973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jul 23, 2012 9:25:15 GMT -5
Tips were also only on food not drinks and tax and stuff. We went out to dinner recently in a small group. They considered six to be a large group so they tacked on the auto gratuity of 20% on the bottom of the bill. First of all since when did six become a "large group"? And secondly who the heck thinks it is appropiate to charge me a gratuity on sales tax?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 23, 2012 10:03:56 GMT -5
Yup, it used to be a party of 8 or more was automatic but it was also supposed to be because you either had more than one server or your server had fewer tables. Not anymore, your service just sucks.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 23, 2012 10:07:11 GMT -5
But also remember that your 20 per cent tip is already at 17 per cent because the fee for the cc is usually around that amount and the restaurant isn't eating that and paying the full tip amount to your server. Then there's other people to pay out from tip money. I'm not saying they don't do well because they do but it isn't all gravy.
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Peace77
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Post by Peace77 on Jul 23, 2012 10:19:58 GMT -5
Not everyone puts the tip on the CC.
Expecting 18 or 20% is too much for standard service.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Jul 23, 2012 10:44:50 GMT -5
Yeah, the precentage keeps going up. I think 10% is perfectly fine, but seems 20% is the standard most people use. But yes, I just wish they paid their servers minimum wage (or close to it) and charged appropriately for their food. I'm certainly you'll still find plenty of people willing to be servers, just like you do for other hard low wage jobs like retail, and if the server isn't good you fire them and hire someone else. When I helped some friends with setting up a small business, I learned a lot about tipping laws on the company's end. I didn't realize that the laws state that the employer is expected to cover the difference between what the tipped employee receives in actual money with tips and what minimum wage actually is. For example, if you pay the person $5 per hour, and minimum wage is $7.25, the average amount of tips is expected to come to at least that additional $2.25 per hour. If it doesn't, the company is expected to bring the average pay up to minimum wage themselves through payroll. www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs15.htmWhere an employee does not receive sufficient tips to make up the difference between the direct (or cash) wage payment (which must be at least $2.13 per hour) and the minimum wage, the employer must make up the difference.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jul 23, 2012 10:58:10 GMT -5
Rocky, I have known a lot of servers from everything from french fry places to fine dining and I have never heard of anyone who didn't make at least min wage with tips included. Most make way more than that. the only times this comes into play is when some smarta$$ trying to pay the counter person at the local donut shop like they are a tipped server.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 23, 2012 11:02:38 GMT -5
I pay for pretty much everything with a card, and I put the tip on it. I see no reason to get cash before meals just to help servers cheat on their taxes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2012 11:11:45 GMT -5
Someone gently suggested in the comments that people tend to tip less if they're dissatisfied with their server and she came back with a snippy remark about how no one takes money out of YOUR paycheck if YOU have a bad day. *facepalm* I'm not bothering to read the whole thread, but this is what bothers me about our restaurant system. Your employer should be the one responsible for how much you get paid, not me. I think we should do what some European countries do - add a mandatory "gratuity fee" to your bill and be done with it. If you don't like having your pay tied to your performance/service, find a new job.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2012 11:34:10 GMT -5
Someone gently suggested in the comments that people tend to tip less if they're dissatisfied with their server and she came back with a snippy remark about how no one takes money out of YOUR paycheck if YOU have a bad day. *facepalm* I'm not bothering to read the whole thread, but this is what bothers me about our restaurant system. Your employer should be the one responsible for how much you get paid, not me. I think we should do what some European countries do - add a mandatory "gratuity fee" to your bill and be done with it. If you don't like having your pay tied to your performance/service, find a new job. I know a lot of European restaurants have service we Americans would not find acceptable.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jul 23, 2012 11:41:48 GMT -5
:I know a lot of European restaurants have service we Americans would not find acceptable.:
Such as? I'm American, I want my order to be correct, warm when I get it, and I want correct change. I have enough trouble getting that IN America, how can Europe be any worse?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2012 11:43:09 GMT -5
"And why also is the expected tipping percentage continually increasing? I remember when it was 10%, and it was likely lower before that. Then it went to 15%. Now it is 20% (supposedly changed from 15% because the American consumer was too stupid to calculate 15%) and I hear arguments for and people bragging about paying 25%. Stupid." Yeah, the precentage keeps going up. I think 10% is perfectly fine, but seems 20% is the standard most people use. But yes, I just wish they paid their servers minimum wage (or close to it) and charged appropriately for their food. I'm certainly you'll still find plenty of people willing to be servers, just like you do for other hard low wage jobs like retail, and if the server isn't good you fire them and hire someone else. Sorry, Phoenix - 15% or more has been the standard since the 80s. Since you are a young adult, I feel confident saying that you have never paid a restaurant tab where 10% was an acceptable tip. You don't have to like the system - heck, I don't like the system. But you have to play along within the system or be perceived as cheap. (I'm sending you some tough love because you have commented before about looking for women to date, and being a cheap tipper can push an otherwise lovely gentleman out of the running for a second date for a lot of women)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2012 11:45:15 GMT -5
:I know a lot of European restaurants have service we Americans would not find acceptable.: Such as? I'm American, I want my order to be correct, warm when I get it, and I want correct change. I have enough trouble getting that IN America, how can Europe be any worse? Seriously!
