How expensive can a divorce be

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

the fact she was like crap I am getting checked out this should have worked by now..

Yeah that really bothers me too. Dh and I aren't always the best communicators but the bedroom is always one place I have encouraged complete openess without judgement.

I just can't wrap my brain around doing all this behind the back of the man I am trying to have a kid with. I can imagine his reaction would be pretty similar to Carl's.

It is a small part of the overall issue but I would be EXTREMELY upset that family members were roped into and even encouraged this deception while I was left in the dark.

You don't do that to your spouse. Honestly I think that is the part I wouldn't ever be able to get past.

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"Also I feel horrible for the Men I see in the Tampax aisle. Ladies you know when it is coming.. Be prepared. Do not send your man to look hopeless in the aisle.":::...

More humor from me. DW once sent me out to get feminine products during the friggin superbowl! Now I don't care about sports, but I bet that poor clerk was thinking "damn, she must be BAD for him to be out here now".

[Firebird]

May 9, 2012 13:58:43 GMT -5 sheilaincali said:

May 9, 2012 13:26:23 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

I'm pretty sure both would bother my husband....both are violations of trust.

Sure, but one is a heat of the moment mistake. The other is cold and calculating. Then to defend it after wards... it's amazingly selfish. Like unbelievably selfish and cold. That's the part that would get me. People make mistakes. Shit happens. I get that. But something that calculating... I would wonder how much they really cared about me, and whether I could really trust them. Marriage doesn't work without trust.

DH cheated on me (had an affair) it took a long time in counseling (both individually and together) to get back on track. It was over 5 years ago and there are still some lingering trust issues. But to tell you the truth- the emotional connection and lying hurt way more than the thought of them engaging in the physical act of cheating.

Dark is right- the oops my penis fell into the chick while I was drunk is easier to handle than months of calculated lying.

Karma for you. Your DH is a lucky dude and I'm so glad he stepped up to his second chance.

[kindthatjingles]

May 9, 2012 15:55:51 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

the fact she was like crap I am getting checked out this should have worked by now..

Yeah that really bothers me too. Dh and I aren't always the best communicators but the bedroom is always one place I have encouraged complete openess without judgement.

I just can't wrap my brain around doing all this behind the back of the man I am trying to have a kid with. I can imagine his reaction would be pretty similar to Carl's.

It is a small part of the overall issue but I would be EXTREMELY upset that family members were roped into and even encouraged this deception while I was left in the dark.

You don't do that to your spouse. Honestly I think that is the part I wouldn't ever be able to get past.

Karma to you when I can... If her family was helping/encouraging this that speaks volumes. Her family seems to turn the other way when they see a trainwreck.

Drama, It must be our Midwestern values

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Granted he seems to change his mind a fair amount, but it's not like they aren't communicating on the subject.

It's still a serious breakdown in communication though for a spouse to go behind his back like that.

Even if it wasn't him sending mixed messages about whether or not she had the green light, clearly something isn't being communicated properly if she felt the need to take these drastic steps behind Carl's back.

If they were to stay together, whatever compelled her to do this and lie about it has to be fixed. You should not feel the need to lie to your spouse about something this important.

[Works4me]

Medical Social Worker here - Condoms do work when used properly - Always used every time, always used prior to any form of penetration and always removed immediately after. Key is to ALWAYS use them EVERY time.

Old joke - what do you call people who use the rhythm method of BC?
Parents.

[Deleted]

May 9, 2012 15:55:10 GMT -5 quotequeen said:

May 9, 2012 15:49:04 GMT -5 midjd said:

I think it comes down to communication. Mrs. C - for whatever reason - felt she couldn't communicate her desire for a child to Cawaiu (or did and he didn't listen) - so she immaturely took matters into her own hands. Bad decision.

But the impression I've gotten from some of Cawaiu's posts is that he tells her how it's going to be, and she says "OK." Given what he's said about her shyness, fear of confrontation, etc., this doesn't really surprise me.

Again, I'm not at all condoning what she did. But I think there are bigger issues here. If she's afraid/reluctant/whatever to tell Cawaiu how she really feels, or what she really wants - or she DOES tell him and he says, "No, we're doing it this way" - that's a much bigger issue than "did she lie about her menstrual cycle." And I think this kind of communication issue is completely fixable, though the trust may be broken beyond repair.

I don't know, they've had at least 10 conversations about it that he's shared with us. Granted he seems to change his mind a fair amount, but it's not like they aren't communicating on the subject.

They are talking - but that's not necessarily the same as communicating. If they were communicating and made a decision together, they would have both been committed to the decision.

[Firebird]

I don't know, they've had at least 10 conversations about it that he's shared with us. Granted he seems to change his mind a fair amount, but it's not like they aren't communicating on the subject.

And seriously - maybe this is just me but I really need/ed DH and I to be 1 MILLION PERCENT ON BOARD with the idea of having kids right now before throwing out the birth control. If either of us were the slightest bit waffly (beyond the "I really want this more than anything but holy shit can I really be a parent" level of waffly that you can't get away from no matter what), then it's obviously not time yet.

