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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2012 10:52:20 GMT -5
I honestly think every person needs to live on their own at least 6 months or longer. No dorms or no roommates, just you. Because then you learn that the are no fairies - laundry, bills, grocery, cleaning and maintenance all need to happen on a regular basis. I know some people learn this while living at home but so many don't. Living alone isn't necessarily the issue. Some people can live alone just fine because they have their own standards for when something needs to be done that would gross others out. There is no laundry fairy, but the laundry can pile up on the floor until you run out of underwear and nobody will die. The dishes can stay in the sink growing mold until you run out of plates. The toilet doesn't stop functioning because it gets a ring around the water line. The dust bunnies piling up in the corner don't bite anybody. you are spot on with my DH. As long as he has clothes to wear and food to eat and nothing is growing/crawling where he sleeps/eats/uses the bathroom, he's fine.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 13, 2012 10:52:29 GMT -5
I honestly think every person needs to live on their own at least 6 months or longer. No dorms or no roommates, just you. Because then you learn that the are no fairies - laundry, bills, grocery, cleaning and maintenance all need to happen on a regular basis. I know some people learn this while living at home but so many don't. Living alone isn't necessarily the issue. Some people can live alone just fine because they have their own standards for when something needs to be done that would gross others out. There is no laundry fairy, but the laundry can pile up on the floor until you run out of underwear and nobody will die. The dishes can stay in the sink growing mold until you run out of plates. The toilet doesn't stop functioning because it gets a ring around the water line. The dust bunnies piling up in the corner don't bite anybody. Right. But at some point you need to do the laundry or wear dirty clothes. Same with dishes and cleaning. If you want your deposit back, you clean before you go. You want wifi, you pay the bill. You want to eat, you either need to shop and cook or eat out. I think a lot of people go from having parents deal with it to having roommates deal with it. They're never lived alone and had that come to Jesus moment on "Someone needs to do it and I'm that someone." And then they get involved with someone who DID have that moment and they end doing everything. Living by yourself doesn't solve the problem but I think it would help. Not to mention all the people who'd figure out that they CAN live by themselves and don't need to have a partner to show off/hang on to...
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jun 13, 2012 10:52:57 GMT -5
Over the years, there were a few periods where DW was pretty much useless. As we are now, compared to then, things have drastically improved. I still believe that I do more chores (cooking, most cleaning). We each do our own laundry. The pet care is divided up.
The root of the issue that cawiau outlines in the OP comes down to two forces:
1) The instigator has a bad attitude. 2) The reactor inadvertently fosters this attitude.
In the above case, either person could fit either role. Sometimes one party is a leech who discovers that he/she can get away with doing nothing. Other times, the will to help has been squelched because every single contribution fails to meet Mr./Ms. Perfectionist's almighty standards.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Jun 13, 2012 10:53:20 GMT -5
I think it's really important to reach a balance that works for both of you. DH and I are both natural slobs. We are slowly starting to overcome that natural tendancy, but it's a struggle for both of us. The only mess that really bugs me is a messy kitchen, and because we have an absolutely tiny kitchen, it takes about one meal for it to be messy. I probably do dishes 50% of the time, but I can also turn to DH or our roomie and say- someone besides me needs to do some dishes, and dishes will get done. DH is well aware that during this last quarter, his dish doing really fell off, and intends to get back in the game.
I do the vacuuming, steam cleaning, and lawn mowing. I argue with DH about the vacuuming part, but it's not that big a deal. Lawn mowing is my choice. I realized that after the first time DH mowed the lawn and I felt the need to go out and redo spots. If I'm going to feel that way, then I just need to do it myself. I feed the dogs. I do laundry, but DH will put away his own clothes (if I ask- often, putting laundry away is something I do when no one else is home)
DH cleans the bathroom (with the exception of the tub, that's mine). Between DH and roomie cook the majority of the time (I make dinner maybe once every 2-3 weeks) DH does tree trimming DH and roomie do home improvement projects together (our dryer has forever vented into the garage. recently, they ran dryer ducting across the roof of the garage and cut a hole through the siding so that it can finally vent outdoors where it's supposed to) If DH enters a manic phase, he'll do massive basement/garage organizaiton and clean up on his own (it's wrong of me, but I kind of like his manic phases)
We all do blackberry battle. We all pick up after the dogs. We all do clutter clean up, when we feel the need to clean clutter (generally right before people are coming over) We go grocery shopping together. We take the dogs to the dog park togehter.
As most of you know, we're in the adoption process, and the plan is for DH to be primary care giver. So for the most part, I'm pretty happy with the household division of labor.
