How expensive can a divorce be

[Wisconsin Beth]

May 10, 2012 9:36:53 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

May 10, 2012 9:25:02 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

thanks, Mid. I think it's clear that selfishness is not relegated to one gender, especially since you could argue that Carl is being at least somewhat selfish for wanting to hold off on having kids.

I will freely admit that I am being selfish.

That is where the D word came up. She wants one now or at least know we would start trying within the next year, while I am not sure I want to start trying within the next 3.

Unfair for her to force me into it and unfair for me to keep her from her dream of being a mom before she turns 30.

Can we find a middle ground? I don't know.

Hugs Carl.

[973beachbum]

May 10, 2012 9:42:27 GMT -5 @beerwench said:

May 10, 2012 9:36:53 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

I will freely admit that I am being selfish.

That is where the D word came up. She wants one now or at least know we would start trying within the next year, while I am not sure I want to start trying within the next 3.

Unfair for her to force me into it and unfair for me to keep her from her dream of being a mom before she turns 30.

Can we find a middle ground? I don't know.

Talking with a neutral 3rd party might help you find a solution that you both can live with.

100% agree! I do hope you can work it out.

[Deleted]

May 10, 2012 9:36:53 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

May 10, 2012 9:25:02 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

thanks, Mid. I think it's clear that selfishness is not relegated to one gender, especially since you could argue that Carl is being at least somewhat selfish for wanting to hold off on having kids.

I will freely admit that I am being selfish.

That is where the D word came up. She wants one now or at least know we would start trying within the next year, while I am not sure I want to start trying within the next 3.

Unfair for her to force me into it and unfair for me to keep her from her dream of being a mom before she turns 30.

Can we find a middle ground? I don't know.

I knew you were more reasonable than the crazies on this board.

Two people pointing in different directions on the path of life is a reason for divorce. The other nonsense is not.

[Deleted]

May 10, 2012 9:41:52 GMT -5 Bob Ross said:

The fact that there is a hotly contested argument on whether or not a kid should be had is a good indicator in itself that a kid should NOT be had at this point.

Another human life is now at play here. A life that would feel the full impact of the fallout from this.

whoa. Did Bob Ross just make an intelligent and insightful post?




<<checks outside to see if the Zombiepocalypse has begun>>

[Opti]

May 10, 2012 9:29:38 GMT -5 midjd said:

I think it's a little depressing that despite dozens of threads in which dozens of women have told him NOT ALL WOMEN ARE LIKE YOUR WIFE, he doesn't seem to believe it...

He's got SF disease.
( I don't think its curable. )

[Deleted]

May 10, 2012 9:36:53 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

May 10, 2012 9:25:02 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

thanks, Mid. I think it's clear that selfishness is not relegated to one gender, especially since you could argue that Carl is being at least somewhat selfish for wanting to hold off on having kids.

I will freely admit that I am being selfish.

That is where the D word came up. She wants one now or at least know we would start trying within the next year, while I am not sure I want to start trying within the next 3.

Unfair for her to force me into it and unfair for me to keep her from her dream of being a mom before she turns 30.

Can we find a middle ground? I don't know.

why don't you make this about financial stability instead of time? Set a tangible financial goal - one that will make you feel better about having a kid. Then agree that when you reach it, you can TTC. Maybe that will help her to reign in her COL and spending.

[wvugurl26]

May 10, 2012 9:45:56 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

May 10, 2012 9:41:52 GMT -5 Bob Ross said:

The fact that there is a hotly contested argument on whether or not a kid should be had is a good indicator in itself that a kid should NOT be had at this point.

Another human life is now at play here. A life that would feel the full impact of the fallout from this.

whoa. Did Bob Ross just make an intelligent and insightful post?




<<checks outside to see if the Zombiepocalypse has begun>>

I know! And I agreed with hoops yesterday. Damn sky has to be falling!

Seriously caiwau that is a rough spot to be in. Maybe a counselor can help you talk it out and come to an agreement.

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"The issue is the lying, and lying "should" be a cut and dried issue...discussions about babies and timing, etc is not.":::...