Screwing around with birth control behind your spouse's back shows a total disregard for their feelings of ambivalence.

[Deleted]

May 9, 2012 15:56:39 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

...:::"Also I feel horrible for the Men I see in the Tampax aisle. Ladies you know when it is coming.. Be prepared. Do not send your man to look hopeless in the aisle.":::...

More humor from me. DW once sent me out to get feminine products during the friggin superbowl! Now I don't care about sports, but I bet that poor clerk was thinking "damn, she must be BAD for him to be out here now".

Okay, that's some bad timing. But I do believe that real men can buy tampons.

[Firebird]

They are talking - but that's not necessarily the same as communicating. If they were communicating and made a decision together, they would have both been committed to the decision.

Would they really?

I would differentiate "committed to iffy birth control, not upset about the prospect of kids, but not actively TRYING for them" from "committed to going for it - no birth control, fertility treatments out the wazoo, KIDS NOW."

There are different levels of commitment. So, Carl was waffling and maybe would have been fine with a GENUINE accident. He still wasn't ready to actively try yet and his wife had no right to actively try without his knowledge.

[Sum Dum Gai]

Condoms do work when used properly

As long as they don't break. I can't be the only guy that's had one rip during use.

[midjd]

I don't know, they've had at least 10 conversations about it that he's shared with us. Granted he seems to change his mind a fair amount, but it's not like they aren't communicating on the subject.

True, but just because a conversation is taking place doesn't mean there's any real communication going on. From past posts it seems fairly common for them to decide on something and then one or both goes ahead and does whatever-they-agreed-not-to-do anyway. Look at how many times they've changed their mind on kids, buying a house, upping/decreasing retirement contributions, separate vs. mingled finances... I'm unclear whether these were mutual changes or just Mrs. C going along to get along. Or maybe she figures, "I'll just agree to this and he'll change his mind later anyway" - which is understandable, considering the amount of backtracking that goes on.

Not trying to blast either of them, I just don't think we should be piling on Mrs. C. after only hearing one side of it. (And I know Cawaiu posted exactly what she said, but that's still through his filter).

Obviously, regardless of what either of them thought/felt/decided, there are some major communication issues that should be addressed - preferably in counseling.

[kindthatjingles]

May 9, 2012 16:02:25 GMT -5 @craftysarah said:

May 9, 2012 15:56:39 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

...:::"Also I feel horrible for the Men I see in the Tampax aisle. Ladies you know when it is coming.. Be prepared. Do not send your man to look hopeless in the aisle.":::...

More humor from me. DW once sent me out to get feminine products during the friggin superbowl! Now I don't care about sports, but I bet that poor clerk was thinking "damn, she must be BAD for him to be out here now".

Okay, that's some bad timing. But I do believe that real men can buy tampons.

There are a few things that I think a REAL man should be able to do. Buying tampons isn't one of them.

[Deleted]

May 9, 2012 16:02:25 GMT -5 @craftysarah said:

May 9, 2012 15:56:39 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

...:::"Also I feel horrible for the Men I see in the Tampax aisle. Ladies you know when it is coming.. Be prepared. Do not send your man to look hopeless in the aisle.":::...

More humor from me. DW once sent me out to get feminine products during the friggin superbowl! Now I don't care about sports, but I bet that poor clerk was thinking "damn, she must be BAD for him to be out here now".

Okay, that's some bad timing. But I do believe that real men can buy tampons.

real men buy tampons, soak them in gin and then shove them up their asses for a nice quick buzz.

[imawino]

May 9, 2012 15:49:57 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

but I can see how in her head she could have totally believed that he wouldn't care because they weren't being serious about birth control anyway

If you think he is okay with having a baby why not be honest with your intentions?

Why talk about it behind his back?

That's what I don't get. I totally understand what you are saying about mixed signals but I can't wrap my brain around proceeding ahead with increasing my odds without consulting my husband, let alone hiding it from him.

DH got mixed signals from me about kids. He asked me point blank if I wanted kids or not.

I never would have forgiven him if he had tampered with my birth control and then claimed "well I thought it would be okay with you".

You don't go behind your spouses back and decide "Well they are all right with it so now I am going to deliberately start trying".

That to me means you got some serious communication problems if you feel that is acceptable rather than confronting your spouse on his mixed signals.

I absolutely agree and this is not how I would have chosen to have handled things. I believe that this is a serious problem, and is evidence of lack of communication. I think that Mrs. C is not good at expressing her true wants and it sounds like she just agrees because it's easier. It doesn't really matter what I think or how I would handle it though, or whether this would be a huge deal-breaker problem for me, a non-issue or anywhere in between.

The truth is this is where they are right now and debating whether I think it's okay is pointless. Carl is mad and hurt as he has every right to be. Maybe I just felt compelled to try to see her side since she's not here to present it. I tend to be a fan of the underdog IRL. So all I've been saying is that I can understand how she would assume he would be okay with a baby since they weren't diligent about precautions......and then made the leap in her head that since his actions (if not his words) indicate that he's okay with having a baby, why not make it happen.

