College Grads Un- Under- Employed

[bean29]

I think it is interesting that things like Pre-Law and Biochemical Sciences are on the list. I would think those are precursors to a more advanced degree and if you don't get the advanced degree you might have employment problems with your undergraduate degree (applies to psychology majors too). I do have a cousin who has a Biology Degree and she works for the State of MN. I think she is well employed, but I have the impression she is concerned about job security.

I thought it was interesting below the article was a link that said 8 reasons not to get a business degree, and it claimed that businesses don't want to hire business majors - yet business did not appear on the list? DS plans to major in business so I looked at it.

[swasat]

Apr 24, 2012 9:40:13 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

But he makes just about what people on this board constantly post a undergrad student will make as an intern

I bet your DH had a public school education where all other kids drank the StupidAid.

Fixed. ;D

[formerroomate99]

I guarantee an engineering degree costs more than a teaching degree due to more expensive books plus lab fees and engineering tools. Not to meniton, maybe she has no interest in an engineering degree. Maybe she doens't like math and science. Just because someone is smart doesn't mean they should major in engineering.

There are varying types of 'book smart', the math/science variety, law/debate/philosopy, accounting, etc, and as much as I am guilty of bashing non-stem majors, the other types of intelligence are damn important.

On the other hand, there is a difference between having the job you want and having the life you want. I know many people who 'followed their bliss' in their degrees and have bounced around from one low paying job to another dealing with psycho bosses, backstabbing coworkers. When you're a dime a dozen, employers have no reason to treat you well and you're going to face stiff competition for jobs. That can zap the joy out of even the coolest job.

And let's not discount the other types of intelligence. Somebody who has emotional intelligence can have a brilliant career in sales without much education. Somebody who is mechanically inclined can do very well in the trades without a 4 year degree.

[workpublic]

I heard the craziest little factoid several weeks ago on NPR. Apparently US universities graduate more Journalism majors every year than the total number of journalism positions in the country. Every year. That's friggin nuts. I don't know that any other major is that over saturated.


i just saw that there are 4 lawyers graduating or already out there for every one lawyer job available.

[Deleted]

Apr 24, 2012 9:41:45 GMT -5 bean29 said:

I think it is interesting that things like Pre-Law and Biochemical Sciences are on the list. I would think those are precursors to a more advanced degree and if you don't get the advanced degree you might have employment problems with your undergraduate degree (applies to psychology majors too).

Yup - I did. I planned to go to law school, but the LSATs scared the living crap out of me and I didn't apply. I have a Philosophy degree. My first job was as a bank teller making less than $10/hr. Then I got a job in the ordering department of a store making $12/hr. Now I am a logistics admin at a global corporation now making just under $40k. Yeah yeah yeah, if I majored in something else I could have been making $40k out of the gate (I actually had a test for a position with the state department of taxation scheduled for the morning after graduation, but I canceled it. IDIOT!!!), but I had reasons for my choices and I don't know if I would have done things differently.

[midjd]

i just saw that there are 4 lawyers graduating or already out there for every one lawyer job available.

Wouldn't surprise me. The employment rates for my class (09) and the 2010-2011 classes are abysmal, and I went to a pretty good school. Luckily there are other things you can do with a law degree, although the six figures in student loans for most graduates put a damper on the lower-paid professions...

[formerroomate99]

Apr 24, 2012 9:45:43 GMT -5 workpublic said:

I heard the craziest little factoid several weeks ago on NPR. Apparently US universities graduate more Journalism majors every year than the total number of journalism positions in the country. Every year. That's friggin nuts. I don't know that any other major is that over saturated.

I've heard it's the same for pure math and english PhD's. I went to a 3rd rate party school for grad school and the entire math department was staffed by ivy league grads, yet they were telling the PhD students in pure math (i.e. only employable in academia) that they had a chance. Pure fiction.

