How expensive can a divorce be

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

You've been together 10 yrs now. So, in the early years what was the discussion about kids & timing? Did she always have the idea that you would have kids around 25 & now you are going back & forth about having kids in the next 3-5 yrs? I would feel a little misled & betrayed if I thought we had the understanding that we would have kids around 25 & then at 27 the guy is still trying to put it off for several more years. Not sure if this is the case, but something to consider.

But they have only been married a couple years.

From what I remember, Carl has been pretty consistent about when he wants to be a dad. He wants their debt paid down a bit. That has never changed and his wife has the ability to help with that, but it sounds like she does a bit of sabotaging that goal with her shopping.

[swamp]

May 10, 2012 9:30:38 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

...:::"You left your balls at home, didnt you?":::...

No, I did it to be a "nice" and "supportive" guy. I should have just turned the game up as loud as it took to drown her out. She can count. She knows how many are left in the box. She has money. She has working legs. She should have taken measures to walk her lazy butt across the street before this became an issue.

Remember the poster who told his wife "we can run out of ketchup 3 times in our lives before I divorce you". There were always extra bottles of ketchup.

And apparently you left your sense of humor at home today and replaced it with the "touchy" button.

[Miss Tequila]

"I hope you don't. For purely selfish reasons, of course. Your posts, are both clever and funny and since I don't go on EE, I would miss out "

Aww...thanks Lena

[Deleted]

May 10, 2012 10:12:25 GMT -5 swamp said:

May 10, 2012 9:30:38 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

...:::"You left your balls at home, didnt you?":::...

No, I did it to be a "nice" and "supportive" guy. I should have just turned the game up as loud as it took to drown her out. She can count. She knows how many are left in the box. She has money. She has working legs. She should have taken measures to walk her lazy butt across the street before this became an issue.

Remember the poster who told his wife "we can run out of ketchup 3 times in our lives before I divorce you". There were always extra bottles of ketchup.

And apparently you left your sense of humor at home today and replaced it with the "touchy" button.

it's called a clitoris.

[Deleted]

May 10, 2012 9:53:12 GMT -5 Opti said:

Exactly, and with women like our wives, things that they do to the end of getting their way are NEVER wrong.

If you want to spin it back on her, just keep telling her "no, this is what I want so this is what will happen." Don't compromise. Its the only language she speaks fluently.

So being a jerk to always get your way is right?!

LOL. I have a friend who thinks this is how things are suppose to work. He thinks he can impose his will on me and I'm suppose to accept it even though I'm clear that it's not acceptable. Then he wonders why we don't get along and why I won't have a real relationship with him.

I don't think that's the best advice WWBG. Not for a man that wants a woman with some kind of confidence in herself. Confident are willing to take a stand on issues that are important to them or try to find a compromise instead of just bowing down to what their man tells them is going to happen. For men that like passive women I guess that advice works.

[justme]

When it comes to having kids, one party should be able to unilaterally say no. One party should not be able to unilaterally say yes. The creation of another person is a whole different level of responsibility. If someone doesn't want that responsibility, or is not ready for it, it should not be thrust upon them. Mrs. C should decide if waiting is a deal-breaker for her and then act accordingly. She should not try to find a way to work around the no. This isn't similar to whether or not she upholds an agreement regarding sticking to an allowance. This is a game-changer.

Yes! I was waiting until I got through everything to post this, and I'm borrowing it from my favorite advice columnist Carolyn Hax, but the one situation where, hands down, a no trumps everything else is the decision when/if to have kids. Always. No exceptions. If the person saying yes feels strongly enough, they can leave but they cannot trick the other person into having a kid. She's had a few questions, but one was a husband whose wife went off BC to conceive a second child they agreed not to have. While he loves his second kid, he's now in the unenviable position of not being able to trust his wife or want to be with her but not wanting to limit his time with the kids the way a divorce would.

[swamp]

May 10, 2012 10:14:30 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

May 10, 2012 10:12:25 GMT -5 swamp said:

And apparently you left your sense of humor at home today and replaced it with the "touchy" button.

it's called a clitoris.

<<snort>>

[raeoflyte]

Oh good--another WWBG thinks all women are the devil thread... So glad I tuned in this morning.


