How expensive can a divorce be

[constanz22]

May 9, 2012 13:19:31 GMT -5 swamp said:

May 9, 2012 13:17:28 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Sorry about that BTW.. I was just passing through..

LOL!
Now focus dude, our virtual brother is hurting here.

I think we need a Chicks of YM road trip to smack some sense into Mrs. C.

Damn, I think I'm the closest...and I'm done work at noon tomorrow til Monday...load up ladies!

[whoisjohngalt]

I am going to say the same thing I said on page 2 or 3 - how can you be mad at someone who didn't think he was doing anything wrong? We have 16 pages of angry (and a few funny) posts about how horrible this woman is - well, she might be or she might not be.

In her mind -she didn't do anything so horrible, she loves her husband and didn't really hurt him. There are no absolutes in this world, most of the things are matter of perspective and opinion. I know it's almost impossible to put yourself in the position of the person that hurt you, but to "me" intent means a lot - and if there is no intent in this situation - is she really THAT horrible?

Lena

[Deleted]

"the road to Hell is paved with good intentions."

[Sum Dum Gai]

I know it's almost impossible to put yourself in the position of the person that hurt you, but to "me" intent means a lot - and if there is no intent in this situation - is she really THAT horrible?

If she felt the need to keep it from him and lie about it, she obviously realized it was at least a little wrong. She might not have thought it was as big a deal as he does, but she knew she was doing something wrong while she did it.

[Deleted]

I am going to say the same thing I said on page 2 or 3 - how can you be mad at someone who didn't think he was doing anything wrong? We have 16 pages of angry (and a few funny) posts about how horrible this woman is - well, she might be or she might not be.

In her mind -she didn't do anything so horrible, she loves her husband and didn't really hurt him. There are no absolutes in this world, most of the things are matter of perspective and opinion. I know it's almost impossible to put yourself in the position of the person that hurt you, but to "me" intent means a lot - and if there is no intent in this situation - is she really THAT horrible?

I agree with Lena. I also think that we have way too many opinions about people we don't really know. Although I am sure that Carl appreciates the concern people are demonstrating, this can quickly turn ugly when he decides to forgive his wife and go on as if nothing happened. Except he will remember who said what. Trust me.

This is honestly his business. Once we got through expressing our support, we really should have shut up.

[Deleted]

Carl, I wish I could say or do something that would make it all better, but none of us can do that. In the end only you can decide what's the best thing for you to do. In the meantime hugs for you

[InsertCoolName]

Wow. I wonder how many of you would be ok with her lying about having her retirement stopped. Or She said she was sending extra money to the student loans. Or didn't bother to tell him she had a credit card.

None of those things would really be intent on hurting him.

[quotequeen]

May 9, 2012 19:15:03 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

I am going to say the same thing I said on page 2 or 3 - how can you be mad at someone who didn't think he was doing anything wrong? We have 16 pages of angry (and a few funny) posts about how horrible this woman is - well, she might be or she might not be.

In her mind -she didn't do anything so horrible, she loves her husband and didn't really hurt him. There are no absolutes in this world, most of the things are matter of perspective and opinion. I know it's almost impossible to put yourself in the position of the person that hurt you, but to "me" intent means a lot - and if there is no intent in this situation - is she really THAT horrible?

Lena

Wow, I disagree with this 100%. People don't necessarily set out to hurt somebody but if they are careless and selfish and wind up hurting you because of that, you have every right to be mad at them.

[Firebird]

In her mind -she didn't do anything so horrible, she loves her husband and didn't really hurt him. There are no absolutes in this world, most of the things are matter of perspective and opinion. I know it's almost impossible to put yourself in the position of the person that hurt you, but to "me" intent means a lot - and if there is no intent in this situation - is she really THAT horrible?

Intent, actually, does not mean that much to me. If you punch me in the face, I don't really care if you did it because you hated me or because you think you loved me or because you felt justified or any other reason. I care that you punched me in the face.

