College Grads Un- Under- Employed

[phil5185]

The AP reported that half of recent grads are un- or under- employed. The story features a 23-yr-old in Seattle that has worked at Starbucks for 2 yrs because he can't get a 'real' job. His degree? Creative Writing. What do the 18-yr-old kids plan to do when they start school? Once upon a time we had Counselors and Placement Tests in HS, are they no longer around?

If a creative writing grad shows up in HR at the corporation that you work for, could you place them? Maybe the name is part of the problem - Journalism, English?

[hoops902]

Part of the problem is that reporting of underemployment is generally left up to the person being questioned. Many people think they are underemployed when they are not.

"If a creative writing grad shows up in HR at the corporation that you work for, could you place them? "

Yes, but they'd be an entry level cube monkey. And probably still reporting they are underemployed because they aren't making big money writing novels.

[Deleted]

Political Speechwriter ?


ETA: good point about self reporting of underemployment... guess i didn't know how that was done...

[formerroomate99]

High school guidance councilors only go so far, and they have a built in confilct of interest. It makes the high school look good if they can say more of their students went to college, even when college doesn't make financial sense for many of those students. And colleges love those liberal arts programs, because they can collect a tution for a class with no lab equipment and a poorly paid professor, so they've long since lowered the standards on many liberal arts programs to attract the party animal crowd.

I'm not sure if calling the degree Journalism or English would really help that much at my company. The only jobs in my company such a person could get would be ones that don't necessairly require college, and even those jobs would be hard for a newly minted college grad without prior experience to get.

[Rocky Mtn Saver]

What did the guy expect to net with his creative writing degree? And, I think I recall that he's mulling over investing more money in it by pursuing a graduate degree...

[Deleted]

Extending what former said, there are lots of people with conflicts of interest in this game... i really think a lot of college students are told they can do exactly what they want and make the big bucks in life...

I've been trying to convince a friend that her smarty daughter should get an engineering degree, and then if she wants to teach, adding on the cert is cake later... but teaching is 'what she really wants to do'... oh well, i guess its better than creative writing ??

[resolution]

I am still trying to figure out why a Masters in creative writing would be better than a Bachelors in creative writing.

[milee]

Apr 23, 2012 17:00:20 GMT -5 oped said:

Extending what former said, there are lots of people with conflicts of interest in this game... i really think a lot of college students are told they can do exactly what they want and make the big bucks in life...

I've been trying to convince a friend that her smarty daughter should get an engineering degree, and then if she wants to teach, adding on the cert is cake later... but teaching is 'what she really wants to do'... oh well, i guess its better than creative writing ??

Yeah, that's really frustrating. Both degrees take approximately the same time and cost the same, but one locks you into one profession and the other gives you multiple opportunities and the possibility of earning many times the other. Which one should you choose?

I've already started to have this talk with my kids. Of course I'll still love them and be proud of them if they get a degree in a less useful field, but I've been very upfront about the difference between a degree as an investment and a degree for a dream. I'll financially support an investment, but a "dream" degree will need to be funded out of their work and savings partly to test how much they really want that.

[lynnerself]

it's not always that simple. It is a tough employment market still. My DS has an engineering degree, although it is in aeronautical engineering. And he has been unable to find work in his field, even with a good GPA from a prestigious school.

[Deleted]

I think young people are steered into some fields with very little potential under the assumption that any and all college degrees will pay off.

[Deleted]

But if you have a good GPA from a good school in a degree that was solid in math and science, it is still fairly easy to get a job teaching math or science... lots of programs to help math and science majors teach... whereas if you get the teaching degree, its not like you can just take a class and suddenly be an engineer. Its about options and opportunities. Sure, you might not always get the job you want right of with an engineering degree either, but you have a whole lot more options than if you just get an elementary education degree...

[wvugurl26]

We issue reports and respond to Congressional inquiries so we have editors on staff. We have way more auditors and investigators than editors though. I think kids do need to consider the type of degree they are getting and their employment prospects.

[thyme4change]

I've been trying to convince a friend that her smarty daughter should get an engineering degree, and then if she wants to teach, adding on the cert is cake later... but teaching is 'what she really wants to do'... oh well, i guess its better than creative writing ??

