Deleted
Joined: Apr 29, 2024 1:05:27 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2012 13:31:48 GMT -5
When my son was little he had cabbage patch dolls. I also dressed him up as a Telatubbie (not sure how you spell it) apparently I dressed him up as the gay one...my son didn't turn out gay. He also used to like to put on my heels and clomp around the house. He played barbies with his sister, play cooked with her...nope didn't turn out gay.
|
|
Sum Dum Gai
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 15:39:24 GMT -5
Posts: 19,892
|
Post by Sum Dum Gai on Oct 3, 2012 13:32:03 GMT -5
You're doing it wrong. We're all staring at your tits or ass. We may or may not even notice that you have feet, but we sure as hell don't pay attention to what you put on them.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,242
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 3, 2012 13:34:07 GMT -5
Heels make your ass stick out. I taught one of my guy friends how to walk in heels. He was cross dressing for Halloween. I told him if he was going to do it the least he could do is walk properly in the shoes.
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Oct 3, 2012 13:38:26 GMT -5
I have no issues with Unisex. He's purty!
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Oct 3, 2012 13:40:07 GMT -5
You're doing it wrong. We're all staring at your tits or ass. We may or may not even notice that you have feet, but we sure as hell don't pay attention to what you put on them. Silly boy! Heels change your posture to emphasize your tits and ass.
|
|
Green Eyed Lady
Senior Associate
Look inna eye! Always look inna eye!
Joined: Jan 23, 2012 11:23:55 GMT -5
Posts: 19,629
|
Post by Green Eyed Lady on Oct 3, 2012 13:41:31 GMT -5
I agree but I bet if you polled the women on this board - a good majority will tell you they wear them. I wear them on occasion. And I have absolutely no good reason why.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 29, 2024 1:05:27 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2012 13:42:53 GMT -5
Now i'm picturing milee as Lisbeth Salander...
|
|
Sum Dum Gai
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 15:39:24 GMT -5
Posts: 19,892
|
Post by Sum Dum Gai on Oct 3, 2012 13:43:18 GMT -5
On the west coast, just wedding and funerals. CEOs go to Wall Street IPO meetings in hoodies around here. Business casual means jeans and t-shirts. I don't even want to know what people would show up wearing if you just said casual. There's a pretty good chance you'd see exposed genitals.
Lawyers are like the last group still rocking coats and ties.
|
|
movingforward
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 15, 2011 12:48:31 GMT -5
Posts: 8,358
|
Post by movingforward on Oct 3, 2012 13:43:29 GMT -5
Now i'm picturing milee as Lisbeth Salander... Me too!
|
|
Sum Dum Gai
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 15:39:24 GMT -5
Posts: 19,892
|
Post by Sum Dum Gai on Oct 3, 2012 13:44:41 GMT -5
Or you could just stand up straight, and stop screwing up your feet. Unless you're short. Then I totally get it.
|
|
Opti
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 10:45:38 GMT -5
Posts: 39,704
Location: New Jersey
Mini-Profile Name Color: c28523
Mini-Profile Text Color: 990033
|
Post by Opti on Oct 3, 2012 13:46:21 GMT -5
You're doing it wrong. We're all staring at your tits or ass. We may or may not even notice that you have feet, but we sure as hell don't pay attention to what you put on them. Silly boy! Heels change your posture to emphasize your tits and ass. IMO they put you badly off balance so I'm not a fan. Some women do look better in them than others. I don't need anymore emphasis on my chest and ass.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 29, 2024 1:05:27 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2012 13:46:33 GMT -5
Financial advisors too... although the first time they came to the house they wore suits, but the second time it was just polo shirtss... must have assessed the house dress code and didn't want to be too out of place ?
|
|
movingforward
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 15, 2011 12:48:31 GMT -5
Posts: 8,358
|
Post by movingforward on Oct 3, 2012 13:46:34 GMT -5
I rarely wear heels. I prefer those cute sparkly flat sandals and here in TX I can wear them about 9 months out of the year.
|
|
shanendoah
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 19:44:48 GMT -5
Posts: 10,096
Mini-Profile Name Color: 0c3563
|
Post by shanendoah on Oct 3, 2012 13:46:52 GMT -5
IF the mother forced the pair of wings onto the boy- that's an issue- but it has nothing to do with gender roles. It has to do with forcing something like a Halloween costume on a child. I mean, if you're going to be that controlling, I see an issue. For the same reason, I see an issue with telling girls- I'll only buy you new clothes if you promise to wear a dress once a week. I find that incredibly controlling. Steve I have no doubt that your daughters grew up to be wonderful, competent people. But I would argue that that happened DESPITE your insistence they wear a dress once a week, not because of it. However, it almost certainly had a lot to do with your OTHER parenting skills- like wanting your daughters to grow up to be wonderful, competent people. Wardrobe really has no effect on the matter. I know as many lesbians who love to dress up and look girly as I do the "butch" lesbians. Actually, no, I know more girly lesbians than I do butch lesbians. The clothes they choose to wear have absolutely no effect on whether they are upstanding, wonderful, competent people. And they certainly didn't have an effect on their sexual preferences.
