Honesty

[Sum Dum Gai]

Is it really all it's cracked up to be? Yes this is a spin off from the divorce thread.

So, here's the scenario. A married couple are getting ready to go out for the evening for the first time since their baby was born a couple months previously. The wife walks out of the closet and asks her husband, "How do I look?"

1) White lie.
The husband responds, "You look good, let's go."

2) Honesty is the best policy.
The husband responds, "A little chubby and like you haven't had a full nights sleep in two months."

3) Brutally honest.
The husband responds, "Fat."

The wife goes back into the closet to change outfits. She comes out and asks, "how about now?"

The husband responds, "Still fat."

The wife starts to head back into the closet for the third time when he says, "Look woman, you're still carrying around an extra twenty pounds, and there ain't nothing in that closet that's going to hide it, so just throw on a tent and let's go before we miss our dinner reservation. If anything you should spend a few minutes putting on some make up, because the dark circles under your eyes make it look like I beat you."


Now I ask you, who here actually wants to hear the truth 100% of the time, and if so, why are you such a masochist?

[Opti]

You are meaner than me. I wouldn't expect her to be thin or gorgeous right away so I'd go with:

1) Good
2) Maybe just put on some makeup. Staying up with junior hasn't been kind to your pretty eyes.

or if you are Dark
3) Good enough.




ETA: To me Good is relative. I don't feel compelled to judge anyone against a 10 point scale or even against their best looks. If it is good for today, I think its good enough. Plus I agree with the spiritual thinking that we are whole, perfect, and complete as we are. I like to judge on a higher scale.

[Deleted]

DH and I are honest with each other. Period. He does most of the cooking and will ask what I think if he tries something new. If it's too soggy, or over cooked, or needs a little hot sauce, I tell him. We're adults here and we're considerate of each others' feelings. I don't it down the garbage disposal and go get Chinese takeout. (And his cooking is always edible.)

I never ask him how I look. He'd probaly say "fine" and mean it. He's not a fashionista. I know I don't look like someone on the red carpet at an award show, but I can tell when I look attractive vs. grungy. No need to ask awkward questions.

And when it comes to the important stuff, we trust each other. He knows that when I tell him how much money we have or what I make, it's the truth. He knows when I go out and buy something expensive and he's always happy for me because he knows the bills are paid. (More trust.) Similarly, when he says what he did during the day, I know that he's not lying and having lunch with The Other Woman and then gambling at the casino.

If I can't trust someone I pretty much get them out of my life. It's easier that way.

[Deleted]

I don't think those answers are about the truth though. That is about being mean.

Stark naked, this is a woman who hasn't had a decent night's sleep in 2 months and is carrying extra baby weight.

Clothes can (a) make her look worse, (b) present her as she is, or (c) make her look better.

There isn't a magical dress that can make someone look 20 lbs thinner, but there are clothes that can make you look 5 lbs thinner. Colors that can make you look more vibrant.

The question wasn't "do I look as good as I did before the baby." It was does her current body look good in the current packaging.

[Sum Dum Gai]

Stark naked, this is a woman who hasn't had a decent night's sleep in 2 months and is carrying extra baby weight.

Right, which is why the honest answer to how do I look is something along the lines of, 'like you're still carrying some of the baby weight and haven't had a good night's sleep in two months.' If she wants to know whether the clothes make her look better or worse considering that she'd have to ask that question.

[Jake 48]

When DW and I go out I will tell her " you clean up pretty good"

[Sum Dum Gai]

or if you are Dark
3) Good enough.

Hell no, do I look crazy to you? I lie to my wife all the time and smile while I do it.

[Deleted]

May 9, 2012 18:22:04 GMT -5 @craftysarah said:

Stark naked, this is a woman who hasn't had a decent night's sleep in 2 months and is carrying extra baby weight.