[workpublic]

the bottom line is that there are too many people and too few jobs(good bad or other).

[formerroomate99]

Sorry, but i think this is pretty offensive to teachers. I really get sick of reading the barrage of teacher bashing.

I think teaching is a very hard profession, and I have a lot of respect for anybody who does it well. But this person was bashing the teaching degree, not teachers, and any reasonably intelligent person who actually read the post would be able to see that distinction. We all know that a teaching degree is one of the easiest college majors out there. I mean really, how often do you hear of somebody who is really trying flunking an education class?

[Deleted]

Apr 24, 2012 8:28:03 GMT -5 Opti said:

I would love to know what these more options are speaking as a holder of two engineering degrees.

I work with a lot of great actuaries who have engineering degrees.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I would think those are precursors to a more advanced degree and if you don't get the advanced degree you might have employment problems with your undergraduate degree (applies to psychology majors too).

It depends. If I want to stay in academia I am going to have problems moving up without an advanced degree. Heck I am going to ahve problems moving up WITH an advanced degree in academia.

Problem is academic and research funding is being cut left and right, there isn't enough money to go around right now.

No one is secure besides tenured professors and you could be well into your 40's-50s before you get one of those, if ever.

That's another 5-6 years of schooling that more than likely won't pay off for me unless a large population of professors die/retire.

There are too many people in line with PhDs already trying to compete for those few positions that require PhDs in academia.

I am exploring private and so far I can get A LOT further in both pay and advancement with just my bachelor's. I'll hit a cap at some point, that's not unexpected.

The glass ceiling is a lot higher in private industry than it is in academia.

[telephus44]

How many people actually work in the field that they got their degree in? I have one of those useless degrees, and I've never worked a job related to my field. What most potential employers do when they see my resume is think that if I could get a degree from a prestigious university in an obscure subject, I must be smart (I know, because I've gotten this exact feedback after being hired). I imagine the STEM majors must be more pigeonholed when looking for jobs. If I'm hiring at Starbucks, I'd probably take the English major over the Chemical Engineer.

[Deleted]

The chemical engineer will never apply for a Starbucks job. They're too busy getting a six figure job offer while they're a sophomore in college.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I've waited tables with an STEM degree.

I am not supposed to share that am I?

[swasat]

I don't understand how YM started believing that all STEM majors start their working life with 6 figure jobs. Is there any STEM major here whose first job paid that much?

I am a STEM major, in one of the higher paying STEM fields. I started my first job job at 45K in the late 90s. I have never known any STEM field to start off freshers out of college at 6 figure income. PHDs, maybe. Bachelors and Masters holders, never. So who here has held that prestigious first job with 100K+compensation? Somebody please enlighten me.

[formerroomate99]

What most potential employers do when they see my resume is think that if I could get a degree from a prestigious university in an obscure subject, I must be smart (I know, because I've gotten this exact feedback after being hired). I imagine the STEM majors must be more pigeonholed when looking for jobs.

Actually, I was told that my advanced STEM degree from a no-name university is the reason I was hired for a job programming in a language I had never heard of. My boss knew that someone with a 'math brain' would be trainable. And with engineering, in many cases, all the engineering degree does is prove that you can learn, most of the training happens on the job, not in the classroom. This is true in many STEM fields.

[midjd]

Actually, I was told that my advanced STEM degree from a no-name university is the reason I was hired for a job programming in a language I had never heard of. My boss knew that someone with a 'math brain' would be trainable. And with engineering, in many cases, all the engineering degree does is prove that you can learn, most of the training happens on the job, not in the classroom. This is true in many STEM fields.

So now we have evidence that both STEM and non-STEM degrees can help you get jobs in areas outside one's major. There you go. No bashing of either is necessary. Or does your story cancel out Telephus's post?

[Sum Dum Gai]

Isnt that what Darks wife has and she has never been able to find work

Nope, her degree is Modern American Lit... I think. It's something like that. She found a job right after graduation. It paid $10/hr though, her hours were irregular, and her boss was a nut. She would have been better off working at Starbucks.

