College Grads Un- Under- Employed

[Deleted]

Apr 26, 2012 14:05:04 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

I think an education is like anything else - you get out of it what you put into it. College isn't intrinsically one thing, especially nowadays. It's not good or bad, required or not required, enriching or useless.

Blasphemy!! We all know that up until college kids are all drooling morons who are barely competent at wiping their own butts. College turns them into well rounded, educated, people, that have job skills, and are a benefit to society. It doesn't matter whether they sleep through half their classes, cheat rampantly, load up on mickey mouse courses, fail miserably because they never had the academic chops to even be college material in the first place, or anything else.

No college = drooling moron
College = educated productive member of society.

There is no middle ground. Anyone who says differently is either lying, crazy, or an outlier that doesn't count.

but don't they only turn into well-rounded individuals if their parents don't pay for any part of college, especially any allowance?

[Firebird]

No college = drooling moron
College = educated productive member of society.

Well, I knew there had to be some reason I was better than you.

[Sum Dum Gai]

but don't they only turn into well-rounded individuals if their parents don't pay for any part of college, especially any allowance?

No, no, no. You're mixing up two different things. College determines whether or not they're a drooling moron. How it's paid for determines whether or not they're a spoiled brat with an entitlement attitude.

[formerroomate99]

You know, drooling idiots with college degrees kept me safe in round after round of layoffs at my old company. Some knew what I did, but absolutely nobody knew how I did it.

[swamp]

Apr 26, 2012 14:59:50 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

You know, drooling idiots with college degrees kept me safe in round after round of layoffs at my old company. Some knew what I did, but absolutely nobody knew how I did it.

Good thing you're irreplaceable.

[midjd]

To the left, to the left

[Deleted]

<<snort>>

[Miss Tequila]

Apr 26, 2012 14:59:50 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

You know, drooling idiots with college degrees kept me safe in round after round of layoffs at my old company.

Am I reading this right?? The only reason she was kept around during the layoffs was because teh drooling idiots in charge of layoffs were too stupid to make better choices?

[movingforward]

Apr 26, 2012 16:01:32 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Apr 26, 2012 14:59:50 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

You know, drooling idiots with college degrees kept me safe in round after round of layoffs at my old company.

Am I reading this right?? The only reason she was kept around during the layoffs was because teh drooling idiots in charge of layoffs were too stupid to make better choices?

No, I think she means Mickey and Minnie were too stupid to do her job; therefore, they had no choice but to keep her around.

[Rocky Mtn Saver]

Apr 26, 2012 16:29:38 GMT -5 @tbird said:

My mom used to work with a woman who was super secretive about everything so that when she was out sick, no one can find anything or figure out how to do it. She didn't file the rolodex (member those?) alphabetically, but by how she "thought" of things topically.....

Aren't you all required to keep procedures or protocols up to date for your stuff, so that if you were hit by a bus and in traction for a few months, the company would function?

At my previous employer, we started writing stuff down and cross-training in our small accounting department only after someone actually DID get hit by a truck on her way into work one day! She's okay now, but it was a big wake-up call for the company.

[movingforward]

Apr 26, 2012 16:29:38 GMT -5 @tbird said:

My mom used to work with a woman who was super secretive about everything so that when she was out sick, no one can find anything or figure out how to do it. She didn't file the rolodex (member those?) alphabetically, but by how she "thought" of things topically.....

Aren't you all required to keep procedures or protocols up to date for your stuff, so that if you were hit by a bus and in traction for a few months, the company would function?

I used to work with someone like that. She didn't want anyone to know aspects of the database she worked on or anything she did on a daily basis. I guess she thought this made her irreplacable or something. At one point her mother had a stroke and she had to end up being out of the office for almost a month. We had to play around in the database and figure out how she ran reports, etc. It took a couple of days but myself and another employee worked on it and figured it out. Nothing she did was all that hard. Upon her return she thought we were going to say we were completely lost without her and she seemed shocked when we said we got everything caught up for her. In most cases I find that people think their job is a whole lot more important than it actually is... well, maybe they actually know it isn't that important and that is why they don't want anyone to learn it...

[thyme4change]

I worked with a guy who was big on P&P's when I was pregnant with my first kid. I documented everything, and left really clear instructions. I was surprised (pleasantly) with how far behind my desk got without me in it. I thought a 6-week break would prove me very replaceable.

[Rocky Mtn Saver]

Secretive behavior like this is also one of the things companies are counseled to look for to find fraud, theft, and other badness with the company dime.

