NYC Mayor wants hosptials to lock up baby formula

[Wisconsin Beth]

Jul 30, 2012 20:36:27 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

I am the only one that thinks Bloomberg may have ulterior motives like reducing WIC since all mothers in "his" city are taugt to breastfeed so only the goo-for-nothing welfare leeches need formula and we should not support that. I like Drama's idea of the fake breast and everything that goes with breastfeeding unclding waking up umpteen times a night and being forced to stay awake for at least 45 minutes each time. And just don't let him off the hook too fast -> he needs to be forced to do this for at least a year . We'll talk again once he has done that

AND he needs to be a productive worker at his job. and pump at work.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

There are many different reasons why babies aren't BF for longer than 3 months, 6 months or longer. Are you saying that because these Moms don't have "support" that they have ceased BF sooner than the La Leche League recommends

Lack of support is an incredible problem. Even with federal mandates most workplaces are not breastfeeding friendly. Technically speaking all they have to do is slap a lock on the bathroom door and tell you "there you go, there is your space to BF"

There is also no reason why they can't make your life miserable and make it impossible for you to pump. You really think Wal-mart would let employees off the floor to pump?

Then LCs at this current time are only available on the post partum ward, once you leave they are not supposed to consult with you because they have no way to bill, they are not a separate service (they are working to change that).

So unless you have a ton of family/friends that BF-ed you have no one to help you if you have issues and even then they aren't experts. My SIL gave me good advice but it was the wrong advice for me, how was I supposed to know?

Then there are no breastfeeding support groups around here that aren't during work hours. I really would have liked to have had someone to talk to and get support from, but there was nothing available.

I stuck with it, but it was incredibly frustrating and lonely a lot of times. I wanted to give up but DH kept reminding me of my goal so I kept going.

There needs to be more support/acceptance of breastfeeding. It shouldn't end with beating on a new mother in the hospital.

That's not right to pressure a woman to BF and then push her out the door without so much as a "good luck".

breastfeeding is a learned skill for both mother and baby. How are you supposed to learn if htere is no one to teach you? How are you supposed to keep going when your job frowns upon it and people freak out when you do it in public?

I get tired of listening to how breast is best but then turn around to find most of society against me. I am tired of hearing how breast is best but no one bothers to tell me how I am supposed to work thru everything.

You want all women to breastfeed then some MAJOR changes have to happen in our society.

[muttleynfelix]

Are you saying that because these Moms don't have "support" that they have ceased BF sooner than the La Leche League recommends? I think a part of those statistics are Moms that don't want to BF any longer.

Go to any birthboard on babycenter, go to any discussion on breastfeeding and you will find (as a guestimate) over 1/3 of the women did not breastfeed as long as they wanted or had planned. They had supply problems, lack of support, had to go back to work in an unsupportive environment. I have a group of 20 very close friends from Babycenter. We were all planning on TTC or thinking about at the beginning of 2009 and had round 1 of our babies between Oct 2009 and April 2011 (and then May 2011 starrt round 2). They are my mommy support network and we've had some meetups in person even though we are scattered across the country. 12 that I know of did not nurse their babies as long as they had planned. Some weren't able to nurse at all even though they had planned on it. Everything from the inability to latch, supply problems, a nursing strike at 4 months, and going back to work interfered.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Instead of trying to bully every single woman into BF-ing, they should be focusing on helping women who want to or are already breastfeeding.

Bloomberg needs to keep his pea brain out of it unless he is creating incentives for workplaces to become more breastfeeding friendly or passing laws to protect women's rights to BF in public.

Locking up formula and browbeating new mothers does nothing to encourage breastfeeding. In fact I bet it'll do the opposite.

I know if I was being brownbeaten like that I'd be so turned off what they wanted me to do as soon as I was out of the hospital I'd be buying a case of formula.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Bloomberg should also have to clusterfeed while wearing his synethic boobs. OMG that kid nursed every half hour to an hour for at least 72 hours. I was so exhausted that when I saw DH sleeping in the chair shirtless I almost put Gwen on his boob so I could have a break.

[973beachbum]

Not to mention (but I will) that the first and only kid is a picnic compared to how I felt with the second! Being up all night and then not being able to sleep when the baby finally decides to sleep because your other child thinks you should take care of them too is really fun!

I worked as a commision only sales person when my DD was little. We all had offices but they had glass windows for walls. they probably would have let me go in the bathroom and pump if I had wanted.

Make no mistake that it would have been a regular old bathroom like you have in your house. The only place to sit would have been on the commode and the only place to put the pump and stuff would have been on the floor.

