sgtjer
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Post by sgtjer on Oct 19, 2012 15:56:29 GMT -5
"Yes, it would have been, it is but in light of what happened in Benghazi, he can't capitalize on it."
Translation: You won't vote for him because he was successful getting the 9/11 actual culprit ... but there are those who give him high praise for doing what his predecessor didn't do. And in the foreign policy debate, it will accrue to his credit.
It's easy to minimize the death of OBL if you are not an Obama fan, but if you are open minded (AKA, undecided) about this election, it's a big factor in his favor. I expect him to be proud of that at the next debate.
What has Mitt done that will give him points in the foreign policy debate?
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dancinmama
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Post by dancinmama on Oct 19, 2012 16:21:32 GMT -5
"Yes, it would have been, it is but in light of what happened in Benghazi, he can't capitalize on it." Translation: You won't vote for him because he was successful getting the 9/11 actual culprit ... but there are those who give him high praise for doing what his predecessor didn't do. And in the foreign policy debate, it will accrue to his credit. It's easy to minimize the death of OBL if you are not an Obama fan, but if you are open minded (AKA, undecided) about this election, it's a big factor in his favor. I expect him to be proud of that at the next debate. What has Mitt done that will give him points in the foreign policy debate? I'm not minimizing it at all. In an earlier post I said that it was the one thing that Obama did that 100% of the people in the country are behind him on.
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sgtjer
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Post by sgtjer on Oct 19, 2012 16:37:32 GMT -5
"In an earlier post I said that it was the one thing that Obama did that 100% of the people in the country are behind him on." As it should be, revenge is non-partisan. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) Mitt peaked at the first debate, and will have to somehow bring the next one back to economics. And even there, the Prez' proposal to cut military spending should resonate with deficit hawks. Otherwise, criticizing Obama over Benghazi is not quite the same as having positive achievements of your own internationally. Mitt has had his share of missteps on his trips abroad.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Oct 19, 2012 17:17:42 GMT -5
I don't understand why the Right thinks Bengazi is a winning issue for them. Everytime it comes up, someone is bound to point out that their candidate was holding a press conference WHILE an American embassy was under attack and before he had all the facts.
His behavior that night was not only shameful; it was the act of someone who opens their pie hole before they think it through. Not presidential.
"In an earlier post I said that it was the one thing that Obama did that 100% of the people in the country are behind him on."
Even there, a large number on the right wrongly accused him of trying to take all the credit for that accomplishment.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Oct 19, 2012 17:26:58 GMT -5
Mitt has had his share of missteps on his trips abroadYa think? ![](http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff155/JiminiChristmas/smileys/1-1.gif)
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Oct 19, 2012 17:27:11 GMT -5
I don't think you're going to want to risk the farm on references to AQ being missing from Obama's stump speeches. My guess is, they'll be there. I think, sometimes, the candidates change things up a little depending on to whom they're speaking. We'll see. My bet is on mentions of AQ. I never stated AQ was out of his speeches. I said his stock statement, "AQ is on the run" is out of his speeches. It is impossible not to talk about AQ, and I would not expect it not to be mentioned.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 19, 2012 18:29:16 GMT -5
I doubt that Benghazi will have any effect on the electoral vote; there are too many higher priorities on the table, and most centrists focus on priorities, vs hyperpartisan divisive creations. They get the base all foaming at the mouth, but the Independents vote with logic instead of emotion.That's what we're counting on. are you?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 19, 2012 18:30:09 GMT -5
I don't think you're going to want to risk the farm on references to AQ being missing from Obama's stump speeches. My guess is, they'll be there. I think, sometimes, the candidates change things up a little depending on to whom they're speaking. We'll see. My bet is on mentions of AQ. I never stated AQ was out of his speeches. no. YOU didn't. i think this discussion has moved beyond you at this point, VB.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2012 20:45:53 GMT -5
Hope it stays out, it is just not the truth.
From Lara logan speech 10/7/12
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Oct 19, 2012 21:23:32 GMT -5
Dancins post...:
"And you are absolutely right, the majority of the electorate in "the red states, the blue states, and ALL of the United States" is the economy. Unfortunately that is bad news for Obama because he is polling way behind Romney on any issue related to the economy."
