I am in the same place all the liberals were

[Value Buy]

emotionally during the eight years of the Bush Administration.
I listened to eight years of complaints about Bush being a rogue President, ignoring the Constitution etc.
I never really got it.
Until now.
After three and a half years of the Obama Administration we have the most rogue President in history, far surpassing any damage Bush might have created in eight years.
At least Bush never claimed, to be, or was a lawyer.
Obama cannot make that claim.
Between gay rights, usurping state rights on the issue.
Rogue Government actions throughout the world.
Absolutely dong nothing about illegal immigration, and now flaunting the fact to our citizens.
Ignoring the fiasco over the death of a Border agent, with the AG being allowed to ignore Congress.
and now the big one. Taxing the middle class with Health care, with no thought of taxing people equally, without any basis of income levels. Remember, he was the one that said this was not a "tax".
I now see how the liberals felt.
As a famous like able President once said, "I feel your Pain".

[billisonboard]

Jul 1, 2012 8:57:58 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

emotionally ...

"On January 20th, 2009, if George Bush and Dick Cheney are not appropriately held to account this Administration will hand off a toolbox with more powers than any President has ever had, more powers than the founders could have imagined. And that box may be handed to Hillary Clinton or it may be handed to Mitt Romney or Barack Obama or someone else. But whoever gets it, one of the things we know about power is that people don't give away the tools." — John Nichols www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/profile.html

Now if only you could get there intellectually and see it as a systemic problem instead of an emotional partisan issue, it would mean something.

[Angel!]

You think you feel pain now. You haven't felt pain until the day a president you hate gets re-elected. When you realize you have to deal with four more years of feeling like the country is moving in the wrong direction, that is when the real pain sets in.

[Value Buy]

Surprisingly for many of the liberal persuasion here, I do not "hate" Obama.
I just feel he is a Socialist and probably a great Community Organizer, but not a good President.

[Opti]

Jul 1, 2012 9:04:25 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jul 1, 2012 8:57:58 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

emotionally ...

"On January 20th, 2009, if George Bush and Dick Cheney are not appropriately held to account this Administration will hand off a toolbox with more powers than any President has ever had, more powers than the founders could have imagined. And that box may be handed to Hillary Clinton or it may be handed to Mitt Romney or Barack Obama or someone else. But whoever gets it, one of the things we know about power is that people don't give away the tools." — John Nichols www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/profile.html

Now if only you could get there intellectually and see it as a systemic problem instead of an emotional partisan issue, it would mean something.

Yes they are continuing on the same path. Its because of Bush and because of Obama I see clearly it is a systemic problem and not a party problem. All Presidents of recent memory have ignored the will of the majority on illegal immigration. Its unfortunate people think its about votes when it appears it is more likely about cheap labor for donors to both parties. (Most big corps donate to both parties. They seem to tweak the distribution on who they think might win.)

[deziloooooo]

Jul 1, 2012 9:16:44 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Surprisingly for many of the liberal persuasion here, I do not "hate" Obama.
I just feel he is a Socialist and probably a great Community Organizer, but not a good President.

and in the same vein I feel he has been a exceptional good POTUS , especially when you match him with the more modern Presidents we have had and faced with dire conditions that were some of the worst the country had ever faced , not with standing a world war..and in the financial end , worse then anything we have ever faced...plus inheriting two ongoing wars not of his choice as well as major changes in the world that had repercussions throughout the world, especially the Mid East..over ll..did really good job..

Funny how two normal sane people can see things so differently..guess it's what makes the world go round ...

[deziloooooo]

Jul 1, 2012 9:40:37 GMT -5 Opti said:

Jul 1, 2012 9:04:25 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

"On January 20th, 2009, if George Bush and Dick Cheney are not appropriately held to account this Administration will hand off a toolbox with more powers than any President has ever had, more powers than the founders could have imagined. And that box may be handed to Hillary Clinton or it may be handed to Mitt Romney or Barack Obama or someone else. But whoever gets it, one of the things we know about power is that people don't give away the tools." — John Nichols www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/profile.html

Now if only you could get there intellectually and see it as a systemic problem instead of an emotional partisan issue, it would mean something.

Yes they are continuing on the same path. Its because of Bush and because of Obama I see clearly it is a systemic problem and not a party problem. All Presidents of recent memory have ignored the will of the majority on illegal immigration. Its unfortunate people think its about votes when it appears it is more likely about cheap labor for donors to both parties. (Most big corps donate to both parties. They seem to tweak the distribution on who they think might win.)

