happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Oct 3, 2012 14:22:57 GMT -5
The men were / I was Leader / Not a Team Player "Strong-Willed / Bitchy Decisive / Pushy Willing to Make the Hard Choices / Doesn't Care About Other's Feelings Confident / Arrogant"
I HATE this shit.
I worked for one facility manager that was very anti-woman, except for whores, admin assistants (when they were acceptably demure) and waitresses. Probably he also liked his momma, not so sure about his wife, he certainly yelled at her on the phone a lot.
When I got pissed, I was 'hysterical.' When I refused to back down on something, I wasn't being 'nice.'
What an ignorant toad of a man. He ended up getting fired for cooking the books. That's karma for you.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Oct 3, 2012 14:29:36 GMT -5
Ok. Seriously and honestly. How many women here would not mind if their husbands/fiances/boyfriends/significant others raided their closet and wore a dress out in public? I'd be out of that relationship faster than he could get out of my dress. ---------------------------- I'm short. My SOs tend to be very tall. If one of them borrowed a dress of mine to wear in public, his junk would be exposed. Not a good look for a man.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Oct 3, 2012 14:30:56 GMT -5
Milee: To add to your list (though I don't know if you ever experienced it An awesome dad for cutting out early to catch his kid's t-ball game/self-selecting out of the promotion process by putting family over work
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Oct 3, 2012 14:36:18 GMT -5
When I was about 25 I attended church with my then bf (I am not religious but he was). We went to the minister's house for lunch after the service and some how the conversation turned to cooking and I expressed that I don't cook. The minister told me that I had better learn to cook if I ever wanted to get married because my husband would expect me to perform "wifely duties" and cooking was one of them. I replied by stating I might not want to get married. He then proceeded to tell me that I wasn't a "real woman" and that the church offered some gender role classes that I might want to take My bf didn't say a word during this conversation. We broke up that night...
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Oct 3, 2012 14:37:37 GMT -5
I do hope you know I wasn't insulting you or your husband. After I read what I wrote, it sounded like I was and I apologize if you took it that way. I was not for one second meaning what I sounded like I meant. We are all just attracted to different things and that would not be something I could handle. Karma to you for a mature and considerate post when you would probably have been well within your rights to be offended.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Oct 3, 2012 14:38:44 GMT -5
Amen.
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 3, 2012 14:40:40 GMT -5
Milee: To add to your list (though I don't know if you ever experienced it An awesome dad for cutting out early to catch his kid's t-ball game/self-selecting out of the promotion process by putting family over work In all fairness, I didn't experience this one and the male partners - they were all male - all worked insane hours and had stay at home spouses. Don't remember any of them ever leaving early to catch a ball game, but maybe it happened. I do remember having one of those oh-dear-God-what-kind-of-place-is-this-Hellhole moments one Saturday while working with one of said partners. It was right when the Lion King movie came out, he had 4 kids under the age of 8 and was unaware of what the Lion King even was. Told me he spent exactly zero time with those kids because I had talked to his daughter about her Lion King shoes, her Lion King book, etc. It was sad for me to think that a dad would have so little understanding of something that would have been a thing that at least one of his kids was into and talking about. I don't think with the hours that we worked that any of those men could have made it without a stay at home wife. They looked blankly at us if we needed to leave by 5 just once every three weeks in order to pick up dry cleaning, for example - had no clue how dry cleaning even worked since their wives handled every single detail of the house. It kinda sucked to be trying to do their job and still have to do most of the wife stuff as well.
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kgb18
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Post by kgb18 on Oct 3, 2012 14:40:50 GMT -5
I would have far bigger problems with DH wearing a Speedo than I would a dress.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Oct 3, 2012 14:42:47 GMT -5
When I was about 25 I attended church with my then bf (I am not religious but he was). We went to the minister's house for lunch after the service and some how the conversation turned to cooking and I expressed that I don't cook. The minister told me that I had better learn to cook if I ever wanted to get married because my husband would expect me to perform "wifely duties" and cooking was one of them. I replied by stating I might not want to get married. He then proceeded to tell me that I wasn't a "real woman" and that the church offered some gender role classes that I might want to take My bf didn't say a word during this conversation. We broke up that night... Ouch. Was this a Catholic church or some other denomination?
