the ER.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 29, 2012 10:12:54 GMT -5
The hospital whose clinics I use is a Catholic Jesuit hospital. As part of being a Jesuit hospital they are supposed to do so much "chairty work" a year. The chain my mom works for is the same way. The bill is paid/written off by Catholic Charities and a couple other Catholic based charity gruops that gives a very large donation every year to the hospitals for just that.
To me it looks like a bunch of poor people are suck up my hard earned tax dollars.
Did you work in billing too? If you didn't work in billing how do you know the bills aren't being paid?
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Oct 29, 2012 10:17:25 GMT -5
What I expect is for these people to get off their butts and get the educations they need to better themselves. Stop working for the weekend partying and go to night school. And no, we won't be paying either way. Why? Because the taxpayer is fed up. It is going to get real ugly, soon. Ugly for who? You think the poor's problems won't affect your community, YOUR quality of life? Name ONE country with no social net for the poor where the poor aren't living on the streets stealing everything not nailed down. Have you even been to a 3rd world country (note there are NO first world counties without social services).
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 29, 2012 10:18:03 GMT -5
what if they don't have a doctor? Lots of docs don't take medicaid. We don't have clinics around here. It's ER or a private doctor. My doctor takes Medicaid. Mine doesn't.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 29, 2012 10:19:11 GMT -5
The entire clinic I go to doesn't accept Medicaid.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 29, 2012 10:22:22 GMT -5
So you don't know the bill wasn't paid then. The Catholic hospitals here are expected to write off a certain amount of their work every year. The charities give them the funds in place of the patient paying the bill. So just because a bill didn't get paid doesn't mean the person is a bum sucking off the tax payer.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Oct 29, 2012 10:25:11 GMT -5
Lone - again - do you ever consider the fact that your attitude toward welfare recipients is a self-fulfilling prophecy?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2012 10:28:53 GMT -5
What we need to do is stop paying people to have children. Let's eliminate all credits and deductions for children. Next lets put a child tax in place. $2000 at birth must be paid to the government. The government will give out free condoms to help people avoid the penalty.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 29, 2012 10:34:31 GMT -5
You probably don't see those people because they aren't the ones that have to make a trip every five minutes to the social worker.
Same with the ER. People who are healthy, have a doctor who accepts medicaid, have insurance etc are not going to be in the ER every five minutes.
If you came to my daycare you'd assume that every person who uses it is a teen mom. In reality it's right behind the high school so a disproportional amount of teens utilize it.
o up to the hospital daycare and you are going to see mostly professionals (doctor's, nurses etc). I doubt you'd see a single teen mom up there.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 29, 2012 10:41:50 GMT -5
Because single teen moms aren't ever doctors, stereotype muchWell unless the 16 year old is Doogie Howser I am not exactly sure how a high school student is a doctor.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 29, 2012 10:47:43 GMT -5
Don't you live in California, lone?
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