[Deleted]

Apr 26, 2012 14:05:38 GMT -5 swamp said:

College is wasted on the young. I would love to go back to learn for the sake of learning. I enjoyed it when I was a drunk college student, I'd probably enjoy it even more now.

That's part of my retirement plan- studying things that are interesting but totally unmarketable just for fun! DH and I were watching a video lectuire on European Art from The Teaching Company last night and I said I can see why some people major in Art History. I'm still gald I didn't, though.

[thyme4change]

That's part of my retirement plan- studying things that are interesting but totally unmarketable just for fun!

My father took a class at the community college when he retired. It was something that he wanted to learn for fun. My dad is a very smart, educated, hardworking executive type, but for some reason was nervous about the class. His teacher told him he could take it pass/fail, and my father was debating it. So, I'm like "Hey Dad, why are you worried about your GPA? Does heaven check transcripts now?" So, he took it for a grade, and the first test, he aced it and ruined the curve.

He hasn't taken another class. I'm thinking it was easier than he thought it would be, therefore not as fun for him.

[movingforward]

Apr 26, 2012 16:44:13 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Apr 26, 2012 14:05:38 GMT -5 swamp said:

College is wasted on the young. I would love to go back to learn for the sake of learning. I enjoyed it when I was a drunk college student, I'd probably enjoy it even more now.

That's part of my retirement plan- studying things that are interesting but totally unmarketable just for fun! DH and I were watching a video lectuire on European Art from The Teaching Company last night and I said I can see why some people major in Art History. I'm still gald I didn't, though.

Yeah, I would be a professional student if I could make a living that way. People think I am crazy...

[Opti]

Apr 26, 2012 8:24:38 GMT -5 973beachbum said:

Opt can you figure out what all the dashes mean in the Georgetown link. the page with engineers has over a third of the spots with a - instead of a number but it doesn't say way.

Just as a side note, no wonder all the young graduates I talk to are pissed off. If they are reading that a new civil grad will make $50K a year they must have had a rude awakening.

Where did they even get these numbers? It isn't even close to what is being paid right now. Page 12 of
www9.georgetown.edu/grad/gppi/hpi/cew/pdfs/Unemployment.Final.update1.pdf

Beach, is the link you posted related to Milee's link? I'm too tired to look at yours now, but the dashes exist in Milee's link salary numbers. I didn't find an explanation, but given they combined the 2009 and 2010 surveys to get an adequate sample size my guess is in that survey the dashes mean they didn't have their bare minimum amount for an adequate sample size so they didn't provide the numbers. I would have preferred they had given them and given the size of the sample or something.

Yes I think the survey makes it appear things are WAY better than they really are in certain disciplines. As you know I volunteer with the Professional Service Group of Central New Jersey and have done so off and on over a two year span. I have met many unemployed professionals and seen lots of things I didn't expect. I was even told when I went in to keep my claim open and report my hours worked at $10/hr.(hello section 8 ) that people my age, low 50s, are giving up on finding work. Honestly I don't know how that works if you are single because the safety net is damn thin for us and many things are based on the federal poverty level which really screws us over since Conneticut and New Jersey are the two highest cost of living states overall. (We are number one, we are number one... )

I guess I should have filled out that stupid survey and reported my paltry wages. I bet many of these surveys are self reports and many tech professionals lie upwards because they don't want to admit even in a survey they are getting paid shit wages. Oh well. We both know its much worse than these surveys appear which is why I'm personally angry with Obama pushing STEM education so a significant portion of STEM folk can parallel major league sports careers without the earnings to match. Milee's link did confirm something for me though. Support roles especially UNIX admin always suffer in downturns and the new product development positions take a lesser hit although that also really depends on whether that particular specialty prefers American talent or they outsource wholesale and go for H1B Visas.

[Sum Dum Gai]

Yeah, I would be a professional student if I could make a living that way. People think I am crazy...

My mom says the exact same thing. I've never understood it. Maybe if you were talking about just taking the class but not worrying about a grade. I've had classes that I really enjoyed. The lectures are cool, the labs are fun, but sitting down to write papers for a grade... blech.

[thyme4change]

Student would be low on my list of chosen professions. Even if the pay was decent.