Sometimes you have to look at the totality of your actions, ESPECIALLY in a marriage. Let's say that DH was hurt by something that seemed frivolous to me, but it really hurt his feelings for some reason. The fact that I didn't *intend* to hurt his feelings doesn't change the fact that they were hurt and I need to figure out the disconnect in my behavior that would cause him to feel that way.

She did a bad thing. I don't really care if she thought it was bad or not; it was, and she can tell that because Carl is deeply, deeply hurt over it. If she loves him, she should give a shit about that even if she doesn't fully understand what she did wrong.

[Firebird]

If she felt the need to keep it from him and lie about it, she obviously realized it was at least a little wrong. She might not have thought it was as big a deal as he does, but she knew she was doing something wrong while she did it.

And that too. People don't actively lie about things that they're proud of doing or that they don't mind people knowing.

[whoisjohngalt]

QQ
I am not saying that Carl shouldn't be hurt, I am just saying that intent or lack thereof should matter.

Let's say someone steps accidentally on your foot and your foot hurts. And then someone else stabs your foot on pupose. Your foot hurts in both of those instances, but your anger would probably be different.

I think the fact that she didn't think she was doing anything wrong is a bigger problem. For one, it shows how not in-tune they are with each other and two - there are major communication issues.

But she didn't set out to hurt him and I think that should matter. Someone said a few pages back that they would prefer if their SO just slept with someone. Well, if you cheat, there is pretty much a 99% chance that you will be hurting your SO. Carl's wife didn't think she was hurting him, at least not according to his posts

And Carl even said that if she got pregnant, he wouldn't be THAT upset. So, may be the thought she knew him.

Lena

[Firebird]

The other reason I don't put much stock in intention is because very few people we'd choose to associate with in this life wake up in the morning intending to hurt us. Most of the time, we don't mean to hurt people we love. But we do, and owning that is a very big part of owning the consequences of our actions.

[midjd]

I agree with Lena. I also think that we have way too many opinions about people we don't really know. Although I am sure that Carl appreciates the concern people are demonstrating, this can quickly turn ugly when he decides to forgive his wife and go on as if nothing happened. Except he will remember who said what. Trust me.

ETA - leave it to me to have to edit a word-free post

Carl, you don't have to answer, but have you discussed counseling?

[hoops902]

In this case the intent was "I want to get my way and this is the easiest way to do it". You rarely "intend" to hurt people when that is your attitude, you just simply don't care much if you do. People's intent is VERY rarely to actually hurt someone else. People's intent is far more often to get what they want, and just letting everything else fall by the wayside.

And I'm not totally sure which one I think is worse. Intending to hurt someone is bad, but it also shows you have some understanding that other people have feelings and thoughts and wants. Being completely selfish and not caring what happens to others as you pursue what you want might not have that terrible intent, but I'm not fully convinced it's better.

[whoisjohngalt]

Intent, actually, does not mean that much to me. If you punch me in the face, I don't really care if you did it because you hated me or because you think you loved me or because you felt justified or any other reason. I care that you punched me in the face.

That's where you and I differ. If you punched me bc you were trying to kill a dangerous spider on my face would be very different to me if you punched me bc you didn't like my face and felt you had the right to punch me.

Again, I am not saying that punch wouldn't hurt. But I wouldn't be angry with your in a first scenario and you probably would be in the hospital after the second one.

To ME intent matters,

Lena

[quotequeen]

May 9, 2012 20:02:09 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

QQ
I am not saying that Carl shouldn't be hurt, I am just saying that intent or lack thereof should matter.

Let's say someone steps accidentally on your foot and your foot hurts. And then someone else stabs your foot on pupose. Your foot hurts in both of those instances, but your anger would probably be different.

Yes, but to me there is a big difference between an accident and a deliberate action that happens not to be intended to specifically hurt me. If you shoot a gun into a crowd and hit me I don't really care that you weren't trying to hit me. You were extremely reckless and should have thought about the consequences of your actions before taking them.

