973beachbum
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,501
|
Post by 973beachbum on Aug 31, 2012 15:25:21 GMT -5
Am I on ignore for everyone?Who said that? I think Mutt was saying 6 months is a little late to figure out you don't get paid time off. No not everyone has enough PTO or gets paid for it but you've had plenty of time by month 6 to figure out what you are going to do. For some it does mean go back to work right away, for others it means saving so at least mom can take time off etc. I called employee services the day after the stick turned pink. I found out I could take 8 weeks paid if I had the vacation time. If I wanted to take the other 4 they would be unpaid. I had nine months to plan if I wanted to take the full 12. I chose not to but if I had wanted to waiting until month 6 to find out that the last 4 weeks are unpaid is a little late. Drama what does that mean? I worked in HR ant that makes no sense to me. If you get maternity leave that is paid then it should have nothing to do with your vacation time. If you don't get any paid maternity leave paid for then they should just say you can use whatever time off you have saved. Saying you can have 8 weeks paid maternity leave but then saying depending on your saved time off is strange to me. Back in the dark ages when I had my kids the paid maternity leave was 6 weeks before and 4 weeks after. Any other time off you wanted was on you. If you had saved up some vacation time you could use it but if not you had to take it without pay or come back to work.
|
|
muttleynfelix
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:32:52 GMT -5
Posts: 9,406
|
Post by muttleynfelix on Aug 31, 2012 15:27:25 GMT -5
Yep. Drama read my intentions. My company actually does not fall under FMLA. We only have 6 employees. Everything we do is worked out directly between me and my boss.
I'm also the sole wage earner in my family. I think this colors my attitude a lot. I have to plan ahead and know what we can afford before pulling the goaly. I think waiting to the last minute to do find out what is paid and unpaid is foolish. It isn't like the stork drops a baby in your lap one day (ok like 1% of the population falls into the I didn't know I was pregnant category, but in general). But that has nothing to do with the FMLA. ANd Carl's coworkers taking time off is their business. I think it is great. I think more men should, but I understand the financial aspect of it.
|
|
muttleynfelix
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:32:52 GMT -5
Posts: 9,406
|
Post by muttleynfelix on Aug 31, 2012 15:29:55 GMT -5
Thyme - it's probably semantics. When I hear about work "giving time" I think paid time, not what FMLA is which is LWOP. I also think when most people refer to paternity/maternity leave as paid leave. Probably because the majority of people can't afford to take 12 weeks off without pay. Except (pulling statistic out of my ass here) 90% of the paternity leave and maternity leave in this country is UNPAID. In the United States, the vast majority of people have to take time off unpaid - male or female. If the mothers get paid time off, it is usually through STD policies.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,331
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 31, 2012 15:32:19 GMT -5
It's unpaid leave but I could use up to 8 weeks of my sick/vacation time if I had it banked. Which I did because I never get sick and don't really take vacations. I didn't word that very well.
We accumulate vacation/sick over time it is not a use it or lose it type of situation. 8 weeks is the maximum amount I can accumulate over a lifetime (or however you want to put it).
So I could use all 8 weeks if I wanted, but most don't have that much accumulated.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,331
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 31, 2012 15:36:51 GMT -5
and for not being able to give the exact day of his leave--I get that its inconvenient, but wth would he take time off BEFORE the baby gets here
Geez I didn't know the exact date either. She could ahve come early or she could have come late. HR told me put down her due date and then give them a buzz when she actually arrived and they'd mark that as my start date.
Same for DH. They put down my due date and said call when she gives birth so we can start the clock.
|
|
justme
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 10, 2012 13:12:47 GMT -5
Posts: 14,618
|
Post by justme on Aug 31, 2012 15:42:56 GMT -5
Thyme - it's probably semantics. When I hear about work "giving time" I think paid time, not what FMLA is which is LWOP. I also think when most people refer to paternity/maternity leave as paid leave. Probably because the majority of people can't afford to take 12 weeks off without pay. Except (pulling statistic out of my ass here) 90% of the paternity leave and maternity leave in this country is UNPAID. In the United States, the vast majority of people have to take time off unpaid - male or female. If the mothers get paid time off, it is usually through STD policies. Well then, if your ass stat ( ) is anywhere near correct then that explains Thyme's frustration.
|
|
muttleynfelix
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:32:52 GMT -5
Posts: 9,406
|
Post by muttleynfelix on Aug 31, 2012 15:44:14 GMT -5
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,443
|
Post by thyme4change on Aug 31, 2012 16:03:11 GMT -5
Not in my experience. I went on maternity leave. It wasn't paid. I was able to use some vacation time - but that was only a couple of weeks. I didn't say "I took 2 weeks maternity leave and 4 weeks leave without pay." I said "I took 6 weeks off for maternity."
