How expensive can a divorce be

[Deleted]

May 10, 2012 12:27:30 GMT -5 Bob Ross said:

May 10, 2012 12:25:42 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

send it to me at [e-mail].

Will do. I'll have to wait a few hours for the burrito to digest, though.

Also, it's not really a C. It's more of a bucket.

I think I'll stick with ketchup.

[Angel!]

May 10, 2012 12:13:35 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

Life altering thing only bothers you, NOT HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, but the deception about something life altering bothers him a lot. And you are overlooking that with this idea that the ends justify the means.

Really, if she had gotten pregnant & learned this 5 years down the road I bet he would still be pissed. It has nothing to do with loving the kid, but feeling deceived by the person you should be able to trust most.

[Firebird]

Oh and SF - he change his mind about baby as well - a few months ago condoms were out, and than back in again

Which means he decided he wasn't ready after all.

I can appreciate this would be frustrating for Mrs. C - believe me, I understand babywant and if I believed in God I would be thanking him on a daily basis that DH had it at the same time I did - but that doesn't justify her lying to him.

[swamp]

May 10, 2012 12:27:18 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

May 10, 2012 12:25:28 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

"Counselors offices are packed to the gills with married couples were the wife decides that sex is no longer part of the relationship. "

BS...perhaps the offices are filled because the husbands can no longer get it up...I don't know any woman that would willingly not have sex....here's a little secret, we like it too!

not all guys know how to do it right.

But we don't like it with guys who are being douchebags, so maybe these women aren't putting out because they aren't getting along?

[quotequeen]

May 10, 2012 12:10:05 GMT -5 midjd said:

And that would be a fair point for her to make if they were having a discussion about when to have kids. But now they need to have a discussion about her going behind his back to get what she wants, and him moving the goal posts really has no place in that discussion, IMO.

True, separate issues. There need to be a LOT of discussions. But I can see the conversation going, "Well, I wouldn't have tricked you if you hadn't kept pushing back kids and changing your mind..." For Mrs. C., the two issues may be very related.

Oh I'm certain they are related for her. Which is why she still doesn't realize that she's done anything wrong. And if they are going to stay together then yes, they have an awful lot of conversations to have.

But she needs to realize that right now, when they are going to have a baby is not really on the table because they first need to decide if they still want to have kids with each other at all.

[Firebird]

if he can't say when he'll be comfortable having kids, he needs to tell her that IMMEDIATELY and make it crystal clear.

I agree, MJ (said that in my post too). Then she can decide whether to wait around or not. I wouldn't presume to decide that for anyone.

But the correct response to "I'm not ready for kids just yet, even though I wouldn't kill myself if we had an accident" is not "Oh he doesn't really know what he wants, I'm just going to go for it without his consent and make it look like an accident and he'll be fine."

[Firebird]

May 10, 2012 12:27:30 GMT -5 Bob Ross said:

May 10, 2012 12:25:42 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

send it to me at [e-mail].

Will do. I'll have to wait a few hours for the burrito to digest, though.

Also, it's not really a C. It's more of a bucket.

Can I respectfully request that we knock it off with this crap? It adds nothing to the discussion and I personally find it off-putting. I don't object to off-topic posts to a certain extent but I don't like obscene. I think this is better suited to another thread.

[Deleted]

May 10, 2012 12:29:50 GMT -5 swamp said:

May 10, 2012 12:27:18 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

not all guys know how to do it right.

But we don't like it with guys who are being douchebags, so maybe these women aren't putting out because they aren't getting along?

well that would mean the man is in the wrong, and we know that can't be right.....

[973beachbum]

May 10, 2012 12:29:50 GMT -5 swamp said:

May 10, 2012 12:27:18 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

not all guys know how to do it right.

But we don't like it with guys who are being douchebags, so maybe these women aren't putting out because they aren't getting along?

she is supposed to close her eyes and think of England.

[Firebird]

I don't take offense at the "selfish women" post. Some women (and some men) ARE selfish. I've known women who give to their family until it hurts, leaving themselves NOTHING. And, I've met women where it's "all about MEEEEEEE!" The latest fashions, going into the salon EVERY WEEK for hair, nails, whatever. Nevermind that their bills aren't getting paid. Nevermind that Grandma, or someone else is dealing with their kids. Because baby, it's all about me!!! What attracts men to these trainwrecks, I'll never understand....

