College Grads Un- Under- Employed

[Deleted]

Apr 25, 2012 10:27:10 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

Also - I don't calculate a roi in mere dollars. I would want both my kids to have a basic BA degree - if not a masters - as a necessary precursor to being able think and consider ideas they may not be partial to, to evaluate the world logically, to converse intelligently on numerous topics with friends or potential mates, and to have exposure to well educated people to form friendships and relationships.

What makes you think most BA's give those skills anymore?

there's these things called electives that you have to take for your degree. My college had a "non-western course" requirement, so to graduate I had to take 2 classes dealing with Middle Eastern or Eastern society/history. One of those classes was called Third World Women. I learned about FGM and other ways where women were mistreated in thrid world countries, and it really made me realize just how fortunate I am to have been born in this country.

[formerroomate99]

I don't think it is. What become hard to grasp is that it costs the price of a home to go to college now so you want a good return. Spending thousands of dollars so your child can work at Starbucks is just sad. But who knows, maybe an employer will get a Starbucks and hire the worker?

Or, you could start out at Starbucks and move up the food chain when you impress your boss with your intitiative, intelligence, and work ethic.

That only works if you're a bubbly extrovert and a good schmoozer, though. All the intelligence and work ethic in the world won't do a bit of good if don't have the right disposition. And working your way up means spending many years earning peanuts with student loans hanging over your head. In some ways, if that's what you want to do, then it makes a lot more sense to work at Starbucks full time, and go to school part time using any tuition reimbursement they offer, rather than racking up debt for a degree that doesn't give you any hard skills.

[swamp]

Apr 25, 2012 10:34:45 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

Apr 25, 2012 10:27:10 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

What makes you think most BA's give those skills anymore?

there's these things called electives that you have to take for your degree. My college had a "non-western course" requirement, so to graduate I had to take 2 classes dealing with Middle Eastern or Eastern society/history. One of those classes was called Third World Women. I learned about FGM and other ways where women were mistreated in thrid world countries, and it really made me realize just how fortunate I am to have been born in this country.

And how unfortunate for you that you were forced to take classes that did not contribute to your bottom line.

[swamp]

Apr 25, 2012 10:36:04 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

I don't think it is. What become hard to grasp is that it costs the price of a home to go to college now so you want a good return. Spending thousands of dollars so your child can work at Starbucks is just sad. But who knows, maybe an employer will get a Starbucks and hire the worker?

Or, you could start out at Starbucks and move up the food chain when you impress your boss with your intitiative, intelligence, and work ethic.

.
That only works if you're a bubbly extrovert and a good schmoozer, though. All the intelligence and work ethic in the world won't do a bit of good if don't have the right disposition. And working your way up means spending many years earning peanuts with student loans hanging over your head. In some ways, if that's what you want to do, then it makes a lot more sense to work at Starbucks full time, and go to school part time using any tuition reimbursement they offer, rather than racking up debt for a degree that doesn't give you any hard skills.

We'll respectfully agree to disagree, and I'm going to take my degree in French Literature with a concentration in Quebecois Culture and go home.

And by the way, the most important skill I learned in college is how to work a party. That has served me better than any class.

[Deleted]

Some majors are great for personal growth. I just don't think you should take a major that doesn't pay very well, take a ton of student loans for it, and then wonder why employers don't think you are as valuable as you think you are. It's the cost of college and the prospects for employment that make certain degrees relatively dangerous.

[formerroomate99]

Apr 25, 2012 10:34:45 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

Apr 25, 2012 10:27:10 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

What makes you think most BA's give those skills anymore?

there's these things called electives that you have to take for your degree. My college had a "non-western course" requirement, so to graduate I had to take 2 classes dealing with Middle Eastern or Eastern society/history. One of those classes was called Third World Women. I learned about FGM and other ways where women were mistreated in thrid world countries, and it really made me realize just how fortunate I am to have been born in this country.

Many majors in many colleges let you enter and leave with 8th grade math and science skills. Sorry, that doesn't meet my definition of well rounded. And all these electives are well and good, but when most of them are 'fluff' classes that don't require much effort, you can get more well rounded using a library card. Neither of my father's parents went to school past 8th grade, but they were both more well rounded than most BA's I've met. They weren't 'educated' but they knew how to read and had a love of learning.

