NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,255
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 31, 2012 11:46:39 GMT -5
I know here they are addressing the fact that LCs aren't well funded enough to have one on staff and there has currently been no way for them to bill and insurance only covers it as part of post-partum in patient care. At least one hospital chain here has worked it so LCs are available 24/7 no cost to you if you have been a patient at the hospital.
It's been a bigger challenge to encourage all women to BF than hospitals thought, so they are trying to tackle the issue one step at a time.
I don't agree with treating formula like a controlled substance though because there is no evidence whatsoever that formula is dangerous/harmful. I explained in a previous post why biologically "breast is best" but formula is a perfectly acceptable substitute.
Iif the hospital wants to go militant that is their decision, there are tons of other hospitals in NYC that most moms could go to. What I don't like is the mayor sticking his nose in it and trying to legislate what women do with their boobs.
He should butt the hell out unless it is to do mayor-ly type things to make the city more breastfeeding friendly so women will be encouraged to keep it up once they leave the hospital.
But he should get his nose out of my hospital room.
|
|
973beachbum
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,501
|
Post by 973beachbum on Jul 31, 2012 11:47:55 GMT -5
Thyme I think this is a matter of money for the hospitals that don't do a "good job" at this. hospitals by me have been laying off nurses as much as they possible lately. They have as little of them as they can not extra to give support. Having formula in the bottom of the bassinet is way less time and man power that they don't have. The hospital I gave birth at had 2 nurses on staff in the maternity ward at any one time with up to 40 new mom's/and babies. Adding in this will cause a nightmare for both the nurses and moms. Couldn't we just trust the moms once in a while and respect their choice regardless of what they choose?
|
|
raeoflyte
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 15:43:53 GMT -5
Posts: 14,738
|
Post by raeoflyte on Jul 31, 2012 11:49:42 GMT -5
I totally agree that it shouldn't be legislated at all either way. I don't understand why when the country is broke (and according to some going down the toilet) we are spending so much time on stuff like this.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,255
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 31, 2012 11:51:37 GMT -5
Couldn't we just trust the moms once in a while and respect their choice regardless of what they choose?We're too stupid to not drink so many 48 oz sodas that we become obese. What makes you think we are smart enough to make a decision concerning how we feed our babies? Our local hospitals are working very hard to create breastfeeding friendly/supportive environments and I haven't heard a peep about regulating formula. I also haven't seen it as part of any political ads for state/city legistlators. I think ours are too busy actually running the city/state to worry about what I am doing in my house.
|
|
formerroomate99
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 12, 2011 13:33:12 GMT -5
Posts: 7,381
|
Post by formerroomate99 on Jul 31, 2012 11:52:15 GMT -5
I'm still not clear on why it is totally pointless to even try to breastfeed for a couple of days or a week, even if you know you aren't going to do it for a full year? What's the harm in trying it for a couple days (for the normal person - not the post-tramatic raped, anorexic, anti-depressent taking, crack whore with no supply.) Again, if you know you are going to leave the hospital and go into a family or work situation that doesn't mesh with breastfeeding, then it is pointless to get the production going just to shut it down once you leave the hospital. Not all moms get any help whatsoever when they leave the hospital. And harassing them every 2-3 hours for the 2-4 days they are in the hospital pretty much guarantees that they'll return home too exhausted to even care for their infants, much less breastfeed.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,409
|
Post by thyme4change on Jul 31, 2012 11:54:30 GMT -5
See - now we are removing some of the emotion and finding out the real problems - we have hospitals that aren't doing a good job, cutting staff, etc. We have a lack of money (a HUGE motivator for so very many political decisions) and we have an extremely valuable service that isn't currently covered by insurance.
So, the Mayor does something outlandish - to force the hand of the hospitals to improve. Maybe he is also working with the insurance companies trying to stress that in order for the hospitals to follow the law, they must provide certain services - so insurance should cover them.