My thoughts , and while he mentions he took over with some bad stuff facing him..I personally beleive and feel he should mention it..that no one knew how bad it really was..possible something that can't be measured..unless nothing was done..possible like in the big depression when another GOP POTUS did nothing..thought was things would sort them selves out..and in this one , if nothing done..the bank bail out, the stimulus, the auto industries ..extended social programs..food stamps increase, unemployment extensions for the Stateas..and other such programs..possible we would be in a depression..to this date actually..
I have to ask , are all those, the posters here, who are big in the criticicing , dissing of the POTUS [ You all know who you are }..are you all that secure in their employments, financila situation , that you would have no problem if we were in a recession today...? Just curiouse..also, wonder , have any of you here had to apply for unemployment, or unemployment extensions..or food stamps or other social program or had any neighbors , friends, relatives avail them selves of any of these programs..possible a school teacher, cop or a worker who benefitted by the stimulus in some ways..kept working or re hired because of..
Something to realize, recessions are NOT short term situations, events...In our Big depression..if it wasn't for WW2 , who knows when we would have pulled out of it..I beleive if Obama hadn't done many of these programs , we would have been in much worse shape then we are and o me, it is going to take time but we are starting to slowly come out of it ..our problems , though till a long way to go and beleiv he has earned a shot to finish the job or if feel it still won't be enough time..at least get us a long way toward full recovery and a new beginning for the kids..
Last thing we need is a new face with ideas which are going to junk all that has been done and start all over again..and also feel , is one who will be more apt to be confronational as they have alreay said they would be with China, Russia, Egypt, Iran and any one else who it seems has some disagreements with....been down that road before..am tired of it...His feeling, never to cut the military...he said it , a few times...with all my respect to those who serve..when it comes to duplication, waste, over runs..a hard look at that department is warrented..IMHO.
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dancinmama
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Post by dancinmama on Oct 19, 2012 23:24:16 GMT -5
My thoughts , and while he mentions he took over with some bad stuff facing him..I personally beleive and feel he should mention it..that no one knew how bad it really was..possible something that can't be measured..unless nothing was done..possible like in the big depression when another GOP POTUS did nothing..thought was things would sort them selves out..and in this one , if nothing done..the bank bail out, the stimulus, the auto industries ..extended social programs..food stamps increase, unemployment extensions for the Stateas..and other such programs..possible we would be in a depression..to this date actually.. The unfortunate thing for Obama is that he made promises that he did not keep. In 2/'09 he went so far as to say that if he could not fix the economy in three years it would be a one term presidency. Why on earth would he say such a thing? I will admit that the economy was ugly when he assumed the office, but I also feel that he lacked the experience necessary to fix the problems.
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dancinmama
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Post by dancinmama on Oct 19, 2012 23:33:25 GMT -5
Last thing we need is a new face with ideas which are going to junk all that has been done and start all over again..and also feel , is one who will be more apt to be confronational as they have alreay said they would be with China, Russia, Egypt, Iran and any one else who it seems has some disagreements with....been down that road before..am tired of it...His feeling, never to cut the military...he said it , a few times...with all my respect to those who serve..when it comes to duplication, waste, over runs..a hard look at that department is warrented..IMHO. What exactly has been done? The economy is still in the toilet and the national debt is growing exponentially. Let's face it, the federal government does not do anything cost effectively, the military included. The duplication, waste, etc. that you speak of permeates all areas of federal spending, not just the military.