[muttleynfelix]

Apr 25, 2012 10:36:22 GMT -5 swamp said:

Apr 25, 2012 10:34:45 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

there's these things called electives that you have to take for your degree. My college had a "non-western course" requirement, so to graduate I had to take 2 classes dealing with Middle Eastern or Eastern society/history. One of those classes was called Third World Women. I learned about FGM and other ways where women were mistreated in thrid world countries, and it really made me realize just how fortunate I am to have been born in this country.

And how unfortunate for you that you were forced to take classes that did not contribute to your bottom line.

Even engineering schools require you to take silly humanities classes. I was required to take either a fine art or philosophy class to get my degree. I barely survived. We were also required to take 2 upper level courses in either humanities or social sciences (which was much more enjoyable). But going to a school that was pretty much strictly engineering, they wanted us to at least attempt to get a well rounded education as that made us more marketable and frankly made the school look better.

[midjd]

That only works if you're a bubbly extrovert and a good schmoozer, though. All the intelligence and work ethic in the world won't do a bit of good if don't have the right disposition.

I also respectfully disagree - although I only have anecdotal evidence to back up my argument

DH, who doesn't have a degree, is a very quiet, soft-spoken guy. He is intelligent and has a tremendous work ethic, but if you're in a room full of people he is the one standing in the corner looking awkward... definitely not a schmoozer He's still managed to work his way up to a management position in his last 3 jobs (retail, manufacturing, and now at an auto dealership). Maybe he's the exception that proves the rule, but I think his willingness to learn, and work ethic, have usually spoken for themselves.

[thyme4change]

I think IT is approved, too.

I'm not sure. I do know if you mention IT, Savior has a standard rant about how bad of an field it is now. I think he just cuts and pastes it from his word document of responses.

[swamp]

Many majors in many colleges let you enter and leave with 8th grade math and science skills

You must have gone to a crappy college.

[swamp]

Apr 25, 2012 10:55:03 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

I think IT is approved, too.

I'm not sure. I do know if you mention IT, Savior has a standard rant about how bad of an field it is now. I think he just cuts and pastes it from his word document of responses.

It's filed right next to "the feminization of America"

[formerroomate99]

We'll respectfully agree to disagree, and I'm going to take my degree in French Literature with a concentration in Quebecois Culture and go home.

I think you're misinterpreting me. Soft skills are vitally important if you are going into any form of management. And if you're going into a field when you can expect to go into a well paying job, taking on debt so you can graduate faster and start making real money faster makes financial sense. But if you're going into a field where you're going to have to spend years 'paying your dues', then it makes sense to start paying your dues ASAP, going to college at a slower pace, and avioding incurring lots of debt. Of course, this only applies to fields where you can get that first job without a degree.

[formerroomate99]

Apr 25, 2012 10:55:42 GMT -5 swamp said:

Many majors in many colleges let you enter and leave with 8th grade math and science skills

You must have gone to a crappy college.

Actually, two. But I think it is an absurd fantasy to think that most colleges aren't crappy. Grade inflation and all. Most BA's I've met with degrees in the non scientific fields are pretty ignorant of math and science.

[thyme4change]

Soft skills are vitally important if you are going into any form of management.

Is this what they call "EQ" now - or is that now a passee term? I wish my business degree had given me a class that forced me to figure out people. I think a mandatory "Business Psychology" class would have helped me a lot. I did take Organizational Behavior - that was good. But I needed more. Another class I think every person in the universe should take is Drama/Acting. There isn't a person on earth who couldn't benefit from learning how to control their feelings and make their outer appearance, body language, etc, say something that isn't completely honest. If nothing else, it would make you a better poker player.

[Deleted]

Apr 25, 2012 10:41:46 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

Many majors in many colleges let you enter and leave with 8th grade math and science skills.

Ha! I still remember the Elementary Ed majors who signed up for my Linear Algebra class. They had their choice of Baby Calculus or Linear Algebra. The latter had "Algebra" in it so they chose that. We didn't see a matrix the first 6 weeks; it was all theory. Most of them lasted less than a week.

[973beachbum]

Apr 25, 2012 10:59:05 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

Apr 25, 2012 10:55:42 GMT -5 swamp said:

You must have gone to a crappy college.