The real problem is that even if the bosses said no problem take as much time as you want in the only bathroom in the building. The customers wouldn't. I would have essentially decided that I wanted to take a major pay cut. For some reason I thought my family needed money to pay for everything. In these discussions the focus is always on that one family member getting the perfection and no focus on the rest of the family getting anything.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Here in the college there is a meeting room I could have used but only if it was not reserved for someone else. They can't create a room for me here and the women's bathrooms have one commode and no electrical sockets to plug a pump into.

I am lucky that the hospital/college offers lacation rooms all over campus so I chose the nearest one. If I had not had that being able to pump on a consistent schedule would have been a real challenge.

It drove me up a wall when trying to find info on how to juggle breastfeeding and work. Most i got was how to find appropriate nursing work attire and how to discreetly store your milk. I figured that out in the first week. What I struggled with was maintaining the level of production I need ot do the job that I do.

I am still surprised that my job didn't implode. I was floored when during my performance review my boss raved about how good a job I was doing considering I was out of the lab for at least three hours a day and working at what I felt was a snail's pace.

I chuckle now whenever I read "fit breastfeeding into your work schedule". It's more like the opposite. Everything else has to be fit around breastfeeding. It consumed my life. Somehow I made it work but I would not have faulted my bosses if they had felt I was falling short and I am relieved I did not end up in the looney bin.

I don't blame other women who work deciding this is too much to juggle. It annoys me that the breastfeeding nazis refuse to acknowledge the realities of being a working mom and a working mom in America in particular.

[973beachbum]

Drama don't you know that all Americans are independently wealthy or have husbands who make a gazillion dollars so they don't need to work. We just do it for the fun.

Why should women's fun inter fear with their baby's breastfeeding schedule?

And sleeping is for wimps!

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I thought I did it because my husband was a no good lazy mooch who can't be driven to earn enough so I could stay home.

[973beachbum]

DH is an engineer. If he made half as much as YM keeps insisting he must I would be able to be kept in the style I would like to be accustomed to. ;D

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I wish I made as much as YM-ers claim STEM majors do. I must be doing something wrong.

[Sam_2.0]

Jul 31, 2012 10:09:33 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I wish I made as much as YM-ers claim STEM majors do. I must be doing something wrong.

LOL, DH got a degree in Musical Theater. And now he's a broker. If he ends up in the top ranks, he will out earn every YM'er there is (some of those guys make $800k/yr!!!). So much for a STEM major....

But to clarify, he makes nothing now, so I guess they are right.

[thyme4change]

DH is an engineer. If he made half as much as YM keeps insisting he must I would be able to be kept in the style I would like to be accustomed to.

Don't you know you can live really well on $35k per year?

[973beachbum]

Jul 31, 2012 10:44:01 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

DH is an engineer. If he made half as much as YM keeps insisting he must I would be able to be kept in the style I would like to be accustomed to.

Don't you know you can live really well on $35k per year?

Living in a HCOLA too.

[thyme4change]

Just coupon and rinse out baggies and drive a 475 year old car - no problem!

[skubikky]

Jul 31, 2012 8:16:37 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

There are many different reasons why babies aren't BF for longer than 3 months, 6 months or longer. Are you saying that because these Moms don't have "support" that they have ceased BF sooner than the La Leche League recommends

Lack of support is an incredible problem. Even with federal mandates most workplaces are not breastfeeding friendly. Technically speaking all they have to do is slap a lock on the bathroom door and tell you "there you go, there is your space to BF"

There is also no reason why they can't make your life miserable and make it impossible for you to pump. You really think Wal-mart would let employees off the floor to pump?

Then LCs at this current time are only available on the post partum ward, once you leave they are not supposed to consult with you because they have no way to bill, they are not a separate service (they are working to change that).

So unless you have a ton of family/friends that BF-ed you have no one to help you if you have issues and even then they aren't experts. My SIL gave me good advice but it was the wrong advice for me, how was I supposed to know?

Then there are no breastfeeding support groups around here that aren't during work hours. I really would have liked to have had someone to talk to and get support from, but there was nothing available.

I stuck with it, but it was incredibly frustrating and lonely a lot of times. I wanted to give up but DH kept reminding me of my goal so I kept going.

There needs to be more support/acceptance of breastfeeding. It shouldn't end with beating on a new mother in the hospital.

That's not right to pressure a woman to BF and then push her out the door without so much as a "good luck".

breastfeeding is a learned skill for both mother and baby. How are you supposed to learn if htere is no one to teach you? How are you supposed to keep going when your job frowns upon it and people freak out when you do it in public?

I get tired of listening to how breast is best but then turn around to find most of society against me. I am tired of hearing how breast is best but no one bothers to tell me how I am supposed to work thru everything.

You want all women to breastfeed then some MAJOR changes have to happen in our society.

First, whether "all women breastfeed" is not something that I'm gonna go to my elected representative about. That's a privacy issue.

Second, BF is something that I am responsible for, not the US government.