"All Presidents of recent memory have ignored the will of the majority "

Who says the will of the people is the correct course to take? Just one that stands out was in the pre Pearl harbor times..the majority of the country were not in favor of any interaction in Europe affairs..uninterested in rearming for a possible attack, war..were perfectly agreeable to let Hitler and his party do what they want to other nations, peoples, even though they might not personally agree..though millions of Americans were supportive, see Nazi Bund in America..see audience and support
t for Father Coughlin..radio support, audiences..

Here the POTUS of the time had to walk a tight rope to do what was right and necessary and always knowing he was going AGAINST the will of the people..knowing if it became really known he might be defeated next election, removed from power...and few of us today , though there are a few still with that thought, believe he should have acted differently//just listened and done what the "will of the people " were asking, wanting..even demanding...

[djAdvocate]

Jul 1, 2012 8:57:58 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

emotionally during the eight years of the Bush Administration.
I listened to eight years of complaints about Bush being a rogue President, ignoring the Constitution etc.
I never really got it.

thank you. hopefully you will understand why i still continuously gripe about him, now.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 1, 2012 9:16:44 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Surprisingly for many of the liberal persuasion here, I do not "hate" Obama.
I just feel he is a Socialist and probably a great Community Organizer, but not a good President.

give it time.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

I love Obama as a human being and I try to pray for him daily. However, he is the enemy of my country and a lawless man, and I also pray for my country and for justice. If my prayers are answered, God will save both.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 1, 2012 12:37:07 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

I love Obama as a human being and I try to pray for him daily. However, he is the enemy of my country and a lawless man, and I also pray for my country and for justice. If my prayers are answered, God will save both.

we have the means to save ourselves. we should use them. God helps those who help themselves, after all.

[Sum Dum Gai]

far surpassing any damage Bush might have created in eight years.

The people killed in the war in Iraq that we were lied too in order to start would probably have issue with you comparing some policy changes that could be overturned with one vote and a stroke of a pen as more damaging than their deaths. Just sayin.

[sesfw]

'I do not "hate" Obama.'

Having never met the man, I have no reason to hate him. I totally dispise where he has taken this country and I'll be very glad when eviction notice is given to him this November.

In his oath of office, he swore on a Bible that he would uphold the laws of the US. Maybe his fingers were crossed behind his back but I'm still waiting for him the kick the illegal immigrants out of the US. And this would include his aunt and uncle from Kenya.

[Don Perignon]

What will be interesting will be th neo-con reaction to Obama's re-election... challenged by the Republicans but adjudicated by the US Supreme Court, Pres. Obama being reinstated by the deciding vote of Judge Roberts.
I shall delight in estimating the RPMs of their gyrating heads.

Alas, if only that energy could be captured and harnessed in a positive manner.

[chiver78]

Jul 1, 2012 13:37:13 GMT -5 sesfw said:

'I do not "hate" Obama.'

Having never met the man, I have no reason to hate him. I totally dispise where he has taken this country and I'll be very glad when eviction notice is given to him this November.

In his oath of office, he swore on a Bible that he would uphold the laws of the US. Maybe his fingers were crossed behind his back but I'm still waiting for him the kick the illegal immigrants out of the US. And this would include his aunt and uncle from Kenya.

not for nothing, but the last 43 guys before him have taken that same oath. when was the last time ANY President has made a realistic move against illegal immigration? it continues to astound me how anyone can still hold this against him, as if he's the only one that's ever ignored it. <insert eye roll here> there's plenty he's done wrong, but this is a status quo - which absolutely needs to change.

like the last election, I don't think he's our best option, but he's ridiculously more favorable than the only viable remaining alternative in November. I've already survived a Romney term, I'd much rather avoid any new ones. I still lament that Hillary didn't win the primary last time around. she had a very successful first 8 years in the White House, we're totally missing out on another 8 great years.

[Tennesseer]

"Not for nothing..."

I miss hearing that colloquialism in every-day speech down here.

[chiver78]

Jul 1, 2012 15:13:14 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

"Not for nothing..."

I miss hearing that colloquialism in every-day speech down here.

aw... you can come home to visit any time you like, sir.