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 23, 2012 11:46:31 GMT -5
No kidding. I'd be mortified if my date didn't tip decently. I'd sneak more if I could. DF is a LOUSY tipper which just pisses me off. What is it with rich people being so tight for those who work for a living? Now, on the other hand, I won't leave a dime for lousy service.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 23, 2012 11:47:09 GMT -5
Maybe Europeans have a different standard/expectation of service than we do.
When I went to Malayasia people were bitching that the check didn't arrive ASAP. It is because eating is supposed to be relaxing over there. You take your time and enjoy yourself. It is considered extremely rude to bring the check BEFORE the customer asks.
Service is also supposed to be very discreet so you are not interupted. People bitched that the servers weren't showing up every five seconds.
I figured that out the system pretty fast and had what I considered to be excellent service. I much prefered it over our system here.
Everyone else expected to be catered to like they are in America so they thought service in Malayasia sucked.
So maybe Europe doesn't suck, maybe we are too big for our britches and assume every other country likes to be waited on the way we do.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Jul 23, 2012 11:52:23 GMT -5
I think it is really interesting that if we shop at Walmart to get the cheapest prices (which means low wages for employees) we don't feel culpability about the result and basically tell the employee to "go find a better job." But if the scenario is a restaurant, being cheap is immoral/embarrassing. Why the difference? Does the extra layer in the relationship (customer -> employer -> employee vs customer -> employee) really make that much of a difference in our minds when it comes to pay?
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 23, 2012 11:54:16 GMT -5
Dark Honor VERSUS Firebird! Geeeet rrreeaddy to RRRRRUmmmmmbbbbllleee!
Those would be great names for the WWF!I missed the mommy war! What thread was that? The cosleeping one. It got a little ugly there for awhile. I can't stand when a gratuity is automatically added to your bill. Is a tip voluntary or not? Is it a required charge or not? If not, how can they just automatically add it to a party of 6 or more? If they want to put add a required surcharge, fine. But, adding a gratuity is just a bit sleazy to me. It's usually only for large parties. If a big party happens to stiff a waiter on the tip, that can mean they basically work the whole night for free. Not cool. The autograt is a way of ensuring that doesn't happen. I do a knowledge based job now. It's way way easier than the couple days I spent working with a concrete/asphalt crew. It takes a lot longer to get the knowledge you need to do my job than it does to learn to tie rebar, but I work a lot less hard on a daily basis now that I have that knowledge. Yeah but you make a lot more money. People will pay a lot for knowledge; that's why your desk jobs tend to make more than your physical jobs. If you're arguing that desk jobs are not hard work, I'd argue that's not really the point. Our society has decided that mental skills are more valuable than physical skills. Which one is harder really has very little to do with what people value. (I'm sending you some tough love because you have commented before about looking for women to date, and being a cheap tipper can push an otherwise lovely gentleman out of the running for a second date for a lot of women)This is true. As much as we all hate tipping, it currently IS how the servers make the bulk of their money. When you stiff them on tips, you're really screwing them over.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 23, 2012 11:54:44 GMT -5
I've had people tell me it si becuase they are afraid that the servers will mess up their food on purpose if they don't tip really well.
Which is an urban myth. I usually respond that if they are that paranoid about people messing with their food then the people they show be tipping are the cooks. The cooks can do way more damage than a server can since they are the ones that control your meal from step one to the time it gets into my hands.
By the time I got it there were tons of eyes on me (bartender, manager, cooks, busboys, other customers), there aren't any eyes on the cooks besides other cooks.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2012 11:55:12 GMT -5
actually, I'd tell the Walmart person the same thing - if you don't like the way things are, get a new job. And I HATE Walmart!!!!