The story isn't that the Mayor is a jerk who thinks he is smarter than all women. He is trying to get the services women need. The transition will be bumpy. Hopefully when everyone emerges from this, services to women who are on the fence or want to breastfeed will be better and well funded, instead of after-thoughts, and leaving Moms to go in search of their own support network.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,255
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 31, 2012 11:59:56 GMT -5
I think the mayor shouldn't be trying to run everyone's private lives. I understand obesity is a problem, I understand that breastfeeding is a problem but shouldn't he be focusing on running his city? I don't like the idea of my representatives sticking their noses that far into my private life. Ours are tackling the issue without making a big to do over formula and politicians aren't swarming all over trying to pass legislation. I don't see why Bloomberg needs to stick his nose in it and take it as far as he has. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. While yes some good could come out of it do we REALLY want our representatives having this much power over our lives? What is Bloomberg going to try to do next? NYC has alreayd given him the power to monitor their dietary habits, now he wants to monitor breastfeeding. How much more is okay in the name of "good intentions? I need some tinfoil, I've been spending too much time on P&M.
|
|
formerroomate99
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 12, 2011 13:33:12 GMT -5
Posts: 7,381
|
Post by formerroomate99 on Jul 31, 2012 12:05:23 GMT -5
What if Cardiac care unit patients were woken up and lectured on healthy eating every 2-3 hours while they were in the hosptial? Do you think they would heal from surgery faster? Do you think they would get enough sleep? How do you think this would affect their attitude towards healthy eating or the medical profession in general?
And just how does it benefit women to have nurses, most of whom are not trained lactation consultants, doing the lecturing? My hosptial is pretty pro-breastfeeding too, but they only have two lactation consultants on their staff, and I seriously doubt they are wililing to work 12 hours a day 7 days a week. And considering how thin most hospital staff is streached, putting this kind of roadblock in the way of feeding a baby pretty much ensures that a whole host of bad things are going to happen.
|
|
formerroomate99
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 12, 2011 13:33:12 GMT -5
Posts: 7,381
|
Post by formerroomate99 on Jul 31, 2012 12:08:35 GMT -5
Then he should legislate this kind of support rather than harassing women.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,409
|
Post by thyme4change on Jul 31, 2012 12:13:01 GMT -5
Well - I tried to understand the problem and the thought process from a logical and political manner. But, I can see this is just a feeding frenzy, so I'm out of here.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,255
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 31, 2012 12:16:37 GMT -5
My hosptial is pretty pro-breastfeeding too, but they only have two lactation consultants on their staff, and I seriously doubt they are wililing to work 12 hours a day 7 days a week.
That's been a big problem around here too and there isn't exactly a lot of funding going around to pay for more.
I think the Nebraska Medical Center is up to 5 now the last time I heard. They rotate so at least one is on duty at all times. Where the money is coming from I have no idea because the state has cut all funding.
I don't think it is a feeeding frenzy to ask if the "good intentions" of a piece of legislation are worth the repercussions that can come with it. We should ask those questions because they are supposed to represent us and our interests.
Clearly NYC seems to think that it is best for the mayor to regulate these things. I happen to disagree and am very glad I live in a city/state that seems to feel the same way.
|
|
973beachbum
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,501
|
Post by 973beachbum on Jul 31, 2012 13:50:51 GMT -5
I don't have any allusions that they will have any money coming with this law to go to the hospitals to pay for this. The hospitals that are "doing badly" based on those bF statistics aren't not giving people that extra time and attention because they don't care. They literally don't have the time or staff to do it. People said that they needed help in L&D right after the delivery but the nurses didn't help them. The L&D nurses job is to help women who are delivering babies. Once a women delivers they need to help her if she medically needs it but then they have to scoot over to the other women who are delivering. They aren't trying to blow people off they literally just don't have extra people hanging around to talk to people after the delivery. Maternity wards are also WAY different than even twenty years ago. Except for the NICU they don't have any nursery's at all at any hospital around here that I have every heard of. They put the babies in with the mom and she takes care of them. That allowed the hospitals to cut way back on nurses. Less nurses on duty means longer to wait till they answer the call that baby needs a bottle. Then even longer till the person with the key gets over to fill out the forms and gets it out of it's locked cabinet. I actually think this was thought of before this law. They know that after the first couple of times of waiting fifteen minutes to be lectured and then another fifteen minutes waiting for the bottle to come with a baby screaming the whole time that the moms will get frustrated. They think that eventually the moms will just give up asking and just BF the baby. Because we all know how easy it is.
