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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2012 22:50:03 GMT -5
DD is in 4th grade this year at a private Christian school. The school hired a new teacher for her grade over the summer. She is a young woman just out of college (doesn't look to be older than 23) and, as it turns out, a single, never-wed mother of a four year old.
The school did not mention the fact that she has a child to any of the families of students in the fourth grade.
Even during the meet and greet the day prior to the school year starting, she did not mention that fact to any of the parents.
However, she DID mention it to the kids on the first day of class to the children. DD came home and mentioned, "Miss Jones has a kid." The way she mentioned it I figured she misunderstood and didn't press the issue.
It was made clear to all the parents who went to the 'fun run' following the first week of classes because there she was with her daughter in tow.
One of the parents of a child in the class approached the pastor of our church-run school about the situation and he basically blew it off saying, "We practice forgiveness."
Of course we do. I also respect the fact that she did not have an abortion and finished school and is self-supporting.
Where I have an issue is that I specifically pay extra to send DD to a private school where the values taught are supposed to reflect the values I was raised with, believe in, and reflect those of the church school where we are sending her.
How am I supposed to reconcile, "Respect yourself, your body, and no sex/children until you are an adult, plus teenage pregnancy is ABSOLUTELY THE STUPIDEST THING YOU can ever do" with the fact that her teacher is supposed to be a primary authority figure and role model?
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Aug 31, 2012 22:56:32 GMT -5
...does the school normally tell parents about the family status of your teachers? if so, then I'd wonder why the concealment now... ...otherwise, why not have a single mom? and what if she was widowed? do you know she's unwed?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2012 23:00:47 GMT -5
I know the family status of all the teachers that DD has had, in fact, she has been babysat by the daughter of her 3rd grade teacher and the mom of one of her classmates is the sister of the first grade teacher.
As for knowing for sure her marital status, one of the other parents asked her at the 'fun run' and was told that she hasn't been married.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Aug 31, 2012 23:06:55 GMT -5
<<< I know the family status of all the teachers that DD has had >>>
...because the school discloses it? or because you attend the church and most faculty do, too?
<<< As for knowing for sure her marital status, one of the other parents asked her at the 'fun run' and was told that she hasn't been married. >>>
...well, then it may be true... which brings you back to the forgiveness comment from the principal... which, while a bit on the glib side, was a correct statement, no?
...I'm curious, too, about the personnel selection committee and the church bylaws that manage the Christian academy... it may very well be permissible for parents to inquire and influence the screening criteria for faculty... have you looked into that? and what would be an acceptable remedy at this point, in your opinion?
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Aug 31, 2012 23:08:21 GMT -5
You know, foodiedad, because someone gossiped to you after asking the teacher a personal question and receiving an answer. How would your child know? Unless, of course, you told the child, or the person who intruded into the teacher's personal life decided to be sure this little "tidbit" got around. The kids, as far as I'm concerned, would be just fine if the adults would be adult enough not to visit their personal hang-ups on them.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Aug 31, 2012 23:14:07 GMT -5
...at the risk of sounding like a jerk, MM and mm... you two have posted profanity and an accusation of gossip on a thread about a private Christian school parent's concern... it's a legitimate question in his reality...
:-\
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2012 23:20:42 GMT -5
You know, foodiedad, because someone gossiped to you after asking the teacher a personal question and receiving an answer. How would your child know? What part of, `she told the class on the first day that she has a kid` did you miss? Add to the fact that she told the students to call her `Miss` because she hasn't been married...it doesn't take a rocket scientist (or even a 4th grader) to figure it out.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Aug 31, 2012 23:29:24 GMT -5
...at the risk of sounding like a jerk, MM and mm... you two have posted profanity and an accusation of gossip on a thread about a private Christian school parent's concern... it's a legitimate question in his reality... :-\ Oh for crying out loud.... seriously? ...hey... I did preface it with a disclaimer...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2012 23:31:05 GMT -5
mmhmm - so parents aren't allowed to talk about, and try to confirm amongst themselves information that she herself told the children on the first day of class? (Which DD told me that night, but I figured she misunderstood as 10 year olds are known to do?)