[kindthatjingles]

May 9, 2012 16:03:49 GMT -5 midjd said:

I don't know, they've had at least 10 conversations about it that he's shared with us. Granted he seems to change his mind a fair amount, but it's not like they aren't communicating on the subject.

True, but just because a conversation is taking place doesn't mean there's any real communication going on. From past posts it seems fairly common for them to decide on something and then one or both goes ahead and does whatever-they-agreed-not-to-do anyway. Look at how many times they've changed their mind on kids, buying a house, upping/decreasing retirement contributions, separate vs. mingled finances... I'm unclear whether these were mutual changes or just Mrs. C going along to get along. Or maybe she figures, "I'll just agree to this and he'll change his mind later anyway" - which is understandable, considering the amount of backtracking that goes on.

Not trying to blast either of them, I just don't think we should be piling on Mrs. C. after only hearing one side of it. (And I know Cawaiu posted exactly what she said, but that's still through his filter).

One person can't make all the decisions in a marriage. He does seem to waffle a lot on things. I blame his age and them still trying to find their way

[swamp]

May 9, 2012 15:56:39 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

...:::"Also I feel horrible for the Men I see in the Tampax aisle. Ladies you know when it is coming.. Be prepared. Do not send your man to look hopeless in the aisle.":::...

More humor from me. DW once sent me out to get feminine products during the friggin superbowl! Now I don't care about sports, but I bet that poor clerk was thinking "damn, she must be BAD for him to be out here now".

You left your balls at home, didnt you?

[gawgagranny]

I know I am late to the road trip party mentioned several pages ago (earlier this afternoon), but I would be happy to join the party & bring my softball bat!

[kindthatjingles]

May 9, 2012 16:05:22 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

May 9, 2012 16:02:25 GMT -5 @craftysarah said:

Okay, that's some bad timing. But I do believe that real men can buy tampons.

real men buy tampons, soak them in gin and then shove them up their asses for a nice quick buzz.

Archie,

I am concerned that you are even aware that this is possible.

[Miss Tequila]

"real men buy tampons, soak them in gin and then shove them up their asses for a nice quick buzz. "

Only men are supposed to do that??? <takes tampon out of ass>>

[Miss Tequila]

"Archie,

I am concerned that you are even aware that this is possible. "

LOL...it was a thread on EE a few months ago...started after someone read an article somewhere....

[kindthatjingles]

May 9, 2012 16:08:02 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

"real men buy tampons, soak them in gin and then shove them up their asses for a nice quick buzz. "

Only men are supposed to do that??? <takes tampon out of ass>>

[kindthatjingles]

May 9, 2012 16:08:38 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

"Archie,

I am concerned that you are even aware that this is possible. "

LOL...it was a thread on EE a few months ago...started after someone read an article somewhere....

I need to venture over to EE more often

[Deleted]

May 9, 2012 16:08:02 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

"real men buy tampons, soak them in gin and then shove them up their asses for a nice quick buzz. "

Only men are supposed to do that??? <takes tampon out of ass>>

Ladies use bourbon

[imawino]

May 9, 2012 16:05:22 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

May 9, 2012 16:02:25 GMT -5 @craftysarah said:

Okay, that's some bad timing. But I do believe that real men can buy tampons.

real men buy tampons, soak them in gin and then shove them up their asses for a nice quick buzz.

Were you always this preoccupied with asses, or is this a new thing?

[Wisconsin Beth]

May 9, 2012 16:09:32 GMT -5 kindthatjingles said:

May 9, 2012 16:08:38 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

"Archie,

I am concerned that you are even aware that this is possible. "

LOL...it was a thread on EE a few months ago...started after someone read an article somewhere....

I need to venture over to EE more often

EE is fun. Bring a sense of humor and leave your inhibitions at home.

[swamp]

May 9, 2012 16:11:31 GMT -5 imawino said:

May 9, 2012 16:05:22 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

real men buy tampons, soak them in gin and then shove them up their asses for a nice quick buzz.

Were you always this preoccupied with asses, or is this a new thing?

I think Archie is experimenting. This is his mid life crisis.

[imawino]

May 9, 2012 16:09:49 GMT -5 @craftysarah said:

May 9, 2012 16:08:02 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

"real men buy tampons, soak them in gin and then shove them up their asses for a nice quick buzz. "

Only men are supposed to do that??? <takes tampon out of ass>>

Ladies use bourbon

I don't know....gin gives a nice fresh pine scent.

[Sum Dum Gai]

You guys realize that soaking gummy bears in vodka is way less of a pain in the ass if you're looking for a way to get buzzed on the sly, right?

ETA - Unless you work in the type of place where people would help themselves to your snacks... that could get awkward in a hurry.

[NancysSummerSip]

"Archie,

I am concerned that you are even aware that this is possible. "

LOL...it was a thread on EE a few months ago...started after someone read an article somewhere....

I recall that EE thread mentioned placing the tampon in a different orifice. And by different, I mean one that Archie would not have knowledge of, given that he is buzzng his wife in her behind.