|
|
tcu2003
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 31, 2010 15:24:01 GMT -5
Posts: 4,942
|
Post by tcu2003 on Jul 31, 2012 15:35:59 GMT -5
I delivered at a certified baby-friendly hospital, so they were/are very pro-BFing. They offer free BFing classes before delivery if you want, go over the pros/benefits of BFing in their L&D classes, and do skin-to-skin with baby and mom as soon after delivery as possible (assuming no health complications for mom or baby). They also do not hand out the free formula bags/samples, though if you couldn't nurse/opted not to, then they would provide you with the formula the baby needed. I guess I was lucky in that the hospital had plenty of lactation consultants - there was always at least 1 LC working, 24/7. All baby and maternity ward nurses had to have taken extensive classes/extended ed in lacation/BFing to work in either of those areas, so I had plenty of help when I ran into problems. The hospital also offers a support group to BFing moms (unfortunately, during the day, but I can still take advantage of it while I'm on maternity leave, and there are other support groups that offer evening support groups like La Leche League here), and I can see a LC after I leave the hospital (I'll have to pay for in-person help, at home or the hospital in a consultation room, but they offer free over-the-phone support).
Honestly, I can see pros/cons of locking formula up (flame away, I know). But I do agree that it is a personal decision that every mother should make - not one that should be legislated. More emphasis needs to be placed on increasing the number of baby-friendly hospitals in the US, and having more BFing support for moms both in and out of the hospital. Those things will do far more to increase BFing (at least, until mom has to go back to work) in the US than putting formula under lock and key.
|
|
formerroomate99
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 12, 2011 13:33:12 GMT -5
Posts: 7,381
|
Post by formerroomate99 on Jul 31, 2012 15:50:18 GMT -5
In my neck of the woods, all the hospital maternity wards have nurseries and women who have given birth are strongly encouraged to use them as it will be their last chance to sleep in a very long time.
In my case, that would do no good since my milk doesn't come in for a full 5 days and without formula, the baby would be severely dehydrated before we even left the hospital. I didn't know this with my first one. He was attached to me nursing like a champ pretty much 24/7 until my pediatrician basically ordered me to supplement a few days after he was born. DS was a much happier baby after that.
|
|
Sam_2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 15:42:45 GMT -5
Posts: 12,350
|
Post by Sam_2.0 on Jul 31, 2012 15:54:06 GMT -5
Our ped's office has a FT lactation consultant that we can call at any time, and we can ask to see her when we take the kids in. She's one of their regular nurses too, so she does double duty. They even have a private nursing room for parents to use (with toys for other kiddos you may be waiting with as well). The hospital also offers free BF support classes that meet during the week & on Saturday mornings (I just never went because I couldn't get my act together to get out of the house that early).
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,255
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 31, 2012 15:57:51 GMT -5
I am not against getting rid of promotional formula material (though the extra bag was nice!). I just don't see where it benefits anyone to treat formula like it is a controlled substance. It sounds like extra work for all the nurses involved.
When I was at the hospital they noted on the board whether I was a BF-ing mom or not. All anyone had to do was come in and look at the board. Not that hard and easy to avoid giving/offering formula by mistake. I don't see where adding an extra layer of security really makes that much of a difference.
|
|
econstudent
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 4, 2011 15:36:44 GMT -5
Posts: 2,288
|
Post by econstudent on Jul 31, 2012 19:28:28 GMT -5
I am not against getting rid of promotional formula material (though the extra bag was nice!). I just don't see where it benefits anyone to treat formula like it is a controlled substance. It sounds like extra work for all the nurses involved. It is my understanding that everything at the hospital is "locked up." The last time we were at the hospital, I saw a locked cabinet with bandages, syringes, etc. in it. If the formula is something the hospitals are paying for rather than "free" samples, it makes sense that the hospital would lock it up.
|
|
bean29
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 22:26:57 GMT -5
Posts: 9,934
|
Post by bean29 on Jul 31, 2012 21:19:40 GMT -5
I had DS at about 4 am and checked out that eve. DH dropped me off at home and went out with his friend-who later spent the night. Can you tell I love telling this story!
