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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2012 2:53:00 GMT -5
Yes, i did claim that and that is exactly what evolutionists do.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2012 2:57:03 GMT -5
And, that is different from Evolution how? In order to believe in Evolution you are ascribing intelligence to genes instead. You have to assume that genes are able to look ahead and forsee the future and make a value judgement of what will be more advantageous. You want it both ways. There is simply a lot of voodoo in Evolution that you don't want to admit. There is a lot of fuzzy nonsense in Evolution . You're absolutely right. A magic wizard breathed the world and everything in it, into existence. No voodoo or fuzzy nonsense there. Makes perfect sense. For Welts.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 4, 2012 3:23:02 GMT -5
I still say the platypus is elegant. It is ancient, and its elegance predates our understanding. So there!
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 4, 2012 4:06:09 GMT -5
Aww. Don't be dissin' on the platypus. I like 'em. They're cute! Then again, I think sloths are cute. ------------- Of course sloths are cute! How can you look at these faces and not go "Awwwww"?
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 4, 2012 4:08:58 GMT -5
Love 'em! I hope this one is able to agree on where it needs to be when and what's for dinner! ;D
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 4, 2012 7:20:04 GMT -5
"My co-workers enjoy arguing the bad science angle. Apparently neanderthals and other prehistoric men were just people with diseases that caused misshapen heads & bones."
I live in the Bible belt South where there are a lot of people who have developed elaborate ways to explain the fossil record. Once, back when I was still willing to discuss evolution with my co-workers, one of them explained to me how the world used to be encased in a giant ice ball that protected the planet and made it a 'garden of eden' but then about 5000 years ago the ice ball melted and this became the great flood and Noah and his family were the only survivors. Fossils were how God tested our faith. He claimed he had scientific proof of all these theories.
This is when I stopped discussing evolution and the scientific method with other people. As a biologist it's just too frightening to hear these fairy tales being set forth as scientific fact. The really scary part is that, down here, anyway, people that believe this are the ones who are most likely to home school their kids, so they can make sure they get taught the same addled mix of religion and myth.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2012 7:33:24 GMT -5
I never understood why some people who call themselves Christians can believe all the outlandish stories of the bible (Lot's wife turning to salt, Jesus walking on water, Jonah being swollowed by a whale and then escaping alive..etc) but they will then turn around and make fun of other religious beliefs and "fairytales".
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 4, 2012 7:41:04 GMT -5
I never understood why some people who call themselves Christians can believe all the outlandish stories of the bible (Lot's wife turning to salt, Jesus walking on water, Jonah being swollowed by a whale and then escaping alive..etc) but they will then turn around and make fun of other religious beliefs and "fairytales". They will tell you because it was written in the Bible, and the Bible is 100% accurate, 100% infallible, and 100% true. I caused a stink when I mentioned that unicorns were mentioned in the King James version of the Bible. I didn't mean to cause trouble, I just thought it was an interesting thing I heard on talk radio. One of the more devote Christians here yelled at me for suggesting that, insisting that the word unicorn never appeared in any version of the Bible - but it did. Later editions changed this word into "wild ass" or "wild goat." When King James was written, people actually believed in unicorns - so we have a fallible human making a translation mistake. But I wasn't going to argue that point with him - I try very hard now never to discuss religion or politics with my coworkers.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 4, 2012 7:48:28 GMT -5
One of my favorites being if you take the current rate of population growth & calculate backwards, then you end up with Noah's family 4500 years ago.Ow. I hurt myself trying to figure that out. Fossils were how God tested our faith. He claimed he had scientific proof of all these theories. I've heard that one. Nearly made my head explode. I love how science and evolution are supposed to be "challenged" because we cannot just accept that it is true but God forbid you challenge anything that these people say.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2012 8:06:44 GMT -5
I actually agree with Virgil that evolution and intelligent design do not have to be mutually exclusive. We still know ridiculously little about the universe, how it and life started, whether there is other life, etc, etc, etc. Was it all sparked off by some power or being or force? I think it is at least in the realm of possibility.
