zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 9, 2012 13:57:20 GMT -5
Hit the overhead.
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moxie
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Post by moxie on Jul 9, 2012 13:58:00 GMT -5
And what do you do with lil old folks who suffer from flatulence...stick them in the way back bathroom area?
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milee
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Post by milee on Jul 9, 2012 13:58:17 GMT -5
Definitely airlines should post information on their websites disclosing not only the policy, but the standard width of seats and length of belts to help people avoid potential humiliation.
As for how to accommodate, that's a hard issue. When you talk about the friend with the broken leg, I don't think there is any way an airline would have allowed him/her to fly if the leg had to stick out into the aisle. It's a safety issue at that point - the aisles are narrow enough and need to be able to be cleared for flight crews to maneuver and (hope this never happens, but need to be prepared) evacuations. I think it would be a similar risk if a person were large enough that part of his/her body spilled into the aisle and couldn't be pulled back into the seating area.
I see both sides of this. With many obese people in my family, the last thing I'd want is to purposefully humiliate them or anyone else. On the other hand, their choice to be obese (and for my family members, like 95% of other obese people it is unfortunately a choice) shouldn't give them the right to encroach on other people's personal space.
And as awful as it sounds, people with mobility issues - be they a broken leg or obesity - scare me a little on a plane. I'm not thrilled to fly anyway and am one of those people that takes a minute to see where the exits are and think about how I'd get myself and my kids out. The idea that we might get stuck behind or in our seats beside an obese person or a person with a broken leg does worry me. I know - I'm going to hell.
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moxie
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Post by moxie on Jul 9, 2012 13:58:48 GMT -5
My hubby is tall and tries to get the row with the extra leg room whenever possible.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jul 9, 2012 14:00:12 GMT -5
I'm thinking if you are sitting down, you don't heat the overhead. As far as their legs, they must have figured out a way by now because I'm sure they've been tall for a very long time. Plus, as per the southwest website, legs & shoulders are much easier to rearrange & move around than are hips/butt/belly. A person with long legs can generally pull them in although it may be really uncomfortable. A person with large enough hips is not going to be able to shift that out of the adjacent seat. My dad is 6'5" & generally always sits aisle & tries to get the emergency row. Not sure what he would do if he got stuck in a center or window seat.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jul 9, 2012 14:02:15 GMT -5
HAHA!! I'm flying with the kiddos to CA next month. It might be a nice plane trip if someone else has to sit next to my 4 yr old & 22 month old. I bet they will be willing to let me trade seats to sit with my kids. I'm not going to pay extra for that opportunity. I said the same thing a few months ago. WWBG got testy and threatened that if my kids were seated next to him, he'd feed them junk and show them Japanese Manga Porn. I told him to go right ahead, a few hours plane ride by myself is a luxury worth making a few tradeoffs for.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 9, 2012 14:04:02 GMT -5
What you are consistently saying is that people who are large shouldn't have to endure the "humiliation" of having to either acknowledge to themselves that they are large and buy 2 seats, or when they neglect to do so, someone else having to inform them of the fact that they don't fit into a seat and will need 2.
Actually, what I'm consistently pointing out is how silly and hypocritical it is to make people buy two seats if they're large, but NOT if they need an extra seat for a broken leg, or for a kid's 10,000 toys, or they have a disability that means they might wave their arms during flight and encroach on someone else's space.
In other words, there are plenty of reasons why you might be less than 100% comfy because of your seatmate. Yet we only charge people for an extra seat for ONE of those reasons.
As I've said repeatedly, I do understand it's a problem. I don't want to be squished up against anyone during a flight either, obese or not. But I don't think this is the best solution. That's all.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2012 14:06:07 GMT -5
And what do you do with lil old folks who suffer from flatulence...stick them in the way back bathroom area? You supply them with vacuum hoses to help reduce fuel costs for the planes. (Sorry, this whole thread is just cracking me up)
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 9, 2012 14:06:35 GMT -5
Someone better not being flailing their arms at me during a flight or there is going to be a real problem. I don't give a damn what your excuse is. Stay outa my space, period.
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moxie
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Post by moxie on Jul 9, 2012 14:09:32 GMT -5
"You supply them with vacuum hoses to help reduce fuel costs for the planes. (Sorry, this whole thread is just cracking me up)."
