How expensive can a divorce be

[Wisconsin Beth]

Which is why they need counseling - individual and couples.

[Firebird]

I would feel a little misled & betrayed if I thought we had the understanding that we would have kids around 25 & then at 27 the guy is still trying to put it off for several more years. Not sure if this is the case, but something to consider.

OK, read this again and substitute HIM in this sentence - bc even though he "technically" have not lied, he changed his mind quite a bit. Should she still trust HIM?

What's the alternative - to have a kid you no longer feel ready to have because you promised?

In most areas, I'm all for keeping to your word. I think it's extremely important for your partner to know they can trust you to do what you say you will. But this is one of the rare exceptions because bringing a child into the world is just TOO important. You CAN'T do it before you feel reasonably ready, no matter what you promised or who else wants you to do it.

I think you need to be honest with your spouse as soon as you know that you might not feel ready by the time the proposed timeline rolls around. Certainly they have a right to know that the game has changed, as Angel put it.

But some of you seem to be forgetting about the fact that we're talking about a child, a human life. You can't just live in that state for awhile because you promised your spouse you would, and then move on. You can't just buy that trinket because you promised your spouse you would, and then ignore it. You can't just adopt that puppy because you promised your spouse you would, and then give it back when it's not working out.

This is FOREVER. No one should do it before they're ready. And this is actually why I don't advocate spouses making promises in this department unless they're dead sure they want kids NOW and there's only a logistical tangle or two in their way.

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

May 10, 2012 12:07:38 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

I wouldn't be able to trust her to stick to any kind of proposed goal or timetable at this point.

OK, read this again and substitute HIM in this sentence - bc even though he "technically" have not lied, he changed his mind quite a bit. Should she still trust HIM?

Lena

He's changed his mind on administrative issues... the baby thing is a major lifetime committment. Apples and oranges.

[midjd]

And that would be a fair point for her to make if they were having a discussion about when to have kids. But now they need to have a discussion about her going behind his back to get what she wants, and him moving the goal posts really has no place in that discussion, IMO.

True, separate issues. There need to be a LOT of discussions. But I can see the conversation going, "Well, I wouldn't have tricked you if you hadn't kept pushing back kids and changing your mind..." For Mrs. C., the two issues may be very related.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

May 10, 2012 12:00:42 GMT -5 Bob Ross said:

Regardless of who wants what when, the two of them having a kid now, on C's income alone, with his wife as a SAHM, with her lifestyle choices, and her SL, is not a sustainable possibility no matter how you cut it.

Can anyone say Doxie?

[whoisjohngalt]

Yes, he has waffled. But I hear no more than yes.

"we" hear no more than yes, on HERE, YM -the imaginary world where everyone is responsible financially and otherwise. Who knows what his wife hears in the real world where she gives him toe-curling sex and he forgets that they have SL and cc debt, kwim?

Lena

[Taxman10]

May 10, 2012 11:57:10 GMT -5 swamp said:

May 10, 2012 11:52:34 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

...:::"I think it's a little depressing that despite dozens of threads in which dozens of women have told him NOT ALL WOMEN ARE LIKE YOUR WIFE, he doesn't seem to believe it...":::...

I'd abandon my beliefs if they weren't constantly proven right.

I think you just managed to offend Athena, Pink, Angel, DQ, Sesfw, Beach, Beerwench, Miss Tequila, Thyme, QQ, and every other sane, rational, thoughtful, and intelligent woman who is part of this community.

There are more, but those are just the ones that popped into my head.

fixed that for you.

Miss T is sane, rational, thoughtful, and intelligent??

LOL LOL ROTFLOL!!

oh my...

Swamp, you're so pretty

[whoisjohngalt]

OK, FB and SF - HE IS NOT!!!! UPSET ABOUT THE BABY, HE WOULD BE HAPPY WITH THE BABY!!!!!!!!!

Life altering thing only bothers you, NOT HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Which, btw, is VERY telling where his head is, bc any person who doesn't want kids, REALLY doesn't want kids, would be much much much more upset about possibility of having a kid than a lying incident. Lying has come and gone, kids are FOREVER

Lena

[skubikky]

Is it possible that Portia(Mrs. C) has always been selfish and has demonstrated that in many ways over the time she and Carl have been together? She's a proven entity to Carl.