At one time, when DH and I were dating, he raided my closet and wore one of my frilly baby doll dresses to poetry night (in the middle of summer). He did it because it seemed like fun and cooler than most anything in his closet (though he did wear shorts under it). He's not gay, nor did wearing that dress make him a "bad" man, or at least, make him not be a "good man". He cooks. He will be the primary caregiver when we have a child. I am the primary (and currently sole) earner. This doesn't make him less of a man or me less of a woman. It doesn't make him a "bad" man because he doesn't support me financially. It doesn't make me a "bad" woman because I don't spend my day cooking and cleaning. And no, I do not know, nor have I ever, had the desire to be a man. I am attracted to men. I am turned off by incompetence in pretty much anyone. I spend more time wearing slacks than dresses because they are more practical. But I still like to wear a dress or skirt every once in a while- you know, when I choose to, not when somebody tells me I'm supposed to. My husband is a "good man" in every single way that matters- he treats me and everyone with respect, he's honest, he's hardworking (and yes, men can be hardworking even if they don't have a wage earning job), he does whatever he needs to to support our family, stands up for what he believes and lives his convictions. If he wanted to wear a dress every day- I wouldn't care. And trust me, no one would call him "effeminate" even if he did wear a dress every day.
People use wardrobe to help them express who they are, or sometimes who they want to be- there's a reason some suits are referred to as "power suits". There are times that we choose our clothes as a kind of armor, to protect ourselves and project the image we want others to see, even if we don't feel that way inside. Other times, we use wardrobe to experiment, to explore other sides of ourselves. And that's why dressing up for Halloween is so important for kids, and also why adults still love to do it. By wearing something outside of the norm, we free ourselves to express other sides of our personalities, ones that may often be kept in check. But at the same time, what we wear does not define us. Dressing up in a costume does not make me a different person, does not change who I am at my core. Any side of myself I express while wearing a costume is still a side that was already in me, even if I don't normally let it show.
Letting a 3 year old wear wings is not going to make him gay. It's not going to make him transgendered. It's not even going to make him be a cross dresser. And it doesn't mean that he won't grow up to be a "good man" or a wonderful, competent person. (And by the way, a person who is gay, transgendered or a cross dresser can be all those things, too. They aren't exlcusive to "straights".)The same would be true if he were actually in full princess regalia. And not only won't letting him wear wings MAKE him anything (other than a little boy wearing wings), at age THREE, it's not even a good indicator of who (or "what") he will grow up to be. If at age 12, he wants to dress as a princess, you've got an indicator and the family needs to deal with that. At 3, you've got a kid playing dress up.
|
|
Opti
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 10:45:38 GMT -5
Posts: 39,704
Location: New Jersey
Mini-Profile Name Color: c28523
Mini-Profile Text Color: 990033
|
Post by Opti on Oct 3, 2012 13:49:33 GMT -5
On the west coast, just wedding and funerals. CEOs go to Wall Street IPO meetings in hoodies around here. Business casual means jeans and t-shirts. I don't even want to know what people would show up wearing if you just said casual. There's a pretty good chance you'd see exposed genitals. Lawyers are like the last group still rocking coats and ties. I think a lot of it depends on where you live and what you do. If women go into nursing they are wearing scrubs while working unless they get promoted high enough to wear nice office clothes. Also, in the movie Descendants it had a nice line about ignoring dress to figure out who the power players are in Hawaii. Seemed flip flops were daily wear everywhere.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,242
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 3, 2012 13:50:04 GMT -5
see and saw dresses as a part of fitting in there. I would think you have your sons wear a tie and jacket at certain events, maybe not I don't know. It is part of the uniform.
That's not the same thing as saying women fit in better if they wear dresses/skirts.
You wear whaetver your corporate culture tells you to wear, yes and you should.
I am supposed to wear long pants and closed toed shoes. I'd look totally out of place and be dressed inappropriate if I showed up wearing a skirt.
Anywhere else I've never once had an issue because of what I chose to wear as long as it was appropriate for the event.
