mmhmm
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It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
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Post by mmhmm on Aug 21, 2012 13:47:28 GMT -5
Intuition has nothing to do with it. Education and the knowledge of how the body works, as gleaned from that education, coupled with experience is at the root of the decision. Just as we don't need a study to tell us the earth is round, or that it orbits the sun, those of us who have completed said education and enhanced it with experience don't need a study to tell us that which we know to be true.
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Aug 21, 2012 13:51:19 GMT -5
I think Atkins believes abortion is wrong even in grape and is clinging to idiotic things in order to support his position. He should have dodge any abortion questions. But failing that should simply say he thinks abortion is wrong and you should not punish the unborn baby.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 21, 2012 14:07:00 GMT -5
Look at what politicians DO , not what they say. How have they voted? What bills have they passed or been hot to trot about? For Obama, LOOK at his record and THEN interpret his comments. His "You didn't build that" isn't interpreted as people helped you along the way, we help each other but in light of his record and other opinions regarding socialism, big govt and slamming the door shut on business and American ingenuity. ...another for shooby... why? it is utterly false. Obama has lowered taxes, increased business incentives, and put in fewer regulations than Bush. if Shooby REALLY meant what she said, she would IGNORE the rhetoric (like i do), and simply look at the record, which is that of a moderate republican, imo. Obama is about as left wing as Reagan was on most issues, and somewhat right of him on others. but clearly, Shooby is saying one thing and doing another. so are you.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Aug 21, 2012 14:10:45 GMT -5
...another for shooby... why? it is utterly false. Obama has lowered taxes, increased business incentives, and put in fewer regulations than Bush. if Shooby REALLY meant what she said, she would IGNORE the rhetoric (like i do), and simply look at the record, which is that of a moderate republican, imo. Obama is about as left wing as Reagan was on most issues, and somewhat right of him on others. but clearly, Shooby is saying one thing and doing another. so are you. ...okay, then please show me what I've said and done that oppose each other...
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 21, 2012 16:15:33 GMT -5
why? it is utterly false. Obama has lowered taxes, increased business incentives, and put in fewer regulations than Bush. if Shooby REALLY meant what she said, she would IGNORE the rhetoric (like i do), and simply look at the record, which is that of a moderate republican, imo. Obama is about as left wing as Reagan was on most issues, and somewhat right of him on others. but clearly, Shooby is saying one thing and doing another. so are you. ...okay, then please show me what I've said and done that oppose each other... what Shooby said is that Obama's ACTIONS prove he is a socialist, and that therefore, his rhetoric is to be believed. what i pointed out is that Obama's actions prove nothing of the sort. they prove that he is sort of a moderate republican in the mold of Reagan or Clinton. so his rhetoric is actually totally disconnected from his policies. this is actually what Shooby starts out by saying, but ironically, the latter half of her point completely contradicted the first half, and yet you gave her a thumb's up. i asked you why. so....why?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2012 18:02:01 GMT -5
If you want to "spin" Obama as a "moderate" Republican, have at it. He is left wing. Left wing on abortion, gay marriage, and socialist govt central planning.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2012 18:04:45 GMT -5
BTW, what is the REAL outrage over Akins? The fact that you have found out he is Pro Life, even in instances of rape? So are many prolifers. But, everyone knew that anyway so what is the big issue? That he said something you don't like or that it sounded distasteful? Or, are you mad that his information regarding that is wrong, or what?
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Aug 21, 2012 18:05:02 GMT -5
Abortion rights and gay marriage overall I think have majority support. Not sure what socialist govt central planning is supposed to be. Sounds like a made up department for old Soviet Russia.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Aug 21, 2012 18:08:39 GMT -5
My outrage over Akins is he appears to want to blame victims of rape who get pregnant for their condition. I also think he's lying for agenda reasons otherwise he would have named names doctor-wise and explained this mysterious mechanism that is supposed to prevent pregnancy. Not sure if he qualifies as right wing or right wingtip.