Maybe attempting to get pregnant was probably not outside the realm of what she would consider doing if Carl really thought about it. In other words I think deep down that Carl has always known his wife's personality and what she'd be willing to do to get something that she's been coveting....though this is a much bigger issue than a new purse. Facing the reality of it is another thing.

It's easy for us to make big pronouncements here on the boards, we don't have any skin in the game. But, this is his marriage and he's been faced with a very harsh reality in what Portia did.

Hey, even SF's beloved sweetie is just another neurotic and selfish boomer dame.

[whoisjohngalt]

Oh and SF - he change his mind about baby as well - a few months ago condoms were out, and than back in again

Lena

[Angel!]

May 10, 2012 11:58:21 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

...:::"why don't you make this about financial stability instead of time? Set a tangible financial goal - one that will make you feel better about having a kid. Then agree that when you reach it, you can TTC. Maybe that will help her to reign in her COL and spending.":::...

Why bother? He tried compromising and she lied. Whats the point of setting goals when one person is just going to fail to hold up her part?

To be fair neither party is making those goals a priority. I think carl has this idea that if they are financially ready, then he will feel emotionally ready for a kid. It doesn't work that way & you can always find reasons why you aren't ready.

He says he has been clear on these goals, but for how long? When were these goals created & why isn't he/they working harder to reach them? She wants a baby now & he says they can have one after X, then do X already!

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

May 10, 2012 12:10:05 GMT -5 midjd said:

And that would be a fair point for her to make if they were having a discussion about when to have kids. But now they need to have a discussion about her going behind his back to get what she wants, and him moving the goal posts really has no place in that discussion, IMO.

True, separate issues. There need to be a LOT of discussions. But I can see the conversation going, "Well, I wouldn't have tricked you if you hadn't kept pushing back kids and changing your mind..." For Mrs. C., the two issues may be very related.

Having a child is not a necessary function in life. No one needs to have a child.

Doctoring a drink to get C drunk and getting him to have sex and get her pregnant is just like a guy slipping something into a woman's drink and then having sex with her. No different.

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

May 10, 2012 12:14:35 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

Oh and SF - he change his mind about baby as well - a few months ago condoms were out, and than back in again

Lena

He changed his mind. He is entitled.

Counselors offices are packed to the gills with married couples were the wife decides that sex is no longer part of the relationship.

[Deleted]

Enough of this. There's no place for this sort of nonsense in this thread, or on this board. Cut it out. mmhmm, P&M Moderator

[Taxman10]

The post to which this one speaks was deleted. mmhmm, P&M Moderator

[Angel!]

May 10, 2012 11:55:23 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

All of you getting mad about the ketchup example need to remember that he is simply being clear of his expectations up front. If the genders were reversed and a woman was stating her beliefs up front, she'd be applauded.

No, if a woman came on here & told us that she told her husband she would divorce if they ever ran out of ketchup, we would tell her she is a moron headed for divorce. There are reasonable expectations that should be made clear & then idiotic expectations.

[Miss Tequila]

"Miss T is sane, rational, thoughtful, and intelligent"

Aww...thanks Taxi....

<kicks him in the nuts on my way out of the thread> :-p

[973beachbum]

May 10, 2012 12:14:55 GMT -5 Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ said:

May 10, 2012 12:10:05 GMT -5 midjd said:

True, separate issues. There need to be a LOT of discussions. But I can see the conversation going, "Well, I wouldn't have tricked you if you hadn't kept pushing back kids and changing your mind..." For Mrs. C., the two issues may be very related.

Having a child is not a necessary function in life. No one needs to have a child.

Doctoring a drink to get C drunk and getting him to have sex and get her pregnant is just like a guy slipping something into a woman's drink and then having sex with her. No different.

But Mrs C not only didn't do that she wasn't the person who even mentioned it. It was Carl's cousin.

[Deleted]

May 10, 2012 11:57:10 GMT -5 swamp said:

May 10, 2012 11:52:34 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

...:::"I think it's a little depressing that despite dozens of threads in which dozens of women have told him NOT ALL WOMEN ARE LIKE YOUR WIFE, he doesn't seem to believe it...":::...

I'd abandon my beliefs if they weren't constantly proven right.

I think you just managed to offend Athena, Pink, Angel, DQ, Sesfw, Beach, Beerwench, Miss Tequila, Thyme, QQ, and every other sane, rational, thoughtful, and intelligent woman who is part of this community.