We are all jumping to conclusions. We don't know if this guy is using vacation time, or unpaid leave time or a combination of the two. The real issue is that his work cronies made fun of him for being a Dad. They are assholes, and low class people. If this guy was getting a paycheck or not is irrelevant. The "man-code" appears to be alive and well in Carl's store, and those douchebags are keeping some lame ideals on life support for no reason except they are low quality men who need to make themselves feel big and important by bragging about how unsupportive they were when their wives and girlfriends had babies.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 18, 2024 19:43:49 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2012 16:06:20 GMT -5
I must have duchebag friends. That is exactly what my friends and I would say.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,443
|
Post by thyme4change on Aug 31, 2012 16:07:30 GMT -5
Archie = Summer's Eve
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 18, 2024 19:43:49 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2012 16:21:31 GMT -5
Paternity leave is a good thing, those guys need to grow up. Our policy is we can take up to two weeks of paternity leave. I plan to take all of it when/if I'm ever in that situation. I agree with Phenoix.
|
|
quince
Senior Member
Joined: Sept 23, 2011 17:51:12 GMT -5
Posts: 2,699
|
Post by quince on Aug 31, 2012 16:30:30 GMT -5
My company doesn't have maternity leave.
We have STD- I think 6 weeks is standard for a vaginal delivery- so 1 week unpaid, and our company's policy is a bit more generous than FMLA- so 5 weeks paid, and up to an additional 10 weeks unpaid for a total of 15 weeks. PTO can be used to get paid for the unpaid weeks if you've got it.
I've had to explain to people that while there is a benefit for welcoming a child into a family either through birth or adoption, it is NOT paid for 3+months. I'd probably take 12 weeks, because I don't mind unpaid.
And DH will be taking time off, whether he likes it or not, because it is also his job to care for any offspring he helps produce.
|
|
973beachbum
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,501
|
Post by 973beachbum on Aug 31, 2012 16:32:08 GMT -5
This is why I didn't understand the whole unpaid maternity leave thing. Living in NJ I was used to people getting paid mat leave for at least 10 weeks and then having the company do the unpaid leave thing or vacation if they had it. My old company had a private STD policy for all employees so we didnt' have to go through UI but I know plenty of people who did.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 18, 2024 19:43:49 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2012 16:42:36 GMT -5
We had a pair of married teachers who did this with both of their kids. She took off 12 weeks, and he took off 12 weeks. They covered it with sick leave. They even shared the same long-term sub. Add in summer vacation, and they managed to keep the baby out of daycare for several months.
The Board of Education didn't like it very much so they changed it so that if you are married to another employee, the leave runs concurrently. So the guy can still take 12 weeks (or less), but it's the same time his wife would probably be home.
Everyone now calls it the "John and Mary Doe" rule.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 18, 2024 19:43:49 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2012 16:44:40 GMT -5
This is why I didn't understand the whole unpaid maternity leave thing. Living in NJ I was used to people getting paid mat leave for at least 10 weeks and then having the company do the unpaid leave thing or vacation if they had it. My old company had a private STD policy for all employees so we didnt' have to go through UI but I know plenty of people who did. Btw, NY has it except for state employees who don't pay into the disability fund. Most pay into a state fund, but not all (and you have no choice either way). We had to buy separate disability for my husband who works for the state of NY.
|
|
muttleynfelix
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:32:52 GMT -5
Posts: 9,406
|
Post by muttleynfelix on Aug 31, 2012 21:17:44 GMT -5
This is why I didn't understand the whole unpaid maternity leave thing. Living in NJ I was used to people getting paid mat leave for at least 10 weeks and then having the company do the unpaid leave thing or vacation if they had it. My old company had a private STD policy for all employees so we didnt' have to go through UI but I know plenty of people who did. Well it is state paid disability, not maternity leave exactly. When did 5 states and PR become the majority? In the United States most "paid maternity" leave is paid through STD. Most STD policies specifically say that you have to be on them for 1 year before taking time for a maternity leave. Many also state that you have to use up all of your PTO before they will pay anything and even then there is often a waiting time period and you only get on average 60% of your salary. If you have to pay for the policy yourself (like many of us have to), then you run the numbers to see if it is worth it. When I ran the numbers, it was not worth it all for DS. My PTO renews at the beginning of the year. We have use it or lose it policy. My boss allows me to roll over any unused PTO as a "maternity leave". Last time it only worked out to be a day. This time I might be able to save 2 days. 2013 I get an extra 3 days of leave because I will have reached that length of time with my company. So, I'll probably take a week of paid leave and save the rest of my days so that we can actually visit some relatives in the summer. If I have the baby in December, we can probably afford for me to stay home 4 weeks full time and then go back part time for 2 to 3 weeks. If I have her in January, then I'll more than likely have to start back when she is 3 weeks old and be part time for 2 to 3 weeks. The other factor is how much my DH's medical bills this year will end up costing us. But he is the reason that it makes a difference if I have her in December or January since his deductible has been met for 2012. I don't have the option of unemployment since I won't be unemployed.
|
|
muttleynfelix
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:32:52 GMT -5
Posts: 9,406
|
Post by muttleynfelix on Aug 31, 2012 21:19:09 GMT -5
Also STD policies don't apply to the dads or adoption scenarios. They only come into play if you give birth.