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Oct 3, 2012 14:44:17 GMT -5
When I was about 25 I attended church with my then bf (I am not religious but he was). We went to the minister's house for lunch after the service and some how the conversation turned to cooking and I expressed that I don't cook. The minister told me that I had better learn to cook if I ever wanted to get married because my husband would expect me to perform "wifely duties" and cooking was one of them. I replied by stating I might not want to get married. He then proceeded to tell me that I wasn't a "real woman" and that the church offered some gender role classes that I might want to take My bf didn't say a word during this conversation. We broke up that night... Ouch. Was this a Catholic church or some other denomination? Southern Baptist
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Oct 3, 2012 14:46:36 GMT -5
I could see that. At least that lunch saved you from staying with then BF. ;D
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Oct 3, 2012 14:46:59 GMT -5
GEL: First- NO WORRIES. It didn't even occur to me to be offended. I think you and I have had some version of this conversation before. Attraction is such an odd thing. Everyone is different. There are things that other people find attractive that would cause me to walk out in a heartbeat- for example, one of DH's former GFs wanted him to order for her in a restaurtant. She didn't want to tell him what she wanted, or even for him to ask her, she wanted to not look at the menu and just to have him order for them both. She found this very "manly" and attractive. Our relationship wouldn't have lasted past the second time he tried that, if he'd tried that with me.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Oct 3, 2012 14:47:06 GMT -5
I could see that. At least that lunch saved you from staying with then BF. ;D That's how I look at too
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Oct 3, 2012 14:49:09 GMT -5
GEL: First- NO WORRIES. It didn't even occur to me to be offended. I think you and I have had some version of this conversation before. Attraction is such an odd thing. Everyone is different. There are things that other people find attractive that would cause me to walk out in a heartbeat- for example, one of DH's former GFs wanted him to order for her in a restaurtant. She didn't want to tell him what she wanted, or even for him to ask her, she wanted to not look at the menu and just to have him order for them both. She found this very "manly" and attractive. Our relationship wouldn't have lasted past the second time he tried that, if he'd tried that with me. Oh, that is a HUGE turn off for me as well. I can order for myself thank you very much!
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Oct 3, 2012 14:49:10 GMT -5
My bf didn't say a word during this conversation. We broke up that night... ------------- Little wonder.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2012 14:50:18 GMT -5
steve here is the site the picture is from. www.humansofnewyork.com/ There is a picture of a little girl in a spiderman mask further down the page. The funny thing is I think the boy still looks like a boy and the girl still looks like a girl. The costumes aren't really effecting that. Besides that I really like the site.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Oct 3, 2012 14:52:37 GMT -5
GEL: First- NO WORRIES. It didn't even occur to me to be offended. I think you and I have had some version of this conversation before. Attraction is such an odd thing. Everyone is different. There are things that other people find attractive that would cause me to walk out in a heartbeat- for example, one of DH's former GFs wanted him to order for her in a restaurtant. She didn't want to tell him what she wanted, or even for him to ask her, she wanted to not look at the menu and just to have him order for them both. She found this very "manly" and attractive. Our relationship wouldn't have lasted past the second time he tried that, if he'd tried that with me. Exactly! I like a man to order for me but only after I tell him what I want. I like him ordering because I am very shy. I'm not good with talking to people I don't know. It has nothing to do with the boy/girl thing. It has to do with my weirdness! And? I think a guy walking around in nothing but a cowboy hat is sexy as all hell. I would guess some of you don't.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Oct 3, 2012 14:52:42 GMT -5
Steve - I agree it is different. I just basically just had a story to tell
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Oct 3, 2012 14:54:18 GMT -5
"And? I think a guy walking around in nothing but a cowboy hat is sexy as all hell. I would guess some of you don't." I wouldn't kick Tatum Channing out of the bed for wearing nothing but a cowboy hat
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 3, 2012 14:55:10 GMT -5
I think a guy walking around in nothing but a cowboy hat is sexy as all hell. I would guess some of you don't
Depends on the guy. Some of the cowboys in for the rodeo, very cute.
