Big wedding when you're already married

[Angel!]

Apr 23, 2012 14:57:34 GMT -5 oped said:

"if you needed other people to know it was your real wedding, then my solution would have been to invite them to your elopement or whenever you did the legal ceremony."

You aren't hearing her... that was not her 'real' wedding. That was necessary paperwork to secure benefits. Her real wedding was when she stood up in front of family and friends and repeated vows ... etc.

Thank you.

There was nothing to invite anyone to. We just sat in the living room & signed the certificate. I can't even recall if we ate anything special for dinner that night. It was something I did for the govt's sake, not for any emotional reasons or to change our relationship. What you would call my fake wedding was my real wedding to me.

If they consider their religious wedding the genesis of their marriage, fine, but legally their marriage has already begun and I wasn't there to see it.

And right there is exactly why we didn't tell people. Because some people would be hurt that I didn't invite them to my "real" wedding, in their eyes. And then I would be hurt because they don't consider my real wedding to have any special significance.

Why is it so important to be honest when everyone is going to have hurt feelings in the end? IMO, some things are better kept secrets.

[hoops902]

Apr 23, 2012 15:06:15 GMT -5 oped said:

So glad I don't believe in wedding ceremonies and didn't invite anoyone but parents to the JP... too many people thinking they can tell you exactly what is real and true about how you decide to celebrate your own union... is there such as thing as a Guestzilla ??

You can celebrate your own union however you like, but lying to your guests in order to manipulate them into doing what you want isn't ok.

[Deleted]

The things we argue about on YM.................

[Firebird]

You aren't hearing her... that was not her 'real' wedding. That was necessary paperwork to secure benefits. Her real wedding was when she stood up in front of family and friends and repeated vows ... etc.

But she acknowledges that to many of her family and friends, the legal piece of paper day was indeed her "real" wedding day. I think people deserve to know what they are attending. If it's a religious ceremony and the start of your true marriage in your mind, fine, then there should be no problem with telling people that.

If they don't want to attend your wedding just because it's not the official legal start to your marriage, that's THEIR problem. Obviously they're not very good friends if they don't want to celebrate just because it's not the legal beginning of your marriage. But they have a right to know.

[Deleted]

Apr 23, 2012 15:05:53 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

It should be treated as more of a legal interaction - which it is, but it doesn't feel that way. It feels like a romantic Disney princess story - which, marriage is not.

Honestly, right.... to me its generally the big shebang people choose to have that seem fake to me... but hey, its their day, not mine... their relationship, not mine... how they want to define it, and celebrate it is theirs to decide, not mine...

[Angel!]

Apr 23, 2012 15:07:59 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Apr 23, 2012 15:06:15 GMT -5 oped said:

So glad I don't believe in wedding ceremonies and didn't invite anoyone but parents to the JP... too many people thinking they can tell you exactly what is real and true about how you decide to celebrate your own union... is there such as thing as a Guestzilla ??

You can celebrate your own union however you like, but lying to your guests in order to manipulate them into doing what you want isn't ok.

The truth is in the eye of the beholder. To me I wouldn't be lying, I would be inviting people to my wedding & the start of my marriage.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Why is it so important to be honest when everyone is going to have hurt feelings in the end? IMO, some things are better kept secrets.

In the case of the OP's couple it sounds like they are telling everyone BUT their parents. I can't see how that is anything more than trying to have their cake and eat it too.

Because if you wanted to spare people you wouldn't tell everyone and increase the chances that someone is going to blab to your parents.

In general I don't care what people do it is none of my bee's wax how people go about being married.

I just think the couple in the OP are being childlish. Either take your chances your parents will yank the money and get married when YOU want to or be good little children and do as they say.

[thyme4change]

1) Didn't anyone see the Office where Jim and Pam got married and they ran over to the boat and got married before the wedding because their families were so crazy, so they just wanted to have something that was all theirs.

2) If my kids get married before the wedding, I hope to hell they don't tell me. Just lie to me and let me be part of the grand celebrations. I love weddings. And your legal status isn't my business, even if you are my kids. Don't tell me that I wasn't important enough to have there.

[Deleted]

Is the 'real daddy' ... the one who shows up first too ?? If they get divorced and then re-married... is that one 'real' ??

[weltschmerz]

I said twice that I was deliberately NOT referring to gays who are legally unable to marry - just people who are legally able to marry and choose not to.
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So, if it's OK for two men or two women, why is it not OK for a man and a woman? It's a choice (your words), and you should respect that.

[Firebird]

Your real wedding is when you get married, that's the definition of what a wedding is. They were married after that first "event". Making up your own definitions of things in order to justify lying to people doesn't make it any less of a lie.

Exactly (and I'd echo Mid's stance - I'm not talking about people who are legally UNABLE to get married, just those who legally can and choose not to do so).