Mine are 23 and 26. BF both and went back to work FT at 10 weeks with #1. I pumped for the first few weeks back to work but was finding that it was exhausting and not working for me. So, used some logic and a few questions to the pediatrician and OB as well as some research and was able to use formula during the day, BF after work and at night and full time on weekends.

It didn't require legislation, it just required some common sense on who to go to. Anyone can start with talking to their Dr. If he/she doesn't know, they can direct the patient to a resource. This can be done in the hospital or during pre-natal visits.

My biggest issue with your statements is that we need to somehow legislate this.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I pumped for the first few weeks back to work but was finding that it was exhausting and not working for me. So, used some logic and a few questions to the pediatrician and OB as well as some research and was able to use formula during the day, BF after work and at night and full time on weekends.

Congratulations, I am glad it worked so well for you and it was easy for you to figure out what to do.

Not all women have that luxury and browbeating them at the hospital is pointless and ineffective if they're not going to follow thru with support after mom leaves the hospital.

[thyme4change]

Not all women have that luxury and browbeating them at the hospital is pointless and ineffective if they're not going to follow thru with support after mom leaves the hospital.

I'm still not clear on why it is totally pointless to even try to breastfeed for a couple of days or a week, even if you know you aren't going to do it for a full year? What's the harm in trying it for a couple days (for the normal person - not the post-tramatic raped, anorexic, anti-depressent taking, crack whore with no supply.)

[skubikky]

Jul 31, 2012 10:57:59 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I pumped for the first few weeks back to work but was finding that it was exhausting and not working for me. So, used some logic and a few questions to the pediatrician and OB as well as some research and was able to use formula during the day, BF after work and at night and full time on weekends.

Congratulations, I am glad it worked so well for you and it was easy for you to figure out what to do.

Not all women have that luxury and browbeating them at the hospital is pointless and ineffective if they're not going to follow thru with support after mom leaves the hospital.

Whoa there pilgrim....you really need to calm down. I don't advocate "browbeating" anyone. And if you go back.....slow now.. and read what I said...I see it as a privacy issue. If someone wants help with BF, then hopefully that information and medical support is there if they don't want it....then they deserve to be left alone.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I don't think there is anything wrong with trying or meeting with the LC in the hospital. What I don't like about it is that it states they are going to lecture mom every time she gets a bottle about how she should really be breastfeeding.

Like Mutt said on P&M you'd have to be living under a rock to have missed the "breast is best" bandwagon so it's not like you haven't already had your fill by the time you pop out the kid. You don't need a nurse coming in every 3 hours to suggest you try it again.

Then I don't like that Bloomberg has stuck his nose in it. He shouldn't have the time to be deciding what I do with my boobs. If he wants to be involved he should be creating incentives that make it worth businesses being more breastfeeding friendly or helping organize breastfeeding clinics around town or stuff like that.

It concerns me that he is trying to legislate what a woman does with her boobs. If a hospital wants to go militant with its policies that is their business, I have a right to not have my kid there. But an elected offical of an entire city should not be trying to legislate what i do with my boobs.

Skubiky, I meant general "you", not you personally. Sorry for the confusion. It just irritates me that so much focus is put on trying to make moms breastfeed but there is hardly any given once you leave the hospital. There is some out there but it isn't easy to get. The LC wasn't even supposed to talk to me once I left the hospital and not all OBs or pedis are knowledable about breastfeeding.

I happen to be very lucky that I have a pedi who is on top of all the latest when it comes to BF-ing. If I didn't have him I'd would have been screwed because there isn't a lot available to me around here that I would not have to leave work and schedule an appointment for.

[973beachbum]

Jul 31, 2012 10:55:06 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Just coupon and rinse out baggies and drive a 475 year old car - no problem!

I basically already do. It still is pretty hard!

My son recently called my car's color "plaid".

[thyme4change]

What I don't like about it is that it states they are going to lecture mom every time she gets a bottle about how she should really be breastfeeding.

2 pages of how we should support women - but asking the hospitals to discuss repeatedly the process with new mothers is horrific.

My son recently called my car's color "plaid".

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

2 pages of how we should support women - but asking the hospitals to discuss repeatedly the process with new mothers is horrific

How is it supportive if a mom chooses to use a bottle to have a nurse argue with you every time she comes in the room?

If you want to, help is and should be available. If you don't want to then that should be supported to.

I have no problems with an LC stopping by and talking to me about it but if I inform them I don't want to it should be noted in my chart and that's the end of it. I shouldn't be lectured for the next 48-72 hours.

[thyme4change]

So, you are saying people stop breastfeeding because they don't get enough support, which includes giving them bottles of formula?

It doesn't say they will argue. I believe the intent is to encourage the mothers to try, and encourage the nurses to enable that. To help. I don't know what your experience was like, but I had to wait 4 hours for the lactation counselor. It would have been easier if (oh I don't know) a POST-PARTUM NURSE was able to give me some advice when the baby was actually hungry.