Hahahaha! ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2012 14:10:34 GMT -5
I've never had a kid put their stuff in my space. Normally they are seated by their parents and take over that space. And people with arm waving disablities are usually travelling with a companion that they inconvenience. Crying kids can be blocked out with ear phones which the airline will kindly sell me for $3 and I have never seen someone with a broken leg on a plane. I complain about obese people squashing me because it has happened, more than once. I haven't dealt with most of your examples. I'm guessing most people haven't. Except the crying kid thing. If I could buy something for $3 that would solve the obese person squashing me problem I would. But I can't.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2012 14:11:02 GMT -5
I just killed a very weird 10 minutes reading about travel by cargo ship. What's the verdict? The accomodations seem pretty nice. You get an upper deck room with a window (but the window may be blocked by the containers), 3 meals per day, and you typically get to dine/drink with the captain. Apparently, 12 passengers is the cut off, otherwise they have to have a doctor on board. Prices seemed to range from $90-$120 per day, which isn't bad for room and board with an ocean view. You probably need to plan on at least a month to get to Europe or Asia. Some of the trips were 3-4 month, around the world type deals. I'm not sure how easy it is to get a cab from the docks on the outskirts of town to the parts of a city that you would actually want to see, but it actually looked kind of fun if you were a retiree or someone with a lot of time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2012 14:11:02 GMT -5
fart plane?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2012 14:11:41 GMT -5
"Actually, what I'm consistently pointing out is how silly and hypocritical it is to make people buy two seats if they're large, but NOT if they need an extra seat for a broken leg, or for a kid's 10,000 toys, or they have a disability that means they might wave their arms during flight and encroach on someone else's space.
In other words, there are plenty of reasons why you might be less than 100% comfy because of your seatmate. Yet we only charge people for an extra seat for ONE of those reasons. "
As somebody else pointed out, a broken leg on a plane is rare but there can be several obese people on a plane. If the kid has too many toys, you tell his mom/dad and the problem can be solved. If a person is too big, there is no solution but to have more space. if they haven't purchase the extra space, it will not appear out of thin air. How often do you run into a disability that makes someone constantly wave their arms around?? Comparing rare situations with a common situation is silly in my opinion. Obviously the airlines cannot accommodate everyone, they can only try to accommodate people/situations that happen frequently, which obesity has become. If there were 5 broken legged people on majority of the flights, I am sure they would make it a policy to have them buy extra tickets also.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2012 14:12:32 GMT -5
What happens when you take people from all walks of life, different sizes and expectations, and put them in a small metal tube with wings for several hours...wait for it......Blanket airline policies !
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jul 9, 2012 14:13:15 GMT -5
::Or you could just customize based on the problem that people are actually complaining about and leave it at that. No one complains about the seats being TOO wide.::
People complain about flying being too expensive, charging 1/2 price for thin people in smaller seats would alleviate some of that. They complain that traveling with kids is expensive, same thing. People complain all the time about legroom, having variable legroom would solve that problem. People too obese to fit into one seat is a smaller complaint than either of those 2.
I think having them buy 2 seats is a lot better solution than making specific "fat seats", and then letting anyone else buy them. Because you know what comes next, regular sized couple wants extra space and buys the big seats, obese person can't fit into one seat so the airline kicks the people out of their paid-for seat to accomodate the obese passenger.
Dont' get me wrong, I'm all for huge seats, I'd reserve one just to pick up the extra leg space by angling my legs. I just don't think airlines need to make special seats for people who are either uncomfortable in one seat or don't fit...particularly given that those seats generally exist on the plane but are much more expensive.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jul 9, 2012 14:13:20 GMT -5
I certainly didn't mean to imply it was your fault. I just clearly stated it isn't something I would throw a hissy fit over and I don't understand others doing it either. I'm not a screechy "I HAVE MY RIGHTS DAMMIT" sort of person. I certainly didn't mean to imply you don't have a right to act anyway you wish.
No. It isn't like theft. Not in any way whatsoever. I certainly understand your discomfort and in no way am I trying to minimize your feelings. I just pick my hills to die on. They generally aren't hills that hurt other people just so I can be comfortable. Everyone picks their own hills.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 9, 2012 14:14:08 GMT -5
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 9, 2012 14:15:00 GMT -5
Sorry that was for Rukh.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2012 14:15:30 GMT -5
"Except the crying kid thing. If I could buy something for $3 that would solve the obese person squashing me problem I would. But I can't. "
Crying kid, as annoying as it is, is totally different than an obese person. They can be quiet during the flight or at least part of the flight. But an obese person is not going to shrink to fit in their seats part of the flight. I am sorry if I am offending anybody. That is not my intention. I think the best solution is purchasing the 2nd ticket and getting refunded if the flight is not full. It is the best option for everybody including the obese person, it saves them the humiliation of being pointed out to purchase another ticket. And if they haven't already done so even though they knew they needed it, well, then I don't feel bad if they get humiliated.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2012 14:16:04 GMT -5
You usually say that intent doesn't matter, so in this case, it really shouldn't matter why a person is fat. As cruel as it might sound, he might have a terminal illeness and is flying to say goodbye to his also dying dear old grandmother, but many people don't want to spend 1/2/5 hrs side to side (and I mean your side touching his side) with a stranger. Fair point about intent. I don't know what the solution is here, but I dislike the idea of humiliating *one* segment of problematic travelers based solely on their size, especially when there are *many* segments of problematic passengers that can make your flight uncomfortable. I mean, in my mind a plane ticket is passage from Point A to Point B. You're not paying for comfort, you're paying for expediency (or, if you're in first class, you're paying for both). If the flight isn't all that comfortable for you, well, tough shit. The airline doesn't guarantee you comfort. excuse me? I did pay for a ticket to a "seat." - this isn't a bus ride downtown. If I only get 75% of the seat - may I please pay only 75% of the cost of a ticket? After all - I can't stand. I am forced to be buckled in at takeoff, landing, and any turbulence, beverage truck. Furthermore, I can't stand in the aisle too much as the attendants will ask me to be seated. What you are consistently saying is that people who are large shouldn't have to endure the "humiliation" of having to either acknowledge to themselves that they are large and buy 2 seats, or when they neglect to do so, someone else having to inform them of the fact that they don't fit into a seat and will need 2. Why should I have to allow a complete stranger to physically touch me for hours on end to "spare them"? Where are my rights? I am paying for a seat, if someone else needs part of my seat, he or she should pay for it, not me. I had a friend who bought a second seat so she could bring on her harp (she was flying to a performance) and could not afford it be broken. If you need two seats, for whatever reason, you need to buy two.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 9, 2012 14:16:13 GMT -5
Someone better not being flailing their arms at me during a flight or there is going to be a real problem. I don't give a damn what your excuse is. Stay outa my space, period.