[Firebird]

Lena- once I've told you that you're standing on my foot and it hurts, you need to listen to me and respect that- not keep insisting that you're really standing on my shoe, or that you have every right to stand on my foot, or that you thought I wanted you to stand on my foot. None of that matters. What matters is that you need to get off my freaking foot, because YOU ARE HURTING ME.

Carl's wife is still insisting she wasn't really stepping on his foot. That is bad.

[Waffle]

May 9, 2012 19:23:00 GMT -5 @southernsusana said:

I also think that we have way too many opinions about people we don't really know. Although I am sure that Carl appreciates the concern people are demonstrating, this can quickly turn ugly when he decides to forgive his wife and go on as if nothing happened. Except he will remember who said what. Trust me.

This is honestly his business. Once we got through expressing our support, we really should have shut up.

Carl - I do hope you and your wife get some professional counseling. Good luck to you.

[hoops902]

May 9, 2012 20:08:21 GMT -5 Firebird said:

The other reason I don't put much stock in intention is because very few people we'd choose to associate with in this life wake up in the morning intending to hurt us. Most of the time, we don't mean to hurt people we love. But we do, and owning that is a very big part of owning the consequences of our actions.

I do think there's a significant difference though between unintentionally hurting someone because you just didn't care how they felt, and unintentionally hurting someone when you were trying to help them.

I don't care if my wife wakes me up in the middle of the night because she thinks she heard a burglar, even if she's wrong. I do care if she wakes me up in the middle of the night because she was bored and turned on the tv at full volume. In both I was woken up for no reason, but the fact that she thought she was doing the right thing matters to me.

[Deleted]

May 9, 2012 19:15:03 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

I am going to say the same thing I said on page 2 or 3 - how can you be mad at someone who didn't think he was doing anything wrong? We have 16 pages of angry (and a few funny) posts about how horrible this woman is - well, she might be or she might not be.

In her mind -she didn't do anything so horrible, she loves her husband and didn't really hurt him. There are no absolutes in this world, most of the things are matter of perspective and opinion. I know it's almost impossible to put yourself in the position of the person that hurt you, but to "me" intent means a lot - and if there is no intent in this situation - is she really THAT horrible?

Lena

I think because in the end, we are Team Cawiau. We love Mrs. Cawiau when he loves Mrs. Cawiau. We're pissed at Mrs. Cawiau when he is pissed at Mrs. Cawiau.

We've only ever claimed to be objective about finances.

[hoops902]

May 9, 2012 19:23:00 GMT -5 @southernsusana said:

I am going to say the same thing I said on page 2 or 3 - how can you be mad at someone who didn't think he was doing anything wrong? We have 16 pages of angry (and a few funny) posts about how horrible this woman is - well, she might be or she might not be.

In her mind -she didn't do anything so horrible, she loves her husband and didn't really hurt him. There are no absolutes in this world, most of the things are matter of perspective and opinion. I know it's almost impossible to put yourself in the position of the person that hurt you, but to "me" intent means a lot - and if there is no intent in this situation - is she really THAT horrible?

I agree with Lena. I also think that we have way too many opinions about people we don't really know. Although I am sure that Carl appreciates the concern people are demonstrating, this can quickly turn ugly when he decides to forgive his wife and go on as if nothing happened. Except he will remember who said what. Trust me.

This is honestly his business. Once we got through expressing our support, we really should have shut up.

Or alternatively, we can recognize that Carl isn't dumb, he knows what the discussion was going to lead to. If he really wanted to know how expensive a divorce was he could have asked without telling us anything.

And as far as "he'll remember who said what"...it's not as if this is the first time anyone has bashed his wife. If this were in person, I would agree...I think Carl knows what's going to happen when he posts this kind of thing though.