[Value Buy]

Jul 1, 2012 13:37:13 GMT -5 sesfw said:

'I do not "hate" Obama.'

Having never met the man, I have no reason to hate him. I totally dispise where he has taken this country and I'll be very glad when eviction notice is given to him this November.

In his oath of office, he swore on a Bible that he would uphold the laws of the US. Maybe his fingers were crossed behind his back but I'm still waiting for him the kick the illegal immigrants out of the US. And this would include his aunt and uncle from Kenya.

Just a heads up.
My "I do not hate Obama", was in response to
Angel D who I assume was referring to Bush II and his second term, who she pretty much hated.

[zibazinski]

The last election, I wanted to vote for the person who would kick the illegals out of this country. Neither one would go there. I'm sorry but I do believe the President, just like other ELECTED officials should have to do the will of the PEOPLE and if that means OUT with the illegals, then that is what they should do. I pray daily that Obama does not get re-elected but those prayers will probably not get answered.

[zibazinski]

I don't think we have ever had an elected official who hated this country and what it used to stand for as much as Obama.

[deziloooooo]

Jul 1, 2012 14:40:23 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Jul 1, 2012 13:37:13 GMT -5 sesfw said:

'I do not "hate" Obama.'

Having never met the man, I have no reason to hate him. I totally dispise where he has taken this country and I'll be very glad when eviction notice is given to him this November.

In his oath of office, he swore on a Bible that he would uphold the laws of the US. Maybe his fingers were crossed behind his back but I'm still waiting for him the kick the illegal immigrants out of the US. And this would include his aunt and uncle from Kenya.

not for nothing, but the last 43 guys before him have taken that same oath. when was the last time ANY President has made a realistic move against illegal immigration? it continues to astound me how anyone can still hold this against him, as if he's the only one that's ever ignored it. <insert eye roll here> there's plenty he's done wrong, but this is a status quo - which absolutely needs to change.

like the last election, I don't think he's our best option, but he's ridiculously more favorable than the only viable remaining alternative in November. I've already survived a Romney term, I'd much rather avoid any new ones. I still lament that Hillary didn't win the primary last time around. she had a very successful first 8 years in the White House, we're totally missing out on another 8 great years.

Excuse me but your memory is faulty..both Hillery and Bill were pillared and vilified while Bill was POTUS..she too as she was a active participant with out portfolio is one way to explain her doings..

Don't get me wrong, over all I was a supporter but to say now she was a paragon of virtue in the eyes of the people..for some yes but for so many , not , same as this POTUS we have now and also his spouse who many also are not happy with..why I have no idea but it's a fact.

[Tennesseer]

Jul 1, 2012 17:26:11 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

I don't think we have ever had an elected official who hated this country and what it used to stand for as much as Obama.

This deserves a double.

[Deleted]

Jul 1, 2012 8:57:58 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

emotionally during the eight years of the Bush Administration.
I listened to eight years of complaints about Bush being a rogue President, ignoring the Constitution etc.
I never really got it.
Until now.
After three and a half years of the Obama Administration we have the most rogue President in history, far surpassing any damage Bush might have created in eight years.
At least Bush never claimed, to be, or was a lawyer.
Obama cannot make that claim.
Between gay rights, usurping state rights on the issue.
Rogue Government actions throughout the world.
Absolutely dong nothing about illegal immigration, and now flaunting the fact to our citizens.
Ignoring the fiasco over the death of a Border agent, with the AG being allowed to ignore Congress.
and now the big one. Taxing the middle class with Health care, with no thought of taxing people equally, without any basis of income levels. Remember, he was the one that said this was not a "tax".
I now see how the liberals felt.
As a famous like able President once said, "I feel your Pain".

LOL

Chill dude...you were never a "liberal", whatever that means...you are too hyper and out there in extreme land...but the good news is, you can be saved. lol ;D

Take a deep breath, and start from your first principles and build on that...slowly.

[deziloooooo]

Jul 1, 2012 17:25:00 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

The last election, I wanted to vote for the person who would kick the illegals out of this country. Neither one would go there. I'm sorry but I do believe the President, just like other ELECTED officials should have to do the will of the PEOPLE and if that means OUT with the illegals, then that is what they should do. I pray daily that Obama does not get re-elected but those prayers will probably not get answered.