Teaching is a respectable way to make a living. Yes, you won't be crazy-money-rich, but you can feed your family just fine on teaching. I don't know why we spend so much time talkign our best and brightest out of teaching. Yes, let's put the numbsack dumbshits into teaching, and then complain that kids ain't learning nuthing in skool.

[lynnerself]

Apr 23, 2012 17:43:54 GMT -5 oped said:

But if you have a good GPA from a good school in a degree that was solid in math and science, it is still fairly easy to get a job teaching math or science... lots of programs to help math and science majors teach... whereas if you get the teaching degree, its not like you can just take a class and suddenly be an engineer. Its about options and opportunities. Sure, you might not always get the job you want right of with an engineering degree either, but you have a whole lot more options than if you just get an elementary education degree...

Well, maybe. But not all engineers are going to make good teachers. I can not imagine my introverted, mechanically inclined, detail focused DS teaching kids. It would be a disservice to the students.

[findingdeadbeats]

My DS2 is a dwarf and since day 1 has said he will be an actor. He wants a degree in theater.... OMG. I keep asking him what he wants to do for a living, act of course. Okay, and your backup plan should be what your degree is in. I want to major in theater. Round and round we go.

Part of the problem with college today is that our HS doesn't educate kids well and a degree for most of them really is like a high school diploma was just a couple decades ago. Add to that the concept that they now can get a ton of student loans and you have the current college debt situation.

[Deleted]

Speaking as someone who dropped the engineering program in freshman year to get a teaching degree... one way to ensure more numbsack dumbshit teachers is to let them coast through what passes as an undergraduate teacher education program in this country... I didn't say she shouldn't teach... but no reason she can't teach with an engineering degree... rather than an el ed one... she is smart... extremely... and while i don't think she'd be wasted on a teaching job... i do think her intellect and prospects would be wasted settling for a teaching prep program...

[thyme4change]

But if you have a good GPA from a good school in a degree that was solid in math and science, it is still fairly easy to get a job teaching math or science... lots of programs to help math and science majors teach

So, there are no skills that are learned that make people good teachers? No strategies? No theories of learning? Anyone that does math can just run out and start teaching math? No problem? I think not!

[taz157]

Apr 23, 2012 16:54:55 GMT -5 Rocky Mtn Saver said:

What did the guy expect to net with his creative writing degree? And, I think I recall that he's mulling over investing more money in it by pursuing a graduate degree...

I thought the same thing (i.e., expect with a creative writing degree).

Yes to him mulling over pursuing a graduate degree...

[Deleted]

Apr 23, 2012 17:57:50 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

But if you have a good GPA from a good school in a degree that was solid in math and science, it is still fairly easy to get a job teaching math or science... lots of programs to help math and science majors teach

So, there are no skills that are learned that make people good teachers? No strategies? No theories of learning? Anyone that does math can just run out and start teaching math? No problem? I think not!

There are a few methods courses i'm sure she'd have to pick up... much easier than adding an engineering degree to teaching certification..

[thyme4change]

If a creative writing grad shows up in HR at the corporation that you work for, could you place them?

We were hiring an administrative support role and one of the qualifications was a degree of any kind. So, technically, the guy might be able to get a job here. But, it would probably pay about what Starbucks would. Now, here he would meet people and prove himself and possibly move up to a writing position - but it would be advertising and marketing writing, not novels and stories.

[Rocky Mtn Saver]

Apr 23, 2012 17:55:09 GMT -5 lynnerself said:

Apr 23, 2012 17:43:54 GMT -5 oped said:

But if you have a good GPA from a good school in a degree that was solid in math and science, it is still fairly easy to get a job teaching math or science... lots of programs to help math and science majors teach... whereas if you get the teaching degree, its not like you can just take a class and suddenly be an engineer. Its about options and opportunities. Sure, you might not always get the job you want right of with an engineering degree either, but you have a whole lot more options than if you just get an elementary education degree...

Well, maybe. But not all engineers are going to make good teachers. I can not imagine my introverted, mechanically inclined, detail focused DS teaching kids. It would be a disservice to the students.

Same problem can occur in Accounting programs. Our program had a terrible time finding people to teach our tax classes who were both qualified/experienced at taxes and able to communicate well and structure/teach classes.

[phil5185]

an engineering degree, although it is in aeronautical engineering. And he has been unable to find work in his field, even with a good GPA from a prestigious school.

