College Grads Un- Under- Employed

[Opti]

I found this at the end of the article from Milee's link and feel it is important per the salary ranges given.

Methodology
Data from the American Community Survey for the years 2009 and 2010 were pooled to provide a larger sample size for the estimates. The unemployment rates were then computed for each of the three
groups by dividing the total unemployed with the total employed and unemployed. The earnings used are median earnings in 2010 dollars rounded to the nearest $1,000. The three groups are: recent college
graduates (those between ages 22 and 26 with bachelor degrees), experienced college graduates (those between ages 30 and 54), and graduate degree holders (those with master’s degrees or higher and are between 30 and 54). Median earnings are based on those who worked more than 35 hours a week and at least 50 weeks a year. All calculations use the survey weights provided by the Census Bureau.

In a nutshell, the salary figures are skewed and incomplete.
1) Any worker in a reduced hours environment is not counted in the salary sample which makes the salaries look higher than reality. In a normal employment environment this is probably a good cheat to insure comparing only FT salaries to FT. In 2009,2010 it makes certain disciplines and salaries look better than what really exists.

2) Missing age groups. Apparently 27-29 years old don't count in any category along with anyone 55 or older still working. If you get a graduate degree before 30 you don't count either per this survey. That artificially inflates all categories when looking at MS,PhD salaries by dropping out the 24-29 crowd plus those who get their graduate degrees quickly and are even younger. It probably also ignores the ageism unemployment factor of older workers by not counting them at all.

FYI, I spoke to a NJ Dept of Labor employee yesterday who finally gets to return to part time work after being furloughed in August 2011. He shared with me he had informational meetings with several hiring managers he knew and his last question to them was would you hire me if there were 3 or 4 other candidates and they were all younger than me? Not one said yes. He is in his 60s.

[lurkyloo]

Apr 25, 2012 14:16:03 GMT -5 swamp said:

Interesting. There were no science majors in my advanced history classes. Science and math majors were in things like American History 101 and English 101. In fact, I believe our advanced classes in certain majors were reserved for majors of that particular field. In other words, majors got first dibs on the seats available

Good point. I don't remember any Chemistry majors taking upper level French Literature classes with me.

That's because the chemistry majors all learn German as their language.

Science double major here...having placed out of the language requirement I took multiple German lit classes as well as a junior-level Shakespeare class for fun. I will however admit to being thoroughly annoyed with my sociology and philosophy distribution requirements. Actually I have a theory that intro classes in any subject absolutely suck because neither the professor nor most of the students has any real interest in the material--the professor is rolling his/her eyes at the simplified subject matter and the cut-throat pre-meds while most of the students are there because they're filling a requirement. It's not until you get up to the majors-only levels that things get interesting.

ETA: Placed out of the language requirement, but apparently not the spellcheck requirement

[Works4me]

Zib - step dau needs to realize she will be competing with people who worked while going to school. All else being equal, that is an advantage when being hired.

[Deleted]

Apr 25, 2012 18:47:40 GMT -5 Firebird said:

I disagree. I do not have a college degree and yet I still posses logic skills, an ability to converse intelligently on numerous topics and have been exposed to well educated people without it.

No, no, beer, you don't understand. You have to go to college before you learn how to do those things. If you haven't gone to college, then you don't know how to do them, you just think you do

It must be that I am soooo smart that I got it all in during the 2 years that I did attend!

[Deleted]

Apr 25, 2012 23:47:47 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

Actually I have a theory that intro classes in any subject absolutely suck because neither the professor nor most of the students has any real interest in the material--the professor is rolling his/her eyes at the simplified subject matter and the cut-throat pre-meds while most of the students are there because they're filling a requirement. It's not until you get up to the majors-only levels that things get interesting.

Not always. It really depends on the professor. One easy A I got was the Music Appreciation class and it was so popular it was held in an auditorium. The prof loved music- everything from Mozart to Ray Charles- and it showed. He brought in students to perform various pieces and deliberately included the occasional funny (but wrong) choices in his multiple-choice exams. I like to think that he raised the interest in music among a lot of techies, jocks and other non-musicians, which is good for the music business in general. I ended up acquiring a whole lot of chamber music, once I knew what composers to look for. I know an actuary who had a double major in Math and Geography because she'd gotten hooked on Geography in her intro-level class.

It helps if the prof wants to teach and the student wants to learn.

[workpublic]

www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/02/long-term-unemployment-college-graduates_n_1250418.html

College graduates and advanced degree holders, once they are unemployed, are as vulnerable as high school dropouts to long-term joblessness, a new study has found.

Thirty five percent of unemployed college graduates and those with advanced degrees have been without a job for more than a year, the same rate as unemployed high school dropouts, according to a Pew Fiscal Analysis Initiative study published Wednesday. In fact, the long-term unemployment rate, for those 25 and older without a job, is nearly the same across all levels of educational attainment, the report says.

www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t04.htm

Table A-4. Employment status of the civilian population 25 years and over by educational attainment

[Deleted]

I don't remember taking any fluff classes (well I guess they were all fluff since I have a "garbage" BA). I parlayed my electives into a minor (political science) and certificate (criminology - what? I wanted to go into criminal justice/law enforcement!). I loved Abnormal Psychology, but it left me thinking that I had one or more psychological disorders.