When Dd was born 3.5 years later I am sure I lasted 24 hours in the hospital. Let me assure you my kids don't seem to suffer from brain damage due to being bottle fed.
Sent from my MB855 using proboards
|
|
formerroomate99
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 12, 2011 13:33:12 GMT -5
Posts: 7,381
|
Post by formerroomate99 on Aug 1, 2012 14:50:58 GMT -5
I am not against getting rid of promotional formula material (though the extra bag was nice!). I just don't see where it benefits anyone to treat formula like it is a controlled substance. It sounds like extra work for all the nurses involved. It is my understanding that everything at the hospital is "locked up." The last time we were at the hospital, I saw a locked cabinet with bandages, syringes, etc. in it. If the formula is something the hospitals are paying for rather than "free" samples, it makes sense that the hospital would lock it up. Baby formula and diapers are not locked up at the hospital where my boys were born. There was a limited supply of both in the basinett in which he was wheeled into my room.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 2, 2024 6:04:20 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2012 19:24:04 GMT -5
Are you saying that because these Moms don't have "support" that they have ceased BF sooner than the La Leche League recommends? I think a part of those statistics are Moms that don't want to BF any longer.Go to any birthboard on babycenter, go to any discussion on breastfeeding and you will find (as a guestimate) over 1/3 of the women did not breastfeed as long as they wanted or had planned. They had supply problems, lack of support, had to go back to work in an unsupportive environment. I have a group of 20 very close friends from Babycenter. We were all planning on TTC or thinking about at the beginning of 2009 and had round 1 of our babies between Oct 2009 and April 2011 (and then May 2011 starrt round 2). They are my mommy support network and we've had some meetups in person even though we are scattered across the country. 12 that I know of did not nurse their babies as long as they had planned. Some weren't able to nurse at all even though they had planned on it. Everything from the inability to latch, supply problems, a nursing strike at 4 months, and going back to work interfered. add in the fact that they then ask their pediatricians for support who not only have no breastfeeding expertise, but often provide bad advice.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 2, 2024 6:04:20 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2012 19:32:47 GMT -5
In my neck of the woods, all the hospital maternity wards have nurseries and women who have given birth are strongly encouraged to use them as it will be their last chance to sleep in a very long time. In my case, that would do no good since my milk doesn't come in for a full 5 days and without formula, the baby would be severely dehydrated before we even left the hospital. I didn't know this with my first one. He was attached to me nursing like a champ pretty much 24/7 until my pediatrician basically ordered me to supplement a few days after he was born. DS was a much happier baby after that. no, the baby was getting colostrum. were you told to check diapers and the fontanel (sp?) on his head? that's how dehydration is determined, not whether or not your milk was in. babies don't need to eat very much in their first few days of life. the reason they nurse so much is to get your milk to come in.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 2, 2024 6:04:20 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2012 10:39:41 GMT -5
My concern with the law is that they treat formula like it should be a regulated substance - it has to be approved for a medical reason, and the reason has to be documented and reported to a health agency. It's infantilizing. Women should be able to choose a method of feeding their baby that fits in with their life, work, and health. Breastmilk has some benefits over formula but formula is good enough nutrition.
Rather than focus on just breastfeeding education I think that new mothers should be taught how to safely formula feed as well and encouraged to find a mix or way of feeding that works for them, rather than it being all or nothing.
Hospitals don't pay for formula - they are free samples from companies hoping you will continue with their brand.
