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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2012 18:37:25 GMT -5
If you don't mind me asking, what denomination are you cranberry? Thanks for sharing if you choose to do so... Do you also belive it is inerrant? Is that the same thing, to believe it literally and inerrantly?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2012 18:39:48 GMT -5
My mother is Catholic, converted later in life. I am uncomfortable asking her questions about it though. I feel like she would think i was challenging her if i asked questions.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Sept 3, 2012 18:49:46 GMT -5
My mother is Catholic, converted later in life. I am uncomfortable asking her questions about it though. I feel like she would think i was challenging her if i asked questions. Someone who is secure in their faith shouldn't mind questions.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2012 18:56:08 GMT -5
I assumed she meant new like less than 2000 years, not new like less than 10.
I'm always a little surprised by the literalness of some literal interpretations. We define a "day" based on the time it takes the earth to revolve once on its axis, relative to the sun. It seems hard to time those things until the light is separated from the dark and there is an earth to revolve. " But it isn't just "God did this, in this order, and explained it so that we would understand" it is "God did this, in this order, in 24 hours."
The former makes sense from an evolutionary position - there was light, then there was matter, there was water, there were plants before there were animals before there were people... Miraculous, yet easy to believe.
The latter is miraculous and requires a little more faith. Standing by the 24 hour model means you have to ignore the fossil record and carbon dating and a lot of other things.
If it works for you, great. But I definitely struggle with that one.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2012 18:57:34 GMT -5
I still remember the day I morphed. It didnt take right away and for about a week I had feathers sticking out my ass. That had to tickle.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2012 18:58:07 GMT -5
My mom just knows i like to debate and am not religoius. She does not like confrontation, and She would think that my questioning her as to what she believes and why would be because i think she is wrong. It would make her very uncomfortable and be tense. Better to just avoid it, unfortunately.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2012 18:59:14 GMT -5
I still remember the day I morphed. It didnt take right away and for about a week I had feathers sticking out my ass. That had to tickle.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 3, 2012 19:01:42 GMT -5
Actually, the idea that the bible is the literal word is a very new concept... and mostly held among evangelicals... i think... I'm 53 and I've always believed (been taught) that the bible is to be taken literally. And...I do... I was taught the same thing, cran. I managed to deprogram myself and let logic take the reins for a while.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2012 19:02:54 GMT -5
Well, if you like oped, I'm Catholic and love religious debates. I confess, I don't subscribe to many of the modern political teachings, so I may not be the most stereotypical specimen. But you can PM me anytime.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2012 19:05:09 GMT -5
Thanks craftysarah, I may just take you up on that offer
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Sept 3, 2012 19:25:05 GMT -5
Well, if you like oped, I'm Catholic and love religious debates. I confess, I don't subscribe to many of the modern political teachings, so I may not be the most stereotypical specimen. But you can PM me anytime. Same here. I'm pretty much lapsed, but I have 12 years of Catechism and my kids go to catholic school, but I'll do my best to answer.
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Sept 3, 2012 20:18:02 GMT -5
I was discussing something along these lines ( making assumptions about someone else's views without checking first ) while DH and I were driving home from a nice Labor Day outing. I was telling him that although I'm a committed Christian, I am only one of two Christians in my agnostic/atheistic family. Many Christians who don't know me, either take me as a conversion project on for having a Jewish last name, or ignorantly cut down atheists to my face. Of course, I think that both are just ignorant behavior, and I have been known to ask the (what I consider to be a ) harasser whether they realize that they are insulting my husband, my family, and myself when they inform me that unless certain types of people are born again, they're going to h-e-double-hockey sticks. They ask me if I'm born again, and I say, " Certainly ", and explain about my personal relationship that I have with Our Lord. Then I ask them why it's all right for them to say bad things about my atheistic/agnostic parents, and why it's okay to insult my DH, whom God sent to me after much prayer on my part. They usually STFU. People can be s-t-u-p-i-d. ( I converted first to Christianity, and then Catholic Christianity, as an adult, after taking the appropriate lessions at the two churches that did the two conversions. That doesn't mean that I would ever turn my back on my beloved family. Far from it. )
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2012 20:38:02 GMT -5
Contrary to popular belief, honor thy father and mother didn't have an asterisk at the end of it. Sounds like your folks raised a good kid to me.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2012 20:55:00 GMT -5
"Shooby's claim about evolution was equally as ridiculous." Yes, some of Shooby's claims were not correct, but I wouldn't call her ignorant She is ignorant of basic scientific knowledge specifically in the realm of evolution.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2012 21:06:48 GMT -5
Personally I don't believe either evolution or intelligent design. My argument goes like this:
Evolution could never produce something as utterly useless as an accountant. It makes no scientific sense.
And even God doesn't have a perverse enough sense of humor to create an accountant.