A person with Tourette's syndrome wouldn't be able to help it.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 9, 2012 14:16:29 GMT -5
Btw, chomping me to a free movie does not make up for you being in my space. I realize that's all the flight attendants can do but if I lose part of my seat in an already unhappy situation, I want something for it, like a partial refund. After all, you sold someone part of my seat.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2012 14:16:41 GMT -5
My point is I want 100% of the area I've paid to sit in. Please explain to me how that is detrimental to someone else? You want to utilize the seat that the airline offers you. So do they. What if they're spilling into the aisle instead of your side? Would that be okay? What if they can somehow make it through the flight without ever touching you, but the child on your other side is continuously setting up his little dinosaur battle on the armrest so that you can't use it? Should the child have to buy an extra seat? I get that it's uncomfortable to get cozy with a stranger on flights. Frankly, it's an issue for almost everyone (as many have pointed out) not just obese people. The armrests, for starters, aren't built to accommodate more than one arm - which totally makes sense when two people need to share it. So, we can agree that it's an issue. I don't dispute that. I dispute the part where we can't possibly figure out a solution that doesn't involve kicking people off planes, humiliating them, and ruining their travel plans. What game are you playing here firebird? I want 100% of my seat. If I have 100% of my seat, and no one is touching me, I don't care how big they are. I don't care if they are spilling into the aisle or not. I don't care if they are with a small child and using that child seat to supplement their own. None of my concern. I don't want some stranger's butt pressed up against me. I don't care if they weigh 100 or 400 pounds. stay out of my seat, don't touch me. all is good. Since things are so cut and dry, who owns the armrest?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2012 14:16:43 GMT -5
Okay, seriously, you do that on purpose don't you?
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whoami
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Post by whoami on Jul 9, 2012 14:17:21 GMT -5
Then it looks like 2 seats is a real deal! I got a round trip first class ticket from DFW to Boston for $540 in August.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 9, 2012 14:17:48 GMT -5
Then flail at your companion. I doubt they'd even be allowed to fly given the current security without a companion.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 9, 2012 14:18:43 GMT -5
I usually give up the one closest to the middle seat as I have the aisle. I figure being in the middle, they deserve it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2012 14:19:01 GMT -5
What you are consistently saying is that people who are large shouldn't have to endure the "humiliation" of having to either acknowledge to themselves that they are large and buy 2 seats, or when they neglect to do so, someone else having to inform them of the fact that they don't fit into a seat and will need 2.Actually, what I'm consistently pointing out is how silly and hypocritical it is to make people buy two seats if they're large, but NOT if they need an extra seat for a broken leg, or for a kid's 10,000 toys, or they have a disability that means they might wave their arms during flight and encroach on someone else's space. In other words, there are plenty of reasons why you might be less than 100% comfy because of your seatmate. Yet we only charge people for an extra seat for ONE of those reasons. As I've said repeatedly, I do understand it's a problem. I don't want to be squished up against anyone during a flight either, obese or not. But I don't think this is the best solution. That's all. If someone with a broken leg needs a second chair, and there is none, yes they should be bumped as well.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 9, 2012 14:19:41 GMT -5
Comparing rare situations with a common situation is silly in my opinion. Obviously the airlines cannot accommodate everyone, they can only try to accommodate people/situations that happen frequently, which obesity has become.
And since it has become common, I'd think they'd come up with a better way to accommodate the issue. Like I said, it's not like people are getting any skinnier. Why not figure out a humane way to deal with the issue now?
So far, I like the suggestions for posting the width requirements and automatically refunding the second seat if the flight isn't full best. Those seem like the easiest to immediately implement.
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