Whose dog is it?

[Abby Normal]

I'm curious what you all think about this situation. Lawsuits are now in progress.

Sam Hanson-Fleming was overjoyed two months ago when he spotted the dog he'd lost more than a year ago.

Hanson-Fleming was waiting in line at Dutch Bros. Coffee on Southeast Division Street in Portland when he saw Chase -- a 2 1/2-year-old husky-shepherd mix -- sitting in a car idling behind him. Hanson-Fleming ran up to an open window and exclaimed "Chase!"

"Chase instantly jumped out of the car and into my arms," Hanson-Fleming said. "He was licking me and loving me -- all excited like he gets."

Hanson-Fleming could see that the driver of the car -- Jordan Biggs, a 20-year-old Oregon State University student -- was attached to the dog she found in spring 2011. So Hanson-Fleming, 30, agreed to let her and her family say their good-byes, then meet up with him later in the week to return the dog. But Hanson-Fleming's elation turned to despair when Biggs two days later told Hanson-Fleming she wouldn't be giving him back.

Hanson-Fleming told her he was calling police. She hung up the phone, and cut off all contact.

For full artilce with more information.

www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/07/southeast_portland_man_loses_d.html


So, who do you think should get custody of the dog?

[hoops902]

It's Sam's dog, so I think Sam should get custody.

[kittensaver]

On a practical/legal level, I think he's probably SOL unless the dog has a microchip proving ownership . . .

[Opti]

I think he should get the dog and get her to pay his attorney fees.

[mollyanna58]

He probably has photos. If the dog is distinctive enough, that could be sufficient proof.

It's a difficult decision. The dog has undoubtedly bonded with the new family but still remembers and loves the original owner. I just hope this can be resolved without costing everyone a lot of pain, time, and money.

[CarolinaKat]

PSA: Cough up for the Microchip

[Abby Normal]

I'm curious about his "service dog" status. To my knowledge, service dogs are normally raised from puppies then placed with a family. It's not normally something you take a dog and train him to do later. Not saying it can't be done, but I'm wondering if it happened here. Not to mention, is asthma considered a disability? I know service animals are used for people with seizures, but I have not heard of them used for asthma.

[Opti]

Jul 12, 2012 12:41:04 GMT -5 Abby Normal said:

I'm curious about his "service dog" status. To my knowledge, service dogs are normally raised from puppies then placed with a family. It's not normally something you take a dog and train him to do later. Not saying it can't be done, but I'm wondering if it happened here. Not to mention, is asthma considered a disability? I know service animals are used for people with seizures, but I have not heard of them used for asthma.

If you read the article the original owner is questioning that assertion on the basis she took a trip that the dog should be in the pictures if he really was a service animal because of her asthma. If her asthma is that bad I question why she ever went on the trip.

[zibazinski]

Why? EX had asthma and he went on trips, even skied.

[hoops902]

Jul 12, 2012 12:58:25 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Why? EX had asthma and he went on trips, even skied.

But then it's not much of a "service dog" if you can do that without your dog there.

[thyme4change]

Millions of homeless dogs across the country, and people have to fight over specific ones.

[zibazinski]

People take their service dogs everywhere.

[hoops902]

Jul 12, 2012 12:59:53 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Millions of homeless dogs across the country, and people have to fight over specific ones.

Millions of parentless children across the world and people have to fight over specific ones.

[zibazinski]

It's probably not her dog but i don't think the guy will get it back.

[hoops902]

Jul 12, 2012 13:00:37 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

People take their service dogs everywhere.

Right, and she claims to have asthma, and that the dog is a service dog for her, and she seems to have gone on a trip without it.

That's what the "why even go on a trip if your asthma is that bad" comment came from.

[thyme4change]

Millions of parentless children across the world and people have to fight over specific ones.

I knew someone was going to say that.

You are correct, I will fight for the two that shot down my *****.

[swamp]

Jul 12, 2012 13:02:08 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Jul 12, 2012 13:00:37 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

People take their service dogs everywhere.

Right, and she claims to have asthma, and that the dog is a service dog for her, and she seems to have gone on a trip without it.

That's what the "why even go on a trip if your asthma is that bad" comment came from.

Why have a dog if you have asthma, just sayin'...........

[Opti]

Thanks Thyme. Now WWBG will want to lock this thread.

[Deleted]

THYME!!!!

[shanendoah]

I think it's his dog. He has the proof that he followed all the protocols when the dog became lost. It is not negligence to have your dog suddenly escape from you yard. We had been in our home for over 6 months before our Aussie suddenly decided he was going to dig out. If the dog had never jumped the fence before, there's no way the owner could have known it would happen.

We once found a dog in a parking lot in the middle of winter. As we were loading him into our car, some people came by and said they thought the recognized him and told us what house they thought he belonged to. He gout out because of a winter storm. He was wearing a collar, but his tags had somehow come off. That winter storm kept his owners from getting home for a few days, but we did finally make contact.
We filed all the found dog reports with the humane society and contacted the paper about putting a found animal (they are free) note in the paper.
If this girl really did everything she claims to have done, then I think it's very unlikely that the dog wouldn't have been reunited with it's rightful owner two years ago. (Again, up to this point, he's shown proof of his actions, she hasn't shown proof of hers.)

Now, it is very possible that the dog has been trained as a service animal. This is becoming more and more common. For things like leading the blind or search and rescue, yes, a dog needs to be trained from puppyhood. But for sensing an oncoming asthma attack and giving a signal, not so much. I will say, I've never heard of a dog trained to indicate asthma attacks, but I've heard of ones that warn of low blood sugar for diabetics, oncoming seizures for epileptics, and I've met a former shelter dog who was trained to warn her owner of oncoming heart attacks or strokes.
However, if you have a condition severe enough that you need a service dog, then it's unlikely, in my mind, that you would take a trip where the chances of having an asthma attack are rather increased, without the dog. (I say increased because the strenuous activity of hiking, and the variety of allergens found in the mountains are common asthma attack triggers.)