There are different ways to present the truth. One is: "Honey, you look like you need a good night's sleep, and we really need to find a way for you to make time for the gym again." Or: "Your face looks like death warmed over and your body looks like you're still pregnant".

A considerate partner can give an honest answer without bludgeoning the recipient with it. I kept getting into e-mail arguments with a guy I knew in college and he'd spew all kinds of crap in the process of telling me what he thought about my beliefs, with the observation, "the truth hurts, doesn't it?" As if that gave him license to be as vicious as he wanted to be. His e-mails now get deleted automatically.

[Opti]

May 9, 2012 18:28:10 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Stark naked, this is a woman who hasn't had a decent night's sleep in 2 months and is carrying extra baby weight.

Right, which is why the honest answer to how do I look is something along the lines of, 'like you're still carrying some of the baby weight and haven't had a good night's sleep in two months.' If she wants to know whether the clothes make her look better or worse considering that she'd have to ask that question.

So you want to get hung up on semantics?
Most people mean how do I look in the clothes I have on with this
makeup or my facial hair shaved this way. They aren't looking for an
evaluation of their body. I think you know this and just want to
.

I think you are confusing honesty with being unnecessarily brutal.
Honesty is answering the question asked(taking into account not everyone is literal and social conventions) and IMO telling the truth in an honest kind way. If someone is overweight, they know it, there is no value in saying anything about it. But anyone can dress to look better or worse than they are at the moment and that is the question most of us want answered. Yes you look good, or I think those blue pants and green shirt look better are honest answers.

[Opti]

May 9, 2012 18:33:45 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

or if you are Dark
3) Good enough.

Hell no, do I look crazy to you? I lie to my wife all the time and smile while I do it.

Poor woman. She probably looks good to people not grading on the
Dark scale.

[Sum Dum Gai]

On the other thread somebody said they'd never told their SO even a white lie. Frankly, I find that hard to believe. Common courtesy pretty much requires us to lie here and there. Sharing a living space with somebody flat out does. Sometimes we ask questions expecting to be lied too, at least a little. It would be rude to actually be honest all the time.

Look, I've got mirrors in the house. It's not like I don't know that I don't look like a male model. When I get dressed up for a wedding or something, and ask the wife how I look, I want her to embellish the truth a bit. Probably because I'm slightly nervous and self conscious in the first place. If I wanted a brutally honest opinion of what I actually looked like I wouldn't be asking the misses in the first place, I'd just stand in front of the mirror for a few seconds. KWIM?

[kittensaver]

I agree with Dark. I think there are ways to spare someone's feelings without being a liar (or a jerk). Many people use "honesty" as an excuse to be hateful, hurtful, cynical and/or sarcastic. The person who says, "how do I look?" is not looking for honesty - - they are fishing for a compliment. A lot of times that fishing is grounded in insecurity. Do you really want to chip away at your partner's self esteem? (I dunno, maybe you do.) There are lies and untruths that make a person fundamentally dishonest, and then there are those inconsequential teeny fibs that grease the wheels of social life and personal interaction. A fundamentally honest and good person will not hesitate to spare someone's feelings when it is a minor thing that really doesn't matter. If it is big deal that matters, they will step up and tell the truth.

[quince]

If someone is asking for your opinion on an outfit, I think a good assumption is that everyone knows what the base material looks like, dressed or undressed.

If someone asks "Do you think I'm fat?" That is an entirely different question. I, personally, am overweight. I have no problem with my SO not lying to me about it. I would have a problem if he threw it into arguments, if he randomly stated it, if he came up to me randomly to tell me I look terrible. I've lost weight since we got together, so I'd be pissed if he said my naked body disgusted him, since two years in is not a good time to bring it up for the first time.

I have no problem with him, unasked, tell me something I'm wearing is not flattering. Or talk to me about my weight, or food choices, etc.

He tells me if something is unflattering, looks too tight, bra is pinching in a not-sexy way. This is fine.