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Aug 31, 2012 23:51:20 GMT -5
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 18, 2024 19:43:49 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2012 6:04:52 GMT -5
As for me, military as well -- I took my whole 6 weeks of maternity leave, both times -- but it sure was a challenge to fit back into my uniform after only 6 weeks! <though my commanding officer did actually call me while I was in the recovery room after giving birth to #1 with a work related (but unnecessary) question.> You're one tough lady! I had DS near the end of the year and when I was due back there were 6 workdays left in the year and I had 4 vacation days. Boss (a great guy) offered to "cover for me" the 2 days but it was a good way to ease back in. I fit back into most of my clothes by then. My mother, who had 5, bragged that she never wore maternity clothes home from the hospital. But to get back to the OP's qustion- yes, it's sad that the culture among his employess is that a guy who stays home for a few days after a new baby is "whipped". He sounds like someone who actually takes being a father and a partner seriously. I hope cawiau can shake some sense into them.
|
|
973beachbum
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,501
|
Post by 973beachbum on Sept 1, 2012 9:46:04 GMT -5
This is why I didn't understand the whole unpaid maternity leave thing. Living in NJ I was used to people getting paid mat leave for at least 10 weeks and then having the company do the unpaid leave thing or vacation if they had it. My old company had a private STD policy for all employees so we didnt' have to go through UI but I know plenty of people who did. Well it is state paid disability, not maternity leave exactly. When did 5 states and PR become the majority? In the United States most "paid maternity" leave is paid through STD. Most STD policies specifically say that you have to be on them for 1 year before taking time for a maternity leave. Many also state that you have to use up all of your PTO before they will pay anything and even then there is often a waiting time period and you only get on average 60% of your salary. If you have to pay for the policy yourself (like many of us have to), then you run the numbers to see if it is worth it. When I ran the numbers, it was not worth it all for DS. My PTO renews at the beginning of the year. We have use it or lose it policy. My boss allows me to roll over any unused PTO as a "maternity leave". Last time it only worked out to be a day. This time I might be able to save 2 days. 2013 I get an extra 3 days of leave because I will have reached that length of time with my company. So, I'll probably take a week of paid leave and save the rest of my days so that we can actually visit some relatives in the summer. If I have the baby in December, we can probably afford for me to stay home 4 weeks full time and then go back part time for 2 to 3 weeks. If I have her in January, then I'll more than likely have to start back when she is 3 weeks old and be part time for 2 to 3 weeks. The other factor is how much my DH's medical bills this year will end up costing us. But he is the reason that it makes a difference if I have her in December or January since his deductible has been met for 2012. I don't have the option of unemployment since I won't be unemployed. When did I say most of the country? I worked for an insurance company for years and I don't understand how someone going out because they can't work anymore during pregnancy, a medical condition, being made to take vacation can possibly jive with treating pregnancy just like any other illness laws. If someone had a heart attack would they have to take vacation days first when they were out because of it? I guess if a company in a state with no UN/D coverage had no sick time or STD for any employee for any medical reason it would be okay, but are there reall that many companies out there really have no medical leave coverage what so ever?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 18, 2024 19:43:49 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2012 9:48:23 GMT -5
I don't know. Being a new mom and home with one child is fine. Having the Other one home with you might be double the work!
|
|
tcu2003
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 31, 2010 15:24:01 GMT -5
Posts: 4,943
|
Post by tcu2003 on Sept 1, 2012 15:58:53 GMT -5
I think dads taking time off when babies are born is fantastic if you can afford it/have the time to do. DH took a week off when DS was born in June, and thanks to a backlog of vacation time he has to use by the middle fo September, he's only been working 4 day weeks all summer (with a few 3 day weeks as well). That's been super helpful to me, as it's nice to know that I'll get DH home an extra day to help each week, or if I could schedule doctor's appointments for me or baby on the day he was off.