I think it's sad for the girl, but I do think the man and his family are the rightful owners. And in all honesty, I think the fact that she didn't participate in the original non-court fact finding inquiry to be the most damning evidence. She retained a lawyer, didn't cooperate with the ordered process, and then filed a lawsuit. That, to me, speaks volumes.

[kittensaver]

Shanendoah - we both know you're right, but there's that little cliche out there about possession being 9/10th of the law . . .

[Deleted]

I'm wondering if the dog is really a "service dog" or if "fetch my inhaler" is a trick it knows.

[shanendoah]

I will add that the joy of adopting shelter dogs is that they won't let them go home with you without being micro-chipped- because if the dog gets lost, the shelter doesn't want it back.
Even our foster dog is micro-chipped, with the chip registered to the rescue. If he were to get lost and found, the rescue would be called and they'd call me. Of course, if the family that found him wanted to adopt him, that would be great, but we'd want to make sure they were fully aware of his health issues first, so that he didn't end up back in another shelter. (My poor Howie does NOT do well in a shelter environment.)

[shanendoah]

And, I'd be very worried if my Beagle slipped her collar and got out. She's a Beagle- beyond adorable and super sweet -so not the type of dog some people would look super hard for the owner for.

[973beachbum]

This is one of those stories that there is no real winner. But from my point of view as long as the person who has taken care of the dog didn't steal the dog, and the former owner has records to prove he did lose the dog and tried to get him back, I would give the old owner back his dog as long as he pays the other families expenses for taking care of the dog for the year.

If the theory is that the dog was the guys dog all along then he should have to pay that family all expenses they paid to take care of it for him. Fair is fair in my mind. If he isn't willing to pay their expenses then he doesn't really want the do In my mind.

[Abby Normal]

I would agree beach- if she had adoption records or could prove that she searched for the owner, that he should be willing to pay for basic care she provided. But, if she can't prove any of that and she just kept the dog she found- I don't think he should have to reimburse her. Plus I think he should be able to counter sue for damages to his kids if it's true she agreed to give the dog back and then changed her mind. I know my kids would be heart broken- twice.

But he was a bit of an asshat for not having him chipped. Husky owners should know they like to wander.

[973beachbum]

Jul 12, 2012 14:20:40 GMT -5 Abby Normal said:

I would agree beach- if she had adoption records or could prove that she searched for the owner, that he should be willing to pay for basic care she provided. But, if she can't prove any of that and she just kept the dog she found- I don't think he should have to reimburse her. Plus I think he should be able to counter sue for damages to his kids if it's true she agreed to give the dog back and then changed her mind. I know my kids would be heart broken- twice.

But he was a bit of an asshat for not having him chipped. Husky owners should know they like to wander.

What records would they have? I have found dogs that were wandering around. I called the animal shelters but other than that what was I supposed to do? I wasn't going to put an ad in the paper. I would think if he was really looking HE would have put the ad in the paper plus maybe some fliers etc.

I have seen a lot of stray dogs and very rarely is anyone actually looking for them IMO. It should be the person who is claiming they want "their" dog back after a year with the burden of proof dumped on them not the person who took the dog in and took good care of them.

Otherwise people will just them off at the pound and let them be euthanized. Is that really what people want?

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I have seen a lot of stray dogs and very rarely is anyone actually looking for them IMO. It should be the person who is claiming they want "their" dog back after a year with the burden of proof dumped on them not the person who took the dog in and took good care of them.



We've had our Aussie now for 6 years, she showed up underneath my car one day. We put an ad in the paper, put an ad at the local ice cream shop and we took hre to the pound to be scanned (no chip) and left a report.

No one claimed her. If someone showed up on my doorstep today saying she was their dog there is no way in hell I would give her back without that person providing me a mountain of proof.

We had her microchipped, according to the rules she's ours as far as the state is concerned. We made sure to clear that with the vet and the county before we proceeded with it.

I also have a hard time swallowing how she knew it was her dog. My Aussie is very friendly, if you are friendly back she will act like she has known you her entire life. I would be skeptical if someone claimed "Well she was lickng my face and wagging her tail" as proof they were her owner.

After a year I lean towards it being the college student's dog. It's a shame all the way around but he's the dog's family now. If you really really missed her that bad why has it taken you a year to find the dog?

[Abby Normal]

He did place fliers, place an ad on craigslist, notified area shelters and stayed in contact with them for 5 months before giving up.

She found the dog 6 blocks from where he jumped the fence. By county law, she was required to file a found dog report with the shelters and place an ad for two weeks. Then after 180 days, she can claim ownership. In the preliminary finding, she didn't/couldn't/wouldn't provide any documentation that this was done. I would assume (but maybe they didn't) that the animal service guy who had the job of deciding would have checked newspaper and shelter records.

[shanendoah]

If you read the article, the original owner did put an ad on Craig's List, did post flyers, did report the animal missing to animal control - and he has proof that he did all of those things. For 5 months, he continued to call animal control weekly to find out if somone had brought in his dog or reported a found dog that matched his dog's description.

It took 2 years for him to find his dog again because the young woman who found the dog didn't actually look for it's owners. She claims she did, but unlike the original owner, she has provided no proof of her efforts. Instead, she refused to cooperate with the investigation and then filed a law suit.