Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,448
|
Post by Firebird on Jul 23, 2012 12:21:57 GMT -5
If I came on here and told everyone how I budget based on my big fat bonus eveyr year you'd all beat me to death and inform me I better not do that because I can't count on getting those every year.
Except it's not the same. Budgeting based on your expected (albeit variable) income is not the same thing as budgeting around a bonus.
Can you live on minimum wage? I couldn't. All the servers I know do it because they know they can count on making more than minimum wage. They may not always make as much as they do in their best week but they can consistently count on SOME amount of money above minimum wage. So budgeting around that number is reasonable, and if you don't get it and it messes you up, that's understandable.
If your "minimum wage" was $200/week but you consistently made $600/week, no one would expect you to budget based on $200/week.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,866
|
Post by zibazinski on Jul 23, 2012 12:23:45 GMT -5
Btw, restaurants never make up your wages to match minimum wage if for some reason you don't make it.
|
|
973beachbum
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,501
|
Post by 973beachbum on Jul 23, 2012 12:25:28 GMT -5
If I came on here and told everyone how I budget based on my big fat bonus eveyr year you'd all beat me to death and inform me I better not do that because I can't count on getting those every year.Except it's not the same. Budgeting based on your expected (albeit variable) income is not the same thing as budgeting around a bonus. Can you live on minimum wage? I couldn't. All the servers I know do it because they know they can count on making more than minimum wage. They may not always make as much as they do in their best week but they can consistently count on SOME amount of money above minimum wage. So budgeting around that number is reasonable, and if you don't get it and it messes you up, that's understandable. If your "minimum wage" was $200/week but you consistently made $600/week, no one would expect you to budget based on $200/week. No one is saying that we are just saying that going from $600 a week avg to $400 one week shouldn't be the total meltdown that it is being made out to be. And for all eveyrone here knows she deserved to be stiffed for being horrible.
|
|
Sum Dum Gai
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 15:39:24 GMT -5
Posts: 19,892
|
Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 23, 2012 12:25:31 GMT -5
No but getting stiffed on a table once in a while is part of the variable income that comes with waiting tables. There's no difference between getting stiffed back to back by two families of four and getting stiffed by one party of 8. Some people are big tippers, some are cheap. That's why servers have a variable income to begin with.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,267
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 23, 2012 12:25:38 GMT -5
I still don't feel sorry for them. You can call me cold hearted if you want but it's really not rocket science. If you are a $70k+ server then I would hope to God you have figured out how ot save for a rainy day by that point.
If you are working places like Village Inn then you probably understand business isn't always booming, some days you'll make above and some days you'll make below. You should be budgeting so it comes out for the most part a wash.
Thinking about it last night I'd be interested to see what the 70k+ guy claims vs what he tells people he makes. I have a feeling he makes that much because a lot of what he earns doesn't ever get reported to the IRS. Extremely common in serving to inflate your wages by reporting the bare minimum and pocketing the cash difference.
|
|
Sum Dum Gai
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 15:39:24 GMT -5
Posts: 19,892
|
Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 23, 2012 12:27:25 GMT -5
If you know any that don't, you should probably have the manager/owner look up the penalties if an employee turns them into the state labor board. Last I looked it was something like a minimum fine of $10k. You'd have to stiff a lot of of your servers on the minimum wage makeup wages to recoup a fine like that.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,866
|
Post by zibazinski on Jul 23, 2012 12:28:38 GMT -5
They would probably just let you go if you didn't make minimum wage.
|
|
Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,448
|
Post by Firebird on Jul 23, 2012 12:29:26 GMT -5
I still don't feel sorry for them. You can call me cold hearted if you want but it's really not rocket science. If you are a $70k+ server then I would hope to God you have figured out how ot save for a rainy day by that point.
Okay, it's not about whether or not you feel sorry for the person. I'm not telling you to feel sorry for anyone. I was just explaining the rationale behind the autograt for large parties because someone ASKED. Whether you agree with it or not, it's in place to protect a server's income because getting stiffed on a large party would otherwise cause a huge hit to their bottom line for that week.