The average maternity leave is 6.5 weeks for those who are unpaid and 10.5 weeks for those who are paid.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,409
|
Post by thyme4change on Aug 8, 2012 10:58:47 GMT -5
And the average hospital stay is 38 hours. So, we aren't talking about a lifetime decision - we are talking about 2 days.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 2, 2024 6:04:20 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2012 11:19:53 GMT -5
So, we aren't talking about a lifetime decision - we are talking about 2 days. I see it as the relatively privileged pushing an agenda on women's bodies and their choice on how to feed.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,409
|
Post by thyme4change on Aug 8, 2012 11:26:22 GMT -5
I agree - but the reality is that they can only control it for a couple of days. They aren't putting in a law that says formula is prescription only for the whole area or anything.
I'm still against it.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 2, 2024 6:04:20 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2012 11:38:23 GMT -5
I agree - but the reality is that they can only control it for a couple of days True. I'm biased because my days in the hospital were hell and would have been better with formula.
|
|
tcu2003
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 31, 2010 15:24:01 GMT -5
Posts: 4,942
|
Post by tcu2003 on Aug 8, 2012 12:39:25 GMT -5
My concern with the law is that they treat formula like it should be a regulated substance - it has to be approved for a medical reason, and the reason has to be documented and reported to a health agency. It's infantilizing. Women should be able to choose a method of feeding their baby that fits in with their life, work, and health. Breastmilk has some benefits over formula but formula is good enough nutrition. Rather than focus on just breastfeeding education I think that new mothers should be taught how to safely formula feed as well and encouraged to find a mix or way of feeding that works for them, rather than it being all or nothing. Hospitals don't pay for formula - they are free samples from companies hoping you will continue with their brand. The average maternity leave is 6.5 weeks for those who are unpaid and 10.5 weeks for those who are paid. There are a number of healthcare groups/providers in the US helping to lead the push to eliminate/reduce the easy availability of formula in hospitals/doctors's offices in the US. The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends 6 months of exclusive breastfeeding, as do other groups. The CDC and US Surgeon General have stated that patients should be protected from commercial infant formula marketing (which is what the free gift bags and stuff are), so the AAP is now advising pediatricians not to provide formula company gift bags, coupons, and handouts in their offices and clinic settings: www2.aap.org/breastfeeding/files/pdf/DivestingfromFormulaMarketinginPediatricCare.pdfpediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2010/04/05/peds.2009-1616.abstract?maxtoshow=&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=melissa+bartick&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCITAll that said, I do agree that there is a place for formula in the feeding of newborns, but why would we want to not do what we can to make it easier for new moms to BF, where and when possible? If BF provides well-documented health benefits over formula, why settle for formula as "good enough" if you have the means and ability for a better option? And no, locking up formula doesn't do that - providing more BF support, lactation consultants, nurse/doctor education, baby-friendly hospitals, and parent education lead to that.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 2, 2024 6:04:20 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2012 14:56:36 GMT -5
I think women don't decide whether or not to formula or breast feed based on free samples. If that were the case then all the free samples the LC's give you of nipple creams, pads, etc. would induce everyone to breastfeed. To me this is another example of women keeping women down. Instead of fighting for more supportive workplaces and longer maternity leave they are reducing a woman's choices (to breastfeed or not) in order to control her behavior. why settle for formula as "good enough" if you have the means and ability for a better option? Breastfeeding's benefits are small and may be outweighed by other considerations - older children, the need to work, the difficulty in breastfeeding, lifestyle restrictions, desire of the father to feed. Also, just because babies can go without food for a few days while the milk comes in it doesn't mean it's comfortable or happy for baby and parents.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 2, 2024 6:04:20 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2012 14:58:41 GMT -5
All women should breastfeed, especially in the hospital.
|
|
formerroomate99
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 12, 2011 13:33:12 GMT -5
Posts: 7,381
|
Post by formerroomate99 on Aug 8, 2012 15:25:37 GMT -5
Because it is as common as dirt for women to have trouble breastfeeding or to have supply issues. Sending mom home with a few free samples ensures that the baby won't starve if mom has issues breastfeeding and can't get to the store.
Breastfeeding is complicated and many women aren't playing with a full deck that first month. Until you can guarantee that all women get the support they need (and most don't) pushing breastfeeding too hard and not giving out samples could easily result in a LOT of dead or damaged babies.
|
|