I know he's not as blatant with the honesty as I am- he's the master of redirection and omission. That's fine- I know it and I listen closely to what he says. I would be angry if he told an outright untruth.

When we disagree, he tells me if he thinks I'm being irrational. This is fine. We had an unexpected issue lately that shook our relationship a bit, and he stated that there was a point at which he questioned staying with me. For some people, this might not work. For us it does. He'll say if I'm being lazy, if I'm rationalizing bad behavior, and it's OK. I might agree, I might not, but it's all fine.

It takes out the guesswork. I like my relationship in easy mode.

[Opti]

May 9, 2012 18:44:54 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

On the other thread somebody said they'd never told their SO even a white lie. Frankly, I find that hard to believe. Common courtesy pretty much requires us to lie here and there. Sharing a living space with somebody flat out does. Sometimes we ask questions expecting to be lied too, at least a little. It would be rude to actually be honest all the time.

Look, I've got mirrors in the house. It's not like I don't know that I don't look like a male model. When I get dressed up for a wedding or something, and ask the wife how I look, I want her to embellish the truth a bit. Probably because I'm slightly nervous and self conscious in the first place. If I wanted a brutally honest opinion of what I actually looked like I wouldn't be asking the misses in the first place, I'd just stand in front of the mirror for a few seconds. KWIM?

I guess we are pretty different on this. I don't ask someone what I look like in hopes of fishing for a compliment. Sometimes I get compliments, sometimes I don't. I don't really remember asking the man in my life all that often how I looked. It was probably just as uncommon on the other side as well.

Now, yes there are things we all are insecure about and I handle those questions differently. One guy for reasons I will never understand was insecure about his size. His size was perfectly fine so sometimes I did get annoyed reassuring him, but no lying needed - I liked the size he was.

Maybe some of us only ask questions we really want the answers to?

[Sum Dum Gai]

I don't really remember asking the man in my life all that often how I looked. It was probably just as uncommon on the other side as well.

It was the first example that popped into my head, and I agree it's not a great one. It's kind of funny, but the wife and I rarely ask that type of question and usually when we aren't feeling a particular outfit anyway. I have no problem with her saying it's not a great look, because I already felt that way before I got her opinion.

I'll try to come up with a better example, but I still say common courtesy pretty much requires little white lies here and there.

[Peace Of Mind]

Wait. So we're not supposed to call our partner fat when they're fat, that they stink when they stink, and that when they grilled the hamburgers to hockey pucks we're supposed to smile and choke it down?! What about head locks when they don't do what you ask them to do?




<<runs to ask DH why he's stayed with me for 25 years>>

[Miss Tequila]

Hmm....my husband is pretty honest. If I ask if something makes me look fat, he will tell me when it does. For example, I have fairly big boobs so anything that is not form fitting makes me look heavier because a looser shirt will hang from my boobs and give the illusion of a stomach (think baby doll camis). If I put one on and asked my husband if it made me look fat, he would tell me yes, it makes me look like i have a belly when I don't really.
I would rather him tell me the truth than have me going out looking like I"m 4 months pregnant.

I guess because I'm not really fat I don't take offense? or because he is saying it's the shirt making me look fat versus me just looking like a cow?

But I will admit to lies over the years. I think anyone that claims to never had lied is..well..lying!lol

[Miss Tequila]

May 9, 2012 19:15:49 GMT -5 Peace Of Mind said:

we're supposed to smile and choke it down?!



<<runs to ask DH why he's stayed with me for 25 years>>

Well, I'm sure they'd prefer we didn't choke on it...those gagging sounds kind of ruin the mood

[Miss Tequila]

Some might say me buying a house in florida without telling my husband was a lie of ommission

[Peace Of Mind]

May 9, 2012 19:18:37 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

May 9, 2012 19:15:49 GMT -5 Peace Of Mind said:

Well, I'm sure they'd prefer we didn't choke on it...those gagging sounds kind of ruin the mood

I agree. It always turns me off when he makes those sounds when I put him in a head lock. Men. They can be such wussies!