[swasat]

And with engineering, in many cases, all the engineering degree does is prove that you can learn, most of the training happens on the job, not in the classroom. This is true in many STEM fields.

Exactly. The STEM degree teaches you the basics. One can learn about machines and stuff, which of course is a must. But the actual implementation is learnt on the job.

[Deleted]

Apr 24, 2012 10:36:34 GMT -5 midjd said:

Actually, I was told that my advanced STEM degree from a no-name university is the reason I was hired for a job programming in a language I had never heard of. My boss knew that someone with a 'math brain' would be trainable. And with engineering, in many cases, all the engineering degree does is prove that you can learn, most of the training happens on the job, not in the classroom. This is true in many STEM fields.

So now we have evidence that both STEM and non-STEM degrees can help you get jobs in areas outside one's major. There you go. No bashing of either is necessary. Or does your story cancel out Telephus's post?

I'm going with the second one.

[formerroomate99]

I'm inclined to think that many degrees only show the ability to learn, some more than others, some in different areas than others. For example, a degree in engineering would show the ability to learn a programming language but not necessairly sales, while a degree in psychology would be the opposite.

[milee]

Apr 24, 2012 9:46:13 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

Apr 24, 2012 9:41:45 GMT -5 bean29 said:

I think it is interesting that things like Pre-Law and Biochemical Sciences are on the list. I would think those are precursors to a more advanced degree and if you don't get the advanced degree you might have employment problems with your undergraduate degree (applies to psychology majors too).

Yup - I did. I planned to go to law school, but the LSATs scared the living crap out of me and I didn't apply. I have a Philosophy degree. My first job was as a bank teller making less than $10/hr. Then I got a job in the ordering department of a store making $12/hr. Now I am a logistics admin at a global corporation now making just under $40k. Yeah yeah yeah, if I majored in something else I could have been making $40k out of the gate (I actually had a test for a position with the state department of taxation scheduled for the morning after graduation, but I canceled it. IDIOT!!!), but I had reasons for my choices and I don't know if I would have done things differently.

OK, but take a step back from the emotional parts of the post and the defensiveness you feel because you think people are insulting you personally. I'm not insulting you and respect your decision to do whatever you want as long as it doesn't involve me, which clearly in this case it doesn't.

I'm simply saying that it will probably cost me $150k - $200k to send my kid to college. It's not unreasonable to consider the size of that investment when it comes to choosing a major. If he is in love with and wants to pursue a major that will most likely only enable him to get a job as a bank teller at $10 an hour, then it's just not a good idea to sink $150k - $200k into that degree, don't you think?

We will all have heard of anecdotes where a person with no degree has a job making six figures and a person with a STEM/tech degree can't even get a job, but let's be honest about the odds here. A STEM/tech degree gives you more options. That's all I'm saying and it's not a value judgment.

Make whatever choices you want with your own family, it's none of our business. But with my family, I want to choose how best to spend this incredibly large hunk of cash and four years of life. IMHO, this is an investment like any other and the greatest odds of success lie with STEM/tech or other highly marketable degree. If my kid wants to do something that doesn't require such a degree, I will love him and wish him the best, but it would be dumb to spend $200k on that.

This is my kid - I love him and will always think he's brilliant no matter what degree or career he chooses. If he wants to be an underwater basket weaver and can live within his means, I won't be critical of that - I'll be bragging about him. But I'm not sinking $200k into college for that.

[thyme4change]

The chemical engineer will never apply for a Starbucks job. They're too busy getting a six figure job offer while they're a sophomore in college.

My sister was a chemical engineering major. She did not work at Starbucks, because it wasn't invented yet. She did work in a fabric store. She hated engineering, hated her degree, but loved Chemistry. My father thought it was a waste of such an extraordinary brain to do anything but engineering, so he forced her into it. She went back and got a straight Chemistry BS and then worked in lab, which she loved.

