College Grads Un- Under- Employed

[zibazinski]

Also, the degree du jour was physical therapy. Used to be a 4 year program. Not now. So the program added more years and requirements to get that degree as well. Nurses are in abundance in some areas as well. Teachers are surplus as well as lawyers but the schools keep churning them out. As parents and potential supporters of future or present college students, it's your YM duty to make sure your kids make wise choices!

[swamp]

How do we know what a wise choice is when the lucrative job from last year is this years glut?

[zibazinski]

That seems to be the big question of the day.

[zibazinski]

All I know is that no way would I pay for a degree where there is a waiting list of unemployed people in that area.

[zibazinski]

DF and I had a DISCUSSION because princess wants him to pay for her MBA. Her work would pay for it but s he doesn't want to work and go to school at the same time. Aww.

[midjd]

Midwest JD, just curious, do you work as a "real lawyer" or did you get one of those "other things you can do" with a law degree? Hope the question isn't offensive, I only use the quotations since that was the topic of your post, not trying to offend lawyers out there. Seems like half of what I post lately is offensive to someone.

No offense taken I'm not sure how I'd be classified. My job requires legal knowledge (research/writing, figuring out how legislation impacts certain agencies, creating sample orders and forms) and technically has to be staffed by a licensed attorney, but I don't represent individual clients, and a lot of what I do is not even remotely legal work (payroll for vendors, data collection, website maintenance.)

I think in one sense it handicaps me a bit - although I technically have 3 years of experience, I've handled a whopping 1 case and have never spent a day in a courtroom, so I'm about on par with the 2012 graduates. But I'm getting a broader range of skills than I otherwise would, and there are other agencies/firms/Legal Aid that are kind of a one-stop shop and have to know how to run an office and create a website and represent clients, so I may have an advantage there. And I like getting to do research without having to deal with people and their legal problems

I do think the law schools need to dramatically cut admissions, or even schools. There is no need for 180+ law schools to churn out 50,000+ attorneys each year, especially when many of these graduates are high 5 figures/low 6 figures in debt.

Edited to correct my numbers. I looked it up and found an interesting article. In 2009 there were about 53,000 attorneys who passed the bar and 26,000 job openings. economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/27/the-lawyer-surplus-state-by-state/

[tskeeter]

If I'm hiring at Starbucks, I'd probably take the English major over the Chemical Engineer.

Hmmm - I don't know. May not be as warm and fuzzy as the English major, but just think about what an awesome cup of coffee someone who really understands the chemistry of coffee roasting and brewing might be able to make.

Kind of like the CE winemaker friend of a neighbor. Buys the grapes rejected by the wineries and uses his knowledge of the chemistry to turn out top shelf wines that most winemakers can't touch.

Guess it depends on if you are selling warm and fuzzy or awesome coffee. Recognizing that in most retail situations, you are really selling good coffee and a better than average warm and fuzzy.

[midjd]

That's why you have the chemistry major locked in a back room brewing the coffee, and the English major up front chit-chatting with the patrons

[hurley1980]

Okay peeps....am I screwing myself here, or what? I am working on an AA in Technical Communications, which is basically tech writing and marketing combined. I was planning on getting my BA in either marketing, or english afterward. I'm hoping I will be able to get another decent job if I am ever laid off with these degrees, considering I have been doing marketing and admin for an engineering firm for 5 years already, and have 5 more years of admin on top of that. I'm just not a STEM degree kind of person. I was in honors english classes and remedial math classes in high school.

I guess if it doesn't pay off, I will have the benefit of not dealing with student loans at least. My company is paying for 75% and I am paying the rest out of pocket.

[Phoenix84]

Interesting, so midwestJD, could you be a judge one day? Is that something you'd want to do? Maybe your experience with a state agency could help with that?

Who knows, maybe you could be a family court judge, dealing with deadbeat moms/dads, he said/she said, and the drama!

[Phoenix84]

I got a degree in physics, but I'm by no means a "real scientlist." Truth be told, I don't really do much with my science knowledge. I actually mostly need to know regulations and how to apply them. But I do need to know some things like how to interpret data/readings and how these meet or do not meet regulations. And I do use some complex measuring equipment. So I guess I need some science. I don't use much math, but occassionally I need to use algebra on the job. So I guess in essence I didn't technically "need" a degree, since I think a bright high school graduate could learn much of this stuff, but it gives people a warm and fuzzy in regards to my qualifications, and HR says it needs a degree.

[Deleted]

Hurley, I think that is a great plan. I would love to get into technical writing, but I'd have to become a computer nerd, and that ain't happening.

Something about math has always intimidated me even though I got A's and B's up through pre-calc. I would have loved to be an astronomer if it wasn't for all that pesky chemistry and physics.

[midjd]

Phoenix, it sounds like you have the sciencey version of my job. I guess all us government bureaucrats are the same I would LOVE to be a judge someday. (My grandfather was an attorney, ran for circuit court judge, lost, and died a few years later, so it would be a real victory). I'd lose by a landslide if I had an opponent with any experience, but some judges in the smaller counties will run uncontested for 4-5 terms and then retire.

Hurley, I think marketing and admin are two overlooked fields. Marketing applies to EVERYTHING, it seems - there are very few jobs that don't somehow involve selling something. Your career trajectory looks good to me (especially great since you're not paying for most of your school! )

[973beachbum]

Apr 24, 2012 18:39:24 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

All I know is that no way would I pay for a degree where there is a waiting list of unemployed people in that area.

