Heaven, Purgatory, and Hell

[Deleted]

So, you do believe in God or a God "energy"? From where did this "energy" arise?

As for children, children are a "blessing" from God. And, as we humans are created in the Image of God, so we have the responsibility to act in a moral and loving manner. I did not put the "soul" into my child, only God did that.

[femmefatale]

Sept 16, 2012 8:55:22 GMT -5 @shooby said:

So, you do believe in God or a God "energy"? From where did this "energy" arise?

As for children, children are a "blessing" from God. And, as we humans are created in the Image of God, so we have the responsibility to act in a moral and loving manner. I did not put the "soul" into my child, only God did that.

I agree, Shoobz. I'm getting confused about what God "energy" is.

[Deleted]

Good morning femme! It all goes back to the Poof!

[mrsdutt]

ROSE said: God cannot be a parent figure in my humble opinion.

What would be your reasoning on this? It's my understanding God is referred to as the 'The Father". If He indeed is our creator, then wouldn't he be a father figure?

[mrsdutt]

Sept 16, 2012 9:02:18 GMT -5 @femmefatale said:

Sept 16, 2012 8:55:22 GMT -5 @shooby said:

So, you do believe in God or a God "energy"? From where did this "energy" arise?

As for children, children are a "blessing" from God. And, as we humans are created in the Image of God, so we have the responsibility to act in a moral and loving manner. I did not put the "soul" into my child, only God did that.

I agree, Shoobz. I'm getting confused about what God "energy" is.

[Reckless Roselia]

Sept 16, 2012 8:18:35 GMT -5 @shooby said:

Sept 16, 2012 8:14:56 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

How can we not believe when our souls remember and cry for it.

Do plants have a soul? Does water have a soul? Do the sun moon and stars have a soul? What is a soul?

Are you not a believer of souls, Shooby? You'll be the first specimen that believes in the God of Jesus yet not a Soul.

[femmefatale]

Sept 16, 2012 9:04:39 GMT -5 @shooby said:

Good morning femme! It all goes back to the Poof!

True. I think it does, Shoobz. I'm not really down with the poof, but I guess everyone has their own ideas. ;D

[Deleted]

I believe in souls in the traditional, orthodox sense and definition. But, i AM one of God's creatures so imagine that!

[femmefatale]

It's my understanding God is referred to as the 'The Father". If He indeed is our creator, then wouldn't he be a father figure?

Your understanding is quite on point. And yes, that would make him the "ultimate" Father and creator.

[Deleted]

Sept 16, 2012 9:14:15 GMT -5 @femmefatale said:

Sept 16, 2012 9:04:39 GMT -5 @shooby said:

Good morning femme! It all goes back to the Poof!

True. I think it does, Shoobz. I'm not really down with the poof, but I guess everyone has their own ideas. ;D

[Deleted]

Sept 16, 2012 9:15:44 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Sept 16, 2012 8:17:24 GMT -5 @shooby said:

The bulb did not create itself. It is kind of like saying the light bulb created your home. To believe that God created everything and doesn't care and is a walk away parent seems an ever less logical belief in my opinion. It seems strange that a creator would make such an intricate and beautiful creation and then just toss it aside. And, if God is capable of that, then he is capable of "paying attention" to whether we drink a caramel macchioto or a vanillla latte.

I didn't mean to indicate that the bulb created itself. I don't know what created God. I don't believe that the God energy is a walk away parent. It is always with us, showing us how to get home and back to it. It's like your cells are always with you, working for you, for your existence.
I really believe that if we want to remember and understand the big picture, all we need to do is look at the smaller pictures around us.

Nothing can or could have "created" God. God and God alone is eternal and can ONLY be God if He alone stands above and outside of all that IS as the All in All.

[Deleted]

Sept 16, 2012 9:16:33 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Sept 16, 2012 9:15:20 GMT -5 @shooby said:

I believe in souls in the traditional, orthodox sense and definition. But, i AM one of God's creatures so imagine that!

So, not a part of God, but rather one of his creatures?

The "image" of God. Not a "part" of God. An indwelling of God, not a part of the Godhood. Try as i might, i have tried to exert my "God like" powers over the universe and so far it hasn't worked!

[Deleted]

Sept 16, 2012 9:15:44 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Sept 16, 2012 8:17:24 GMT -5 @shooby said:

The bulb did not create itself. It is kind of like saying the light bulb created your home. To believe that God created everything and doesn't care and is a walk away parent seems an ever less logical belief in my opinion. It seems strange that a creator would make such an intricate and beautiful creation and then just toss it aside. And, if God is capable of that, then he is capable of "paying attention" to whether we drink a caramel macchioto or a vanillla latte.