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Aug 21, 2012 18:09:36 GMT -5
Faux outrage...Anything to take the spotlight off Obama/Biden.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2012 18:17:26 GMT -5
I assure you, b2r, my outrage is quite genuine.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2012 18:20:03 GMT -5
So, were you equally outraged at Harry Reid's racist comments? Seems like a goose and gander thing regarding hoof in mouth.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2012 18:26:29 GMT -5
However, one can choose not to vote for a politician based on anything. We dont' owe them our allegiance and they have to earn our votes. If they say something that outrages the voters, then the voters have the right to decide what is best for them. For Akins, let the voters of that State decide if they want him or not. He didn't kill anybody. He didn't break any laws. He wasn't out smoking dope, embezzling or cheating on his wife. He said something you don't like in a less than eloquent way. That hardly deserves a public hanging but again, neither is owed any allegiance. And, as a politician, part of his job is knowing how to craft words and speak in ways to get his point across and if he didn't, then he will suffer the consequences of that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2012 18:29:17 GMT -5
Tough to say. I confess, my outrage at the discussion here today may have been slightly elevated by my perceived risk of falling victim to it and my impression of the intent. This was personal to me. Reid's racist comments were certainly racist. I think his intent was not to undermine Obama, but to make a sad observation on the reality of what "electable" looks like in an African American man. Was it racist? Yes. Was I outraged? Yes. At Reid, and at the culture that plants such a thought in his brain. Was I outraged enough for you? I'll leave that for you to decide.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2012 18:31:05 GMT -5
Oh, i get to decide! Cool! ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2012 18:46:14 GMT -5
Don't say I never do anything for you, shooby
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2012 18:48:09 GMT -5
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 21, 2012 19:01:59 GMT -5
If you want to "spin" Obama as a "moderate" Republican, have at it. i didn't say he was a moderate Republican. i said he was a moderate republican.He is left wing. Left wing on abortion, gay marriage, and socialist govt central planning. i disagree fervently that he is for "socialist government planning" in any meaningful sense of the term. as to those other three, most libertarians have no problem with them, so they are not really "left wing" issues. your defense holds about as much water as your original muddled and porous statement.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Aug 21, 2012 19:02:57 GMT -5
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 21, 2012 19:03:52 GMT -5
BTW, what is the REAL outrage over Akins? the fact that he used pseudoscientific mumbo jumbo to defend his position. if he hadn't have said that, he could have just brushed it off as a mistake. it was no mistake.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 21, 2012 19:05:11 GMT -5
Faux outrage...Anything to take the spotlight off Obama/Biden. ironically, there is plenty of reason for Romney and Ryan to be enjoying this little distraction, as well.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 21, 2012 19:06:53 GMT -5
He said something you don't like in a less than eloquent way. That hardly deserves a public hanging but again, neither is owed any allegiance. do you mind if i quote you the next time Obama has a gaffe? but for the record, it was not his gaffe that bugged me. it was his defense of it even before people saw it as a gaffe.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 21, 2012 19:10:41 GMT -5
...for crying out loud... that's what you got? been, you asked why, i answered you. which, incidentally, is more than you did for me.that your opinion of me is that you think what I do and say oppose each other? no quotes that contradict? no, what i said is that i assumed that since you supported the internally contradictory of argument of another that you actually believe and support that argument. if i was wrong about that, i apologize.and I've got over 4k posts to choose from... so it's not like it would be hard to find references... i was commenting about ONE post, not 4000, been. please. i know you love space travel- but let's try to just focus on earthly matters, today....shooby posted several things that I liked... I gave her a thumbsup... big whoop... i just asked you why. ok, fine- so you liked it even though it was self contradictory, illogical, and factually incorrect. got it. at least i know what it takes to win your praise, now.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Aug 21, 2012 19:12:55 GMT -5
So, were you equally outraged at Harry Reid's racist comments? Seems like a goose and gander thing regarding hoof in mouth. I still don't know who Harry Reid is. In any event, his comments only reflect on him and perhaps Obama versus Rep. Akins who is trying to malign a whole category of folks. A bit different to me. I agree with Sarah in that Reid's comments were unfortunate and should not have been said.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Aug 21, 2012 19:16:39 GMT -5
...for crying out loud... that's what you got? been, you asked why, i answered you. which, incidentally, is more than you did for me.that your opinion of me is that you think what I do and say oppose each other? no quotes that contradict? no, what i said is that i assumed that since you supported the internally contradictory of argument of another that you actually believe and support that argument. if i was wrong about that, i apologize.and I've got over 4k posts to choose from... so it's not like it would be hard to find references... i was commenting about ONE post, not 4000, been. please. i know you love space travel- but let's try to just focus on earthly matters, today....shooby posted several things that I liked... I gave her a thumbsup... big whoop... i just asked you why. ok, fine- so you liked it even though it was self contradictory, illogical, and factually incorrect. got it. at least i know what it takes to win your praise, now. ...seems to me that it is you that dodged the question... you claim that I do and say things that contradict themselves... I asked you to show me... as many posters here know, I am more than ready to be refuted/corrected... and I'm usually patient about it, too...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2012 19:22:24 GMT -5
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 21, 2012 19:38:19 GMT -5
i don't have time to eviscerate every one of those. though lord knows i would like to. let's just take the first one. the first one uses "Obama's Cap And Trade" as an example of his socialism. first of all, this is precisely the problem. only a moron would think that cap and trade had ANYTHING to do with socialism. cap and trade is more akin to a barter system. it doesn't imply ANY state ownership of anything, it is simply a regulatory measure- and regulatory measures aren't particularly socialist EITHER. even capitalists think that regulations (to ensure fair, legal activity, for example) are a good idea. so they are misusing the term to ascribe something that is actually a market mechanism to some large boogey man "socialism". it is little wonder that most Americans think Obama is a socialist if he believes in policies that are actually not socialist at all, but that people identify as socialist. but also, this is not Obama's idea. it is another moderate republican idea that has been kicking around for ages. other moderate republicans have proposed it, supported it, given speeches on it, written papers on it, etc. yet, for some reason, when this ends up in Obama's mouth and on his teleprompter, it is socialist. this nation needs better dictionaries to go with their maps.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2012 19:41:51 GMT -5
Well, let' see, if i say Obama is "left wing", then i get posters arguing with me that no he is really right wing. So, i then would say Obama is "right wing", then i would then get oh no Obama is left wing. His record is his record from Obamacare on down. What this has to do with anything, i am not sure.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 21, 2012 19:43:09 GMT -5
...seems to me that it is you that dodged the question... not intentionally, been.you claim that I do and say things that contradict themselves... not really. what i claimed is that you appeared to agree with Shooby's statement. what Shooby said is that it matters what people do, but not really what they say. i am sure you agree with that. i do, as well. but then she also said that what he does is socialist, and what he says is socialist, which is actually a contradiction.
the "doing" i was referring to is supporting a contradictory claim on an open board.I asked you to show me... as many posters here know, I am more than ready to be refuted/corrected... and I'm usually patient about it, too... good. thanks for your patience.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2012 19:46:49 GMT -5
What are you talking about my "contradiction"?
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