Skirt/pants it didn't matter.
|
|
milee
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
Posts: 12,344
|
Post by milee on Oct 3, 2012 13:50:14 GMT -5
Agree - no need to be unisex. But let's stop judging others based on what they're wearing. Or expect them to wear certain things. That would be a good start. Society expects them to wear certain things. I wanted my girls to fit in a certain social structure. I see and saw dresses as a part of fitting in there. But that's my point. And I'm probably not making it well, but the societal expectations that have women in dresses are the same expectations that keep them out of many opportunities as well. If we support stereotypes as absolute, then we accept the limitations associated with the stereotype. I would have been a fantastic Master of the Universe. I am only a so-so housekeeper. Society's expectations steer me into one role (for which I'm spectacularly less than mediocre) and worked hard to keep me out of a role in which I would have totally Kicked Ass. Letting a kid wear a certain Halloween costume isn't going to change that, but maybe if we all start examining how we view genders and gender roles it's a step in the right direction. When I was a little girl, I was sad that there was no way I'd be the first female President. It just seemed so obvious that some other woman would be President long before I was even an adult - why wouldn't there be a woman? Now that I'm older, I'm not sure I'll see a female President before I die. Gender roles and reality...
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 29, 2024 1:05:27 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2012 13:50:25 GMT -5
Gues what... if men go into nursing they are wearing scrubs too...
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,242
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 3, 2012 13:51:51 GMT -5
At one time, when DH and I were dating, he raided my closet and wore one of my frilly baby doll dresses to poetry night (in the middle of summer).
Please tell me you have a picture!
|
|
Green Eyed Lady
Senior Associate
Look inna eye! Always look inna eye!
Joined: Jan 23, 2012 11:23:55 GMT -5
Posts: 19,629
|
Post by Green Eyed Lady on Oct 3, 2012 13:52:11 GMT -5
Ok. Seriously and honestly. How many women here would not mind if their husbands/fiances/boyfriends/significant others raided their closet and wore a dress out in public? I'd be out of that relationship faster than he could get out of my dress. Flame away. I deserve it for not just thinking it and shutting up.
|
|
kgb18
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 8:15:23 GMT -5
Posts: 4,904
|
Post by kgb18 on Oct 3, 2012 13:52:42 GMT -5
I initially read that as "white lace panties." I was wondering what kind of a graduation you had! That, a thousand times over! I love heels. I love shoes. My main rule is that if I can't walk like a normal person in them, I don't buy them. DH and I know this girl who wears these ridiculously high heels that she cannot walk in. She teeters around like she's going to fall at any second. It's crazy. Now whenever we see a woman wobbling in heels, I say, "Look, she's doing the Brandy Teeter."
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,242
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 3, 2012 13:56:54 GMT -5
How many women here would not mind if their husbands/fiances/boyfriends/significant others raided their closet and wore a dress out in public
Do I get to take photos?
I'd be bothered because he's three sizes bigger than me, he'd ruin my dress!
If it is part of who he is then I would find a way to work thru it because he's still my DH even if he is choosing to wear a dress.
Transgendered we probably would not work out becuase I am not into women. He'd still be my DH personality wise but I don't think I'd be able to make the switch physically.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 29, 2024 1:05:27 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2012 13:57:57 GMT -5
I can't imagine leaving my husband over an outfit choice... I mean, some of the things that man chooses to wear are questionable , but hey, it doesn't really negate his sterling qualities as husband, father, friend...
I suppose if there were larger implications of wearing the dress we'd have to talk about those, but as a halloween costume? As a lark? Because it was comfortable and he felt comfortable in it? ...
He's been known to hold my purse for me... and never minded carrying a diaper bag... where is this 'line'
|
|
movingforward
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 15, 2011 12:48:31 GMT -5
Posts: 8,358
|
Post by movingforward on Oct 3, 2012 14:03:50 GMT -5
I once dated a guy that used to hold my purse for me while I tried on clothes in the dressing room. He actually didn't just hold it - he would hang it on his shoulder and walk around the store with it. I honestly think he did it just to see how people would react. He also didn't seem to have a problem picking up feminine products for me at the grocery store. He was secure with himself and seemed to be a "real" man to me.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 29, 2024 1:05:27 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2012 14:05:59 GMT -5
Ok. Seriously and honestly. How many women here would not mind if their husbands/fiances/boyfriends/significant others raided their closet and wore a dress out in public? I'd be out of that relationship faster than he could get out of my dress. Flame away. I deserve it for not just thinking it and shutting up. Or a speedo. He can wear wings but no speedos!