[whoisjohngalt]

The other reason I don't put much stock in intention is because very few people we'd choose to associate with in this life wake up in the morning intending to hurt us. Most of the time, we don't mean to hurt people we love. But we do, and owning that is a very big part of owning the consequences of our actions.

It's not just the intent part, it's also knowing your partner. If she really didn't think it would have been a big deal if she got pregnant, than yeah, she didn't do it in the way most would prefer, but turns out she was right. He wouldn't have been angry if she got pregnant.

And to Dark's comment - a "little" wrong shouldn't send you to a divorce lawyer.

I guess that's the point I am trying to make - yep, she lied, but it seems that she didn't think he would mind at the end and she might have been right, bc if instead of finding out her actions, he found out she was pregnant - doesn't sound like he would have been too upset


Lena

[hoops902]

::It's not just the intent part, it's also knowing your partner. If she really didn't think it would have been a big deal if she got pregnant, than yeah, she didn't do it in the way most would prefer, but turns out she was right. He wouldn't have been angry if she got pregnant. ::

This is why he needs to make it clear he's upset about the lying, moreso than the potential result of that lying. I wouldn't be that mad if we had a new car, we kind of need one. I'd still be pissed if my wife just showed up with one though, even if it was the one I wanted. There's knowing what I want, and there's respecting our relationship enough that you aren't hiding things from me that I should know about.

[Firebird]

What hoops said (typing on phone = FB cutting corners).

Intent isn't meaningless but it certainly doesn't get you a free pass. At least not from me.

[Cookies Galore]

May 9, 2012 17:07:22 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

I mean seriously... Dark, you are a 30 year old man. Grown ass men don't eat gummy bears UNLESS they have liquor in them. People are on to you.

Nuh uh. I work with IT nerds. Every other cubicle in this joint has junk food, candy, and soda on it.

My name is Meghan, I'm 30, and I love gummi worms and bears.

[Peace Of Mind]

May 9, 2012 20:38:35 GMT -5 Cookies Galore said:

May 9, 2012 17:07:22 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

I mean seriously... Dark, you are a 30 year old man. Grown ass men don't eat gummy bears UNLESS they have liquor in them. People are on to you.

Nuh uh. I work with IT nerds. Every other cubicle in this joint has junk food, candy, and soda on it.

My name is Meghan, I'm 30, and I love gummi worms and bears.

But you are not a grown ass man so you're good!

[simser]

I can see both sides very very well here. I can see that you could and should be extremely hurt. I also know that when you're a female and you want a baby you WANT. A. BABY. And the entire line of women in that situation is that guys will come around when you're pregnant. It's all you hear. Especially if there are mixed messages (defined as anything less than "I NEVER WANT A CHILD AND I WANT A VASECTOMY")

Counseling. It may or may not help. I agree with whoever said that we are on your side whatever you do. If you like her, we'll like her, if not we'll threaten to kill her Divorce is hard and it's a hard decision to make. Good luck!

[wvugurl26]

Oh hell are we getting a group rate at the mental hospital since we are agreeing with hoops?

Just because he would have made it work and loved the kid if she did get knocked up doesn't make the fact that she lied ok.

[taz157]

May 9, 2012 20:22:28 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

::It's not just the intent part, it's also knowing your partner. If she really didn't think it would have been a big deal if she got pregnant, than yeah, she didn't do it in the way most would prefer, but turns out she was right. He wouldn't have been angry if she got pregnant. ::

This is why he needs to make it clear he's upset about the lying, moreso than the potential result of that lying. I wouldn't be that mad if we had a new car, we kind of need one. I'd still be pissed if my wife just showed up with one though, even if it was the one I wanted. There's knowing what I want, and there's respecting our relationship enough that you aren't hiding things from me that I should know about.

[taz157]

May 9, 2012 19:30:11 GMT -5 @missrigby said:

Carl, I wish I could say or do something that would make it all better, but none of us can do that. In the end only you can decide what's the best thing for you to do. In the meantime hugs for you