Therefore neither evolution or intelligent design can be used to explain the existence of accountants.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2012 21:08:46 GMT -5
Accountants do not exist. They are just random chemical blobs performing random, useless functions.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 3, 2012 21:09:32 GMT -5
I was discussing something along these lines ( making assumptions about someone else's views without checking first ) while DH and I were driving home from a nice Labor Day outing. I was telling him that although I'm a committed Christian, I am only one of two Christians in my agnostic/atheistic family. Many Christians who don't know me, either take me as a conversion project on for having a Jewish last name, or ignorantly cut down atheists to my face. Of course, I think that both are just ignorant behavior, and I have been known to ask the (what I consider to be a ) harasser whether they realize that they are insulting my husband, my family, and myself when they inform me that unless certain types of people are born again, they're going to h-e-double-hockey sticks. They ask me if I'm born again, and I say, " Certainly ", and explain about my personal relationship that I have with Our Lord. Then I ask them why it's all right for them to say bad things about my atheistic/agnostic parents, and why it's okay to insult my DH, whom God sent to me after much prayer on my part. They usually STFU. People can be s-t-u-p-i-d. ( I converted first to Christianity, and then Catholic Christianity, as an adult, after taking the appropriate lessions at the two churches that did the two conversions. That doesn't mean that I would ever turn my back on my beloved family. Far from it. ) I was born but once and that was a mighty struggle.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Sept 3, 2012 21:10:21 GMT -5
Personally I don't believe either evolution or intelligent design. My argument goes like this: Evolution could never produce something as utterly useless as an accountant. It makes no scientific sense. And even God doesn't have a perverse enough sense of humor to create an accountant. Therefore neither evolution or intelligent design can be used to explain the existence of accountants. I think that argument fails on both levels. First, evolution doesn't have to make scientific sense. And second, it is blasphemy to underestimate God (or his sense of humor.) Sorry.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2012 21:11:44 GMT -5
Personally I don't believe either evolution or intelligent design. My argument goes like this: Evolution could never produce something as utterly useless as an accountant. It makes no scientific sense. And even God doesn't have a perverse enough sense of humor to create an accountant. Therefore neither evolution or intelligent design can be used to explain the existence of accountants. I think that argument fails on both levels. First, evolution doesn't have to make scientific sense. And second, it is blasphemy to underestimate God (or his sense of humor.) Sorry. Just more proof of my theory....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2012 21:12:15 GMT -5
Accountants do not exist. They are just random chemical blobs performing random, useless functions. You got the second part right.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Sept 3, 2012 21:16:10 GMT -5
I think that argument fails on both levels. First, evolution doesn't have to make scientific sense. And second, it is blasphemy to underestimate God (or his sense of humor.) Sorry. Just more proof of my theory.... How so? Evolution could certainly produce something as utterly useless as an accountant, and God can certainly be shown to have an odd sense of humor. Look at the platypus.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2012 21:17:11 GMT -5
That's true, we have grown some absolutely useless appendages. So , it IS possible, Arch.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2012 21:17:59 GMT -5
That's true, we have grown some absolutely useless appendages. So , it IS possible, Arch. Leave my sex life out of this.
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Sept 3, 2012 21:44:32 GMT -5
You people are totally fun. And Tenn, for what it's worth, it was easier to be born again than born the first time, I'm sure, in my case....
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Sept 4, 2012 0:13:43 GMT -5
The latter is miraculous and requires a little more faith. Standing by the 24 hour model means you have to ignore the fossil record and carbon dating and a lot of other things. If it works for you, great. But I definitely struggle with that one. Two ways around those - you can believe it is just bad science or believe it is a test of faith by god. My co-workers enjoy arguing the bad science angle. Apparently neanderthals and other prehistoric men were just people with diseases that caused misshapen heads & bones. Then they point to scientific mistakes like piltdown man as proof the scientists are wrong. Dinosaurs did exist, but went extinct recently as the earth is only 6000 years old. Radio carbon dating is flawed because according to my coworkers scientists never bothered to consider or adjust for the fact that carbon levels in the atmosphere are not constant. They also have varying proofs of the 6k age of the earth. One of my favorites being if you take the current rate of population growth & calculate backwards, then you end up with Noah's family 4500 years ago. I just love the ridiculous assumption of the constant population growth rate from the same people claiming scientists didn't remember to account for changing carbon levels.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 4, 2012 2:00:40 GMT -5
As am I, Celtic. I always cringe when I see one of these threads start. They can go to the proverbial hell in the proverbial handbasket in a nanosecond. For the most part, all of you have contributed to keeping this discussion courteous and inclusive.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 4, 2012 2:03:02 GMT -5
Just more proof of my theory.... How so? Evolution could certainly produce something as utterly useless as an accountant, and God can certainly be shown to have an odd sense of humor. Look at the platypus. Aww. Don't be dissin' on the platypus. I like 'em. They're cute! Then again, I think sloths are cute.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Sept 4, 2012 2:32:56 GMT -5
How so? Evolution could certainly produce something as utterly useless as an accountant, and God can certainly be shown to have an odd sense of humor. Look at the platypus. Aww. Don't be dissin' on the platypus. I like 'em. They're cute! Then again, I think sloths are cute. I wasn't dissin' on the platypus! On the contrary, I think they are God's chosen duck-billed, web-footed, beaver-tailed, semi-aquatic, egg-laying mammals.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 4, 2012 2:39:02 GMT -5
Oh, good! I was about to smite you, tallguy! The platypus is an elegant creature. It is our understanding of elegance that is sorely lacking! ;D
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Sept 4, 2012 2:50:15 GMT -5
Oh, good! I was about to smite you, tallguy! The platypus is an elegant creature. It is our understanding of elegance that is sorely lacking! ;D Ummm, no. On both counts. I have a great appreciation for elegance, and there is nothing elegant about the platypus. If it were truly elegant it would have no need for a duckbill, webbed feet, or a beavertail.... You can still think them cute, though. And this: I mean seriously, how could they not be? It's not like they have any competition for the honor. ;D
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