DH.. .not so much. He looks like Boss Hog.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Oct 3, 2012 14:55:30 GMT -5
GEL: It is a turn off for me because the only person I knew growing up who wore a cowboy hat all the time was my father. I accept that I am attracted to men who share personality traits with my father, but when I think of a man in a cowboy hat, I think of my dad- so there MUST be clothes.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Oct 3, 2012 14:55:45 GMT -5
"DH.. .not so much. He looks like Boss Hog"
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Oct 3, 2012 14:56:18 GMT -5
I have never said you or any other woman other then my two daughters ( and another girl who lived at my house with them) should wear anything other then what they want to wear. I said the little boy should have been dressed like a boy not a girl unless it was important to him to be dressed like a girl. Not that I in anyway think that a 3 year old boy wearing fairy wings means that he is gay or trans. However, referencing the bolded section: how do you propose that you would even know if it WAS important to your son to dress as a girl if the first time he asks you tell him no? Kids are smart and internalize far more than we can imagine (as I know from my extensive 3 1/2 years of parenting 1 child). My dh didn't sit down and talk to his parents about how he didn't feel comfortable in his body, with long hair, in dresses (he fought about the dresses but thats a bit different). He knew what his parents expected, and internalized a feeling that there was something very wrong with him since he knew he couldn't meet their expectations. His parents weren't bad people, but they knew how girls "should" dress, and weren't able to see beyond that.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Oct 3, 2012 14:57:26 GMT -5
[/b] It is a turn off for me because the only person I knew growing up who wore a cowboy hat all the time was my father. I accept that I am attracted to men who share personality traits with my father, but when I think of a man in a cowboy hat, I think of my dad- so there MUST be clothes.[/quote] Oh dear! I can see how that would put you off.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Oct 3, 2012 15:01:31 GMT -5
Speedos are horrible things that should be banned.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Oct 3, 2012 15:05:20 GMT -5
Steve: That GF had a messed up life in many ways (I'd actually known her longer than DH did), but in her mind, that was actually traditional gender roles. She was the woman, he was the man. It was his job to take care of her and cherish her and ordering for her at restaurants was part of that. It was very much how she was raised. To me, respecting my opinion and allowing me to make my own choices makes me feel much more "cherished" than doing something for me. I'm not saying DH could never order for me in a restaurant, or that I would never order for him- we've both done it when the other was in the restroom or busy with something else. But usually its at a place we've eaten many times before and we know what the other is going to get. In many cases, DH will make his order and leave something out (like asking for mustard for his fries, or no onions on his burger) and I have to remind him. I do think there's a difference when it comes to long term relationships (like parents have with their kids) than in dating. By the time we were engaged DH and I probably could have ordered for each other without issue, but when we first started dating- it would not have flown. It's probably for the best that for our first few dates, he cooked for me.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Oct 3, 2012 15:11:06 GMT -5
I can see both sides of the issue.
On one hand, society has certain expectations on how people are suppposed to dress and act. Yes, I agree it's great to think about how open minded everyone should be, and as long as it doesn't affect you then anything goes. But the reaility is society expects us to conform, at least somewhat. If you stay too far from what society expects you to conform, people are going to think you're werid and treat you differently because of it. And it's usually not the way you'll want to be treated. Dressing up for halloween is one thing, but a boy dressing up as a princess at other times is outside of what's normal. Imagine if he went to a job interview like with purple wings? Part of a parent's job to prepare them for the "real world" and the "real world" doesn't take kindly to straying too far from the norm.
On the other hand, I agree with Darkhonor's assessment. I'm not sure I'd constitute purple wings as a princess costume. He could be a dragon, or a fairy, or dragonfly, or a butterfly, or whatever. Spyro the dragon is male and also a purple dragon. Since it is halloween, and dressing up is part of the fun, I think everyone should relax and let the kid wear purple wings. The kid is young enough. The kid probably won't turn out gay or transgenered because he wears purple wings when he's three.
Basically, I think for haloween it's fine. I'd be a little more concerned if the kid wanted to dress like that all the time. Not because I think he'd turn out gay or anything, but because society doesn't tolerate straying too far from the norm, and kids especially can be very cruel.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Oct 3, 2012 15:13:56 GMT -5
Ordering for a wife or GF would seem werid to me. I mean, it's one thing if they're in the bathroom and you know what they want, but as a matter of course, I don't see how it can make someone feel cherished. If someone just ordered for me, I'd feel like they were an ass.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Oct 3, 2012 15:17:27 GMT -5
I never wore dresses as a child. I was a tom-boy, and hated them. When I grew up, I wanted to start wearing skirts to work occasionally. It was such a difficult transition. I practiced at home for weeks! Finally, I had gained the necessary dress wearing skills... Oh wait, that's not what happened. I just bought some skirts and started wearing them.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Oct 3, 2012 15:28:50 GMT -5
When I was about 25 I attended church with my then bf (I am not religious but he was). We went to the minister's house for lunch after the service and some how the conversation turned to cooking and I expressed that I don't cook. The minister told me that I had better learn to cook if I ever wanted to get married because my husband would expect me to perform "wifely duties" and cooking was one of them. I replied by stating I might not want to get married. He then proceeded to tell me that I wasn't a "real woman" and that the church offered some gender role classes that I might want to take My bf didn't say a word during this conversation. We broke up that night... Ouch. Was this a Catholic church or some other denomination? If it was a Catholic church, the minister/priest had himself absorbed the many wifely duties as priests cannot marry.
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