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Aug 31, 2012 23:31:54 GMT -5
If this teacher was so scandalous... would the private Catholic school even hire her? Ask for a different teacher then... I simply don't see how her private life is anyones business. Maybe the school isn't as good as they say they are then... Personally I don't want to raise my kids in a bubble... but to each their own. ...and here is where private lives ARE the business of the Christian school... ...and as a private school, they likely do have morality clauses in place...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2012 23:36:25 GMT -5
If this teacher was so scandalous... would the private Catholic school even hire her? Ask for a different teacher then... I simply don't see how her private life is anyones business. Maybe the school isn't as good as they say they are then... Personally I don't want to raise my kids in a bubble... but to each their own. Well, it is illegal to ask personal questions in an interview - so I would presume she didn't tell them about it. We can't ask for a different teacher - there is only one class for each grade level. And if she makes her life part public on the first day of class, she cannot claim that it is private anymore.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Aug 31, 2012 23:39:15 GMT -5
If this teacher was so scandalous... would the private Catholic school even hire her? Ask for a different teacher then... I simply don't see how her private life is anyones business. Maybe the school isn't as good as they say they are then... Personally I don't want to raise my kids in a bubble... but to each their own. Well, it is illegal to ask personal questions in an interview - so I would presume she didn't tell them about it. We can't ask for a different teacher - there is only one class for each grade level. And if she makes her life part public on the first day of class, she cannot claim that it is private anymore. ...1. true, 2. I'm not surprised, 3. true... ...which leads me back to my earlier questions... have you looked or would you look into the bylaws/screening criteria? what would be an acceptable remedy in your opinion? etc....
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Aug 31, 2012 23:41:07 GMT -5
I think you use it as an awesome teaching moment. Explain to DD how her teacher goes home after school and cares for her daughter -- alone -- while all of her unmarried friends without children can get together to go to the movies, shopping, a concert, etc. Explain how raising a child with a partner/spouse is very hard work and that doing it alone means there is no one to help or share the work or even to celebrate the good times with. Give your DD real-life, reasons why being a single, teen mother is not as cool and glamorous as it might seem. Concrete reasons are usually more effective than vague, blanket rules. As far as any assumptions you might be inclined to draw about the teacher, we all would do well not to be so quick to judge. That job belongs to someone else with a higher authority. Besides, as tragic as it could be as a way to become a parent, what if she became pregnant from abuse or rape and not from consensual, premarital sex and made the incredible sacrifice to carry and raise the chilld? Would that make her single parenthood more "moral"? Finally, whenever I find myself feeling high and mighty, I remember that Jesus preferred the company of the imperfect and the sinners.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Aug 31, 2012 23:41:12 GMT -5
...and MM.. from the OP details, I'm presuming that they're Protestant, not Catholic...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2012 23:41:18 GMT -5
mmhmm - so parents aren't allowed to talk about, and try to confirm amongst themselves information that she herself told the children on the first day of class? (Which DD told me that night, but I figured she misunderstood as 10 year olds are known to do?) What fact changes her ability as a teacher for you is what I am asking? If she never mentioned her child but still had one what changes? It changes her ability to be a role model and to be an authority figure. How can we as Christians who believe in abstinence and will teach that to our daughter then say, "Well, believe anything your teacher says, just not the part of having a kid before you're married?" If she never mentioned it to the students, I would have never known. But it is too late to un-ring that bell.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Aug 31, 2012 23:44:28 GMT -5
I think you use it as an awesome teaching moment. Explain to DD how her teacher goes home after school and cares for her daughter -- alone -- while all of her unmarried friends without children can get together to go to the movies, shopping, a concert, etc. Explain how raising a child with a partner/spouse is very hard work and that doing it alone means there is no one to help or share the work or even to celebrate the good times with. Give your DD real-life, reasons why being a single, teen mother is not as cool and glamorous as it might seem. Concrete reasons are usually more effective than vague, blanket rules. As far as any assumptions you might be inclined to draw about the teacher, we all would do well not to be so quick to judge. That job belongs to someone else with a higher authority. Besides, as tragic as it could be as a way to become a parent, what if she became pregnant from abuse or rape and not from consensual, premarital sex and made the incredible sacrifice to carry and raise the chilld? Would that make her single parenthood more "moral"? Finally, whenever I find myself feeling high and mighty, I remember that Jesus preferred the company of the imperfect and the sinners. ...good points, all... and I'm thinking that I'd be inclined to extend employment offers to an unwed mother to the older grades, which, arguably, 4th is... imo, 4th graders can begin to grasp more mature themes...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2012 23:54:55 GMT -5