[Rocky Mtn Saver]

Apr 26, 2012 8:04:28 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Apr 25, 2012 23:47:47 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

Actually I have a theory that intro classes in any subject absolutely suck because neither the professor nor most of the students has any real interest in the material--the professor is rolling his/her eyes at the simplified subject matter and the cut-throat pre-meds while most of the students are there because they're filling a requirement. It's not until you get up to the majors-only levels that things get interesting.

Not always. It really depends on the professor. One easy A I got was the Music Appreciation class and it was so popular it was held in an auditorium. The prof loved music- everything from Mozart to Ray Charles- and it showed. He brought in students to perform various pieces and deliberately included the occasional funny (but wrong) choices in his multiple-choice exams. I like to think that he raised the interest in music among a lot of techies, jocks and other non-musicians, which is good for the music business in general. I ended up acquiring a whole lot of chamber music, once I knew what composers to look for. I know an actuary who had a double major in Math and Geography because she'd gotten hooked on Geography in her intro-level class.

It helps if the prof wants to teach and the student wants to learn.

I've had some really lousy Intro classes. Intro to Business was the worst. Instructor just lectured from the book and no one was particularly interested in the broad-based subject matter. But I had an Intro to Communication class years ago (I don't recall the exact title, but similar) that was one of the best classes I ever took. The instructor didn't lecture from anything in the book, but held long conversations instead about the theories and practice of communicating well in our modern world. I still use some of the things he taught about communicating ideas and intentions.

[973beachbum]

Opt can you figure out what all the dashes mean in the Georgetown link. the page with engineers has over a third of the spots with a - instead of a number but it doesn't say way.

Just as a side note, no wonder all the young graduates I talk to are pissed off. If they are reading that a new civil grad will make $50K a year they must have had a rude awakening.

Where did they even get these numbers? It isn't even close to what is being paid right now. Page 12 of
www9.georgetown.edu/grad/gppi/hpi/cew/pdfs/Unemployment.Final.update1.pdf

[zibazinski]

I told DF that. She has a great job, that others would kill for, and they will even pay for her to go to school. What's wrong with Georgetown? She wants to be in Chicago and go to Northwestern. She makes me ill with her princess attitude and never grateful for anything. She got a 7500 raise and a 4500 bonus to add to her 55k salary but DF still pays half her rent and her cell phone bill.

[lurkyloo]

I'll allow for exceptions to the rule--or maybe it's just the intro science classes. I did have econ with a guy who was supposed to be a fabulous teacher and found it just sorta OK.

[findingdeadbeats]

I have to take an Intro to Computer Science class this summer. It's a 3 unit GE online class and teaches - wait for it - how to search the internet and what the internet is. We also will be learning how to use MS Word. (On the 2007 version, none the less....)

This semester I had to take a GE health class. It was 3 units, 1/2 of a semester, online class that the only "work" in the class was to read and answer about 3 questions each week. I spent no more than 10 hours total of my time on the class and got an A. (I suggested to the college administrator that he anonymously audit that class and see if he thinks it qualifies for college credit and the associated costs to the students who take it.)

Part of what angers me about the high costs of a degree is that so far I have seen a lot of the above. Lots of online classes with little work or any real learning happening... And, for that, today's youth will be in debt for a very long time.

[formerroomate99]

I also take offense to what someone said early about science and math majors having the only real rounded education (although I've been around here long enough to know I shouldn't be THAT offended). Its utter BS.

Just to be clear, I said that the only people coming out of the institutions I ATTENDED and those like them were the science majors. The science majors were expected to take many more humanites classes than the math/science requirement for the humanities majors, and there were enought Mickey Mouse math and science classes that the humanites majors never had to set foot in a math or science class that a math/science major would take. Now I have heard of the opposite happening in other schools, were they offer a vast array of mickey mouse humanites classes for the math/science majors. Either way, it isn't the right way to approach education IMHO. And education is supposed to make you well rounded.

[Rocky Mtn Saver]

Apr 26, 2012 11:04:21 GMT -5 @findingdeadbeats said:

I have to take an Intro to Computer Science class this summer. It's a 3 unit GE online class and teaches - wait for it - how to search the internet and what the internet is. We also will be learning how to use MS Word. (On the 2007 version, none the less....)

This semester I had to take a GE health class. It was 3 units, 1/2 of a semester, online class that the only "work" in the class was to read and answer about 3 questions each week. I spent no more than 10 hours total of my time on the class and got an A. (I suggested to the college administrator that he anonymously audit that class and see if he thinks it qualifies for college credit and the associated costs to the students who take it.)

Part of what angers me about the high costs of a degree is that so far I have seen a lot of the above. Lots of online classes with little work or any real learning happening... And, for that, today's youth will be in debt for a very long time.