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InsertCoolName
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Post by InsertCoolName on Jun 13, 2012 10:55:58 GMT -5
Well, I guess Dh is useless around the house in general. But he is only home about 6 days per month. Sooooooooo that does limit what he can do here. On those 6 days that he is home I would say that he's only useless for 2-3 of them. When he was home everyday, he would clean if I asked him to, but it was his clean and not mine. Hell it wasn't even anyone else clean either. LOL I worry/wonder about him sometimes. I'm doing everything but that's because I am the only one who is here to do them. Not because I'm a super woman. Hell if I were then I would have a full time kick ass career, be sexy beautiful, have a perfect home ready for any photo shoot, ALWAYS cook real meals at home AND be a slut in bed for DH when ever. However, I'm none of those so I guess he would tell ya I'm useless. If he ever said he would baby-sit our kids so I could go outside of the house without them, I would probably end up in jail and or anger management. I'm baby-sitting a child who isn't ours and I am getting paid for my time. Being a parent to your own child isn't baby-sitting.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 13, 2012 10:56:14 GMT -5
There is no laundry fairy, but the laundry can pile up on the floor until you run out of underwear and nobody will dieThen they get creative. I decided I was done cleaning up DH's pile o-underwear when we had a hamper. Rather than nag I decided to ignore the behavior I didn't like rather than give it attention (I read that Shamu trainer book). He did exactly this and then started turning his underwear inside out! I was horrified at how long it too for him to finally break down and ask why I did not do the dirty laundry. I nicely replied "Oh those are dirty? Since they weren't in the hamper I figured you were still wearing them so I left them there". He hasn't thrown his underwear on the floor since.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 13, 2012 10:56:17 GMT -5
I manage the finances, do the grocery shopping, plan our social calendar, and give the house a good cleaning every Saturday or Sunday. I will load/unload the dishwasher or do a few loads of laundry on the weekends or my days off, but after work I'm useless. DH does everything else - cooking, vacuuming, yard work, home improvements/repairs, car repairs, and most of the laundry/dishes. (Did I mention he works 10-12 hours a week more than I do? ) DH is a carbon copy of MIL, who I'm pretty sure is Superwoman. She raised 3 kids while working FT, cooks every meal from scratch, and keeps a spotless home. Thank goodness DH doesn't expect me to be like her
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quotequeen
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Post by quotequeen on Jun 13, 2012 10:57:11 GMT -5
Living alone isn't necessarily the issue. Some people can live alone just fine because they have their own standards for when something needs to be done that would gross others out. There is no laundry fairy, but the laundry can pile up on the floor until you run out of underwear and nobody will die. The dishes can stay in the sink growing mold until you run out of plates. The toilet doesn't stop functioning because it gets a ring around the water line. The dust bunnies piling up in the corner don't bite anybody. Right. But at some point you need to do the laundry or wear dirty clothes. Same with dishes and cleaning. If you want your deposit back, you clean before you go. You want wifi, you pay the bill. You want to eat, you either need to shop and cook or eat out. I think a lot of people go from having parents deal with it to having roommates deal with it. They're never lived alone and had that come to Jesus moment on "Someone needs to do it and I'm that someone." And then they get involved with someone who DID have that moment and they end doing everything. Living by yourself doesn't solve the problem but I think it would help. Not to mention all the people who'd figure out that they CAN live by themselves and don't need to have a partner to show off/hang on to... Right but I would say that the majority of the "my partner is useless" complaints are really "my partner doesn't have the same standards of when things need to be done as I do" complaints.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2012 10:57:21 GMT -5
I think it is quite unrealistic that everything will be 50/50 in a relationship with some tasks balancing out others to create some utopia of cohabitation. There is some healthy minimum of course of maybe 60/40.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jun 13, 2012 10:57:53 GMT -5
Our problems arise because his standard is higher than mine. I am also going to have him read this month's "Can this marriage survive" article, since it's about a perfectionist and her "laid back" husband. DH will only clean unprompted if he thinks it's a problem. Seeing as he could live in a landfill without issue, it's safe to say that I will be cleaning XYZ because I don't enjoy living in filth. Now if I ask him, he'll do it (and then proclaim it as if he's cured cancer ), but not in a timely fashion. After a while I just had to accept the fact that my standards are higher than his (I'm not a neat freak - I can deal with clutter but dirt/unsanitary conditions makes me physically agitated), and that I should be happy that he helps at all. We actually had to go to counseling for this. It was either that or his murder trial. Now I ask for him to do things and he is not allowed to use words like "help" or "babysitting". I also had to learn to let go of some things. He doesn't clean the way I would but if I complain they he wont do it at all so now if I want his help I let it slide in regards to it not being done to my expectations.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 13, 2012 10:59:10 GMT -5
I think it is quite unrealistic that everything will be 50/50 in a relationship with some tasks balancing out others to create some utopia of cohabitation.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2012 10:59:58 GMT -5
I think it is quite unrealistic that everything will be 50/50 in a relationship with some tasks balancing out others to create some utopia of cohabitation. There is some healthy minimum of course of maybe 60/40. I completely agree with this. Also, count me in as one of the people who gets infuriated when parents refer to watching their kids as "babysitting".