We all know women LIKE that, the part some of us object to is lumping ALL women in that category because SOME fit the description.

You can find examples of assholes and unscrupulous philanderers in both genders, and it's wrong to use them as examples of why either gender is "all" this or "all" that.

[Deleted]

May 10, 2012 12:38:00 GMT -5 Firebird said:

I don't take offense at the "selfish women" post. Some women (and some men) ARE selfish. I've known women who give to their family until it hurts, leaving themselves NOTHING. And, I've met women where it's "all about MEEEEEEE!" The latest fashions, going into the salon EVERY WEEK for hair, nails, whatever. Nevermind that their bills aren't getting paid. Nevermind that Grandma, or someone else is dealing with their kids. Because baby, it's all about me!!! What attracts men to these trainwrecks, I'll never understand....

We all know women LIKE that, the part some of us object to is lumping ALL women in that category because SOME fit the description.

You can find examples of assholes and unscrupulous philanderers in both genders, and it's wrong to use them as examples of why either gender is "all" this or "all" that.

stop with all that sense-making!!!!

[Firebird]

I personally don't feel that their issues are unsurmountable. With counseling and guidance their marriage can be saved and I am a big advocate of that.

Who isn't? But the day DH decides that the best way to deal with us disagreeing over an issue, especially one this important, is to trick me into doing what he wants is more than likely going to be the same day I lose all respect and trust for him. I have no idea if our marriage could be salvaged after that.

I don't think anyone is saying cawiau is blameless here - it takes two people to make a good marriage for sure - but I still think her lying to him is a WAY more egregious sin than she seems to want to admit to herself. I don't care how much she wanted a baby. Nothing justified that.

[swamp]

May 10, 2012 12:36:10 GMT -5 973beachbum said:

May 10, 2012 12:29:50 GMT -5 swamp said:

But we don't like it with guys who are being douchebags, so maybe these women aren't putting out because they aren't getting along?

she is supposed to close her eyes and think of England.

and that would make for some really crappy marital relations...............

[Opti]

May 10, 2012 12:18:33 GMT -5 Angel! said:

May 10, 2012 11:55:23 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

All of you getting mad about the ketchup example need to remember that he is simply being clear of his expectations up front. If the genders were reversed and a woman was stating her beliefs up front, she'd be applauded.

No, if a woman came on here & told us that she told her husband she would divorce if they ever ran out of ketchup, we would tell her she is a moron headed for divorce. There are reasonable expectations that should be made clear & then idiotic expectations.

Agreed. Dumbass expectations about useless stuff is nothing to be applauded or condoned from either gender. Wouldn't matter to me whether it was a woman or a man with ketchup issues they were willing to get divorced over. I'd still think they were an emotionally immature idiot.

[aliciar6]

May 10, 2012 7:24:19 GMT -5 wvugurl26 said:

They haven't been married for ten years either. Together for ten years but not married that long. Having a kid is a big deal and timing of kids is not a decision to be made by one spouse. And you know if the wife was on here saying that and said she had $100k in student loans, YM would rip her to pieces for thinking about having a baby and being a SAHM with that kind of debt load.

Whatever our opinions are on the method, they agreed on how they would handle birth control. Then she purposely told him she wasn't fertile when she was. That is lying.

What she did was a big deal to caiwau and she can't or won't see that. Hopefully a good counselor can help them work through it.

+1 couldn't say it better myself.

it IS a BIG deal and it was a major breach of trust in my book

[Firebird]

- I am not making it an age thing, and I told her already:
-> credit card gone
-> my car loan gone
-> at least 15k in savings

That's hardly an unreasonable target and if it's taking longer to get there than Mrs. C would prefer, that still doesn't justify faking an accident.

[Firebird]

- She knows my stance about her being a stay at home parent and it hasn't change in 4 years married: ain't gonna happen. Temporarily after the baby is born (up to a year) I am ok with, permanently? NO! Last week I reiterate it and she called me a selfish jerk.