Whether they should have planned for that or whether you feel sorry for them or whether servers are overpaid and entitled and generally suck, all of that is totally irrelevant to my point.
And btw, a lot of restaurants DON'T make up your wages if you don't hit minimum wage. By law they have to, but that doesn't mean it always happens.
ETA: zib beat me to it.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,866
|
Post by zibazinski on Jul 23, 2012 12:30:20 GMT -5
If you are a professional server and intend to make it your career, which some do, You are an idiot if you don't report most of it because your SS will be based on it. The guys I know that are older and work very high end restaurants report all of it.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,267
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 23, 2012 12:30:25 GMT -5
If you know any that don't, you should probably have the manager/owner look up the penalties if an employee turns them into the state labor board. Last I looked it was something like a minimum fine of $10k. You'd have to stiff a lot of of your servers on the minimum wage makeup wages to recoup a fine like that. Most places, especially your $70+ server type places have a POS that directly tracks sales and reported income. If something smelled fishy the system would flag my number. Happens enough another flag goes up signaling that the IRS needs to make a visit and take a look at the books.
|
|
Rocky Mtn Saver
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 9:40:57 GMT -5
Posts: 7,461
|
Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Jul 23, 2012 12:31:12 GMT -5
They would probably just let you go if you didn't make minimum wage. First of all, what on earth would a company benefit from firing someone for making too LITTLE money?? Your statement makes no sense. Second of all, terminating an employee after the fact would not change any fine the business would receive for failing to handle payroll legally.
|
|
Sum Dum Gai
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 15:39:24 GMT -5
Posts: 19,892
|
Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 23, 2012 12:32:37 GMT -5
That actually helps a server more than it hurts them. Assuming they're smart enough to look up "labor lawyer" on the google machines. When your employer knowingly breaks the law by not paying you wages that you're entitled too, you have a pretty slam dunk case.
However, if you've been lying to the IRS about the amount of money you've been making the entire time you've worked there, you're probably too afraid to raise a stink when your employer walks all over you.
|
|
973beachbum
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,501
|
Post by 973beachbum on Jul 23, 2012 12:32:39 GMT -5
I still don't feel sorry for them. You can call me cold hearted if you want but it's really not rocket science. If you are a $70k+ server then I would hope to God you have figured out how ot save for a rainy day by that point.Okay, it's not about whether or not you feel sorry for the person. I'm not telling you to feel sorry for anyone. I was just explaining the rationale behind the autograt for large parties because someone ASKED. Whether you agree with it or not, it's in place to protect a server's income because getting stiffed on a large party would otherwise cause a huge hit to their bottom line for that week. Whether they should have planned for that or whether you feel sorry for them or whether servers are overpaid and entitled and generally suck, all of that is totally irrelevant to my point. And btw, a lot of restaurants DON'T make up your wages if you don't hit minimum wage. By law they have to, but that doesn't mean it always happens. ETA: zib beat me to it. And you still haven't explained it in a way that doesn't COMPLETELY contradict your entire reasoning for tipping in the first place.
|
|
Rocky Mtn Saver
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 9:40:57 GMT -5
Posts: 7,461
|
Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Jul 23, 2012 12:33:07 GMT -5
And btw, a lot of restaurants DON'T make up your wages if you don't hit minimum wage. By law they have to, but that doesn't mean it always happens. ETA: zib beat me to it. But it's not my responsibility to compensate other people's employees myself because their employer doesn't follow payroll laws.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,866
|
Post by zibazinski on Jul 23, 2012 12:33:12 GMT -5
They MIGHT pay you minimum wage but then they would let you go because you are costing them money. They aren't supposed to be paying you a wage, you are supposed to be earning it.
|
|
Rocky Mtn Saver
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 9:40:57 GMT -5
Posts: 7,461
|
Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Jul 23, 2012 12:34:30 GMT -5
They MIGHT pay you minimum wage but then they would let you go because you are costing them money. They aren't supposed to be paying you a wage, you are supposed to be earning it. They are supposed to be paying you a wage. That's what employers do.
|
|
Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,448
|
Post by Firebird on Jul 23, 2012 12:35:32 GMT -5
That actually helps a server more than it hurts them. Assuming they're smart enough to look up "labor lawyer" on the google machines. When your employer knowing breaks the law by not paying you wages that you're entitled too, you have a pretty slam dunk case.