But at this point there isn't any degree/profession that doesn't have people unemployed waiting for a job. So does that mean they can't go to college if they want?

[zibazinski]

There are jobs that are still snapping people up. Qualified people. Plus, I do think you are going to see the stigma, I hope, of trade and technical schools vanish.

[zibazinski]

It may very well mean they can't go to college if they want. What for? To be unemployed and in debt? Makes zero sense.

[zibazinski]

I don't think it is. What become hard to grasp is that it costs the price of a home to go to college now so you want a good return. Spending thousands of dollars so your child can work at Starbucks is just sad. But who knows, maybe an employer will get a Starbucks and hire the worker?

[Deleted]

Also - I don't calculate a roi in mere dollars. I would want both my kids to have a basic BA degree - if not a masters - as a necessary precursor to being able think and consider ideas they may not be partial to, to evaluate the world logically, to converse intelligently on numerous topics with friends or potential mates, and to have exposure to well educated people to form friendships and relationships.

In short - I highly value an education for the sole purpose of being educated. It saddens me that this is lost to so many people.

BAH! You know that speaking eloquently and being well-rounded are completely useless. The world only needs people who know how to do exactly what their college major was and not a drop more.





FWIW, I agree with you 100% and it's a shame that people think of a college degree as only a means to an end.

[swamp]

Apr 25, 2012 9:58:30 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

I don't think it is. What become hard to grasp is that it costs the price of a home to go to college now so you want a good return. Spending thousands of dollars so your child can work at Starbucks is just sad. But who knows, maybe an employer will get a Starbucks and hire the worker?

Or, you could start out at Starbucks and move up the food chain when you impress your boss with your intitiative, intelligence, and work ethic.

My brother has a teaching degree. He hated the politics of teaching. He went into sales. When he had children, the sales was too much away time, so he started working at Lowe's as a lowly sales associate. After a 4 years, he's Assistant Store Manager and on his way to being a Store Manager. His 4 year degree is part of the reason he advanced so quickly.

Another example, my friend's brother started out as a barista (or whatever you call them) at Starbucks right out of college. He's now a regional manager.

Just because you start out down at the bottom doesn't mean you'll stay there.

[Deleted]

[formerroomate99]

In any event, do you believe you will get those kinds of offers when you are in your 40s, 50s, or 60s?

I certainly hope so. Before getting the job with the programming language I had never heard of, I had a track record of identifying what skills I needed to do my job better and acquiring them myself without any help from management. At my current job, I'm learning a new language/software every year or two, which is one reason I'm staying put. By the way, the language I got hired for isn't new, but there just weren't many people in this area with that skill.

This may be a shot in the dark, but if you haven't already done so, you want to start checking with the local headhunters and see if there is some skill you could acquire where companies would be willing to hire someone who doesn't have much experience.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Just because you start out down at the bottom doesn't mean you'll stay there.

Stop using logic! Everyone knows unless you graduate with one of hte four approved YM degrees you are doomed to be a burger flipper at McDonald's for the rest of your life.

[swamp]

It's like the person who feel put out and degraded by being a barista that doesn't advance. It is their attitude and job performance that blocks them.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

didn't that former CEO of mcdonalds start out as a dreaded "burger flipper"? And worked his way up to the very top - and I'm sure millions of dollars in pay yearly - in 25 years?

The man that took over being Director of the Henry Doorly Zoo for Lee Simmons started out picking up trash on zoo grounds at the age of 16.

[Deleted]

Apr 25, 2012 10:21:08 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Just because you start out down at the bottom doesn't mean you'll stay there.

Stop using logic! Everyone knows unless you graduate with one of hte four approved YM degrees you are doomed to be a burger flipper at McDonald's for the rest of your life.

Four?! I thought there were only three - accounting, engineering, and nursing.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I think IT is approved, too.

[swamp]

Apr 25, 2012 10:24:10 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

didn't that former CEO of mcdonalds start out as a dreaded "burger flipper"? And worked his way up to the very top - and I'm sure millions of dollars in pay yearly - in 25 years?

The man that took over being Director of the Henry Doorly Zoo for Lee Simmons started out picking up trash on zoo grounds at the age of 16.

I bet he has a degree in accounting.

[formerroomate99]

Also - I don't calculate a roi in mere dollars. I would want both my kids to have a basic BA degree - if not a masters - as a necessary precursor to being able think and consider ideas they may not be partial to, to evaluate the world logically, to converse intelligently on numerous topics with friends or potential mates, and to have exposure to well educated people to form friendships and relationships.

What makes you think most BA's give those skills anymore?

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I bet he has a degree in accounting.

I don't thin he has a degree at all. I think he *gasp* just worked his way up.

[swamp]

Apr 25, 2012 10:27:10 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

Also - I don't calculate a roi in mere dollars. I would want both my kids to have a basic BA degree - if not a masters - as a necessary precursor to being able think and consider ideas they may not be partial to, to evaluate the world logically, to converse intelligently on numerous topics with friends or potential mates, and to have exposure to well educated people to form friendships and relationships.

What makes you think most BA's give those skills anymore?

A degree doesn't give those skills, you're supposed to develop those skills in earning a degree.

It all depends on the person. A moron is a moron, but an intelligent person interested in learning and who is exposed to a liberal arts curicculum should develop those skills.