But, yes, we should encourage everyone who is smart to do engineering degrees, even if they have absolutely no interest in it. That wouldn't waste any time or effort by anyone. And really, we know what is best for everyone. If only they would just listen to us, and do something they absolutely hate - then they will be happy.

[Deleted]

Apr 24, 2012 11:16:01 GMT -5 milee said:

Apr 24, 2012 9:46:13 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

Yup - I did. I planned to go to law school, but the LSATs scared the living crap out of me and I didn't apply. I have a Philosophy degree. My first job was as a bank teller making less than $10/hr. Then I got a job in the ordering department of a store making $12/hr. Now I am a logistics admin at a global corporation now making just under $40k. Yeah yeah yeah, if I majored in something else I could have been making $40k out of the gate (I actually had a test for a position with the state department of taxation scheduled for the morning after graduation, but I canceled it. IDIOT!!!), but I had reasons for my choices and I don't know if I would have done things differently.

OK, but take a step back from the emotional parts of the post and the defensiveness you feel because you think people are insulting you personally. I'm not insulting you and respect your decision to do whatever you want as long as it doesn't involve me, which clearly in this case it doesn't.

I'm simply saying that it will probably cost me $150k - $200k to send my kid to college. It's not unreasonable to consider the size of that investment when it comes to choosing a major. If he is in love with and wants to pursue a major that will most likely only enable him to get a job as a bank teller at $10 an hour, then it's just not a good idea to sink $150k - $200k into that degree, don't you think?

We will all have heard of anecdotes where a person with no degree has a job making six figures and a person with a STEM/tech degree can't even get a job, but let's be honest about the odds here. A STEM/tech degree gives you more options. That's all I'm saying and it's not a value judgment.

Make whatever choices you want with your own family, it's none of our business. But with my family, I want to choose how best to spend this incredibly large hunk of cash and four years of life. IMHO, this is an investment like any other and the greatest odds of success lie with STEM/tech or other highly marketable degree. If my kid wants to do something that doesn't require such a degree, I will love him and wish him the best, but it would be dumb to spend $200k on that.

This is my kid - I love him and will always think he's brilliant no matter what degree or career he chooses. If he wants to be an underwater basket weaver and can live within his means, I won't be critical of that - I'll be bragging about him. But I'm not sinking $200k into college for that.

I completely understand. We plan to do the whole 529/college savings route, so it won't impact us either way if our child(ren) want to pursue less lucrative degree options. They'll get what's in the account(s) and nothing more.

[Deleted]

Apr 24, 2012 11:16:31 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

My sister was a chemical engineering major. She did not work at Starbucks, because it wasn't invented yet. She did work in a fabric store. She hated engineering, hated her degree, but loved Chemistry. My father thought it was a waste of such an extraordinary brain to do anything but engineering, so he forced her into it. She went back and got a straight Chemistry BS and then worked in lab, which she loved.

My gynecologist has an undergrad in Chemical Engineering from Princeton and then got her MD at Columbia. I sincerely hope she didn't have to borrow for all of that.

[Deleted]

Ivys usually have a good portion of the student body going for free or damn near free.

[Sum Dum Gai]

OK sorry

It's all good, you were pretty close. The difference between modern American lit and creative writing would have only been a couple classes.

[thyme4change]

My gynecologist has an undergrad in Chemical Engineering

For some reason, these words together make me nervous. I don't want "chemicals" or "engineering" anywhere near my va-jay-jay.

[thyme4change]

Again - this is the post that is the top of the page? Oey Vei.

[Phoenix84]

"Lol. Bashing myself? I was bashing our teacher prep programs, which I've found to be woefully inefficient and much less rigorous than they should be... I coasted through teacher prep.."

Come on oped, we know you hate teachers Quit being a hater.