You want to be there to witness the consumation as well?
Seems like much ado about nothing.

Not sure where you're getting that from at all. I've said a million times that I would still come to the ceremony, I would still celebrate with them as if it were their first wedding, I would still give a gift, blah blah blah. But I would not like being deceived about it. That's all.

So glad I don't believe in wedding ceremonies and didn't invite anoyone but parents to the JP... too many people thinking they can tell you exactly what is real and true about how you decide to celebrate your own union... is there such as thing as a Guestzilla ??

Again, how am I telling anyone exactly what is real and true about how to celebrate their union? Just because I want to know whether what I'm attending is their actual wedding or not, that makes me Guestzilla?

[Angel!]

Apr 23, 2012 15:08:52 GMT -5 Firebird said:

You aren't hearing her... that was not her 'real' wedding. That was necessary paperwork to secure benefits. Her real wedding was when she stood up in front of family and friends and repeated vows ... etc.

But she acknowledges that to many of her family and friends, the legal piece of paper day was indeed her "real" wedding day.

I actually have no idea how they would have felt about it. I didn't tell them because it wasn't important to me.

But they have a right to know.

Why? Why do they need to know when I signed the marriage license? Why do they need to be involved in the legal aspects of my marriage? What business is it of theirs what govt. documents I have signed?

I just don't get how I am required to tell you something that I consider unimportant to me & that will affect our overall relationship poorly.

[Firebird]

And right there is exactly why we didn't tell people. Because some people would be hurt that I didn't invite them to my "real" wedding, in their eyes. And then I would be hurt because they don't consider my real wedding to have any special significance.

Again, then, why not invite people to your legal wedding? That way you don't have to lie, and you can still have your celebration with everyone around.

Also, there is no way that you would KNOW how I felt, if I were your guest. I wouldn't say anything about it either way unless you were a very close friend and maybe not even then. So basically you're projecting your own feelings onto your guests. You're assuming they will feel like your wedding is a fake when plenty - maybe more than you'd think - would see the religious ceremony exactly the way you did.

[justme]

1) Didn't anyone see the Office where Jim and Pam got married and they ran over to the boat and got married before the wedding because their families were so crazy, so they just wanted to have something that was all theirs.

Psh, that was the same day. It so counts as one since it's less than 24 hours apart.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Just because I want to know whether what I'm attending is their actual wedding or not, that makes me Guestzilla?

Yes.

However it is perfectly acceptable to inform the couple that since they spent more than $20 on a license, clearly they do not understand or appreciate the true meaning of marriage.

[weltschmerz]

If they don't want to attend your wedding just because it's not the official legal start to your marriage, that's THEIR problem. Obviously they're not very good friends if they don't want to celebrate just because it's not the legal beginning of your marriage. But they have a right to know.
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No, they don't have such a right. Do they have the right to know if there's a little bun in the oven, as well?
Just go, celebrate with them, be happy with them, drink, do the chicken dance and stop griping about your "rights."

[Angel!]

Apr 23, 2012 15:10:01 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Why is it so important to be honest when everyone is going to have hurt feelings in the end? IMO, some things are better kept secrets.

In the case of the OP's couple it sounds like they are telling everyone BUT their parents. I can't see how that is anything more than trying to have their cake and eat it too.

Well, yeah they are idiots. If you are going to have a secret, then learn how to keep a freaking secret.

This is exactly the reason that most secrets get out. If you ever kill a man, then keep your mouth shut & never tell anyone.

[midjd]

So, if it's OK for two men or two women, why is it not OK for a man and a woman? It's a choice (your words), and you should respect that.

You don't see that there's a difference between two people who CAN get married but choose not to, and two people who are legally unable to marry each other?

All I said was that I have a problem with people who want to legitimize their relationship in the eyes of society, by pretending to be H and W, while retaining the benefits of not being married (in one acquaintance's case, she doesn't want to marry because she'll lose her government aid). Sort of the opposite side of the coin of marrying in secret and later having a big ceremony.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

If you are going to have a secret, then learn how to keep a freaking secret

Maybe they are thinking if someone else blabs their parents will shoot the messenger instead of them.

[Angel!]

Apr 23, 2012 15:14:21 GMT -5 Firebird said:

And right there is exactly why we didn't tell people. Because some people would be hurt that I didn't invite them to my "real" wedding, in their eyes. And then I would be hurt because they don't consider my real wedding to have any special significance.

Again, then, why not invite people to your legal wedding? That way you don't have to lie, and you can still have your celebration with everyone around.

Because it was something private. Should I throw a party when I fill out my taxes too? It was something unimportant to me & something I didn't want to celebrate. Why would I invite others to that?

