973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Sept 2, 2012 14:02:09 GMT -5
If this was a rare conversation maybe, but she is going to be in a classroom with them 7 hours a day, 180 days a year. Something as fundemental as having a kid isn't the same thing as keeping your political views to yourself IMO. She shouldn't be getting into TMI details with the kids either but expecting her to keep having a child a secret is not reasonable. ...but this is a private school setting, with different rules for "reasonable"... correct? No. I'm saying that as a former Catholic school student. My kids are 16 and 9 and I taught for a few years and DH teaches college PT. I promise you the first question asked by the kids, ours, others, young and old alike, is do you have children. Her only choices was to either answer honestly, lie or try and avoid the subject every day for the next year. This isn't a one time interaction she would have had to keep changing the subject every single day of the year. That alone would have been really really strange since there is nothing wrong with having a child. The last choice would have made this a MUCH bigger deal than than just answering the question honestly. Adults make these things a much bigger deal than the kids. They just wanted to know if she had a kid. They could care less about any of the nonsense that the adults care about. Now if the parents can just leave it alone the kids will never care and probably have a great year and learn a lot. If she can't teach them everything she is supposed to then they should complain and get her fired because she is incompetent.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Sept 2, 2012 14:09:03 GMT -5
...but this is a private school setting, with different rules for "reasonable"... correct? No. I'm saying that as a former Catholic school student. My kids are 16 and 9 and I taught for a few years and DH teaches college PT. I promise you the first question asked by the kids, ours, others, young and old alike, is do you have children. Her only choices was to either answer honestly, lie or try and avoid the subject every day for the next year. This isn't a one time interaction she would have had to keep changing the subject every single day of the year. That alone would have been really really strange since there is nothing wrong with having a child. The last choice would have made this a MUCH bigger deal than than just answering the question honestly. Adults make these things a much bigger deal than the kids. They just wanted to know if she had a kid. They could care less about any of the nonsense that the adults care about. Now if the parents can just leave it alone the kids will never care and probably have a great year and learn a lot. If she can't teach them everything she is supposed to then they should complain and get her fired because she is incompetent. ...and I've taught, too... both private and public... and I can promise you that the subject of my offspring was NOT the first question asked... ...the point of the OP remains... and the question of what a suitable remedy will be on this point also remains...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2012 14:10:45 GMT -5
I thought that was pretty much settled. If he doesn't like it, he should take the kid out of the school. He has every right to do so.
My students always asked about pets too...
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Sept 2, 2012 14:34:53 GMT -5
So, now that you've looked up the relevant court case, foodiedad, are you going to do the "right" thing and get this sinner with the kid and no husband fired ?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2012 14:37:18 GMT -5
When I did a few long term subbing assignments one of the first questions WAS "do you have kids."
Goose came to speak on one of my classes, not only did they ask him all about his job (military) they wanted to know how we met, how he proposed to me, how much he paid for the ring, what our first date was...yes, 4th grade students were very curious about our lives.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2012 14:44:35 GMT -5
Foodiedad you admit to having premarital sex... I don't see how age makes it more or less of a sin? And to be fair you are guessing the age of your DD's teacher to be 23 just based on appearance... She could in fact be 27 or 28? Does that really change how you feel about her being unmarried and with a child? I don't get it? Well, I have done a google search on her since I started this thread. She graduated HS in 2008 and graduated college this past May (2012). You are the one who keeps focusing on the sin aspect of it. Not me. I am focused on the aspect of how to teach my child this year (she is already at the point of needing a training bra) to be chaste and to wait until she is an adult when she has, at the same time, a teacher who didn't wait and had a child before she got married.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2012 14:51:33 GMT -5
So, now that you've looked up the relevant court case, foodiedad, are you going to do the "right" thing and get this sinner with the kid and no husband fired ? One of the topics they are covering this year is chastity until marriage - I wonder how she will be able to cover that section ...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2012 14:53:20 GMT -5
Foodiedad you admit to having premarital sex... I don't see how age makes it more or less of a sin? And to be fair you are guessing the age of your DD's teacher to be 23 just based on appearance... She could in fact be 27 or 28? Does that really change how you feel about her being unmarried and with a child? I don't get it? Well, I have done a google search on her since I started this thread. She graduated HS in 2008 and graduated college this past May (2012). You are the one who keeps focusing on the sin aspect of it. Not me. I am focused on the aspect of how to teach my child this year (she is already at the point of needing a training bra) to be chaste and to wait until she is an adult when she has, at the same time, a teacher who didn't wait and had a child before she got married. I don't see what is so difficult about this. You teach her your values and teach her that not everyone has those same values. I think it's totally hypocrital of you to teach her and expect her to wait until marriage for sex when neither you or your wife did.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2012 14:53:29 GMT -5