He might do well to get a dual degree - perhaps add mechanical engineering. If his AE curriculum had a full complement of science/math (ie, 156 hours) he might be able to do it in one semester. If he went to a 126 hour school, it might take 3 semesters. In any case, there are plenty of ME jobs - CAT, Deere, automotive, truck manufacture, Intel, Microsoft, Microchip, General Dynamics. Raytheon. But not the aircraft manufacturers - Boeing has downsized.

[Deleted]

But you can see how having an engineering degree will open more avenues of employment than say having a teaching degree ... ?

The girl i am specifically talking about does have the pre-requiste abilities i would look for in a teacher. She also has the aptitude to handle an engineering program....

[thyme4change]

My neice was an engineering student, but I don't think she went to a high quality program. I'm sure it was fine - but it isn't one of those prestigious schools. It probably isn't even recognizable. She is not working as an engineer. My person opinion on why she hasn't gotten an engineering job is that she wasn't desperate enough. There is something about getting that first job where if times are tight (or your industry is tight) you have to go in begging and they have to know that you will do anything to please them.

[CarolinaKat]

Apr 23, 2012 17:55:09 GMT -5 lynnerself said:

Apr 23, 2012 17:43:54 GMT -5 oped said:

But if you have a good GPA from a good school in a degree that was solid in math and science, it is still fairly easy to get a job teaching math or science... lots of programs to help math and science majors teach... whereas if you get the teaching degree, its not like you can just take a class and suddenly be an engineer. Its about options and opportunities. Sure, you might not always get the job you want right of with an engineering degree either, but you have a whole lot more options than if you just get an elementary education degree...

Well, maybe. But not all engineers are going to make good teachers. I can not imagine my introverted, mechanically inclined, detail focused DS teaching kids. It would be a disservice to the students.

I'm an engineer. I would stab the stupid people if I had to teach... I do okay when I'm dealing with people who get concepts quickly, but loose patience with ones that don't

[Sharon]

This is our neighbors daughter. She graduated about 4 years ago with a degree in English and has been mostly living with Mom and Dad. She had been working for Starbucks for several years. She did finally get a job as an office person with a physician and discovered that Starbucks had better insurance. I'm not sure what she is doing now except that she seems to work in the evening and she back home. Apparently the house with 5 other girls didn't work out.

One time when I was talking with her mother she said we were told that there were lots of jobs out there and if you had a degree you could get a job. I suspect that neither parent has a degree but has made a decent life for their family by working hard and living within their means and figured that if their DD got a degree that she would also have a good/better life. I also suspect that her parents were hoping that she would also get her MRS.

[Sum Dum Gai]

I am still trying to figure out why a Masters in creative writing would be better than a Bachelors in creative writing.

Easy, with the masters he can become a professor and teach creative writing to the next generation of Starbucks baristas.

[thyme4change]

One time when I was talking with her mother she said we were told that there were lots of jobs out there and if you had a degree you could get a job.

Probably true-ish 5 years ago. Maybe not so much today. It will be true again in the future.

I know that degrees aren't really "necessary" but as they become more prevelant, it will be harder to compete without one. Even one in underwater basket-weaving. (Side note - did you know the basket is underwater, not the weaver?) It will be a check-box thing, like a high school degree is.

[steph08]

Wow, another thread bashing English majors. Shocker. I graduated with a B.A. in English and Editing in 2007. I had two job offers before graduation for writing positions and accepted one. Still gainfully employed. And I live in a fairly rural area.

I think it is more the person obtaining the degree than the field that the degree is in. I would never have settled for Starbucks or waitressing or being an assistant.

[Phoenix84]

"Once upon a time we had Counselors and Placement Tests in HS, are they no longer around?"

They had counselors in high school when I graduated (2003) but they were pretty useless. They don't counsel you on how to choose a field where you can get a job. For me personally, my senior year, the counselor called me to her office, and asked what my plans were. I said I'm going to XYZ university, I've already been accepted. That was about it and she called down the next person. All they really care about is that you're going to college in high school, they don't care for what. It's all about advertising "80% of our students went to college!"

Fortunately I majored in physics and haven't had much trouble finding employment.

In my agency, they could probably hire them to fill jobs that dont require a degree in the first place, like low level techs or administrative positions.