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dancinmama
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Post by dancinmama on Oct 20, 2012 0:00:15 GMT -5
I have to ask , are all those, the posters here, who are big in the criticicing , dissing of the POTUS [ You all know who you are }..are you all that secure in their employments, financila situation , that you would have no problem if we were in a recession today...? Just curiouse..also, wonder , have any of you here had to apply for unemployment, or unemployment extensions..or food stamps or other social program or had any neighbors , friends, relatives avail them selves of any of these programs..possible a school teacher, cop or a worker who benefitted by the stimulus in some ways..kept working or re hired because of.. I'm just curious as to how old you are. Just because someone may have benefited from the stimulus or know someone else who did, that doesn't prove that it was the best solution to the problem. Now, we have an economy that is not any better and a national debt that has spiraled out of control. I wouldn't have like the idea no matter who had been President. I personally do not believe that massive government spending is a way to prosperity. Who do you think is going to pay all that money back? Oh, that's right. Obama's gonna tax the rich. There's just one problem...taxing the rich would be like pissing on a forest fire, yet that's all I hear come out of Obama's mouth with regards to how he is going to tackle the debt and deficit. It is not a viable solution.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Oct 20, 2012 8:04:32 GMT -5
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Oct 20, 2012 8:41:56 GMT -5
My thoughts , and while he mentions he took over with some bad stuff facing him..I personally beleive and feel he should mention it..that no one knew how bad it really was..possible something that can't be measured..unless nothing was done..possible like in the big depression when another GOP POTUS did nothing..thought was things would sort them selves out..and in this one , if nothing done..the bank bail out, the stimulus, the auto industries ..extended social programs..food stamps increase, unemployment extensions for the Stateas..and other such programs..possible we would be in a depression..to this date actually.. The unfortunate thing for Obama is that he made promises that he did not keep. In 2/'09 he went so far as to say that if he could not fix the economy in three years it would be a one term presidency. Why on earth would he say such a thing? I will admit that the economy was ugly when he assumed the office, but I also feel that he lacked the experience necessary to fix the problems. I miss most of what Obama and other politicians say since I don't have cable nor rabbit ears. Why would he say something so stupid? He's a politician? No one could have fixed the economy in one term. He could have done more to be sure. Unfortunately the things I think he should have done and will not Romney will go the other way on and make it more likely a second bigger credit crisis tanks us. Or most of us. Those traders on Wall Street though rich do not create jobs. Many knowingly destroy some with bad bond deals sold to local and out of country governments. I do think Obama has made an error in not admitting the economy is still bad and needs work. Still, I don't see the value in Romney's plan of spending even more money on defense when we are in a depression and no one is attacking us here.
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dancinmama
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Post by dancinmama on Oct 20, 2012 9:34:04 GMT -5
The unfortunate thing for Obama is that he made promises that he did not keep. In 2/'09 he went so far as to say that if he could not fix the economy in three years it would be a one term presidency. Why on earth would he say such a thing? I will admit that the economy was ugly when he assumed the office, but I also feel that he lacked the experience necessary to fix the problems. I miss most of what Obama and other politicians say since I don't have cable nor rabbit ears. Why would he say something so stupid? He's a politician?No, because he had already been elected at the time that he said it. He was either being naive or he was clueless (stupidity). It didn't give me a lot of confidence in him then and I still don't have any now.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 20, 2012 9:46:49 GMT -5
The unfortunate thing for Obama is that he made promises that he did not keep. In 2/'09 he went so far as to say that if he could not fix the economy in three years it would be a one term presidency. Why on earth would he say such a thing? I will admit that the economy was ugly when he assumed the office, but I also feel that he lacked the experience necessary to fix the problems. I miss most of what Obama and other politicians say since I don't have cable nor rabbit ears. Why would he say something so stupid? He's a politician? No one could have fixed the economy in one term. He could have done more to be sure. Unfortunately the things I think he should have done and will not Romney will go the other way on and make it more likely a second bigger credit crisis tanks us. Or most of us. Those traders on Wall Street though rich do not create jobs. Many knowingly destroy some with bad bond deals sold to local and out of country governments. I do think Obama has made an error in not admitting the economy is still bad and needs work. Still, I don't see the value in Romney's plan of spending even more money on defense when we are in a depression and no one is attacking us here. How many politicians do you see who haven't made stupid remarks, and haven't made promises they weren't able (or willing) to keep? I can't think of one. This is something all of them do, and something they shouldn't do. I don't, however, think we're going to find the magic wand that, when waved, changes the behaviors of politicians to be more responsible. History would indicate that ain't happenin'. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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dancinmama
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Post by dancinmama on Oct 20, 2012 10:11:52 GMT -5
No one could have fixed the economy in one term. He could have done more to be sure. Unfortunately the things I think he should have done and will not Romney will go the other way on and make it more likely a second bigger credit crisis tanks us. Or most of us. Those traders on Wall Street though rich do not create jobs. Many knowingly destroy some with bad bond deals sold to local and out of country governments. Who knows what someone else could have done in one term; we'll never know. We also don't know how bad it would have gotten if Obama hadn't borrowed and spent $800B in stimulus. I'm not saying that perhaps some stimulus wasn't needed, but there were a lot of dollars spent where we did not get a whole lot of bang for our buck. And we're going to be paying interest on that money for years to come. What I did know when Obama ran for office in '08 was that he simply had no experience behind him that made him qualified for the job. He had never run anything - a company or government at any level. He had never had to balance a budget. Obama's record on the economy is dismal. I wish I had confidence that things might be different if he was reelected, but nothing he has done with the economy gives me any sense that he knows yet how to fix this thing even after having spent almost 4 years in "on the job training". It seems to me that his only plan is to "give it more time". We can't afford more time. This nation is already $16T in debt. If we continue on this path, it will get to the point where there simply will not be enough money to help people because most of what we earn/produce will have to go toward paying off the debt; as a result the standard of living in this country will severely decline.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2012 10:16:23 GMT -5
You know that the majority of the stimulus was TAX CUTS. Why is it Obama has to account for how he will 'pay for' tax cuts.. but Romney, or any other republican, doesn't ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ... Oh, that's a cut... that's not spending... we'll still have revenue... gag... The economy record is NOT dismal. It is slow but steady growth of the private sector, shrinking the public sector, recovered stock market, record corporate profits, lowest individual taxes in 50 years....