I still don't understand... but if your kids teacher's personal life that doesn't happen to jive with your personal morality is your biggest concern... consider yourself lucky as a parent.... MM - if I wasn't paying for a private Christian school education which they teach Christian morals, ethics, and behavior I wouldn't have as much as an issue with it. But I am, as are other parents of children in DDs class are and we are concerned about the morals that are being taught both in words and in deeds.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2012 23:59:48 GMT -5
You need to look into the hiring criteria the school uses. That sounds really unusual for a private christian school. It's not like the market is short on teachers, so no reason to compromise on their requirements, especially for a brand new teacher. Makes me wonder who's daughter she might be? An influential Bishop?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2012 0:02:23 GMT -5
It changes her ability to be a role model and to be an authority figure. How can we as Christians who believe in abstinence and will teach that to our daughter then say, "Well, believe anything your teacher says, just not the part of having a kid before you're married?" If she never mentioned it to the students, I would have never known. But it is too late to un-ring that bell. I would never put that much pressure on my kids teacher to be a primary role model to begin with. And when you say "Christian" lets be more specific about denomination. I'll assume you're Catholic. I'm Christian but most certainly not Catholic. While I would love to assurme my boys will be virgins on their wedding g night.... I'm not going to put all of my eggs in that basket. Ill teach them the importance of being in a committed monogamous relationship and make sure they understand risks and how to minimuze their risks but I am not going to stick my head in the sand either. Ignorance is bliss until someone ends up pregnant. You don't think a teacher should be a primary role model? Where do you draw the line? What behavior would you find unacceptable from a teacher? I know my wife and I are the ultimate role models for her, but she spends more waking hours with this woman than we do during the work week (in class from 8-3:15) so yes, most parents at our school look to teachers to be role models. And no, I will not be sticking my head in the sand, trust me on that, but I don't need have to have my nose pressed into a pile of excrement to know that it stinks, either.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Sept 1, 2012 0:03:20 GMT -5
You need to look into the hiring criteria the school uses. That sounds really unusual for a private christian school. It's not like the market is short on teachers, so no reason to compromise on their requirements, especially for a brand new teacher. Makes me wonder who's daughter she might be? An influential Bishop? ...doubtful... ...fwiw, I'd be ticked if the board of trustees and faculty intended to utilize this teacher's story as an object lesson to my kids without notifying the parents...
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Sept 1, 2012 0:05:25 GMT -5
I still don't understand... but if your kids teacher's personal life that doesn't happen to jive with your personal morality is your biggest concern... consider yourself lucky as a parent.... MM - if I wasn't paying for a private Christian school education which they teach Christian morals, ethics, and behavior I wouldn't have as much as an issue with it. But I am, as are other parents of children in DDs class are and we are concerned about the morals that are being taught both in words and in deeds. Asked in sincere curiousity and not at all in snarkiness: She was a teen-ager and she made a mistake. She's owning her mistake. How long should she be punished for that mistake? Or, was her mistake a mortal sin and she can never be saved now? Should she wear a scarlet A on her chest?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2012 0:12:34 GMT -5
MM - if I wasn't paying for a private Christian school education which they teach Christian morals, ethics, and behavior I wouldn't have as much as an issue with it. But I am, as are other parents of children in DDs class are and we are concerned about the morals that are being taught both in words and in deeds. Asked in sincere curiousity and not at all in snarkiness: She was a teen-ager and she made a mistake. She's owning her mistake. How long should she be punished for that mistake? Or, was her mistake a mortal sin and she can never be saved now? Should she wear a scarlet A on her chest? I am not asking for any of that, I am glad she has persevered through it and got her degree. I am just upset at the fact that she is in an influential role/position as a teacher in a private Catholic school where it goes against the teachings and morals that we expect our daughter to be taught there? If she was to teach in a public school where morals and Catholic teachings are not included in their upbringing, it would not be an issue. But she isn't - she is teaching at a Catholic school. (Are you happy I spelled that out now MM?? - I left it out because I know that in itself is a hot button for many people and was trying to keep the topic on the hiring decision and the issues around it rather than people's personal opinion on the Catholic Church.)