I haven't read the whole thread, but Angel and Kari's posts struck a cord with me. I hope that cawiau will consider those possibilities, whether he chooses to share that with us or not.

[swamp]

Oh good--another WWBG thinks all women are the devil thread

With a side helping of SF's "women are all illogical freakshows"

[busymom]

I don't take offense at the "selfish women" post. Some women (and some men) ARE selfish. I've known women who give to their family until it hurts, leaving themselves NOTHING. And, I've met women where it's "all about MEEEEEEE!" The latest fashions, going into the salon EVERY WEEK for hair, nails, whatever. Nevermind that their bills aren't getting paid. Nevermind that Grandma, or someone else is dealing with their kids. Because baby, it's all about me!!! What attracts men to these trainwrecks, I'll never understand....

[swasat]

May 10, 2012 10:03:37 GMT -5 resolution said:

I think he has raised the bar on financial stability too many times at this point for that to work. I remember when he was trying to compromise to get her to agree to 15% going into retirement. She finally agreed, and then he got more money from somewhere else and was asking for advice on whether he should hide it from her to invest more. Then he wanted to raise the bar again to 25% of income to retirement, and she agreed again. Then he wanted to move into a cheaper apartment, and she agreed again. Then he wanted to split up and move away from her and live separately for more money and she agreed again. It seems like the idea of financial stability keeps going up and up.

I think she has finally hit her limit on agreeing to his priorities and he needs to seriously consider if he is willing to compromise and give her some of her priorities. I agree this issue of when to have kids is something that could be a deal breaker for them, and I hope that they get some counseling to help them decide if they can make a real compromise. I don't agree with her deception, but I think the more important issue is if their goals are even headed in the same direction at this point.

BINGO!!!! Thats exactly how I feel.

I have refrained from posting not his thread till now, although I have been keeping up.

Its all nice and easy to blame the missing party, but I do feel that Mrs C HAS adjusted a lot too. This is like the extra straw that broke the camel's back. They definite need couple counseling. Cawiau with his financial planning and Mrs C with her shopping obsession are two extremes. I personally don't feel that their issues are unsurmountable. With counseling and guidance their marriage can be saved and I am a big advocate of that.

[Deleted]

cawaui I wasn't in a hurry to have kids either and when I decided I was ready I couldn't. What is your back up plan if you leave it to the last minute and run into problems?

[swamp]

May 10, 2012 10:25:27 GMT -5 busymom said:

I don't take offense at the "selfish women" post. Some women (and some men) ARE selfish. I've known women who give to their family until it hurts, leaving themselves NOTHING. And, I've met women where it's "all about MEEEEEEE!" The latest fashions, going into the salon EVERY WEEK for hair, nails, whatever. Nevermind that their bills aren't getting paid. Nevermind that Grandma, or someone else is dealing with their kids. Because baby, it's all about me!!! What attracts men to these trainwrecks, I'll never understand....

There are selfish women out there, no doubt. Not all women are selfish, though. WWBG can't seem to grasp that his wife is not representative of all women in general.

[Angel!]

May 10, 2012 10:11:55 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

You've been together 10 yrs now. So, in the early years what was the discussion about kids & timing? Did she always have the idea that you would have kids around 25 & now you are going back & forth about having kids in the next 3-5 yrs? I would feel a little misled & betrayed if I thought we had the understanding that we would have kids around 25 & then at 27 the guy is still trying to put it off for several more years. Not sure if this is the case, but something to consider.

But they have only been married a couple years.

True, but most people have these conversations long before marriage & from other posts it sounds like they have been together 10 years. At some point, even in the early years, they had to have conversations about this stuff. If they didn't, well that could explain some of the problems now.

[swasat]

May 10, 2012 10:28:21 GMT -5 swamp said:

WWBG can't seem to grasp that his wife is not representative of all women in general.

Yep. Bitches and complains about her no end, chooses to extrapolate HER actions as ALL women and then goes aheads and marries her anyway.

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

May 10, 2012 10:28:21 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

cawaui I wasn't in a hurry to have kids either and when I decided I was ready I couldn't. What is your back up plan if you leave it to the last minute and run into problems?

A couple can always adopt.

[Opti]

May 10, 2012 10:18:58 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Oh good--another WWBG thinks all women are the devil thread... So glad I tuned in this morning.

Some things are predictable.