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 20, 2012 10:24:00 GMT -5
I'll tell you a little secret, dancinmama. The standard of living for a whole buncha people in this country needs to decline. We've been living, as individuals, high on the hog. Now, we've found there is no ladder and we're up to our elbows in mud. Pretty soon, that hog we're standing on is gonna go under. People are being paid outrageous salaries to potter about on the internet for a good portion of the day. Salaries are inflated. Prices of goods are inflated. Reality has gone right out the window and it needs to get back inside. A family of four doesn't need three SUV's, two boats, six wide screen TVs, and a vacation home. What we're seeing, too often, is greed run wild. It needs to stop, and it isn't the poor who need to stop it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2012 10:38:35 GMT -5
No kidding... all the things people SHOULD do, but don't actually have positive short term economic impact... save more, pay down debt... they have done during the past 4 years.... things government should do, but that doesn't have positive short term economic impact, like shrink public employment, has happended during the past 4 years... things the economy needed... busting insustainable bubbles and adjusting to more realistic housing prices, etc... have occured in the last 4 years.... incredibly at the same time we HAVEstill managed to go from shedding 100s of thousands of jobs... tosteady private sector growth, record corporate profits, and good market gains.... it has been a very functional time of setting up a longer term, SUSTAINABLE, economy....
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Oct 20, 2012 10:41:41 GMT -5
I don't think Obama's remark regarding the economy was too far off the mark. Look at all of those who consistently whine that the economy hasn't recovered fast enough or at all. This is their reasoning for voting for Mitt Romney, despite the gains that have been made over the last 4 years. This is the Republican basis for making Obama a one term POTUS, and he was very astute to recognize this right out of the gate.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Oct 20, 2012 11:02:30 GMT -5
I'll tell you a little secret, dancinmama. The standard of living for a whole buncha people in this country needs to decline. We've been living, as individuals, high on the hog. Now, we've found there is no ladder and we're up to our elbows in mud. Pretty soon, that hog we're standing on is gonna go under. People are being paid outrageous salaries to potter about on the internet for a good portion of the day. Salaries are inflated. Prices of goods are inflated. Reality has gone right out the window and it needs to get back inside. A family of four doesn't need three SUV's, two boats, six wide screen TVs, and a vacation home. What we're seeing, too often, is greed run wild. It needs to stop, and it isn't the poor who need to stop it. I would suggest we start with welfare payments. Look at their multiple suv's, free cellphones, and .more gold on their bodies than humans should physically carry due to weight constraints. Question. Have you ever stood in a grocery line behind the foodstamp queens and kings, loaded down with gold and silver rings and bracelets, who pay in foodstamps, then pull out the wads of $100 bills that would choke a horse, to pay for the beer and wine, then load everything up in a hummer or BMW. Start with government redistribution reduction before adding taxes.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2012 11:03:23 GMT -5
No. I haven't. Please take pictures next time so we can all see what that is like.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2012 11:05:19 GMT -5
The 'welfare queen' I know lives in a trailor, drives an old vehicle, waitresses as much as she can, takes really good care of her little boy, and plans for when she can take a few classes and maybe get a better job... what little assistance she gets by way of food stamps/WIC I begrudge her not at all...