With this statement, hoops totally called what you posted next:

...:::"birth control: we have been together for 9 years ... and my favorite: so you don't want to have kids with me, is that what you are saying. No, right now I don't want to have kids with anyone, period.":::...

See what she is doing? She is trying to steer you away from where she knows she acted poorly, and focusing on the points she knows you are waffly on. This is very smart because she will frustrate you on side-issues and try to get away with not being called out as wrong.

That bit at the end where she goes apocalyptic and says "oh so you don't WANT kids with me" is the typical baseless argument a woman uses when she knows she doesn't have a leg to stand on. She is trying to push you back in the other direction by going so far out of reason that you look bad in comparison.

When she does that, its because she KNOWS she is wrong and she knows you know she is wrong and she wants to start a side fight so that she can make YOU into the wrong one and she can get away with it.

...:::"It will be meaningless to her if she doesn't yet understand that she did something wrong.":::...

Exactly, and with women like our wives, things that they do to the end of getting their way are NEVER wrong.

If you want to spin it back on her, just keep telling her "no, this is what I want so this is what will happen." Don't compromise. Its the only language she speaks fluently.

[Opti]

May 10, 2012 9:48:44 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

May 10, 2012 9:36:53 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

I will freely admit that I am being selfish.

That is where the D word came up. She wants one now or at least know we would start trying within the next year, while I am not sure I want to start trying within the next 3.

Unfair for her to force me into it and unfair for me to keep her from her dream of being a mom before she turns 30.

Can we find a middle ground? I don't know.

why don't you make this about financial stability instead of time? Set a tangible financial goal - one that will make you feel better about having a kid. Then agree that when you reach it, you can TTC. Maybe that will help her to reign in her COL and spending.

That's a great idea MJ.

[kindthatjingles]

May 10, 2012 9:42:56 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

...:::"If you're going to every woman who deceives you, you're never going to be with anyone. And I don't think he has it in him to give up women completely.":::...

Karma for hoops. Heed this advice well cawiau.

...:::"not everyone feels the need to lie and toy with other people's emotions.":::...

I'd bet Mrs. C doesn't feel like she lied. Like I said, she could spin his choosing not to use condoms as the same thing. If he was 100% opposed to pregnancy, he would never skip the condom. But he tried to play roulette, so all she did was increase the odds (which were already pretty high). You can tell how she thinks in how she worded it. She didn't try to get pregnant, she just didn't try not to get pregnant.

ok so even until


She went to the DR to see why it hadn't worked!!!!!!

She wants to gloss over it and have him checked.

She only cares about getting pregnant, not what she did

[Wisconsin Beth]

May 10, 2012 9:41:52 GMT -5 Bob Ross said:

The fact that there is a hotly contested argument on whether or not a kid should be had is a good indicator in itself that a kid should NOT be had at this point.

Another human life is now at play here. A life that would feel the full impact of the fallout from this.

[kindthatjingles]

May 10, 2012 9:50:34 GMT -5 Opti said:

May 10, 2012 9:48:44 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

why don't you make this about financial stability instead of time? Set a tangible financial goal - one that will make you feel better about having a kid. Then agree that when you reach it, you can TTC. Maybe that will help her to reign in her COL and spending.

That's a great idea MJ.

Even talk to her Mom about the student loans. I'm sorry I think a SAHM with 100k in student loans is ridiculous.

[whoisjohngalt]

the end does NOT justify the means. Why is that so hard to understand?

It doesn't justify it for YOU. For HIM - it doesn't seem to matter, since he is only upset about lying. Why is THAT so hard to understand?

It seems he would have been perfectly happy with the "end" - the baby.

Lena

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"Except he will remember who said what. Trust me.":::...

Many of us have been consistent since during their engagement. I vividly recall the way she almost doubled the wedding cost. I vividly remember her insistence on spending 3 more years in school to then become a SAHM. She has always been consistent in her wants. This should come as no surprise.

Guys like cawiau and I have to look out for each other and keep one step ahead of our women's BS.

[Angel!]