I didn't mean to indicate that the bulb created itself. I don't know what created God. I don't believe that the God energy is a walk away parent. It is always with us, showing us how to get home and back to it. It's like your cells are always with you, working for you, for your existence.
I really believe that if we want to remember and understand the big picture, all we need to do is look at the smaller pictures around us.

As for smaller pictures, i absolutely agree. We can see the "Hand" of God and God's handiwork all around us the marvelous, amazing, awesome Creator.

[Reckless Roselia]

Sept 16, 2012 9:05:16 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

ROSE said: God cannot be a parent figure in my humble opinion.

What would be your reasoning on this? It's my understanding God is referred to as the 'The Father". If He indeed is our creator, then wouldn't he be a father figure?

Hey Idin,

I understand the term 'Father' in the Bible is a metaphorical term rather than a literal one. If Jesus has a Father and Mother then does that mean God has a wife? Is Mary His wife? That's another reason why religion and faith can make me uncomfortable yet I do possess tiny specks of faith. It's because with scripture comes ambiguity.

Another thing is a Creator doesn't become a Father literally. I create a new software package, does that make me a Mother of Software? No. Michael Faraday is called The Father of Electricity but did he invent electricity? No. You'd say God did. The term 'Father' I believe is used for respect.

Some may say if God is a Father then which Father kills their children?

I have sent you a pm.

[Deleted]

Fathers "tell us what to do" to what end? To in the end, teach us, nurture us and guide us in the right direction. A souless energy has no direction. Has no moral imperative or values of good or evil. There would be nothing to remember because there is no point to remembrance.

[Deleted]

Sept 16, 2012 9:24:54 GMT -5 Reckless Roselia said:

Sept 16, 2012 9:05:16 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

ROSE said: God cannot be a parent figure in my humble opinion.

What would be your reasoning on this? It's my understanding God is referred to as the 'The Father". If He indeed is our creator, then wouldn't he be a father figure?

Hey Idin,

I understand the term 'Father' in the Bible is a metaphorical term rather than a literal one. If Jesus has a Father and Mother then does that mean God has a wife? Is Mary His wife? That's another reason why religion and faith can make me uncomfortable yet I do possess tiny specks of faith. It's because with scripture comes ambiguity.

Another thing is a Creator doesn't become a Father literally. I create a new software package, does that make me a Mother of Software? No. Michael Faraday is called The Father of Electricity but did he invent electicity? No. You'd say God did. The term 'Father' I believe is used for respect.

Some may say if God is a Father then which Father kills their children?

I have sent you a pm.

There is no "ambiguity" to the concept of God as Father, Jesus as the Incarnate Son of God as fully God and fully Man and as Mary the human Mother of the Son of God. I see no ambiguity in that at all.

[Deleted]

As for the Creator, we do call the Creators the "father of ...." fill in the blank. The "father" of software, the "father of" whatever it is. A Creator is a Father in the sense we understand Fathers in that they can then also nuture, guide, direct and care. Also the term "animal husbandry" which is a sense of a man caring for his flock of animals or whatever as well.

[Deleted]

Yes, sitting by the ocean gives me a feeling of the overwhelming power and awesomeness of God. That yet i am but a tiny infinitesimal speck but the very "hairs on my head" are numbered and counted by God. God is vastly bigger than his creation. He can note and care for and be concerned about and guide and love everything we do with no difficulty whatsoever.

[Reckless Roselia]

Sept 16, 2012 9:26:49 GMT -5 @shooby said:

Sept 16, 2012 9:24:54 GMT -5 Reckless Roselia said:

Hey Idin,

I understand the term 'Father' in the Bible is a metaphorical term rather than a literal one. If Jesus has a Father and Mother then does that mean God has a wife? Is Mary His wife? That's another reason why religion and faith can make me uncomfortable yet I do possess tiny specks of faith. It's because with scripture comes ambiguity.

Another thing is a Creator doesn't become a Father literally. I create a new software package, does that make me a Mother of Software? No. Michael Faraday is called The Father of Electricity but did he invent electricity? No. You'd say God did. The term 'Father' I believe is used for respect.

Some may say if God is a Father then which Father kills their children?

I have sent you a pm.

There is no "ambiguity" to the concept of God as Father, Jesus as the Incarnate Son of God as fully God and fully Man and as Mary the human Mother of the Son of God. I see no ambiguity in that at all.

You may be surprised but there is ambiguity.

How many wives does the Lord have? Can you answer this question? How many daughters does He have and sons? Does God have a family tree?