Actually, two. But I think it is an absurd fantasy to think that most colleges aren't crappy. Grade inflation and all. Most BA's I've met with degrees in the non scientific fields are pretty ignorant of math and science.

DH teaches at a lowly CC and they can't even matriculate with that level of math or English, so I call BS on this.

Now if you are saying that you have met people who graduted a few or a bunch of years ago from college and havent used that math or science and forgot it then I believe you. But just remember that that means everything you have ever forgot in your life is also because you are a moron.

[movingforward]

Apr 25, 2012 10:59:05 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

Apr 25, 2012 10:55:42 GMT -5 swamp said:

You must have gone to a crappy college.

Actually, two. But I think it is an absurd fantasy to think that most colleges aren't crappy. Grade inflation and all. Most BA's I've met with degrees in the non scientific fields are pretty ignorant of math and science.

Why would you need to have a vast knowledge of math and science if you are not in the math and science industry? Both of my majors only required college algebra and two sciences. For what I do I really only need business math skills. I have never once used algebra since graduating college.

And furthermore, why is it okay for math and science majors to not be "well rounded" by having to take more English, History and Foreign Languages (after all those subjects are obviously a waste of time) but when a History major is not well-rounded because they only have to take one math class that makes them a moron.

[973beachbum]

Apr 25, 2012 11:56:08 GMT -5 movingforward said:

Apr 25, 2012 10:59:05 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

Actually, two. But I think it is an absurd fantasy to think that most colleges aren't crappy. Grade inflation and all. Most BA's I've met with degrees in the non scientific fields are pretty ignorant of math and science.

Why would you need to have a vast knowledge of math and science if you are not in the math and science industry? Both of my majors only required college algebra and two sciences. For what I do I really only need business math skills. I have never once used algebra since graduating college.

And furthermore, why is it okay for math and science majors to not be "well rounded" by having to take more English, History and Foreign Languages (after all those subjects are obviously a waste of time) but when a History major is not well-rounded because they only have to take one math class that makes them a moron.

Because YM said so silly!

[Deleted]

I would want both my kids to have a basic BA degree - if not a masters - as a necessary precursor to being able think and consider ideas they may not be partial to, to evaluate the world logically, to converse intelligently on numerous topics with friends or potential mates, and to have exposure to well educated people to form friendships and relationships.

I disagree. I do not have a college degree and yet I still posses logic skills, an ability to converse intelligently on numerous topics and have been exposed to well educated people without it.

Your life will be as enriching as you make it, with or without the "sheepskin".

ETA: And as for the Starbucks barista -- if they want to move up to management I would forego taking any college classes unless they are a requirement for a Management position. Going to college to obtain a BA degree just to have a BA is a waste of time and money IMO.

[Deleted]

And furthermore, why is it okay for math and science majors to not be "well rounded" by having to take more English, History and Foreign Languages (after all those subjects are obviously a waste of time) but when a History major is not well-rounded because they only have to take one math class that makes them a moron.

because it's the argument that works in favor of the person using it.

[telephus44]

Apr 25, 2012 10:59:05 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

Apr 25, 2012 10:55:42 GMT -5 swamp said:

You must have gone to a crappy college.

Actually, two. But I think it is an absurd fantasy to think that most colleges aren't crappy. Grade inflation and all. Most BA's I've met with degrees in the non scientific fields are pretty ignorant of math and science.

I was originally going to be a computer science / math double major. I took AP Calculus in high school, and breezed through Linear Algebra. It was Multi-Variable Calc that kicked my ass. I also passed Comp Sci 1, but had issues with Comp Sci 2 since I couldn't deal with the syntax of C++. Got the theory, just not detailed enough to deal with the syntax.

So that's how I ended up with degrees in Latin and Ancient Greek. And about half of my day is spent working with number (estimating pricing). Go figure.

Of course, I'm not "most" people with degrees in non-scientific fields...

[Deleted]

Apr 25, 2012 10:59:05 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

Apr 25, 2012 10:55:42 GMT -5 swamp said:

You must have gone to a crappy college.

Actually, two. But I think it is an absurd fantasy to think that most colleges aren't crappy. Grade inflation and all. Most BA's I've met with degrees in the non scientific fields are pretty ignorant of math and science.

ok, now I'm CERTAIN you're female Sheldon Cooper.