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 23, 2012 11:55:41 GMT -5
Maybe they have a different view of how skills should be rewarded. $70k sounds like an awful lot of money for somebody who's job basically entails writing your order down, getting it to the kitchen, bringing the food to you when it's ready, and keeping your glass full. But they're worth it because they've studied a restaurant menu and can answer questions about it.... uh huh. People spend four years in college studying engineering and don't make $70k when they graduate. I'm just sayin.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 23, 2012 11:56:38 GMT -5
If a big party happens to stiff a waiter on the tip, that can mean they basically work the whole night for free
No they don't, if the big party stiffing them results in less than mimimum wage the resturant must make up the difference.
Where does this urban myth come from? What part of they can't pay you less than minimum don't people understand?
Either I got in the form of tips or I got it in my paycheck. Either way I never worked for "free" or $2.75/hr.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2012 11:58:24 GMT -5
just pay the servers a decent wage, raise the food prices, and do away with tips. Simple, no?
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Colleenz
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Post by Colleenz on Jul 23, 2012 12:01:21 GMT -5
Are you supposed to tip when you get carry out from. Restaurant? I always thought no, because you are not really being served, but most seem to have tip jars out on the counter now. Am I being cheap?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2012 12:02:25 GMT -5
hell no - I don't tip on takeout!
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 23, 2012 12:04:38 GMT -5
Nope. Why would I tip for that? It is no different than getting food from the drive-thru.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 23, 2012 12:08:15 GMT -5
Where does this urban myth come from? What part of they can't pay you less than minimum don't people understand?
Um, I *do* understand it and I've mentioned this little factoid myself not only on this thread but basically every time the discussion comes up. However, if you have a party of ten and you expect to make about $200 in tip from that table, and they don't tip you anything, then there is going to be a REALLY huge honking difference in your nightly take home between minimum wage and what you expected to be getting for your night's work.
No server I know actually makes minimum wage. Most of them make considerably more. So if you're used to making considerably more than minimum wage and one night you just arbitrarily don't, then yeah it can mess you up. Most of us would be pretty upset if our paychecks went from whatever we make now to minimum wage one week.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jul 23, 2012 12:14:44 GMT -5
I find it funny that all the reasons people are fighting tooth and nail to keep tipping, completely change their tune when it comes to auto gratuities on parties of six. so which is it? Is the tipping really necessary to get good service or should they get it no matter what?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 23, 2012 12:15:40 GMT -5
However, if you have a party of ten and you expect to make about $200 in tip from that table, and they don't tip you anything, then there is going to be a REALLY huge honking difference in your nightly take home between minimum wage and what you expected to be getting for your night's work. You make it back in your paycheck. WHich I recieved weekly. If I got the big table on Monday all I had to do was wait till Thursday to get my paycheck and the differnece would be in there. If I can't make it till Thursday without the money then I have bigger problems than someone not tipping me. Which is a very common problem among servers. I listened to someone bitch about not getting enough in tips to pay her rent, but then was showing off the $300 purse she just bought after her last big tip night. But yeah, it is the customers who screwed her out of rent money. Whatever.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 23, 2012 12:17:59 GMT -5
You make it back in your paycheck. WHich I recieved weekly. If I got the big table on Monday all I had to do was wait till Thursday to get my paycheck and the differnece would be in there.
It wouldn't be the difference between what you should have received in tip and what you got, it would be the difference between minimum wage and however far under it you were. Big difference. The restaurants do not make up your tips beyond what it takes to get you to minimum wage.
Whether or not a server can "handle" it is not the issue. Totally irrelevant.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 23, 2012 12:18:50 GMT -5
So if you're used to making considerably more than minimum wage and one night you just arbitrarily don't, then yeah it can mess you up
If I came on here and told everyone how I budget based on my big fat bonus eveyr year you'd all beat me to death and inform me I better not do that because I can't count on getting those every year.
But if a server constantly budgets on inflated tips that's all right and perfectly acceptable. Instead of realizing that it's a cyclical business and some nights are good, some nights are bad so you better save for the bad ones.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 23, 2012 12:19:41 GMT -5
It wouldn't be the difference between what you should have received in tip and what you got, it would be the difference between minimum wage and however far under it you were.
Excuse me if I don't feel sorry for a person who can't budget well enough to survive if one big table stiffs them.
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