May 10, 2012 8:13:55 GMT -5 swamp said:

I feel for Mrs. C. She is surrounded by family members who are putting horrible pressure on her to have a baby and treating her like someone to be pitied because she's made it to 27 without getting pregnant.

I also wonder if Carl has been moving the goalposts a bit, which would make it all that more frustrating.

You've been together 10 yrs now. So, in the early years what was the discussion about kids & timing? Did she always have the idea that you would have kids around 25 & now you are going back & forth about having kids in the next 3-5 yrs? I would feel a little misled & betrayed if I thought we had the understanding that we would have kids around 25 & then at 27 the guy is still trying to put it off for several more years. Not sure if this is the case, but something to consider.

Part of the reason my ex & I broke up was the kids issue. We always planned to have kids, but then at around 25 he told me he wanted to wait at least 10 more years. WTF, I am not waiting until at least 35 to start having kids. I understand some women do, but that wasn't how I wanted to do things & I felt like he switched the script on me after being together & talking about this stuff for years.

[Opti]

Exactly, and with women like our wives, things that they do to the end of getting their way are NEVER wrong.

If you want to spin it back on her, just keep telling her "no, this is what I want so this is what will happen." Don't compromise. Its the only language she speaks fluently.

So being a jerk to always get your way is right?!

[wvugurl26]

May 10, 2012 9:48:44 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

May 10, 2012 9:36:53 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

I will freely admit that I am being selfish.

That is where the D word came up. She wants one now or at least know we would start trying within the next year, while I am not sure I want to start trying within the next 3.

Unfair for her to force me into it and unfair for me to keep her from her dream of being a mom before she turns 30.

Can we find a middle ground? I don't know.

why don't you make this about financial stability instead of time? Set a tangible financial goal - one that will make you feel better about having a kid. Then agree that when you reach it, you can TTC. Maybe that will help her to reign in her COL and spending.

Thats a good idea Jen. I'd still worry about her wanting to be a SAHM if she does have a kid but that is another thing to bring up with a counselor. I don't know how the discussions have gone but caiwau has repeatedly said due to her student loans he does not want her to be a SAHM. She supposedly agreed with this but it appears to have been lip service to what he wanted to here.

Counseling would be a good starting point for them. Maybe they can come to a compromise on the kids issue. On the other hand if she wants kids now and she wants to be a SAHM so bad maybe she should be married to someone who will make that happen for her.

[kindthatjingles]

May 10, 2012 9:52:28 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

...:::"Except he will remember who said what. Trust me.":::...

Many of us have been consistent since during their engagement. I vividly recall the way she almost doubled the wedding cost. I vividly remember her insistence on spending 3 more years in school to then become a SAHM. She has always been consistent in her wants. This should come as no surprise.

Guys like cawiau and I have to look out for each other and keep one step ahead of our women's BS.

I don't feel sorry for eother one of you then,You knew what you had and you married them anyway,

[Angel!]

May 10, 2012 9:19:30 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

It comes down to this: You and I both married selfish women. They can be "good" for periods of time, but they are still women. They don't want to be when they don't stand to get 100% their way. This serves as a stark reminder that we cannot get complacent and think that they are "on board". All those pretty words and vows are lovely for show, but we need to remember that there will be times where they will not hesitate to do what they feel they need to do to achieve their own objectives. They want what they want, and when it gets the better of them, they default back to their true natures.

I know this thread isn't about you, but this comment makes me very sad. It just sounds like you don't love your wife for her true self & goes back to the conversation about it being your job to make your spouse a better person. If you don't love them for who they really are, then do you really love them at all?

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

May 10, 2012 9:47:24 GMT -5 Opti said:

May 10, 2012 9:29:38 GMT -5 midjd said:

I think it's a little depressing that despite dozens of threads in which dozens of women have told him NOT ALL WOMEN ARE LIKE YOUR WIFE, he doesn't seem to believe it...

He's got SF disease.
( I don't think its curable. )

I could easily straighten C out.