Pink, I love what you posted. I found it extremely funny that WWBG was so clear today it is OK to get your way over someone else if you are coming from a logical mindset but its not OK if you are apparently getting your way from an emotional mindset. Or maybe
its just if you are a woman in WWBG's world you aren't supposed to ever get your way unless of course it agrees with what your man wants.

[whoisjohngalt]

I wonder sometimes what ideas Cawaui or any other poster would have about finances, etc if they weren't part of YM.

Many on here have admitted that they saw and did things very differently after discovering YM.

Well, may be C changed after he joined and expected his wife to change too. Who knows, may be when they got together, they had the same ideas about spending/savings and he changed the game on her..... may be she thinks she is married to the original C, not the YM-changed one

Lena

[The J]

May 10, 2012 10:30:43 GMT -5 Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ said:

May 10, 2012 10:28:21 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

cawaui I wasn't in a hurry to have kids either and when I decided I was ready I couldn't. What is your back up plan if you leave it to the last minute and run into problems?

A couple can always adopt.

I think later's question is whether or not they're comfortable with that being the backup plan.

[swamp]

May 10, 2012 10:34:28 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

I wonder sometimes what ideas Cawaui or any other poster would have about finances, etc if they weren't part of YM.

Many on here have admitted that they saw and did things very differently after discovering YM.

Well, may be C changed after he joined and expected his wife to change too. Who knows, may be when they got together, they had the same ideas about spending/savings and he changed the game on her..... may be she thinks she is married to the original C, not the YM-changed one

Lena

He was on YM before they got married. I distinctly remembered the threads about fighting about the wedding, her mother buying her what he wouldn't buy, yadda, yadda, yadda.

They each knew what they were getting.

[973beachbum]

May 10, 2012 10:30:43 GMT -5 Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ said:

May 10, 2012 10:28:21 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

cawaui I wasn't in a hurry to have kids either and when I decided I was ready I couldn't. What is your back up plan if you leave it to the last minute and run into problems?

A couple can always adopt.

That is fine if you are okay with it although it can cost a lot of money and isn't as simple as saying I'll adopt and boom we get a kid.

But it assumes that she is okay with waiting until she can't have a child naturally anymore. I don't know Carl's wife but I doubt she is okay with that.

[whoisjohngalt]

Oh I know about the wedding, I was talking about when they first met - they ARE from the same culture, and were probably very similar....

I could be wrong, though......

Lena

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

May 10, 2012 10:39:27 GMT -5 swamp said:

May 10, 2012 10:34:28 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

I wonder sometimes what ideas Cawaui or any other poster would have about finances, etc if they weren't part of YM.

Many on here have admitted that they saw and did things very differently after discovering YM.

Well, may be C changed after he joined and expected his wife to change too. Who knows, may be when they got together, they had the same ideas about spending/savings and he changed the game on her..... may be she thinks she is married to the original C, not the YM-changed one

Lena

He was on YM before they got married. I distinctly remembered the threads about fighting about the wedding, her mother buying her what he wouldn't buy, yadda, yadda, yadda.

They each knew what they were getting.

[Epiphany]

May 10, 2012 10:27:17 GMT -5 swasat said:

May 10, 2012 10:03:37 GMT -5 resolution said:

I think he has raised the bar on financial stability too many times at this point for that to work. I remember when he was trying to compromise to get her to agree to 15% going into retirement. She finally agreed, and then he got more money from somewhere else and was asking for advice on whether he should hide it from her to invest more. Then he wanted to raise the bar again to 25% of income to retirement, and she agreed again. Then he wanted to move into a cheaper apartment, and she agreed again. Then he wanted to split up and move away from her and live separately for more money and she agreed again. It seems like the idea of financial stability keeps going up and up.

I think she has finally hit her limit on agreeing to his priorities and he needs to seriously consider if he is willing to compromise and give her some of her priorities. I agree this issue of when to have kids is something that could be a deal breaker for them, and I hope that they get some counseling to help them decide if they can make a real compromise. I don't agree with her deception, but I think the more important issue is if their goals are even headed in the same direction at this point.

BINGO!!!! Thats exactly how I feel.

I have refrained from posting not his thread till now, although I have been keeping up.