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2012 11:00:52 GMT -5
She sounds just like my MIL! And DH started dating me because I was nothing like her. I like to remind him of that fact when he's complaining about dust.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 13, 2012 11:01:14 GMT -5
Right but I would say that the majority of the "my partner is useless" complaints are really "my partner doesn't have the same standards of when things need to be done as I do" complaints. I agree.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2012 11:02:29 GMT -5
DH and I have way different standards. He can spend hours scrubbing a small part for an engine but doesn't notice the piles of dirt on the floor. I'm happy with one coat of paint on the walls while DH wants two coats of primer and then two coats of paint (this came up recently).
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 13, 2012 11:04:46 GMT -5
DH and I married young and basically finished growing up together. He has almost always done his fair share (we did hit a hiccup back 5/6 years ago when things weren't so rosy). - Changed at least 50% of DS' diapers. - Used to cook probably 75/85% of the meals but now that he is working longer hours I cook more. - I do the laundry and he cleans the bathrooms. - He does all the yard work and I do the finances. - When we do a major clean he is right there doing his half.
My work day has always been more flexible and regular than his so I do more of the school/shuttling the kid around stuff. I can pretty much leave and pick up the kid or drop his off somewhere whenever I want or need to. DH never knows from one day to the next what job site or lab he will be in or when he will get home. He keeps me updated with texts and emails and we have learned to go with the flow.
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quotequeen
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Post by quotequeen on Jun 13, 2012 11:05:40 GMT -5
He doesn't clean the way I would but if I complain they he wont do it at all so now if I want his help I let it slide in regards to it not being done to my expectations. That's one of the reasons I'm useless. If you want to criticize what I do then you can do it your own damn self!
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Taxman10
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Post by Taxman10 on Jun 13, 2012 11:07:29 GMT -5
Sometimes I think so. DH is a serial remodeller and a workaholic. He works so many hours lately on his main job that when he comes home he tends to sit down on the couch and fall asleep. When He says "We need to clean the house" I beleive he means "YOU need to clean the house while I sit on the couch". If he eats an orange, he eats it in the living room, no bowl or plate and leaves the peels for me to pick up. DH is a good cook, so if he is home he cooks. I get to do the dishes. He tends to use more dishes than I would. (I don't make a big deal about the dishes b/c I really don't trust him to do the dishes. DH does not know how to turn on the dishwasher. DH does not know how to use the washing machine if I am home. If I am not home, he can figure it out. He irons his own clothes. DH does all the lawn work, unless his parents do it first. I swear they cut our lawn all last summer. DH first cut it in September. I do all the personal finances. I do the taxes. I do most of the school stuff, but DH occasionally acts as a pinch hitter. School is one place where I never made issues about DH's involvement. His hours are not condusive to him attending school functions. Mine aren't really either, but I make it work. DH handles the AM School stuff and I handle the PM school stuff. DH or my FIL always take the Dog for Grooming. I have never done it myself. I always take the dog to the vet. I had DS do it one time though. it sounds like you have a great man - quit complaining and be thankful
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jun 13, 2012 11:07:47 GMT -5
...:::"They're never lived alone and had that come to Jesus moment on "Someone needs to do it and I'm that someone." And then they get involved with someone who DID have that moment and they end doing everything.":::...
I agree with MJ that this lesson can backfire. The only lesson some people will learn is: "wow, the world DOESN'T end if I leave dishes overnight". Its not that I don't see value in people being forced to take responsibility for their own care. Its that it is VERY easy to become complacent when one is not accountable to anyone.
My DW and another person could look at our place and describe it completely differently. Whereas my DW will say "this is messy and unfit for company" the other might say "my house isn't this clean on its BEST day"
A life coach I knew once made it a point to ensure her clients knew that "I like a clean house" is not the same thing as "I like to clean".