Assuming you know about that law, yeah, I agree. I didn't know about it when I was a server in high school. (And it never mattered because I made well above minimum wage.)
And you still haven't explained it in a way that doesn't COMPLETELY contradict your entire reason for tipping in the first place.
You seem to be operating under the misconception that I totally agree with everything about the tipping system. I don't, and the rationale behind the autograt is not "mine," it just is what it is. This is how restaurants have decided to safeguard the incomes of their servers.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,866
|
Post by zibazinski on Jul 23, 2012 12:36:08 GMT -5
Okay, it's fun to argue about how things ought to be. Fact is, it is what it is. Deal with it. Tipping isn't going away.
|
|
Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,448
|
Post by Firebird on Jul 23, 2012 12:36:17 GMT -5
But it's not my responsibility to compensate other people's employees myself because their employer doesn't follow payroll laws.
Who said it was? Again, you guys seem to be conflating my explanation of a common restaurant practice with my endorsement/agreement of that restaurant practice. I happen to hate the autograt.
|
|
Sum Dum Gai
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 15:39:24 GMT -5
Posts: 19,892
|
Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 23, 2012 12:37:24 GMT -5
Speak for yourself. Now that I know servers in CA get at least $8 an hour, I see no reason to leave a tip. That sounds like a fair wage to me for carrying food to my table.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 4, 2024 4:09:03 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2012 12:38:17 GMT -5
And btw, a lot of restaurants DON'T make up your wages if you don't hit minimum wage. By law they have to, but that doesn't mean it always happens. ETA: zib beat me to it. But it's not my responsibility to compensate other people's employees myself because their employer doesn't follow payroll laws. a thousand times!!!!!
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,866
|
Post by zibazinski on Jul 23, 2012 12:38:30 GMT -5
They make more than 8 an hour. What is CAs minimum wage? Isn't washingtons like $9.90?
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,866
|
Post by zibazinski on Jul 23, 2012 12:39:37 GMT -5
Then don't eat out. Simple as that. You don't like the tipping rules? It's like not liking Walmart. Don't go there.
|
|
Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,448
|
Post by Firebird on Jul 23, 2012 12:44:31 GMT -5
Then don't eat out. Simple as that. You don't like the tipping rules? It's like not liking Walmart. Don't go there. Most people I know aren't crazy about the practice of tipping and I don't particularly like it either. But it IS the current system. Until it changes, if you go out to eat and don't leave a tip because you're trying to make some kind of point about how stupid tipping is, you're a real asshole. The server can't do anything about it any more than you can.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 4, 2024 4:09:03 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2012 12:49:19 GMT -5
Maybe they have a different view of how skills should be rewarded. $70k sounds like an awful lot of money for somebody who's job basically entails writing your order down, getting it to the kitchen, bringing the food to you when it's ready, and keeping your glass full. But they're worth it because they've studied a restaurant menu and can answer questions about it.... uh huh. People spend four years in college studying engineering and don't make $70k when they graduate. I'm just sayin. I never made $70K, nor do I think Drama did. I made about $25000-$35000 a year gross and that with a state they did not have server minimum wage so I made $8/hr on top of tips. And yes, I was worth it for knowing every item in the meal, the best pairing in alcohol with each meal and how to keep my customers happy and coming back. That might mean going above and beyond and my good customers (aka tipped well), got that from me. A customer who always tipped well who came in five minutes after closing, well I can't get the kitchen to reopen to make his salad, but I can reopen my shut down computer system code, and get him to soup he always got. A normal customer, we were closed, sorry.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 4, 2024 4:09:03 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2012 12:54:58 GMT -5
Speak for yourself. Now that I know servers in CA get at least $8 an hour, I see no reason to leave a tip. That sounds like a fair wage to me for carrying food to my table. Except a server has to pay a tip out and tax on money they did not earn if you went there and ate.