As said above, do not have to do what the will of the people are asking if in their judgment and many times due to knowledge they are privy to and we the people are not..and the ramifications of..

they are independent of that , are asked to serve the people and the country to the best of their ability...if enough of the people are not happy with a elected officials performance we have a neat way of solving that problem called elections and they have the right to vote against , demonstrate against...

as far as the illegals , that's a tough one , as all POTUS have found out and personally expecting or even to think about deporting 11 million or more [ I have heard as many as 16 million] illegals..the logistics, expense of, the bad publicity..the investigating and defense of...you have to be kidding , will never ever happen so why keep bringing it up..

[deziloooooo]

Jul 1, 2012 17:43:13 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jul 1, 2012 17:26:11 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

I don't think we have ever had an elected official who hated this country and what it used to stand for as much as Obama.

This deserves a double.

actually heres another..well deserving of...

[Deleted]

Jul 1, 2012 17:49:46 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

Jul 1, 2012 17:25:00 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

The last election, I wanted to vote for the person who would kick the illegals out of this country. Neither one would go there. I'm sorry but I do believe the President, just like other ELECTED officials should have to do the will of the PEOPLE and if that means OUT with the illegals, then that is what they should do. I pray daily that Obama does not get re-elected but those prayers will probably not get answered.

As said above, do not have to do what the will of the people are asking if in their judgment and many times due to knowledge they are privy to and we the people are not..and the ramifications of..

they are independent of that , are asked to serve the people and the country to the best of their ability...if enough of the people are not happy with a elected officials performance we have a neat way of solving that problem called elections and they have the right to vote against , demonstrate against...

as far as the illegals , that's a tough one , as all POTUS have found out and personally expecting or even to think about deporting 11 million or more [ I have heard as many as 16 million] illegals..the logistics, expense of, the bad publicity..the investigating and defense of...you have to be kidding , will never ever happen so why keep bringing it up..

Dezi, are you a very verbose Jewish Gay guy...are we in an episode of Seinfeld? Let me know.

There are illegals under my bed, and it is about 25 million. What...you don't like the little brown people? It is a changing world.

[weltschmerz]

Dezi is cool; just has a tendency to ramble a bit. Given his age, I try to overlook it.

[deziloooooo]

Jul 1, 2012 18:02:56 GMT -5 Robert not Bobby said:

Jul 1, 2012 17:49:46 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

As said above, do not have to do what the will of the people are asking if in their judgment and many times due to knowledge they are privy to and we the people are not..and the ramifications of..

they are independent of that , are asked to serve the people and the country to the best of their ability...if enough of the people are not happy with a elected officials performance we have a neat way of solving that problem called elections and they have the right to vote against , demonstrate against...

as far as the illegals , that's a tough one , as all POTUS have found out and personally expecting or even to think about deporting 11 million or more [ I have heard as many as 16 million] illegals..the logistics, expense of, the bad publicity..the investigating and defense of...you have to be kidding , will never ever happen so why keep bringing it up..

Dezi, are you a very verbose Jewish Gay guy...are we in an episode of Seinfeld? Let me know.

There are illegals under my bed, and it is about 25 million. What...you don't like the little brown people? It is a changing world.

25 million??? Naaaaa...really?? If so then the idea of deporting all is just really ludicrous so again, why even bring it up...

[deziloooooo]

Jul 1, 2012 18:10:44 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Dezi is cool; just has a tendency to ramble a bit. Given his age, I try to overlook it.

appreciate it and thank you..

[kadee79]

as far as the illegals , that's a tough one , as all POTUS have found out and personally expecting or even to think about deporting 11 million or more [ I have heard as many as 16 million] illegals..the logistics, expense of, the bad publicity..the investigating and defense of...you have to be kidding , will never ever happen so why keep bringing it up..

You are forgetting that they buy....houses, groceries, etc., etc. and the corps. selling to them don't want to loose the business. And they provide cheap labor for farms, processing plants, etc., etc.....which don't want to give that up either.
And when they buy anything, they pay sales taxes that the states & locals don't want to give up either.
More states have passed laws...birth certificate for tax payer funded benefits. Good!
And did you know/realize that we have an agreement with Mexico (not sure about other countries) to provide medical services to Mexicans here on the work program? Yep, tax payer funded medical & the ones in my area get free dental too...every summer. The medical/dental students come down & open a clinic for them for a certain length of time. But at the same time we have legal citizens who can't get this care.