[swamp]

Apr 25, 2012 12:34:52 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

Apr 25, 2012 10:59:05 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

Actually, two. But I think it is an absurd fantasy to think that most colleges aren't crappy. Grade inflation and all. Most BA's I've met with degrees in the non scientific fields are pretty ignorant of math and science.

ok, now I'm CERTAIN you're female Sheldon Cooper.

That would be Amy Farrah Fowler.

[973beachbum]

Apr 25, 2012 12:36:16 GMT -5 swamp said:

Apr 25, 2012 12:34:52 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

ok, now I'm CERTAIN you're female Sheldon Cooper.

That would be Amy Farrah Fowler.

OMG!

[formerroomate99]

And furthermore, why is it okay for math and science majors to not be "well rounded" by having to take more English, History and Foreign Languages (after all those subjects are obviously a waste of time) but when a History major is not well-rounded because they only have to take one math class that makes them a moron.

At the first college I went to, I had to take 9 humanities classes, and they weren't the remedial Mickey Mouse classes for non majors either. I took English classes with the English majors, history with the history majors, social work with the social work majors. How many of you non-science majors had to take that many non-remedial math and science classes, the same classes the science majors were taking? I'm not sure if this is the norm. I guess we'll have to take a poll on this.

At the second college I attended, most students didn't have to take anything higher than 'college' algebra, and maybe a couple of remedial science classes, but they were in the process of doing away with the college algebra requirement since half of the non-science majors flunked it anyway.

[midjd]

How many of you non-science majors had to take that many non-remedial math and science classes, the same classes the science majors were taking? I'm not sure if this is the norm. I guess we'll have to take a poll on this.

Me me me! Well, I took the calculus and biology AP tests so I didn't have to take those in college, but there were at least 6 "non fuzzy" courses I had to take - they let you choose between Chemistry, Physics, etc. but you had to take a minimum number. This was at a small, private liberal arts college.

[Chocolate Lover]

Apr 25, 2012 12:36:16 GMT -5 swamp said:

Apr 25, 2012 12:34:52 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

ok, now I'm CERTAIN you're female Sheldon Cooper.

That would be Amy Farrah Fowler.

Suddenly I want to shout...

BAZINGA!!!!!

[Sum Dum Gai]

ETA: And as for the Starbucks barista -- if they want to move up to management I would forego taking any college classes unless they are a requirement for a Management position. Going to college to obtain a BA degree just to have a BA is a waste of time and money IMO.

Blasphemy!!!! We all know that the STEM majors take all the good jobs, the Humanities majors take all the burger flipping jobs, the illegals take all the jobs that don't require a degree, and the 60% of us without a college degree are all on welfare.

[movingforward]

Apr 25, 2012 14:01:34 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

And furthermore, why is it okay for math and science majors to not be "well rounded" by having to take more English, History and Foreign Languages (after all those subjects are obviously a waste of time) but when a History major is not well-rounded because they only have to take one math class that makes them a moron.

At the first college I went to, I had to take 9 humanities classes, and they weren't the remedial Mickey Mouse classes for non majors either. I took English classes with the English majors, history with the history majors, social work with the social work majors. How many of you non-science majors had to take that many non-remedial math and science classes, the same classes the science majors were taking? I'm not sure if this is the norm. I guess we'll have to take a poll on this.

At the second college I attended, most students didn't have to take anything higher than 'college' algebra, and maybe a couple of remedial science classes, but they were in the process of doing away with the college algebra requirement since half of the non-science majors flunked it anyway.

Interesting. There were no science majors in my advanced history classes. Science and math majors were in things like American History 101 and English 101. In fact, I believe our advanced classes in certain majors were reserved for majors of that particular field. In other words, majors got first dibs on the seats available.

[swamp]

At the first college I went to, I had to take 9 humanities classes, and they weren't the remedial Mickey Mouse classes for non majors either. I took English classes with the English majors, history with the history majors, social work with the social work majors. How many of you non-science majors had to take that many non-remedial math and science classes, the same classes the science majors were taking? I'm not sure if this is the norm. I guess we'll have to take a poll on this.

I took the same math, science, and English courses the majors took. We didn't have remedial courses at my college.