No ambiguity in the Doctrine of Trinity? Oh puhleez.

[Deleted]

Yes. And, if you do ascribe to the Biblical understand as i do, we talk about going "home" to our Lord.

[mrsdutt]

ROSE said: But God can be anything right? Do we know how He looks like or how he feels or talk? He may just be light energy.


Everything in nature was created by God. (Give Him any name you wish) So yes, I would agree that all good things represent Him. He is the master scientist in my opinion.

But, I posted somewhere that my son visited God outside the gates of heaven and DS described God to us. He was - at 4 years old - perplexed about God's blue dress. In this world men do not wear dresses. He was a bit taken back. So, I'm thinking (not an absolute) if we were created in His image, then we do know what he looks like. This is not to say He can't take on any image that a person can relate to.

Just to let you know DS said he has white hair and a long beard. Maybe He's Jewish??

As an aside, I'm thinking He feels anything we are able to feel - because this is part of being made in His image. But His patience is so much greater than ours could ever be.

[Deleted]

Just to let you know DS said he has white hair and a long beard. Maybe He's Jewish??
Um, that would be Santa Claus!

[Deleted]

The clay is not the Potter. We are the clay, he is the Potter. A creation of His hands but we are NOT God.

[Deleted]

It is a part of my physical body. But, does my foot control my brain? Does my foot direct my path and heart? Is my foot the soul? Or, will my foot die and then i continue to exist? Is your child, YOU? Yes, your child has a resemblance of you and a biology of you, but your child is not YOU. You are a separate being unto yourself. God is above, beyond and outside of His creation. But, just like children the hand of God, the nature of God, the evidence of God's handiwork is all around us.

[Reckless Roselia]

Shooby, is this you kicking arse? ;D

[Deleted]

Not at all Roselia. I can discuss theology all day long.

[mrsdutt]

LONE said: I see a father figure as one that stands over us and tells us what to do

I see a father as one who guides us to success.

[Deleted]

Sept 16, 2012 8:11:58 GMT -5 @shooby said:

If Jeffery Dahmer and Mother Theresa are all the same then you have no moral imperatives to live by. Nor, can you call on others to live any other way. You can no more condemn violence than you can praise goodness.

Yes, Shooby, I think this will be the 2nd or 3rd time you have made this point, in which case it will be the 2nd or 3rd time that I agree with it. Indeed, that's correct.

If it is all for naught, we are just floating blobs hen there is absolutely no reason why i should not go next door and take everything by neighbor has, by force, if necessary.

I'm not sure how you've gone from a suggestion that there is no right & wrong outwith human perception, to a conclusion that it is all for naught and that we are just floating blobs. This is a leap I'm quite unprepared to take with you.

To just say we exist "just because" is pretty odd. From WHERE did the material building blocks come from to create the "right conditions" for our existence. You have to start from somewhere and all roads can only lead back to a predeceding God.

Well, 'odd' is a value-based judgement and so doesn't really mean anything outside of your own value system. It is odd to me that snakes swallow their food whole, that PG Tips started producing pyramid-shaped respected Tea Party members, and that clouds are called 'clouds'… none of which remark upon the veracity of the fact they each pertain to.

The problem with insisting that it had to come from somewhere is that you are setting yourself up for an infinite series of insisting such. I.e. Wherever it came from, surely that thing must also have come from somewhere… and so on.

Sept 16, 2012 8:14:55 GMT -5 @shooby said:

Sept 16, 2012 8:09:05 GMT -5 @devianity said:

Yes. Unfortunately, differing ideas over 'God' is one of the obstacles to togetherness.

Not so ISA. Assuming randomness and no God is a very easy leap into absolute and total self centered living where there is nothing to aspired to other than your own personal pleasure and self gratification. So, if no God, i have no fear of punishment other than what man can do to me and also no hope of reward either. I can then just simply take a calculated risk for my highest reward. If i can knock you to the ground and take what you own and get away with it, there is no reason at all why i should simply NOT do so.

I agree with some of this but I'm not sure what it has to do with the comment you've quoted. Differing ideas over what or who 'God' is, is undeniably one of the things that divides humanity.

[Deleted]

I am making the point that if every believes there is no God, that world peace is not going to follow.

[Reckless Roselia]

Sept 16, 2012 10:01:04 GMT -5 @shooby said:

Not at all Roselia. I can discuss theology all day long.

I was once like yourself. I'd let it rip with anyone who disagreed, questioned or insulted my beliefs and faith. Just like Xena, the warrior princess, I found myself to be. Anyway, enjoy this discussion. It's nice seeing you fire up like this.