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,242
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 3, 2012 14:06:40 GMT -5
DH has no problem picking up feminine products for me, but he gets overwhelmed once he gets there. I don't blame him. Last time I had to shop for them it took me forever to find what I wanted. There are too many freaking choices!
|
|
movingforward
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 15, 2011 12:48:31 GMT -5
Posts: 8,358
|
Post by movingforward on Oct 3, 2012 14:08:42 GMT -5
Ok. Seriously and honestly. How many women here would not mind if their husbands/fiances/boyfriends/significant others raided their closet and wore a dress out in public? I'd be out of that relationship faster than he could get out of my dress. Flame away. I deserve it for not just thinking it and shutting up. Or a speedo. He can wear wings but no speedos! Yes, please no speedos. Though I have decided that really the only men that wear them are overweight old dudes.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Oct 3, 2012 14:09:06 GMT -5
Ok. Seriously and honestly. How many women here would not mind if their husbands/fiances/boyfriends/significant others raided their closet and wore a dress out in public? I'd be out of that relationship faster than he could get out of my dress. Flame away. I deserve it for not just thinking it and shutting up. LOL! No flames, GEL. However, being married to the guy I was married to for all those years, I'd have been leaving him every other week if I'd left him over things like that. When it came to doing the unexpected, the incredible, and the patently insane, he was right up there with the champions! It's one of the reasons I adored him.
|
|
shanendoah
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 19:44:48 GMT -5
Posts: 10,096
Mini-Profile Name Color: 0c3563
|
Post by shanendoah on Oct 3, 2012 14:10:12 GMT -5
DQ: That's actually the only part I'm mad about. He did it while I was out of town. I heard about it from friends and from everyone at poetry night when I came back- but I didn't get to see it, nor did anyone have a picture. (Please note, this was in 2000- when not everyone even had a cell phone, let alone a cell phone with a camera.) And I mean it had to have been fabulous- my DH has long curly brown hair with a full beard and mustache and some of the hairiest legs ever. It had to have been spectacular.
GEL: I accept that for some people, that might be a deal breaker. But for me it's not- because what my DH wears has nothing to do with who he is as a person and it's that person I married.
Steve: I agree with Milee. But here's what I want to make very clear- none of us is calling you a bad parent. Most of us believe you were a very good parent. And actually, I would say that sitting down with your daughter and listening to her when she was upset DID have a major effect on who she turned out to be because there you were demonstrating good parenting and simply being a good person- sitting and listening to her troubles wasn't something that only women did- it was part of being a good father, too. It has been very hard for my father (who is a fabulous father to whom I am very close) to understand when I talk about how my parents still raised my brother and I in a gender stereotype manner. His response is that he never told me I couldn't do something because I was a girl, and that he took me shooting, and my brother helped in the kitchen, etc. But the truth is, despite the fact that I loved going shooting with him, I was never given a gun (my brother got a new one just about every year for 5 years or so). Despite my brother loving to help in the kitchen, no one ever gave him an easy bake oven or child sized blender. It's not an easy issue to discuss- but I do discuss it with my father because I have two nieces, and hope to have a child of my own soon. My father was a great father and is an amazing grandfather, but that doesn't mean that he should never have to look at the way society treats men and women differently. It doesn't mean he can't still learn and grow and find even more ways to support his grandchildren. And I honestly believe it had an effect. My oldest niece loved basketball- and "Pa" bought her her very first basketball of her own. Again, we're not saying you did anything wrong. We're just asking that you accept that you can still learn and help your granddaughters grow up with even more freedom to be who they are than their mothers had.
|
|
shanendoah
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 19:44:48 GMT -5
Posts: 10,096
Mini-Profile Name Color: 0c3563
|
Post by shanendoah on Oct 3, 2012 14:17:30 GMT -5
Steve: DH and I are in the process of adopting- at some point, there will be a child, but no idea when. And yes, we will, in many ways, rasie our child with some ideas of how people should behave, and that includes gender stereotypes that we may not even be aware we hold. My goal is to try and be aware when I am doing those things and to ask myself why. And if my child ever asks me why, to be able to answer. My goal is also to be able to learn and to grow and to change. Holding gender stereotypes does not make someone a bad person or a bad parent. But not being willing to explore those stereotypes, to question and challenge them, or to support your children or grandchildren who want to question or challenge them, that's what causes problems. No one is asking you to not be you. No one is saying you didn't do a great job with your daughters. We're just asking you to look at the ideas you hold and ask yourself- do these ideas really lead to the best possible world for my granddaughters?
|
|