Also, there is no way that you would KNOW how I felt, if I were your guest. I wouldn't say anything about it either way unless you were a very close friend and maybe not even then. So basically you're projecting your own feelings onto your guests. You're assuming they will feel like your wedding is a fake when plenty - maybe more than you'd think - would see the religious ceremony exactly the way you did.

I don't know how they would feel. But, why bother to even have the conversation. To me it is unimportant that I am already legally married & I will never know if it was important to you because you will never know.

If it was unimportant to you, then you wouldn't give a crap if I told you & if it was important to you, now we have hurt feelings all around. Nothing to be gained by telling people we signed the papers already.

[Works4me]

Angel D - just curious, how do you explain your children?

[thyme4change]

Again, then, why not invite people to your legal wedding?

From now on, no babyshowers. People can only come to the actual birth. Bring cameras - my snatch isn't open to the public but a few times!

[imawino]

Apr 23, 2012 15:08:52 GMT -5 Firebird said:

You aren't hearing her... that was not her 'real' wedding. That was necessary paperwork to secure benefits. Her real wedding was when she stood up in front of family and friends and repeated vows ... etc.

But she acknowledges that to many of her family and friends, the legal piece of paper day was indeed her "real" wedding day. I think people deserve to know what they are attending. If it's a religious ceremony and the start of your true marriage in your mind, fine, then there should be no problem with telling people that.

If they don't want to attend your wedding just because it's not the official legal start to your marriage, that's THEIR problem. Obviously they're not very good friends if they don't want to celebrate just because it's not the legal beginning of your marriage. But they have a right to know.

I don't believe that your wedding guests have a "right to know" anything. The wedding is about the two people participating in the ceremony and what is important to THEM. And if having a certain kind of wedding celebration is important to them, and they don't want to run the risk of having that day ruined by guests who feel they have a right to judge their wedding as "fake" and "pretend" then so be it.

[Deleted]

FB, and Angel, how would you feel if you were guests at the wedding I mentioned earlier, where the couple didn't actually do the legal thing until several months later? A lot of people traveled from other states to see them get married, and never knew that what they saw that day wasn't an *official* wedding. It wasn't held in a church, if that matters.

[swamp]

Apr 23, 2012 15:26:15 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Again, then, why not invite people to your legal wedding?

From now on, no babyshowers. People can only come to the actual birth. Bring cameras - my snatch isn't open to the public but a few times!

I had c-sections. Beware of the flying blood.

[Angel!]

I think some of these views probably differ by location. I learned that where I lived in TX most of the people that called themselves married were not legally married. It was weird to me & somewhat of a culture shock. But, now that I have been exposed to that life I don't really give a crap about marital status or anything else. If you introduce me to your husband, then I am not going to ask about your legal marital status.

That could be why I am more on the side of "who gives a crap", because I lived in an area where these "marriages" were very common.

[hoops902]

"Because it was something private. Should I throw a party when I fill out my taxes too? It was something unimportant to me & something I didn't want to celebrate. Why would I invite others to that?"

No one is telling you that you HAVE to celebrate it. What they're saying is that if you choose not to celebrate it when it happens, that doesn't give you the right to lie to people later because you've decided that NOW you feel like celebrating it as if it's happening at that moment.

[Firebird]

No, they don't have such a right. Do they have the right to know if there's a little bun in the oven, as well?
Just go, celebrate with them, be happy with them, drink, do the chicken dance and stop griping about your "rights."

I think you're reacting strongly to that particular word for some reason, but when I say they have a right to know what they're attending, I mean exactly that. They have a right to know if they're attending a wedding or something that looks and sounds and feels like a wedding, but is not.

Let me ask you, how would you feel about attending a "wedding" ceremony if the couple NEVER planned to get legally married? They just wanted to have a big party with their family and friends and they didn't think that people would come if they didn't think it was a wedding, so they let everyone think they were getting married and never actually got legally hitched? (Assuming this was possible, and again, not talking about a gay couple doing this - I'm talking about a straight couple that COULD legally marry but didn't want to do so for whatever reason.)

They basically just wanted their friends and family to treat them as married so they had a nice ceremony about it. But they never actually got married. Some people wouldn't care about that, and that's fine. I would.

[Angel!]

Apr 23, 2012 15:26:25 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

FB, and Angel, how would you feel if you were guests at the wedding I mentioned earlier, where the couple didn't actually do the legal thing until several months later? A lot of people traveled from other states to see them get married, and never knew that what they saw that day wasn't an *official* wedding. It wasn't held in a church, if that matters.

I wouldn't care. To me the religious/spiritual commitment is what is celebrated with the ceremony. The legal status is a completely different issue (IMO). So what they want to do legally is their own business.

[imawino]

Apr 23, 2012 15:26:15 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Bring cameras - my snatch isn't open to the public but a few times!

That's not what I heard.