Does she even realize how unreasonable that sounds when she has $100k in student loans left to pay off? How entitled is it for her to just expect that she gets to sit home while you take care of that little problem for her?

[973beachbum]

May 10, 2012 12:41:30 GMT -5 swamp said:

May 10, 2012 12:36:10 GMT -5 973beachbum said:

she is supposed to close her eyes and think of England.

and that would make for some really crappy marital relations...............

Since when does that matter? SF just said that they wouldn't have marital relations not that we had to like it.

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"Or maybe its just if you are a woman in WWBG's world you aren't supposed to ever get your way unless of course it agrees with what your man wants.":::...

So its better to just fake-agree, then go behind his back to get your way. Perfect. Remember, cawiau and Mrs. C both compromised to agree on a timeline. She wanted them NOW. He wanted to be totally debt free. They compromised on "cars paid off". That still wasn't good enough for her.

...:::"WWBG can't seem to grasp that his wife is not representative of all women in general.":::...

Mrs. C's actions aren't helping you out either.

...:::"I distinctly remembered the threads about fighting about the wedding, her mother buying her what he wouldn't buy, yadda, yadda, yadda. They each knew what they were getting.":::...

See, this is exactly what I am saying. C and I both know our women are selfish and we agreed to live with it. We shouldn't be surprised when they act in accordance with their nature (though we don't have to celebrate it either). Its a reminder not to get complacent.

[quotequeen]

May 10, 2012 12:51:05 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

See, this is exactly what I am saying. C and I both know our women are selfish and we agreed to live with it. We shouldn't be surprised when they act in accordance with their nature (though we don't have to celebrate it either). Its a reminder not to get complacent.

No, instead you should see it as an excuse to be a total jackass.

[swamp]

See, this is exactly what I am saying. C and I both know our women are selfish and we agreed to live with it. We shouldn't be surprised when they act in accordance with their nature (though we don't have to celebrate it either). Its a reminder not to get complacent.

Yes, your wives are selfish and it's your issue to deal with. It doesn't mean every woman is selfish.

...:::"WWBG can't seem to grasp that his wife is not representative of all women in general.":::...

Mrs. C's actions aren't helping you out either.

Knock it off. I am nothing like her, and I'd probably want to smack her if I spent more than a few hours with her, because I don't do "entitled princess."

[Miss Tequila]

"See, this is exactly what I am saying. C and I both know our women are selfish and we agreed to live with it. We shouldn't be surprised when they act in accordance with their nature (though we don't have to celebrate it either). Its a reminder not to get complacent. "

This might seem like a dumb question...but you JUST married this woman?? WTF would you marry her if she is so awful? the way you talk about her, she sounds fat, lazy, selfish..oh, and you never get laid....so dude, that's your stupidity for marrying her in the first place!

[Firebird]

May 10, 2012 11:10:32 GMT -5 wvugurl26 said:

A child is a huge responsibility. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be prepared financially. He has concrete goals of what he wants to have before they start trying to have a kid. He's not throwing some wishy washy I want to be set financially statement out there.

Exactly. If she wants a baby so damn bad, you'd think that reaching the financial benchmarks that make her husband feel more comfortable with the idea would be a higher priority for her.

If they reached those benchmarks and then he said "sorry, still not ready, now I want $100k in savings," then I could understand her being upset.

But originally I had a baby plan for me and DH (to which he had agreed). I wanted all of our debt gone (not a terribly substantial amount) and a reasonable EF. We ended up ripping that plan up, which was okay because we decided it TOGETHER. It wasn't the smartest financial decision but we both wanted a baby and decided to hell with our previously agreed upon benchmarks.

If he had thrown away or tampered with my birth control because he decided he didn't want to wait any longer and I would be fine because it would just work out somehow... well, it's like Dark said, he better take that secret with him to the damn grave. Even though it's the same conclusion we reached together, he would have had no business reaching implementing it alone without my consent.

[Firebird]

...:::"WWBG can't seem to grasp that his wife is not representative of all women in general.":::...

Mrs. C's actions aren't helping you out either.