I had one online class like you mentioned above, very on-your-own, not much actual work due and graded. However, that being said, I was warned and have also found out myself that often the online classes here can have MORE homework and projects than on-campus classes because that's how the instructors ensure that you are putting in "face time" weekly because they have no set class time to gauge participation.

[formerroomate99]

Part of what angers me about the high costs of a degree is that so far I have seen a lot of the above. Lots of online classes with little work or any real learning happening... And, for that, today's youth will be in debt for a very long time.

This is also a big part of the reason that jobs are requiring higher level degrees. If you spend the first 2-3 years of college being taught stuff you should have mastered in K-12, then that doesn't leave much time to learn what you need for the job. It is a win-win for the colleges. They don't have to deal with student complaints that the courses are too hard and colleges get larger numbers of students paying graduate school tuition to learn stuff that used to be taught at the undergraduate level.

[Deleted]

The concept of being "well-rounded" is subjective, so I'm sure lots of people think they're well-rounded when they're probably not according to someone else.

[Deleted]

Apr 26, 2012 11:09:29 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

....I'm sure lots of people think they're well-rounded when they're probably not according to someone else.

I. WILL. CUT. YOU.


ETA: and

[zibazinski]

Well rounded shouldn't just apply to academics.

[Firebird]

Well rounded shouldn't just apply to academics.

Amen.

[Deleted]

Apr 26, 2012 11:10:39 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Well rounded shouldn't just apply to academics.

I never said it should.


LMAO, Beer!

[steph08]

I went to a small, private college. Every student, whether a math/science/English/history/whatever major, had to fulfill the same requirements. That included six credits (a 100-level and a 200-level) in each FISHN area as well as 2 cultural analysis classes. FISHN stood for Fine Arts, International, Social Sciences, History, and Natural Sciences. We didn't have "Mickey Mouse math" or whatever, we had regular classes and everyone had to take them. My degree is in English, but for my Natural Sciences, I took Calculus and Probability and Statistics. Others took Chemistry or Biology or whatever, but we all had to meet FISHN requirements to graduate. In addition, you fulfilled all the classes in your own major. If you still needed credits to make it to the 120 total needed for graduation, you took whatever you wanted, but there were no "dumbed down" classes to take.

Everybody is expected and required to take the same thing outside of their major. Science majors did not have to take more humanities classes than the Humanities majors had to take science classes, etc.

[thyme4change]

The concept of being "well-rounded" is subjective, so I'm sure lots of people think they're well-rounded when they're probably not according to someone else.

I'm pretty sure I'm not considered well rounded by anyone. Unless watching Modern Family AND[/i] The Amazing Race is considered "well-rounded."

[thyme4change]

Calculus is a natural science?

[steph08]

Apr 26, 2012 13:37:02 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Calculus is a natural science?

Oh, I lied. Everyone also had to take QS and QM courses - quantitative methods and quantitative statistics. That is what I took those for, though they might have cross-counted as my natural sciences, not sure why they are labeled as such though.

[Firebird]

But a good education will take what you have and deepen and broaden it.

I think an education is like anything else - you get out of it what you put into it. College isn't intrinsically one thing, especially nowadays. It's not good or bad, required or not required, enriching or useless.

[Sum Dum Gai]

I think an education is like anything else - you get out of it what you put into it. College isn't intrinsically one thing, especially nowadays. It's not good or bad, required or not required, enriching or useless.

Blasphemy!! We all know that up until college kids are all drooling morons who are barely competent at wiping their own butts. College turns them into well rounded, educated, people, that have job skills, and are a benefit to society. It doesn't matter whether they sleep through half their classes, cheat rampantly, load up on mickey mouse courses, fail miserably because they never had the academic chops to even be college material in the first place, or anything else.

No college = drooling moron
College = educated productive member of society.

There is no middle ground. Anyone who says differently is either lying, crazy, or an outlier that doesn't count.

[swamp]

College is wasted on the young. I would love to go back to learn for the sake of learning. I enjoyed it when I was a drunk college student, I'd probably enjoy it even more now.

[swamp]

Apr 26, 2012 14:05:04 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

I think an education is like anything else - you get out of it what you put into it. College isn't intrinsically one thing, especially nowadays. It's not good or bad, required or not required, enriching or useless.

Blasphemy!! We all know that up until college kids are all drooling morons who are barely competent at wiping their own butts. College turns them into well rounded, educated, people, that have job skills, and are a benefit to society. It doesn't matter whether they sleep through half their classes, cheat rampantly, load up on mickey mouse courses, fail miserably because they never had the academic chops to even be college material in the first place, or anything else.

No college = drooling moron
College = educated productive member of society.

There is no middle ground. Anyone who says differently is either lying, crazy, or an outlier that doesn't count.

Huh, Dark is a drooling moron. Good to know.

[Deleted]

No college = drooling moron
non-STEM college degree = waste of sperm
STEM college degree = educated productive member of society.

fixed for accuracy.

[Sum Dum Gai]

Damn straight, and I wear the title proudly!