|
|
xia
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 3, 2011 9:17:22 GMT -5
Posts: 155
|
Post by xia on Jul 23, 2012 12:56:20 GMT -5
Maybe Europeans have a different standard/expectation of service than we do. When I went to Malayasia people were bitching that the check didn't arrive ASAP. It is because eating is supposed to be relaxing over there. You take your time and enjoy yourself. It is considered extremely rude to bring the check BEFORE the customer asks. Service is also supposed to be very discreet so you are not interupted. People bitched that the servers weren't showing up every five seconds. I figured that out the system pretty fast and had what I considered to be excellent service. I much prefered it over our system here. Everyone else expected to be catered to like they are in America so they thought service in Malayasia sucked. So maybe Europe doesn't suck, maybe we are too big for our britches and assume every other country likes to be waited on the way we do. You know this is a very good point lots of people conveniently ignore when they dog down other countries restaurant's service. Just because majority of Americans like for servers to "hover" and continually ass-kiss doesn't mean it's standard everywhere. White back I had friends visiting from Poland and they found American style of restaurant service offensive. The wife asked me if the server was worried they will steal the silverware or something that she was bothering us at the table every few minutes. According to her servers are to take order and bring it to the table, ask if it was ok and then stay in a background till called by customer at which point they they better be quick getting to the table to find out what the customer needs, but they should never hover, nag, interrupt conversation and pester (her words). While me and my husband were very happy with the overall service her and her husband felt it was one of the worst service they ever had. Anyways just pointing out that it's not fair to say some other country's service sucks without knowing of exactly what is considered "good service" there and say "and that's what will happen here too if servers get real wages". Personally (and maybe I'm naive) I think if servers got paid normal wages the good once will still get good tips because people would still tip for good service but hopefully it would encourage the bad ones to rethink their job choices. But mainly customers would not feel pressured to tip. And yeah some would not tip no matter what but then those same people don't tip or tip very little already so I don't see the difference. Basically I think people would still tip, it would just take the "obligation" and "resentfullness" out of it.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 4, 2024 4:09:03 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2012 12:59:17 GMT -5
xia, I agree with your Polish friends... the waiter should go away until I need something. I hate it when they hover. I can't even talk to the person I'm with without being interrupted mid-breath so I can be asked how my food is before I have even taken ONE bite.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,267
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 23, 2012 13:02:07 GMT -5
They MIGHT pay you minimum wage but then they would let you go because you are costing them money. They aren't supposed to be paying you a wage, you are supposed to be earning it.
Where do you live? I've never worked anywhere that had a problem compensating for when I dipped lower than minimum.
The only time it became an issue was if it was a constant thing and the computer would have flagged me by that point. By that point they got reason to suspect that you are misrepenting what you are earning.
Good owners know the businses is cyclical and you aren't always going to meet your quota every single night and that there will be times they need to compensate you.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,267
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 23, 2012 13:04:26 GMT -5
The wife asked me if the server was worried they will steal the silverware or something that she was bothering us at the table every few minutes I never hovered and I never upsold, which is where the real money comes from. The more you spend, the more most people tip. It is supposed to be my job to get you to jack up the bill as much as possible. We didn't recommend Patron margaritas because we wanted people to experience the best tequlia we had. We were supposed to recommend it because it was $8 a drink. That was $4 more than the house margarita. Which means more money in everyone's pockets except yours. I don't tell you this of course, I make it sound like this is the only way to enhance your dining experience and hope you swallow the bait. Used to drive the managers nuts but I had several customers tell me they appreciated that I didn't pester them to order appeitizers or ask them about dessert, I let them tell me if they wanted it and I answered questions if asked. Otherwise I kept my mouth shut.
|
|