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Sept 1, 2012 0:21:19 GMT -5
Asked in sincere curiousity and not at all in snarkiness: She was a teen-ager and she made a mistake. She's owning her mistake. How long should she be punished for that mistake? Or, was her mistake a mortal sin and she can never be saved now? Should she wear a scarlet A on her chest? I am not asking for any of that, I am glad she has persevered through it and got her degree. I am just upset at the fact that she is in an influential role/position as a teacher in a private Catholic school where it goes against the teachings and morals that we expect our daughter to be taught there? If she was to teach in a public school where morals and Catholic teachings are not included in their upbringing, it would not be an issue. But she isn't - she is teaching at a Catholic school. (Are you happy I spelled that out now MM?? - I left it out because I know that in itself is a hot button for many people and was trying to keep the topic on the hiring decision and the issues around it rather than people's personal opinion on the Catholic Church.) ...fwiw, I can still relate with you regarding some of these concerns... but our paths diverge since my direct experience is Protestant church administration/academies...
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Post by lurkyloo on Sept 1, 2012 0:25:07 GMT -5
Maybe the child is adopted. Maybe the teacher was a victim of rape. IMO this is only an issue if you choose to make it an issue.
What do you want the school to do, fire the teacher for having a child? That sounds to me like it's just asking for legal trouble. Not to mention being a really crappy thing to do.
As I see it you have three choices. 1. Suck it up, deal with it, and talk to your child as necessary about how sometimes people make mistakes and how difficult it probably was for her teacher to pull her life back together. 2. Transfer your child to a different school. 3. Agitate and get the other parents riled up and try to get the teacher fired.
Just so's you're aware, choice 3 is not really consistent with the ideals of Christianity as I learned them.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Sept 1, 2012 0:28:12 GMT -5
And for the record so no one feels exposed or singled out.. I am Episcopalian. We are pretty liberal compared to a lot of other Christian denominations... still Christian but not as rigid. ...and your signature about life being too short to be sober is quite the clue-in... (lol, couldn't resist)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2012 0:30:04 GMT -5
And for the record so no one feels exposed or singled out.. I am Episcopalian. We are pretty liberal compared to a lot of other Christian denominations... still Christian but not as rigid. Really? Based on this, it does seem Episcopalians teach "purity" and sex before marriage is bad in their church and schools.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2012 0:33:59 GMT -5
...and your signature about life being too short to be sober is quite the clue-in... (lol, couldn't resist) Exactly... we serve real wine at communion... no grape juice for us! ETA: does that make us the frat house of Christianity? The Catholic Sacramental communion chalice is also filled with real wine...
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Sept 1, 2012 0:34:37 GMT -5
I'm Catholic. I went to Catholic school. One of my kids went to a Jesuit school. I understand your point, but, if you think this teacher does not belong in the school because of her (obvious) past and you don't know how to explain the teacher's child to your DD, how will you explain Jesus' relationship with Mary Magdalene to your DD? And how will you explain it to your DD if the teacher gets run out of school because of her child?
Things are not always so black and white as we might like them to be. God is giving you and the other parents a test. You are being asked to be Jesus for this teacher. Will you be?
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Sept 1, 2012 0:35:58 GMT -5
...and we Baptists use grape juice... 'cuz drinking leads to sex which leads to dancing, doncha know? ;D
(j/k)
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Sept 1, 2012 0:43:41 GMT -5
...those are girls who drink and dance and covort in unbecoming ways... I am none of those things... ...and no name calling or mm will have to smite you...
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