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 13, 2012 11:08:25 GMT -5
He did exactly this and then started turning his underwear inside out! Guh-ROSS!!!! Also, count me in as one of the people who gets infuriated when parents refer to watching their kids as "babysitting". Me too. It's so funny how a single word can be such a huge issue, but sometimes it points to a bigger one. If you really think of looking after your own child as babysitting, then inherently it's "not your job" and you're doing it as a favor. Not cool.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Jun 13, 2012 11:08:58 GMT -5
I forgot to mention- I pay all the bills- not because DH can't, but because I like playing in my excel spreadsheets. He actually has been bugging me to make him a list of all the bills, when they are due, and how we pay them- with logins and passwords and such. I should probably do that. I also keep our social calendar, but that's because DH is a homebody. He would stay home all the time, or only decide to do things at the last minute, if he were made aware of them.
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Taxman10
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Post by Taxman10 on Jun 13, 2012 11:09:17 GMT -5
Right. But at some point you need to do the laundry or wear dirty clothes. Same with dishes and cleaning. If you want your deposit back, you clean before you go. You want wifi, you pay the bill. You want to eat, you either need to shop and cook or eat out. I think a lot of people go from having parents deal with it to having roommates deal with it. They're never lived alone and had that come to Jesus moment on "Someone needs to do it and I'm that someone." And then they get involved with someone who DID have that moment and they end doing everything. Living by yourself doesn't solve the problem but I think it would help. Not to mention all the people who'd figure out that they CAN live by themselves and don't need to have a partner to show off/hang on to... Right but I would say that the majority of the "my partner is useless" complaints are really "my partner doesn't have the same standards of when things need to be done as I do" complaints.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 13, 2012 11:09:34 GMT -5
If DH enters a manic phase, he'll do massive basement/garage organizaiton and clean up on his own (it's wrong of me, but I kind of like his manic phases)Oh Shanen- It's ok. I am the same way. It's really bad of me to admit but there have been times where I have wanted something done and DH has been putting it off that I will um, "encourage", a manic episode because he tends to clean and do yard work during those phases. It's bad I know- I have admitted doing that to DH and he was less than amused. But man, did he do a nice job cleaning and organizing the garage
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2012 11:17:06 GMT -5
He doesn't clean the way I would but if I complain they he wont do it at all so now if I want his help I let it slide in regards to it not being done to my expectations. That's one of the reasons I'm useless. If you want to criticize what I do then you can do it your own damn self! HALLELUJAH! ;D
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Jun 13, 2012 11:17:27 GMT -5
Sheila: I need DH to enter a manic phase here soon, so that he can get the last of of the cleaning and organizing done (and I can get away with not doing much of it) and schedule our home inspection for foster care
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 13, 2012 11:18:50 GMT -5
Good Luck Shanen- I am really excited for you two and hope the inspection goes smoothly.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Jun 13, 2012 11:19:30 GMT -5
He doesn't clean the way I would but if I complain they he wont do it at all so now if I want his help I let it slide in regards to it not being done to my expectations. That's one of the reasons I'm useless. If you want to criticize what I do then you can do it your own damn self! And this is why I mow the lawn and don't ever ask DH to do so. He will occassionally offer to help (we have a big lawn), and I've gotten better about letting small missed areas go, but for hte most part, I figure if how he does it is going to bother me, there's no sense in asking him to do it. I just need to do it my own damn self. ;D
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jun 13, 2012 11:23:57 GMT -5
That's one of the reasons I'm useless. If you want to criticize what I do then you can do it your own damn self! HALLELUJAH! ;D that was actually part of our counseling. I now say what I mean when I say "would you clean the living room. In his mind it is clean when the junk isn't all over anymore. But If I wanted that junk just picked up and thrown into the bedroom I would have done it myself. So it is easy for him to say I complain when he does things but from my point of view if he actually tried to do it right I wouldn't complain.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 13, 2012 11:31:44 GMT -5
Good Luck Shanen- I am really excited for you two and hope the inspection goes smoothly.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2012 11:32:28 GMT -5
Were you hiding in our bushes last night? I believe you quoted DH verbatum! The counselor in "can this marriage be saved" stated that opposites attract but when you live together it's the things about them that first attracted you to them that tick you off the most. He/she suggested that if each partner could change 10% of their behavior towards the other way they would be able to find a happy medium...so the perfectionist learns to deal with things being 90% perfect and the slob does 10% more work "the right way". And keeping the lines of communication open and all that jazz...blah...blah....blah....it seemed to work for that couple, anyway.
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