What I don't think are compatible, though, is the idea that humans started, literally, as described in the Bible and evolution.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2012 8:09:00 GMT -5
This is most rational and courteous discussion of evolution vs creationism I have ever read. I'm amazed! And pleased. ;D Well....except for Shooby being called "ignorant," but we can gloss over that, I guess.That was courteous, ignorant means lacking knowledge which she obviously does in regard to science and evolution. No one called her an idiot for her choice to be ignorant, they just called her on her lack of knowledge.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2012 8:36:59 GMT -5
I actually agree with Virgil that evolution and intelligent design do not have to be mutually exclusive. We still know ridiculously little about the universe, how it and life started, whether there is other life, etc, etc, etc. Was it all sparked off by some power or being or force? I think it is at least in the realm of possibility. What I don't think are compatible, though, is the idea that humans started, literally, as described in the Bible and evolution. There are a lot of wonderful happy accidents that made life on earth possible. Personally, I think puzzling out the mysteries of the universe is one of the more respectful things we can do with our intelligence. If you believe that you were made in God's image, it seems like a disrespectful use of that intellectual gift to sit on your duff and claim "miracle" when the math gets hard. But that's just me. And to your earlier point, I also think that the number of potential sexual partners available to football players relative to accountants is a pretty useful illustration of "survival of the fittest."
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 4, 2012 8:46:49 GMT -5
I also think that the number of potential sexual partners available to football players relative to accountants is a pretty useful illustration of "survival of the fittest."
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2012 8:54:13 GMT -5
I actually agree with Virgil that evolution and intelligent design do not have to be mutually exclusive. We still know ridiculously little about the universe, how it and life started, whether there is other life, etc, etc, etc. Was it all sparked off by some power or being or force? I think it is at least in the realm of possibility. What I don't think are compatible, though, is the idea that humans started, literally, as described in the Bible and evolution. There are a lot of wonderful happy accidents that made life on earth possible. Personally, I think puzzling out the mysteries of the universe is one of the more respectful things we can do with our intelligence. If you believe that you were made in God's image, it seems like a disrespectful use of that intellectual gift to sit on your duff and claim "miracle" when the math gets hard. But that's just me. And to your earlier point, I also think that the number of potential sexual partners available to football players relative to accountants is a pretty useful illustration of "survival of the fittest." But the accountant survives and flourishes. There are more accountants today than there were 1000 years ago. Evolution would never let that happen.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2012 9:04:30 GMT -5
Rukh,
I agree. Taking the Bible literally makes it difficult to believe in both evolution and intelligent design.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Sept 4, 2012 9:08:34 GMT -5
The most successful offspring is a burly guy raised by a nerd. Multiple studies have shown that genetics don't determine IQ, hence why mothers have sex with the quarterback and then marry the nerd.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2012 9:14:01 GMT -5
But the accountant survives and flourishes. There are more accountants today than there were 1000 years ago. Evolution would never let that happen. I don't get the problem? Both big burly guys and intelligent guys were able to pass down their genes successfully. Evolution is not favoring only one kind, but whatever works. Hence the diversity of finches on the island deal that started darwin off. Evolution works because it explains why species change, keeping some traits and losing other. Traits are lost because they are not useful for survival. Back to my example, accountants are not useful for the survival of the human species. Therefore, according to evolution humans should have fewer and fewer accountants, but instead the opposite is true. Evolution fails to explain this. There must be another theory.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Sept 4, 2012 9:18:28 GMT -5
Culture plays a big role in determining surivival too and, for some bizarre reason, our culture requires accountants
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Sept 4, 2012 9:23:17 GMT -5
I've only read the OP's post.
DH believes in creationism. I believe in evolution. We've had discussions on it, with the same guidelines as political discussions - if the other person doesn't engage, the topic gets dropped. And while we don't agree with the other, we respect your right to have that opinion.
I do believe that God created the spark that started the Big Bang, but I tend to think of us/the universe as a lab experiment or series of lab experiments God's having....
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Sept 4, 2012 9:32:15 GMT -5
%^&*$#* There aren't any scientific papers from the Creation/ID side!! I think we should start teaching the Hopi science of creation.. I think it has a giant turtle in it. That'd be about as legitimate as the Christian version. It needs elephants too. Terry Pratchett rules!