There are more, but those are just the ones that popped into my head.

what about me?



oh wait, it said sane...

[Bob Ross]

Leave this garbage off the board. Thanks. mmhmm, P&M Moderator

[swamp]

Counselors offices are packed to the gills with married couples were the wife decides that sex is no longer part of the relationship.

Wow..........

I don't even want to know why you believe this.................

[Deleted]

May 10, 2012 12:09:54 GMT -5 Firebird said:

I would feel a little misled & betrayed if I thought we had the understanding that we would have kids around 25 & then at 27 the guy is still trying to put it off for several more years. Not sure if this is the case, but something to consider.

OK, read this again and substitute HIM in this sentence - bc even though he "technically" have not lied, he changed his mind quite a bit. Should she still trust HIM?

What's the alternative - to have a kid you no longer feel ready to have because you promised?

In most areas, I'm all for keeping to your word. I think it's extremely important for your partner to know they can trust you to do what you say you will. But this is one of the rare exceptions because bringing a child into the world is just TOO important. You CAN'T do it before you feel reasonably ready, no matter what you promised or who else wants you to do it.

I think you need to be honest with your spouse as soon as you know that you might not feel ready by the time the proposed timeline rolls around. Certainly they have a right to know that the game has changed, as Angel put it.

But some of you seem to be forgetting about the fact that we're talking about a child, a human life. You can't just live in that state for awhile because you promised your spouse you would, and then move on. You can't just buy that trinket because you promised your spouse you would, and then ignore it. You can't just adopt that puppy because you promised your spouse you would, and then give it back when it's not working out.

This is FOREVER. No one should do it before they're ready. And this is actually why I don't advocate spouses making promises in this department unless they're dead sure they want kids NOW and there's only a logistical tangle or two in their way.

if he can't say when he'll be comfortable having kids, he needs to tell her that IMMEDIATELY and make it crystal clear.

[Miss Tequila]

"Counselors offices are packed to the gills with married couples were the wife decides that sex is no longer part of the relationship. "

BS...perhaps the offices are filled because the husbands can no longer get it up...I don't know any woman that would willingly not have sex....here's a little secret, we like it too!

[Deleted]

I spoke to this issue with the first deletion. No more. mmhmm, P&M Moderator

[Miss Tequila]

Jen...grrr...I just dryheaved thinking about that OTHER video that Matt convinced me to google...

[Deleted]

Let me know if "bobbatter" is a better condiment than ketchup!

[Deleted]

May 10, 2012 12:25:28 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

"Counselors offices are packed to the gills with married couples were the wife decides that sex is no longer part of the relationship. "

BS...perhaps the offices are filled because the husbands can no longer get it up...I don't know any woman that would willingly not have sex....here's a little secret, we like it too!

not all guys know how to do it right.

[Bob Ross]

Already covered this. mmhmm, P&M Moderator

[Firebird]

OK, FB and SF - HE IS NOT!!!! UPSET ABOUT THE BABY, HE WOULD BE HAPPY WITH THE BABY!!!!!!!!!

If that were so, then he would have been okay with trying right now and wouldn't have still been using condoms - ever.

There's a difference between being "okay with and sorta happy about" an accident and "ready and excited to try for children." I know because I've been in both stages of readiness and I still would have been furious if someone had manufactured an accident when I was still in the first stage.

[justme]

May 10, 2012 12:13:35 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

OK, FB and SF - HE IS NOT!!!! UPSET ABOUT THE BABY, HE WOULD BE HAPPY WITH THE BABY!!!!!!!!!

Life altering thing only bothers you, NOT HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Which, btw, is VERY telling where his head is, bc any person who doesn't want kids, REALLY doesn't want kids, would be much much much more upset about possibility of having a kid than a lying incident. Lying has come and gone, kids are FOREVER

Lena

Actually, I took his comment as saying he'd be ok with a TRUE accident. Afterall, anyone who has sex has to be ok with a TRUE accident happening and being able to deal with it. And in most marriages "dealing" with an accident means having the kid. I didn't necessarily take it that he'd be OK knowing what he knows now if his wife actually got knocked up ON PURPOSE by lying to him about ovulating.

It could go either way, but I read it the exact opposite of you.