[Opti]

Apr 26, 2012 16:48:47 GMT -5 movingforward said:

Apr 26, 2012 16:44:13 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

That's part of my retirement plan- studying things that are interesting but totally unmarketable just for fun! DH and I were watching a video lectuire on European Art from The Teaching Company last night and I said I can see why some people major in Art History. I'm still gald I didn't, though.

Yeah, I would be a professional student if I could make a living that way. People think I am crazy...

My high school guidance counselor actually recommended I do that.
I remember asking how in the heck someone could do that and make a living but I don't think I got a definitive answer. I still would love to find a think tank that is a good match for me. Perhaps that might be close.

[Firebird]

That's part of my retirement plan- studying things that are interesting but totally unmarketable just for fun!

Now I'm having a flashback to Frasier and Niles taking a basic car maintenance class and passing notes in French in the back

[Firebird]

Maybe if you were talking about just taking the class but not worrying about a grade. I've had classes that I really enjoyed. The lectures are cool, the labs are fun, but sitting down to write papers for a grade... blech.

I agree and disagree. The classes I've had that I truly enjoyed (and we are literally talking about like .05% of all classes I've ever taken, at most) were also the ones I didn't mind studying and writing papers for - I just liked to learn about the subject, as much as possible. And writing about it (when I might not have done so if I were just learning on my own) was a good way for me to organize my thoughts and develop informed opinions on parts of the topic.

But I agree it's much better if you don't care about the grade. Plus, when you're invested in a class like that, the grade pretty much takes care of itself.

If I'd had more classes like that, I probably wouldn't have minded school so much. But they were such an aggregate minority that I didn't even really count them as part of my formal education as much as a lucky chance.

[Sum Dum Gai]

And writing about it (when I might not have done so if I were just learning on my own) was a good way for me to organize my thoughts and develop informed opinions on parts of the topic.

*shrug*

Whatever works. I personally will take dissecting a shark over writing a paper about its anatomy every time.

[Firebird]

I was talking more about debate/English type classes where your papers discuss issues and ideas. I hate papers where you just have to regurgitate what's written in the textbook too.

[Sum Dum Gai]

I was talking more about debate/English type classes where your papers discuss issues and ideas.

Debate and discuss rules! Write a paper... not so much. I'll take the quiz please. Multiple choice, short answer, or graded hands on demonstration.

[Sum Dum Gai]

hands on demo of what?

Depends on the class. One of my first programming classes did a hands on final. We were each given a piece of paper outlining what our program was supposed to do, and one hour to make it happen. When time was up if your program worked you passed, and if it didn't you failed.

[Firebird]

I actually had a class once where we wrote papers and then split into groups to defend our ideas, probably vaguely similar in process to defending a masters' thesis. So it was a combo - you get to write and you get to debate about what you wrote. I loved that class. We learned to ask and answer great questions, which is IMO an underrated skill.

[midjd]

My mom says the exact same thing. I've never understood it. Maybe if you were talking about just taking the class but not worrying about a grade. I've had classes that I really enjoyed. The lectures are cool, the labs are fun, but sitting down to write papers for a grade... blech.

Yeah, same here. Don't get me wrong, I love writing, but I don't think I could ever go back to having to come home from work/class and write a 15-page paper on a subject I care nothing about, in APA format and with at least 10 sources...

I found the working world a pleasant surprise. More fun than school, no homework, and you get paid! And ironically, as many years as I spent messing with font sizes/margins to try to reach an arbitrary minimum page limit, today I spend most of my time cutting memos/reports/emails down to be as short as possible, because no one has the attention span to read more than 2 pages

[formerexpat]

Yeah, I would be a professional student if I could make a living that way. People think I am crazy...

I don't think you're crazy but most professional students I know are detached from the reality of life. They can't relate to real life too well; they have the ivory tower thinking problem. Things just don't work in real life the way they're taught in a text book.

That's why I would be horrible as a professional student. I'm too interested in the actual application of things learned in the text book and how it really works in real life.

[Firebird]

I spend most of my time cutting memos/reports/emails down to be as short as possible, because no one has the attention span to read more than 2 pages

This is such a great point. One of my profs in college had us write pages with word LIMITS. Usually between 1k and 3k words (which isn't so easy to respect when explaining how a marketing theory applies to a complex case study). You went over the limit (even by two words) you automatically failed the paper no matter how good it was.

You wouldn't believe how much people bitched about this after years of trying to fluff up their papers so they would be LONG enough. He was trying to teach us how to be concise. To this day, I will work and rework my emails as much as I need to until they fit in my email screen without me having to scroll.