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 20, 2012 11:09:28 GMT -5
No, Value Buy, I haven't, and until recently, I delivered medical care to that population. I've read all about the sort of thing you describe on right-wing blogs across the internet (mostly written by owners of 3 SUVs, or the equivalent), but I have not seen that personally ... not at the grocery store, and not within the clinic's patient population. No once in over 15 years.
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dancinmama
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Post by dancinmama on Oct 20, 2012 11:37:22 GMT -5
I'll tell you a little secret, dancinmama. The standard of living for a whole buncha people in this country needs to decline. We've been living, as individuals, high on the hog. Now, we've found there is no ladder and we're up to our elbows in mud. Pretty soon, that hog we're standing on is gonna go under. People are being paid outrageous salaries to potter about on the internet for a good portion of the day. Salaries are inflated. Prices of goods are inflated. Reality has gone right out the window and it needs to get back inside. A family of four doesn't need three SUV's, two boats, six wide screen TVs, and a vacation home. What we're seeing, too often, is greed run wild. It needs to stop, and it isn't the poor who need to stop it. You are operating under the premiss that the US economy is a finite pie. That is not the case. When Joe Blow makes $150K he is not somehow taking something away from someone who makes only $50K. But let's assume that your premiss is correct? How would you divvy up that pie? By redistributing the wealth of those that make more to those who don't through taxation or some other means? Do you believe that that gives people any incentive to work harder to earn more or to take a risk to start a business or think outside the box to come up with a new product or idea. It is not a path to prosperity as a people or as a nation. Do some people get paid way to much for what they do? Hell, I can't say because I am not in their shoes. I don't know what they have to give up to do the job. Certainly I don't agree that a CEO that screws up a company should receive millions in bonuses when they leave. Along the same lines, perhaps movie stars and rock stars and professional athletes get paid way too much too; but I can't put a $$ figure on how much losing your lack of privacy is worth, so I can't really say. My DH works for a Fortune 500 corporation. He is salaried and earns good money, but under $200K. Sometimes between his commute and his work day he is gone 12 hours. Often times he comes home, eats, and is back to work on his computer until 11:00 at night. Then he's back up at 5:00 am the next morning to do it all over again. So although he makes what most people would consider REALLY good money, he/we pay a price for him to earn it and when you break it down into dollars per hour, it begins not to look all that good. Regardlesss, our economy is not finite pie with only so much to go around. We live in a global economy so the pie extends way beyond our own shores, yet Obama would want people to believe that there is some "fair share" to be had by all. It simply is not the case. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The true ladder up for everyone in this country is through education, not through redistribution. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I find it interesting that you are singling out those who make "outrageous salaries" as the ones who potter around on the internet. I know that not everyone who can do it, does do it; but if you go over to YM, you'll see that it happens across all salary levels and we're all paying a price for it in the loss of production.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 20, 2012 11:40:28 GMT -5
No, dancinmama, I'm not looking at the economy as a finite pie. Again, you're trying to tell me what I think. You can't do that because you don't know and you don't understand when I try to tell you, whether because I've failed to explain it properly or you've failed to give what I'm saying unbiased attention. I'm not talking about redistributing wealth. I'm talking about backing down those greedy expectations in all quarters. That's what I said. I said nothing about redistribution. That's your topic, not mine. I'd think that would have been clear when I said people don't need 3 SUVs, 6 wide-screen TVs, etc.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Oct 20, 2012 11:41:14 GMT -5
Response 407 is Very well stated. Thank you!
If you make it, spend it the way you want to. Not the way the Government wants to.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2012 11:44:20 GMT -5
The only thing anyone has said on the receiving end even remotely about 'fair share' .... is that in a society like ours, a minimal level of sustanance living should be guarenteed... for the benefit of ALL citizens and sustainability of our union.
The 'fair share' that generally comes up is not in receiving, but in paying for... ie. if this system provides you with a much higher than average, in fact best in the world type of lifestyle, then your 'fair share' in supporting and sustaining that system is going to be higher as well... progressively and proportionately, like the benefits received from the system...
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