[973beachbum]

Jul 31, 2012 11:16:58 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

What I don't like about it is that it states they are going to lecture mom every time she gets a bottle about how she should really be breastfeeding.

2 pages of how we should support women - but asking the hospitals to discuss repeatedly the process with new mothers is horrific.

My son recently called my car's color "plaid".

Don't you remember what it felt like after you had just had a baby? I was EXHAUSTED! If every time the baby cried because he was hungry, and it was way more often than every 3 hours, I had to call the nurse, wait 15 minutes for her to get there and then listen to a 20 minutes lecture about something I had already spent 9 months thinking about I would have commited murder right there in the hospital maternity ward.

Unfortunately I would have murdered a nurse instead of the persn whose fault it really was.

[thyme4change]

I remember calling the nurse in and asking her for advice and she answered "If you are having trouble, I'll bring you a bottle." I figured it out for myself. Some 'support' that was.

[973beachbum]

Jul 31, 2012 11:24:43 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

So, you are saying people stop breastfeeding because they don't get enough support, which includes giving them bottles of formula?

It doesn't say they will argue. I believe the intent is to encourage the mothers to try, and encourage the nurses to enable that. To help. I don't know what your experience was like, but I had to wait 4 hours for the lactation counselor. It would have been easier if (oh I don't know) a POST-PARTUM NURSE was able to give me some advice when the baby was actually hungry.

First of all this all assumes a couple of things that you would have no way of knowing in advance. What if the nurse isn't real versed in the problems of breast feeding? Say others are in labor? Should they have to tell the person hold on so they can help you breast feed?

Asking them to ask if a new mother wants help is a far cry in my mind than requiring the formula being locked up like oxycontin and requiring a "medical reason" before being allowed to get the key to get it out, everytime the baby needs to be fed for two days.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I didn't see the LC at all, they only have one on staff where I gave birth and she isn't available on weekends. The nurses gave me advice because it was noted in my chart I planned on BF-ing.

If I hadn't though that would have been noted and I would have been left alone.

My OB and I discussed it up front and she put it in my chart so when I gave birth it was all in there for everyone to see. That way we could get started right away rather than having discussions about what I wanted to do five minutes after she popped out.

I don't know how many OBs and patients think to do that though.


The hospital I gave birth as was very pro-breastfeeding. They don't just give you formula, if you want to breastfeed the encourage you to stick it out. They encourage you to room in so you can have easy access. When she was in the NICU they would page me to come feed her.

They also offer classes as part of their childbirth education classes. Unfortunately they didn't have support groups.

But if I had wanted to formula feed they would have noted that and given me a bottle, no questions asked. I can choose either one I want without having formual under lock/key and having to answer 40 questions as to why I don't want to BF.

Help should and needs to be there during and after if you want to breastfeed, but if you don't and have communicated that then they should back off.

Treating formula like it is a controlled substance and screening me before they will hand over a bottle is ridiculous.

[raeoflyte]

IF this gets passed (and I doubt it will) I think that it will come down to a consent form. Nurse comes in and says, "have you thought about the benefits of breastfeeding, and would you like any additional help, support, info, etc? No, okay, sign here that we had this little chat and I'll be back in 15 minutes with a bottle of formula since I have to find the 1 nurse with a key to get into the fraking cabinet".

I had a TON of bf'ing support that I'm grateful for. The nurses in the delivery room helped ds latch on right away (my arms were so weak I was scared to move them for fear of dropping him). Then a LC came in later that day and the next day to see if I had questions. The hospital ran a support group (during the work week) that I went to on maternity leave, and then I found another smaller group closer to home, and I stayed in touch with the LC and other group members after I went back to work.

[thyme4change]

I don't know how many OBs and patients think to do that though.

Both of mine did.

The hospital I gave birth as was very pro-breastfeeding. They don't just give you formula, if you want to breastfeed the encourage you to stick it out.

I think this is the culture the mayor is trying to create. I don't agree with making it a law, but I understand the intent.

They also offer classes as part of their childbirth education classes.

Mine did too. They were useless and cost extra. The people that likely need them the most, would have been hard pressed to pay the money with a baby on the way.

Help should and needs to be there during and after if you want to breastfeed, but if you don't and have communicated that then they should back off.

I'm really wondering what prompted this. I suspect that the hospitals are not consistently doing a great job and enccouraging breastfeeding, and that is why the mayor decided to act. I just can't see going through this if the situation 'ain't broke.' I would guess that there was an identified problem with some hospitals or a grave inconsistency of some sort and this mandate was a way to try and set the standards higher for all women giving birth at all hospitals. I agree it was badly done, but I really wonder what the problem statement was, what is the intent, why is this really happening. Not the political speak, publicized reason - but the actual reason.