[Malarky]

May 9, 2012 19:19:17 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Some might say me buying a house in florida without telling my husband was a lie of ommission

Have you told him yet?

[lurkyloo]

I don't think I've ever lied to DH. But I have avoided bringing up topics when I felt that there was nothing to be gained by discussing it (e.g. I've referred obliquely to having dated other people before we got together; he's never asked for more detail so I've never provided it.) I'm fairly confident he's also never lied to me, but then he's the master of harmless deflections.

I have trouble with lying in the first place. I think that's pretty typical for scientists--not universal, but typical. We spend so much time and effort trying to get at the truth and all subtleties thereof, we wind up with a healthy respect for truth and reality too. I'm working on the graceful evasion though, primarily for the work setting.

Neither of us would ever be so rude to each other as the gratuitous #2 or #3 in the OP.

[Miss Tequila]

May 9, 2012 19:24:21 GMT -5 Malarky said:

May 9, 2012 19:19:17 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Some might say me buying a house in florida without telling my husband was a lie of ommission

Have you told him yet?

Yeah, a few months after I bought it...we have separate finances so to me it was no different than buying stocks or some other investment. He wasn't upset...just thought I was nuts for buying a house I had never seen (and still haven't!)....I bought a second house and told him the day I closed. If I buy a third, maybe i will actually tell him beforehand!lol

[justme]

Is it really that uncommon for someone to ask a question and expect not to be lied to? I expect an honest answer otherwise why the hell would I ask? I know everyone's not that way, but the majority would prefer to be lied to? (Maybe that's why I'm single )

And, to be perfectly honest, a partner would be exactly who I'd want to ask how I looked in a outfit. Presumably they find me attractive in most circumstances so if I'm wearing something that they think isn't good it's probably pretty bad.

[busymom]

In this situation, the rule would be: Be Kind!


The wife would be better off asking: do I look better right now in the blue dress, or the black dress?


I'll never forget the first time I went to the mall after delivering DD, I saw a woman in her 50's who had the "perfect" body. Flat stomach, no loose skin, just looked great. And here I was, fresh out of the hospital, carrying that extra weight, and still sore (stitches). Who needs that?

[Waffle]

In general I believe it's better and easier to tell the truth. But, I don't believe it's always necessary, or wise to tell the whole truth.

[hoops902]

I'd tell her she looks fat if she looked fat. Hell I already tell her when she's getting a zit, when I spot a grey hair, and when a shirt makes her chest look small.

And that's with her being too smart to actually ask me.

[Deleted]

And I thought Dark was a jerk!

[Peace Of Mind]

May 9, 2012 20:01:10 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

I'd tell her she looks fat if she looked fat. Hell I already tell her when she's getting a zit, when I spot a grey hair, and when a shirt makes her chest look small.

And that's with her being too smart to actually ask me.

<<swoon>> and then gets extra life insurance on Hoops.

[midjd]

I don't think I've ever lied to DH. But I have avoided bringing up topics when I felt that there was nothing to be gained by discussing it (e.g. I've referred obliquely to having dated other people before we got together; he's never asked for more detail so I've never provided it.)

Same here. DH does not want to hear a word about any of my past relationships so there are things I'm sure he doesn't know, but I've never directly lied to him (and I wouldn't). He just doesn't ask about some things. We've been good friends since we were 12 so we know each other pretty well by now. And he knows not to ask anything to which he doesn't want to know the answer, I will say "yes, you look fat."

And DH is pretty much incapable of lying - if you ask him something he doesn't want to answer honestly he just freezes. He also tends to volunteer information that doesn't help his case (he would be a TERRIBLE client for a defense attorney). It probably sounds naive, but I don't even think about him lying to me. He doesn't have it in him.

Hoops, your wife is a lucky woman