[quotequeen]

May 10, 2012 9:52:28 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

Guys like cawiau and I have to look out for each other and keep one step ahead of our women's BS.

Or something.

[Bob Ross]

May 10, 2012 9:49:09 GMT -5 wvugurl26 said:

May 10, 2012 9:45:56 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

whoa. Did Bob Ross just make an intelligent and insightful post?




<<checks outside to see if the Zombiepocalypse has begun>>

I know! And I agreed with hoops yesterday. Damn sky has to be falling!

Seriously caiwau that is a rough spot to be in. Maybe a counselor can help you talk it out and come to an agreement.

I'll have you both know that IRL I am both brilliant and insightful.

However, I mostly choose not to be on here because it's way more fun to make fart jokes.

[Deleted]

May 10, 2012 9:54:52 GMT -5 kindthatjingles said:

May 10, 2012 9:52:28 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

...:::"Except he will remember who said what. Trust me.":::...

Many of us have been consistent since during their engagement. I vividly recall the way she almost doubled the wedding cost. I vividly remember her insistence on spending 3 more years in school to then become a SAHM. She has always been consistent in her wants. This should come as no surprise.

Guys like cawiau and I have to look out for each other and keep one step ahead of our women's BS.

I don't feel sorry for eother one of you then,You knew what you had and you married them anyway,

[973beachbum]

May 10, 2012 9:52:44 GMT -5 Angel! said:

May 10, 2012 8:13:55 GMT -5 swamp said:

I feel for Mrs. C. She is surrounded by family members who are putting horrible pressure on her to have a baby and treating her like someone to be pitied because she's made it to 27 without getting pregnant.

I also wonder if Carl has been moving the goalposts a bit, which would make it all that more frustrating.

You've been together 10 yrs now. So, in the early years what was the discussion about kids & timing? Did she always have the idea that you would have kids around 25 & now you are going back & forth about having kids in the next 3-5 yrs? I would feel a little misled & betrayed if I thought we had the understanding that we would have kids around 25 & then at 27 the guy is still trying to put it off for several more years. Not sure if this is the case, but something to consider.

Part of the reason my ex & I broke up was the kids issue. We always planned to have kids, but then at around 25 he told me he wanted to wait at least 10 more years. WTF, I am not waiting until at least 35 to start having kids. I understand some women do, but that wasn't how I wanted to do things & I felt like he switched the script on me after being together & talking about this stuff for years.

You said that so eloquantly!

[bean29]

May 10, 2012 9:36:53 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

May 10, 2012 9:25:02 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

thanks, Mid. I think it's clear that selfishness is not relegated to one gender, especially since you could argue that Carl is being at least somewhat selfish for wanting to hold off on having kids.

I will freely admit that I am being selfish.

That is where the D word came up. She wants one now or at least know we would start trying within the next year, while I am not sure I want to start trying within the next 3.

Unfair for her to force me into it and unfair for me to keep her from her dream of being a mom before she turns 30.

Can we find a middle ground? I don't know.

Cawiau: I am very torn about this. I definitively wanted no more than 2 kids. At one point I wavered an thought about a 3rd. I talked myself out of it. But I was 29 and 33 when I had my kids and part of my reason for not wanting to attempt to have a 3rd was the 2nd was much harder on me physically than the 1st. Many women do well having children in their late 30's and early 40's, but when you get older your risk for having Downs syndrome and other birth defects increases substantially.

I do think you should both agree on the timing. I also believe that anyone who takes on $100,000 in student loans should plan to work for the rest of their lives or at least until they are paid off.

The distance is hard. I have a hard time with the concept of being a SAHM because you give up your independence and your financial self sufficiency. But, if my DH took a promotion that required me to relocate and get a different job and I could not find suitable employment I get wanting to be a SAHM. It may not be totally rational, but I will be the first to admit ones thinking is not always rational when hormones are involved.

I think counseling is a good idea. I hope you both go and can work out a plan you both agree to.

[movingforward]

May 10, 2012 9:55:59 GMT -5 quotequeen said:

May 10, 2012 9:52:28 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

Guys like cawiau and I have to look out for each other and keep one step ahead of our women's BS.