Yeah and most of us have acknowledged that she is making us look bad. It's still not fair to say we're all alike. Two selfish women do not an entire gender make.

[aliciar6]

May 10, 2012 9:36:53 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

I will freely admit that I am being selfish.

That is where the D word came up. She wants one now or at least know we would start trying within the next year, while I am not sure I want to start trying within the next 3.

Unfair for her to force me into it and unfair for me to keep her from her dream of being a mom before she turns 30.

Can we find a middle ground? I don't know.

I'm not sure that i see what you are doing as being selfish, you are trying to make sure you are in a good spot financially, maybe not the perfect spot, but something better than now and to have kids when you are ready.

to me that is smart, not selfish. You aren't saying "never" or 5 years or 10 years. you know that eventually you will have kids, but to have them when you both aren't on the same page can potentially make things worse overall.

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"Talking to a counselor might help her see that her spending is one of the things preventing her from getting the lifestyle she wants.":::...

No it isn't... cawiau's earning power, and/or sense of financial responsibility is what is keeping her from the lifestyle she wants. She could have it if he was willing to let her rack up the CCs, or if he was an attorney making $175k/year and never questioning her spending.

This is how my wife approaches some problems: if it can be solved entirely through someone ELSE doing the work, then that is what she wants. Sure, she "agrees" to do things my way, or we compromise SOMETIMES. But I should never deceive myself into thinking she won't default to her true nature.

In fact, she's dropped the "I wish I could stay at home" tidbit a few times. I should probably expect that she intends to quit her job one day, or worse... "get downsized" *wink*.

[midjd]

...:::"WWBG can't seem to grasp that his wife is not representative of all women in general.":::...

Mrs. C's actions aren't helping you out either.

So the actions of two women are supposed to be representative of the entire gender?

Does that mean I get to take Doxie's ex and current H as examples and say that means all men are douchebags?

Your comments really do sadden me, because I like you and I can't understand how someone who is obviously very intelligent can infer so much into an entire gender based on the actions of (I'm assuming) one woman...

But I should never deceive myself into thinking she won't default to her true nature.

Why did you marry her?

[justme]

C and I both know our women are selfish and we agreed to live with it.

Well, that sure seems logical. Except it seems neither seem OK when they are selfish, if you agreed to it you should be OK with their selfishness.

[swamp]

This is how my wife approaches some problems: if it can be solved entirely through someone ELSE doing the work, then that is what she wants

Oh, honey, what were you thinking?

[Wisconsin Beth]

May 10, 2012 12:57:48 GMT -5 Firebird said:

May 10, 2012 11:10:32 GMT -5 wvugurl26 said:

A child is a huge responsibility. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be prepared financially. He has concrete goals of what he wants to have before they start trying to have a kid. He's not throwing some wishy washy I want to be set financially statement out there.

Exactly. If she wants a baby so damn bad, you'd think that reaching the financial benchmarks that make her husband feel more comfortable with the idea would be a higher priority for her.

If they reached those benchmarks and then he said "sorry, still not ready, now I want $100k in savings," then I could understand her being upset.

But originally I had a baby plan for me and DH (to which he had agreed). I wanted all of our debt gone (not a terribly substantial amount) and a reasonable EF. We ended up ripping that plan up, which was okay because we decided it TOGETHER. It wasn't the smartest financial decision but we both wanted a baby and decided to hell with our previously agreed upon benchmarks.

If he had thrown away or tampered with my birth control because he decided he didn't want to wait any longer and I would be fine because it would just work out somehow... well, it's like Dark said, he better take that secret with him to the damn grave. Even though it's the same conclusion we reached together, he would have had no business reaching it alone without my consent.

He would have had no business implementing it alone without FB's consent.
I don't have a problem with Mrs C reaching the conclusion that now's a good time to have a kid. WHICH MEANS IT WAS TIME TO HAVE A FREAKING DISCUSSION WITH CARL ABOUT IT. I had regular discussions with DH about our fertility problems, EVEN THOUGH WE AGREED WE WERE GOOD WITHOUT KIDS, because I wanted to make sure we were still on the same page. I didn't want to be 45 and have him say "let's have kids!"