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Sept 4, 2012 9:43:18 GMT -5
I often find it intriguing that people will apply one set of 'logic' rules to All Things Religious while applying a second set of logic rules (the one's most of us here are familiar with) to everything else. It's like there's the God Standard for religious stuff and then the Science/Critical Thinking Standard for everything else.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 4, 2012 9:43:45 GMT -5
Î don't know if there is a creator or not. But I do believe the creation of the universe is not as simple as creationism/Intelligent Design would have us believe.
According to scientists, there are approximately 170 billion galaxies in the observable universe. Each one of these galaxies contain anywhere from as many as ten million stars in small galaxies to large galaxies with a hundred trillion stars. The odds are there is intelligent life less/equal/greater than ours out there somewhere.
Do I believe there are some intelligent life forms that look like us out there? Yes I do. Do I believe there are some intelligent life forms that don't look like us out there? Yes, I believe that too. Do I believe our earth has been visited by any of those other life forms? No I don't.
I don't believe any of our earth's religions have the inside scoop who the creator of everything is. I think mankind looks for the easiest of explanations for things we are incapable of understanding with our limited knowledge of the universe.
Science as we know it is still in its infancy.
I also wonder if there multiple universes. There is an outer edge to our solar system. Then there is open space. There is an outer edge to our galaxy. Then there is open space. If there are 170 billion observable galaxies in our universe, why can't there then be edge, open space and then the beginning of another universe and another?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 4, 2012 9:49:06 GMT -5
Tenn do you watch Thru the Wormhole with Morgan Freeman? If you don't you really should. Physicists all around the world are asking those same questions. Physics now goes way beyond Netwon and Einstein, the universe is much more complex than anyone ever thought. I don't hear anyone saying the entire field should be thrown out due to Einstein being proven "wrong".
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Sept 4, 2012 9:55:10 GMT -5
How so? Evolution could certainly produce something as utterly useless as an accountant, and God can certainly be shown to have an odd sense of humor. Look at the platypus. Aww. Don't be dissin' on the platypus. I like 'em. They're cute! Then again, I think sloths are cute. My 2.75 year old lispes platypus. It's adorable. We recently started watching Phineas and Ferb....
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 4, 2012 9:57:29 GMT -5
Tenn do you watch Thru the Wormhole with Morgan Freeman? If you don't you really should. Physicists all around the world are asking those same questions. Physics now goes way beyond Netwon and Einstein, the universe is much more complex than anyone ever thought. I don't hear anyone saying the entire field should be thrown out due to Einstein being proven "wrong". DQ-I haven't watched it. Is it currently on television? I also think our scientific laws which may be applicable to our worlds may not apply to other galaxies and possible universes.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 4, 2012 10:00:02 GMT -5
Yes. It's on the Science channel which is owned by Discovery. If you don't have the Science Channel I am betting you could find it on DVD or online thru Discovery. That show makes me feel dumb when I watch it, those people's brains are working at an entirely different level than mine. I still find hte show fascinating though. There was an episode about other universes and that our laws of physics might not apply there. There is also an entire sub-atomic world that apparently does not play by our current understanding of the rules.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 4, 2012 10:00:52 GMT -5
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 4, 2012 10:02:57 GMT -5
Thanks DQ. I will look into it.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Sept 4, 2012 10:03:22 GMT -5
Did this thread spawn another one? Besides possibly the useless appendages one? Someone referred another thread and i'm trying to find it, while working...
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Sept 4, 2012 10:08:54 GMT -5
The most successful offspring is a burly guy raised by a nerd. Multiple studies have shown that genetics don't determine IQ, hence why mothers have sex with the quarterback and then marry the nerd. I find that interesting. I remember freakonomics did a podcast on how much parents matter. If I remember correctly they claimed that a kid's education level & salary is more nature not nuture. An adopted kid is more likely to have a salary & education level related to their birth parents not their adopted parents. Seems IQ would play into that somehow. I don't remember everything they said, but for the most part parents don't matter much at all. I think the one thing where nuture mattered over nature was whether you were raised by smokers, if so you are more likely to smoke.
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