Well, I have done a google search on her since I started this thread. She graduated HS in 2008 and graduated college this past May (2012). You are the one who keeps focusing on the sin aspect of it. Not me. I am focused on the aspect of how to teach my child this year (she is already at the point of needing a training bra) to be chaste and to wait until she is an adult when she has, at the same time, a teacher who didn't wait and had a child before she got married. Ok... I find the Google search on her just downright creepy... Why? I have done Google searches on potential employees before. In fact, so have two of my prior employers before extending offers to candidates.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2012 14:54:25 GMT -5
How would you cover it ?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2012 15:21:10 GMT -5
BTW, how do you that she wasn't raped and then choose to have the child? You don't. So, do you really think you should be jumping to a lot of assumptions about this woman and her character? I find it very curious that had sex out of wedlock which i presume is labeled a sin and yet you are having a problem with her. You don't know her, her life situation or the particulars. And, God forgives. If she is a good teacher and not actively engaged in sinning, then maybe you would want to follow the example of forgiveness 70 x 7. But, if not, again, you are certainly free to complain and/or remove your child from the school.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2012 15:22:31 GMT -5
And last I checked... One is legally an adult at age 18... But if she just turned 22, and the baby is four years old, she wasn't an adult and wasn't out of high school when the baby was conceived.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Sept 2, 2012 15:23:41 GMT -5
So, now that you've looked up the relevant court case, foodiedad, are you going to do the "right" thing and get this sinner with the kid and no husband fired ? One of the topics they are covering this year is chastity until marriage - I wonder how she will be able to cover that section ... Posted in all seriousness and no snarkiness whatsoever: I think the only way you can insure that your daughter will only come in contact with chaste teachers is to send her to a convent school (and even then there can be a few outliers who come to religious life later in life). Sooner or later, and maybe even already, there will be someone your daughter meets/knows that didn't/isn't living a chaste life. In other words, this teacher is just the catalyst that is waking you up to start the conversations with your daughter now. Although, IMHO, if you'd started those conversations "yesterday" you'd already have a foundation to rely upon in dealing with this teacher's situation. I personally think you have a really, really awesome opportunity for some meaningful discussions with your daughter this year. One way or another, the teacher is going to have to reconcile her situation with the material she is teaching the kids. If her instruction and explanations and answers don't jive with the curriculum, then she will be out on her butt. But, don't you think she knows that? Don't you think she has already thought about how to address the inconsistency in her personal situation? Your choices are to: 1)pull your DD out of the class or the school now; 2) meet with the teacher in a supportive, friendly way and ask her, given that this year's curriculum discusses chastity/abstinence for "help" in starting some conversations with your daughter at home on this topic. This will give you a window into the teacher's thought process and curriculum plans. 3) wait it out and give the teacher a chance and making the decision to leave your daughter in or pull her out as the year unfolds; 4) something far less Christian that ends up in driving the teacher out of the school. Foodiedad, you do have a right to ask questions about curriculum and instructional plans. Since this can be SUCH a hot button issue in your daughter's world, you should try to wrap your inquiry in support, genuine curiosity, and even some self-deprecating humor. Good luck!! Let us know how things go. Some of us are rooting for you to handle this in the most gentle way possible -- if for no other reason than as an example to your daughter how to address differences in faith and values.
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susanb
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Post by susanb on Sept 2, 2012 15:31:31 GMT -5
People don't want to hear a sermon, they want to see one.
Jesus didn't just talk forgiveness, he also lived it. Mary Magdalen's reputation was far more tarnished than this teachers, yet Jesus welcomed her with open arms.
Perhaps you should more exclusively focus on living a faith and principle based life instead of spending so much energy focusing on the sins of others. Show your daughter how to live forgiveness and compassion.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2012 15:36:16 GMT -5
Mary Magdalen was not a prostitute.
I know several people who graduated from high school before they turned 18. I mean, really, do you need to know the exact details so that you can sanction or not sanction whether her offense was forgivable or not ?
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susanb
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Post by susanb on Sept 2, 2012 15:37:07 GMT -5
Mary Magdalen was not a prostitute. I know several people who graduated from high school before they turned 18. I mean, really, do you need to know the exact details so that you can sanction or not sanction whether her offense was forgivable or not ? I didn't say she was, Oped.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2012 15:40:45 GMT -5
Ok. Sorry, what reputation were you refering to? I was not aware that she had one.
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susanb
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Post by susanb on Sept 2, 2012 15:43:03 GMT -5
Seven demons were cast out of her according to the New Testament. Guessing that a formerly demon possessed woman would be considered less reputable than an unwed mother, but, maybe I am wrong. You seem determined to prove me so every time I post.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Sept 2, 2012 15:44:53 GMT -5
Ok. Sorry, what reputation were you refering to? I was not aware that she had one. I can't remember which one but one of the Popes years and years ago combined the story about the prostitute and the story of Mary Magdalene. It has been almost impossible to untangle them ever since.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2012 15:45:31 GMT -5
Honestly, I didn't think you'd see that, since you told me you put me on ignore. The interpretations i've read translate the demons as illnesses, so that's why i was confused.