My company doens't pay for maternity leave, but if you've signed up for STD and met all the pre-requirements, you can use that. It doesn't kick in for 2 weeks, so you have to use 2 weeks of sick time, then you get 4 or 6 week sof STD (to make 6/8 weeks depending on if you had a c-section or not), and anytime after that (up to 12 weeks max) is unpaid (or paid if you have PTO to use).
|
|
tallguy
Senior Associate
Joined: Apr 2, 2011 19:21:59 GMT -5
Posts: 14,196
|
Post by tallguy on Sept 1, 2012 16:30:04 GMT -5
Thyme - it's probably semantics. When I hear about work "giving time" I think paid time, not what FMLA is which is LWOP. I also think when most people refer to paternity/maternity leave as paid leave. Probably because the majority of people can't afford to take 12 weeks off without pay. Except (pulling statistic out of my ass here) 90% of the paternity leave and maternity leave in this country is UNPAID. In the United States, the vast majority of people have to take time off unpaid - male or female. If the mothers get paid time off, it is usually through STD policies. I'm glad I know that STD stands for short-term disability. Otherwise, I might be really confused. ;D
|
|
TheOtherMe
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 14:40:52 GMT -5
Posts: 27,281
Mini-Profile Name Color: e619e6
|
Post by TheOtherMe on Sept 1, 2012 17:43:56 GMT -5
I think paternity leave is great and for those co-workers who think your co-worker is whipped or whatever, too bad for them. Sounds like this man intends to be a good father and that is what is most important.
|
|
kgb18
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 8:15:23 GMT -5
Posts: 4,904
|
Post by kgb18 on Sept 1, 2012 18:06:57 GMT -5
I work for a very family-friendly company. Most of our employees seem to have adult children or no children, but the dads of younger children here seem to be very involved with their children. To the best of my knowledge, however, none have requested paternity leave.
I know this is YM, so I probably shouldn't say this, but we couldn't afford for me to take maternity leave and for DH to take paternity leave. That would just be too much of a hit. DH took some paid vacation after both of our children were born, but not an extended leave.
|
|
seriousthistime
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 20:27:07 GMT -5
Posts: 4,736
|
Post by seriousthistime on Sept 1, 2012 18:23:33 GMT -5
No thyme, you are not on ignore, but the FMLA does not cover everyone. This is from the Department of Labor website:
"Employees are eligible to take FMLA leave if they have worked for their employer for at least 12 months, and have worked for at least 1,250 hours over the previous 12 months, and work at a location where at least 50 employees are employed by the employer within 75 miles."
So maybe this particular employee hadn't worked for cawiau's employer for 12 months, or didn't work the required number of hours. And it sounds like there are probably 50 employees employed within 75 miles of where cawiau works but the new dad might not have met either of the other two requirements. It may be policy, but we don't know if he met the FMLA requirements. And even if he does, the leave is unpaid, which fits into cawiau's last sentence: maybe he can't afford to take time off without pay.
|
|
Wisconsin Beth
Distinguished Associate
No, we don't walk away. But when we're holding on to something precious, we run.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:59:36 GMT -5
Posts: 30,626
|
Post by Wisconsin Beth on Sept 2, 2012 9:19:33 GMT -5
Carl, is this formal FMLA leave he's taking or just a week off? DH didn't file FMLA for either kid, he just requested VAC/PO time. Here at least, if you want the protections of FMLA, you have to file the paperwork. No paperwork = not FMLA.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 18, 2024 19:43:49 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2012 9:25:34 GMT -5
If dads can take time off and want to, then they should. And, if more and more do it, then it will become the norm. There are always going to be naysayers in life. In reality, you should do what works for you and your family. Women still have stigma as well. I was criticized for taking off the full 12 weeks with my baby because other moms "came back early", well goodie for them. So, no matter what you do, you are going to be criticized either way.
|
|
Phoenix84
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 17, 2011 21:42:35 GMT -5
Posts: 10,056
|
Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 2, 2012 12:34:45 GMT -5
"I guess if a company in a state with no UN/D coverage had no sick time or STD for any employee for any medical reason it would be okay, but are there reall that many companies out there really have no medical leave coverage what so ever?"
Well, in the government, you use your sick leave for maternity leave. If you want to take more time off you can, but it won't be paid. They treat pregnancy like any other medical condition like a heart attack or a borken limb.
|
|
muttleynfelix
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:32:52 GMT -5
Posts: 9,406
|
Post by muttleynfelix on Sept 2, 2012 13:49:39 GMT -5
You said you assumed when someone said leave that it meant paid. Then you gave an example of states that have state disability. I'm probably losing something over the internet, but that is how it came across to me. Sorry if that was not your intention.
I think I'm missing the point of the first part. The second part - I have no sick leave. Everything (21 days including 6 holidays that the office is closed) is just PTO and it is use it or lose it for a calender entire year. DS was born in January and this baby is due New Years Eve. I don't really know if there are that many companies out there like this or not. I think it is 100% standard for the a small consulting engineering firm even on the side of generous. It is certainly better than the place I started my career at where I all I got was 2 weeks vacation after the first year (so I had nothing that first year).
My entire beef is assuming leave is paid for. If you are talking in the united states, odds are that it isn't (obviously it is in every other developed country around the world, but that is another story). I'm not even sure what percentage have STD policies, but I would guess less than 50%.
|
|