Or something.

Something like choose different women...

[whoisjohngalt]

Huh??? You realize I was joking around with you, right??? Seriously, does NOONE on YM have a sense of humor??

<runs back to EE>>

I hope you don't. For purely selfish reasons, of course. Your posts, are both clever and funny and since I don't go on EE, I would miss out

Lena

[resolution]

May 10, 2012 9:48:44 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

May 10, 2012 9:36:53 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

I will freely admit that I am being selfish.

That is where the D word came up. She wants one now or at least know we would start trying within the next year, while I am not sure I want to start trying within the next 3.

Unfair for her to force me into it and unfair for me to keep her from her dream of being a mom before she turns 30.

Can we find a middle ground? I don't know.

why don't you make this about financial stability instead of time? Set a tangible financial goal - one that will make you feel better about having a kid. Then agree that when you reach it, you can TTC. Maybe that will help her to reign in her COL and spending.

I think he has raised the bar on financial stability too many times at this point for that to work. I remember when he was trying to compromise to get her to agree to 15% going into retirement. She finally agreed, and then he got more money from somewhere else and was asking for advice on whether he should hide it from her to invest more. Then he wanted to raise the bar again to 25% of income to retirement, and she agreed again. Then he wanted to move into a cheaper apartment, and she agreed again. Then he wanted to split up and move away from her and live separately for more money and she agreed again. It seems like the idea of financial stability keeps going up and up.

I think she has finally hit her limit on agreeing to his priorities and he needs to seriously consider if he is willing to compromise and give her some of her priorities. I agree this issue of when to have kids is something that could be a deal breaker for them, and I hope that they get some counseling to help them decide if they can make a real compromise. I don't agree with her deception, but I think the more important issue is if their goals are even headed in the same direction at this point.

[Opti]

May 10, 2012 9:55:05 GMT -5 Angel! said:

May 10, 2012 9:19:30 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

It comes down to this: You and I both married selfish women. They can be "good" for periods of time, but they are still women. They don't want to be when they don't stand to get 100% their way. This serves as a stark reminder that we cannot get complacent and think that they are "on board". All those pretty words and vows are lovely for show, but we need to remember that there will be times where they will not hesitate to do what they feel they need to do to achieve their own objectives. They want what they want, and when it gets the better of them, they default back to their true natures.

I know this thread isn't about you, but this comment makes me very sad. It just sounds like you don't love your wife for her true self & goes back to the conversation about it being your job to make your spouse a better person. If you don't love them for who they really are, then do you really love them at all?

Its also an example of why stereotypes are not always true. You often hear men marry women hoping they won't change and women marry men hoping they will but WWBG seems to have been of the mindset of changing his now DW for the better from almost any post I've read of his.

Its easy to love someone if they become more like you want them to be. The real challenge and achievement is loving someone as they are.

[Deleted]

May 10, 2012 10:03:37 GMT -5 resolution said:

May 10, 2012 9:48:44 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

why don't you make this about financial stability instead of time? Set a tangible financial goal - one that will make you feel better about having a kid. Then agree that when you reach it, you can TTC. Maybe that will help her to reign in her COL and spending.

I think he has raised the bar on financial stability too many times at this point for that to work. I remember when he was trying to compromise to get her to agree to 15% going into retirement. She finally agreed, and then he got more money from somewhere else and was asking for advice on whether he should hide it from her to invest more. Then he wanted to raise the bar again to 25% of income to retirement, and she agreed again. Then he wanted to move into a cheaper apartment, and she agreed again. Then he wanted to split up and move away from her and live separately for more money and she agreed again. It seems like the idea of financial stability keeps going up and up.

I think she has finally hit her limit on agreeing to his priorities and he needs to seriously consider if he is willing to compromise and give her some of her priorities. I agree this issue of when to have kids is something that could be a deal breaker for them, and I hope that they get some counseling to help them decide if they can make a real compromise. I don't agree with her deception, but I think the more important issue is if their goals are even headed in the same direction at this point.

100% spot on.