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susanb
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Post by susanb on Sept 2, 2012 15:47:28 GMT -5
Honestly, I didn't think you'd see that, since you told me you put me on ignore. The interpretations i've read translate the demons as illnesses, so that's why i was confused. So you thought you were challenging my position in spite of the fact that I wouldn't have an opportunity to defend myself? mmmkay, I see where you are coming from.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2012 15:47:58 GMT -5
LOL!
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 2, 2012 16:11:12 GMT -5
And last I checked... One is legally an adult at age 18... But if she just turned 22, and the baby is four years old, she wasn't an adult and wasn't out of high school when the baby was conceived. I'm surprised the google search didn't turn up her birthday so you could have calculated that. Yes if she isn't rounding up her child's age for convenience sake she probably got pregnant around the holidays of her senior year in high school. Now you are assuming it was consensual, but it could have been date rape, stranger rape or even incest. If it was one of those three is she really a worse person than: "And to answer someone else, no my wife and I were not virgins on our wedding night, but we were virgins well into/after our college years."? I understand giving some weight to waiting longer however if the sin police were out I don't think when you sinned is nearly as important as that you did. If you want your daughter to remain chaste I'm not sure why you or the teacher are mentally and physically incapable of teaching that lesson. For all you know she might have some really good suggestions of how to stay chaste if it was date rape or she felt she got talked into to it. Odds are the principal knows more of the story. If you really are so distressed about this if you talk to him again perhaps he will cough up more of the circumstances in an effort to make you happy.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2012 16:22:39 GMT -5
In Foodie's defense, it is a centuries-old tradition that teachers were not allowed to have personal lives. At one point, they had to quit if they got married. At another point, they had to quit before they began to "show" so that they wouldn't scar young children for life. Some of it is silly, but it is true that we are a role model, particularly for kids who have no other role models. However, I don't think this is the case with Foodie's daughter. She has her parents to be a role model, who should model Christian love towards everyone to the point of admitting that we are all sinners.
Let her get through the year, Foodie. She no doubt has a contract that doesn't include being fired for having had a child out of wedlock. It is in your child's interest to be as supportive of your child's teacher as possible. It's fine to ask her how she is going to approach the lesson on chastity, but try not to point fingers and smirk while you are doing it.
Remember that for the grace of God, there might be your daughter's mother since you engaged in premarital sex as well. It doesn't matter whether you were 17 or 27; if you believe it is a sin, you don't get an excuse because you waited until you were much older. In fact, she gets the excuse if anyone does because she was awfully young.
If you give her a chance, you may be pleasantly surprised at what a good role model she may be. Sometimes the "sinners" in the world have a lot more credibility.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Sept 2, 2012 16:23:29 GMT -5
Foodiedad--Since you admit that neither you or your wife were virgins on your wedding night are you REALLY against premarital sex, or just that this teacher got caught? You say you see both sides of the issue, but your posts only reflect the hypocrisy of your stance.
Will you be honest with your daughter that neither you or your wife were virgins, or were you let them assume that you practiced what you preach?
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Sept 2, 2012 16:32:19 GMT -5
Seven demons were cast out of her according to the New Testament. Guessing that a formerly demon possessed woman would be considered less reputable than an unwed mother, but, maybe I am wrong. You seem determined to prove me so every time I post. That and the song "I Don't Know How to Love Him" from the play "Jesus Christ Superstar".
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Sept 2, 2012 16:40:01 GMT -5
Rae your last question makes me realize I don't want to even think about my parents having sex... much less when they did... in fact I just know the stork brought me! ;D Which I think is THE reason why so many parents don't teach their kids about sex. Who wants to admit to their kids that they did "that and that and that"? ;D
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2012 16:42:17 GMT -5
Ok foodie dad answer this honestly:
- how were you and your wife planning to approach/cover the subject with your daughter? - and what would you guys answer when she asked and she will: Did you and mommy wait till you were married to have sex?
Because from where I am standing as a CHRISTIAN, you and your wife are no better than that teacher. Your sins just happened not to be out there for the world to see and judge.
No wonder so many "religious" man are in the closet while dating some repectable girl and so many "good Christian" girls are taking it up the butt (hey, technically they are still virgins). My wife and I both went to Catholic school, they players may have changed but the game remain the same.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2012 16:48:52 GMT -5
Typical teen attitude toward parents and sex: You can tell how many times Mom and Dad had sex. Count how many kids they had. They tried it once and didn't like it. They tried it again several years later in case they were wrong and decided "never again." People with three kids are just slow learners <g>.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 2, 2012 17:07:13 GMT -5
So, now that you've looked up the relevant court case, foodiedad, are you going to do the "right" thing and get this sinner with the kid and no husband fired ? One of the topics they are covering this year is chastity until marriage - I wonder how she will be able to cover that section ... In fourth grade?
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