Its all nice and easy to blame the missing party, but I do feel that Mrs C HAS adjusted a lot too. This is like the extra straw that broke the camel's back. They definite need couple counseling. Cawiau with his financial planning and Mrs C with her shopping obsession are two extremes. I personally don't feel that their issues are unsurmountable. With counseling and guidance their marriage can be saved and I am a big advocate of that.

[Firebird]

So, if I were his wife and found out that my DH is talking about what kind of sex we have and when I am ovulating and how much money we make and about my mother and my cousin who died, etc etc etc - yeah, I would be "slightly" upset

That's a totally different issue but I agree with you, and have said so several times in the past. I would definitely have an issue with my partner spilling so much of our personal lives on YM that certain posters do.

I still think the missus is way ahead of Carl in the sleazebag contest, though. So he would have been okay with a genuine accident; so he might have been a little passive-aggressive about the birth control issue. That still gave her no right to lie to him and deliberately try for a baby when he had not agreed to that.

[Deleted]

- I never had an "age" for wanting to be a dad, it has always been when I felt financially stable/ready. At 25 we were in no shape to become parents.

- Either the money is going to go toward 401k or her student loans. Her current federal payments are based on 2010 when I was the only one working until september and gross income was 44k. 2012 we are looking at 100k+.

- I am not making it an age thing, and I told her already:
-> credit card gone
-> my car loan gone
-> at least 15k in savings

- She knows my stance about her being a stay at home parent and it hasn't change in 4 years married: ain't gonna happen. Temporarily after the baby is born (up to a year) I am ok with, permanently? NO! Last week I reiterate it and she called me a selfish jerk.

- my wife student loans payment are currently at about $650/month and before we went income based route they were $1,000/month.

- We could survive on my income alone but that would require some serious cutbacks that my wife would just balk at; if she wants to maintain a certain lifestyle she will need to work for it. A person that shops at Pier 1, Crate & Barrel, Pottery Barn and throwing herself an hors d'oeuvres / small bite party this Saturday will not be happy with the lifestyle a 52k/year income would provide with a kid thrown in the mix. Total costs for the party is about $400 so far but her mom is covering it so I am not concerned (girl only party/get together).

[Deleted]

[wvugurl26]

Freaking $400 for a party? For that kind of money there better be top shelf liquor flowing freely and damn good food. My stepbrother's a foodie and our multiple course Christmas Eve dinner for 20 ran about that much.

[midjd]

- Either the money is going to go toward 401k or her student loans. Her current federal payments are based on 2010 when I was the only one working until september and gross income was 44k. 2012 we are looking at 100k+.

- I am not making it an age thing, and I told her already:
-> credit card gone
-> my car loan gone
-> at least 15k in savings

- She knows my stance about her being a stay at home parent and it hasn't change in 4 years married: ain't gonna happen. Temporarily after the baby is born (up to a year) I am ok with, permanently? NO! Last week I reiterate it and she called me a selfish jerk.

- my wife student loans payment are currently at about $650/month and before we went income based route they were $1,000/month.

- We could survive on my income alone but that would require some serious cutbacks that my wife would just balk at; if she wants to maintain a certain lifestyle she will need to work for it. A person that shops at Pier 1, Crate & Barrel, Pottery Barn and throwing herself an hors d'oeuvres / small bite party this Saturday will not be happy with the lifestyle a 52k/year income would provide with a kid thrown in the mix. Total costs for the party is about $400 so far but her mom is covering it so I am not concerned (girl only party/get together).

So those are YOUR demands - what does SHE say? Are these things to which you agreed, or did you tell her this is how it's going to be?

- I never had an "age" for wanting to be a dad, it has always been when I felt financially stable/ready. At 25 we were in no shape to become parents.

I feel the same way, and thankfully DH agrees - but again, what was your wife's understanding? "When I felt financially stable" is a pretty amorphous goal. If your wife had her heart set on having kids by 25 but agreed to your demands, and the financial goalposts are continually moved, I can see how this would be frustrating...

Again, counseling.

[quotequeen]

May 10, 2012 10:57:24 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

- She knows my stance about her being a stay at home parent and it hasn't change in 4 years married: ain't gonna happen. Temporarily after the baby is born (up to a year) I am ok with, permanently? NO! Last week I reiterate it and she called me a selfish jerk.

Yikes.